My notes on the DVC focus group I went to (kinda long and probably boring, but...)

[Deb & Bill]

It would seem to me that if your purchase had nothing to do with SAB, what would make you choose BCV over BWV?

I bought OKW first, then VWL and then BCV. VWL and BCV were only to get the 11 month advantage there since we usually go holiday and school vacations. I didn't care much for BWV and it was offered by Disney when we bought our OKW. Don't know if it is that scary clown or what. It has never really appealed to me. But I do like BCV because it is quiet. Maybe that's the pattern in my purchases. My husband and son like SAB, but I prefer the quiet pool. SAB is just too crowded and hard to find a chair.

 

[PKS44]

Fair/unfair? I don't believe I have ever used the terms in this discussion. The question is the policy is now different. And why is that?

1) SAB used to be available sometimes for pool-hopping for those who wanted--for people like mjstaceyuofm-nobody ever forced you to poolhop but the fact that it is not important to you is pretty irrelevant to everyone else...you are entitled to value what you like, so is everyone else....

2)The reason given for the change in policy has rung false or a little hollow with some of us.

3)IF BCV owners were hurt in some way by allowing poolhopping I don't think anyone here now advocating some limited poolhopping would argue that that is fair or right...no one wants an SAB overcrowded--and most definitely those who stay there should be assured the best resort experience possible.

4)IF poolhopping at times has no effect on the experience of the YC/BC/BCV guests-who is harmed?

5)There is an assymmetry in resort guests priveleges---all pools are open to BCV guests-except AKL. The same is not true for OKW, VWL, BWV guests. I am not saying it is unfair...Just different and different than they have ever had before with DVC.

 

[KNWVIKING]

RE:Fair/unfair?

Sorry,I used "unfair" for lack of a better term. I wasn't trying to infer that you had used it first.

But whatever term one choses to insert there, the bottom line IMO is that BCV owners have an advantage over other DVC resort owners in the fact that they can always get into BCV by using the 11 month window. Next step down, BCV guests have an advantage over all other DVC resort guests because they can use your pool but you can't use their.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

I guess I'm just trying to gauge how important pool-hopping is to most members. I see a few vocal critics in this thread, but I have a sneaking suspicion there have been many threads on the subject where more people have jumped in to the fray... After reading the last few posts, I think I'm gaining an understanding of the beef here - it's not really about pool-hopping, it's about a perceived unfair advantage and treatment that BCV guests get (pool-hopping is just the medium in which the advantage is conveyed).

To get semi-back-on-topic, I think the "perks" for ALL DVC members need to be the same (i.e. fair), simple, and meaningful. Pool-hopping seems to be an extremely valued perk by some (if not most - I don't have stats one way or the other) members. With the way DVC has grown, I just don't know how feasible it is to keep and keep it fair. When it was just OKW and BW, it might have been easier to manage. But now you've got DVC villas as add-ons to existing hotels and even more DVC resorts entering the fray which really muddies the water if there's a lop-sided tendency for members to gravitate to SAB... It may be hard to maintain.

As far as perks go, I think the pool-hopping should go away in favor of meaningful ticket discounts on all tickets, and resort wide, uniform discounts at shops and restaurants and activities (i.e. golf, tennis, spa services, water parks, mini-golf, etc.). It's too hard to figure out where the revolving lunch discount is....

 

[KNWVIKING]

Pool hopping is no big deal to us,never done it,probably never will. But I will say that SAB is an exception. It is such a cool pool that I can understand why people would love to go there. As you stated, aperk for one should be a perk for all. I think the current situation is unfair.

 

[DVC_Couple_PA]

I guess I have the philosophy that you stay at the resort that has the amenities that you want. If I want to goto SAB, then I make my ressies at BCV (we don't even own there and got ressies for 2 weeks w/o waitlist so I know it's not impossible). If I want something else, I stay somewhere else. Let's face it, staying at BCV I could go over to the pool at OKW, but why would I? In addition you have people paying $300 - $400 a night cash at YC and BC. If I was paying $400 a night for a room at a resort I wouldn't want people invading my pool from other resorts.

Bottom line, if you are unhappy with the amenities at the resort at which YOU CHOSE to stay at, then march up to the front desk at the resort that has the amenities you want and check in.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"In addition you have people paying $300 - $400 a night cash at YC and BC. If I was paying $400 a night for a room at a resort I wouldn't want people invading my pool from other resorts. "

Not disagreeing with your statement, but IMO that logic is what one day may put an end to all pool hopping. WL,GF,Poly,Cont,Y&B,BW, they are all top dollar resorts, but only Y&B has a PH restriction. I'm surprised GF,Poly and Cont still allow it because they have no association with DVC.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

I'm surprised GF,Poly and Cont still allow it because they have no association with DVC.

Agreed. Haven't the GF and Poly recently completed rehabs on their pools to bring them more to the level of pool you have at WL?

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by DVC_Couple_PA
Bottom line, if you are unhappy with the amenities at the resort at which YOU CHOSE to stay at, then march up to the front desk at the resort that has the amenities you want and check in.

BRAVO!!


It really all boils down to personal choice. I can't walk to Epcot or MGM in 15 minutes from OKW, VB, HH or VWL- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't take a boat to MK from BCV, BWV, VB, HH or OKW- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't walk to DD in 15 minutes from BCV, VWL, VB, HH or BWV- if that's important to me I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't reserve a GV at BCV or VWL- if that's important to me, I'd better stay at OKW, BWV, HH or VB. I can't pool hop to SAB from BWV, VWL, VB, HH or OKW- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Tired of debating the issue so I'll ask you one simple yes/no question then I'm done with this thread:

You stay at OKW and can't swim at my pool. I stay at BCV but can swim at yours. Do you think this is fair ?

 

[Tom and Jen]

Great point Doc.............

KNWVIKING, I say "fair" with pool occupany control............ I agree that those at the resort take Priority period.

Note though, that SAB was well over crowded IMO before BCV opened.

We own at BWV...happily, and am trying to add on at my Home. I am not opting to add on at BCV, though I guess this would be the time to do it if SAB was an absolute necessity (sp!?)

point: BW also has an advantage with a STANDARD View booking.

I guess all resorts have one or two advantages over others, it is up to you to decide what is important to you. If you decide that "hey I really want to hangout poolside this trip" then try to reserve that way.

Again, I firmly feel that pool hopping can be allowed with some regulation. It was still a selling feature.

That about wraps it up......
T.

 

[KNWVIKING]

That's the problem though, there is no occupancy control like other resorts have. It's a flat out NO HOPPING ALLOWED. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if there were occupancy limits.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

As a BCV owner it will be hard for me to book a GV at either BWV or OKW with the 7 month window. This is same arguement that Viking is using in relation to the possibility that the rooms will be booked at BCV, thus making SAB unusable.

I understand that it does not change the fact that DVC eliminated a benefit, but DVD does have to negotiate with each WDW resort on the point exchanges. Might this have something to do with that? Is this WDW's way of limiting DVCers from SAB by only allowing BCV guests to use it? My contract states that I currently have access to SAB. Might it be taken away from BCV stays in the future? SAB is the pool for YC/BC not BCV. Thoughts????

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc
It really all boils down to personal choice. I can't walk to Epcot or MGM in 15 minutes from OKW, VB, HH or VWL- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't take a boat to MK from BCV, BWV, VB, HH or OKW- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't walk to DD in 15 minutes from BCV, VWL, VB, HH or BWV- if that's important to me I'd better stay where I can do that. I can't reserve a GV at BCV or VWL- if that's important to me, I'd better stay at OKW, BWV, HH or VB. I can't pool hop to SAB from BWV, VWL, VB, HH or OKW- if that's important to me, I'd better stay where I can do that.

It is not about choice, it is about honesty and consistency.

None of ththings you list was ever something you could possibly do EXCEPT the poolhopping --which Disney took away-- all the time-- supposedly because it was the only way to control the crowds. If that reason were believable, no one here would be arguing with it...Poolhopping has ALWAYS been allowed only so long as capacity allowed. The problem is that Disney's very own stated reason that SAB cannot handle the capacity of poolhopping all year round is demonstrably false. What is unknown is whether or not the capacity can handle hopping on any kind of regualr basis--say September to Thanksgiving. January to President's day...whatever....we don't know and we won't know---but pushing up sales of BCV could (and likely did)play a role in making this decision more than the inability of SAB to handle the crowds. that is the argument--let's stop dragging up non issues---never before perks like passes or transportation options that never existed--something WAS taken away--that is not under dispute--some don't care, some do--this takeaway seems to benefit Disney (increase BCV sales) to the detriment of some current DVC owners who took advantage of this perk in the past---the problem is that the stated reason seems to differ from the reality many of us have observed.


If a pool is not crowded, NO body- resort guest or otherwise would have any idea who was a poolhopper and who was not and it would not have any impact on their resort experience. It is a low cost perk compared to pases etc...except if it held back BCV sales, in which case it again becomes the real reason....it makes them more money to do it this way.

Paul

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Tired of debating the issue so I'll ask you one simple yes/no question then I'm done with this thread:

You stay at OKW and can't swim at my pool. I stay at BCV but can swim at yours. Do you think this is fair ?

Yep! (That's a yes.)

If I want to swim at SAB, I can stay at BCV of YC- it's my choice.

It is not about choice, it is about honesty and consistency.

Honesty and consistency??? Please give me any evidence where anyone has been dishonest regarding pool hopping. Just because you say something is dishonest doesn't make it so.

As for consistency, NO POOL HOPPING AT SAB sounds very consistent to me. I can't think of anything more consistent. Certainly allowing pool hopping at some times on some days wouldn't be consistent at all.

Would it make you satisfied to simply discontinue pool hopping altogether?

 

[disney4me4ever]

Would it make you satisfied to simply discontinue pool hopping altogether

At the risk of jumping into this discussion, I will add my .02. We are owners at BCV. We went home for our first trip as DVC members in March. We bought at the resort that had the amenities we desired: namely, access to Epcot & SAB. When we were there in March, SAB was so crowded, we could not find a place to sit ~~until almost the last day of our vacation. We didn't even KNOW about pool hopping at that point. But it would make me pretty mad if I paid dearly for the privilege of owning at BCV to not be able to enjoy the pool because other guests were pool hopping. So, yes, I would be fine if pool hopping was discontinued. As many have advised, and that was the direction we followed, buy or make your reservations at the resort that has the amenities you want.

Nancy

 

[KNWVIKING]

We were there in Oct. Beautiful,sunny,warm weather. SAB was virtually empty.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Tired of debating the issue so I'll ask you one simple yes/no question then I'm done with this thread:

Done??????

We were there in Oct. Beautiful,sunny,warm weather. SAB was virtually empty.

So, you sat at the pool all day, every day counting guests? How many were there at 10:30am? 11:15am? 1:30pm? 3:00pm? 5:00pm? What was the usage during the days before and the days after your stake out? So, because you observed a few minutes on one day (or a few minutes for a few days) your assessment is that the pool should have been open to anyone? Have you provided your detailed data to BC/YC/BCV/DVC for consideration or is this just some anecdotal evidence for an internet bulletin board?

 

[KNWVIKING]

I'll contribute to other facts as I see fit. You can delete them if you wish.

Our experience at SAB: Let's see, never paid attention to times and dates, but the CM said we didn't need to bother with the wrist band. Finally made her give me one just so I could have one. When I go this Oct, I'll be sure and video with time/date stamp so I'll be able to prove what I observed.

"So, you sat at the pool all day, every day counting guests? How many were there at 10:30am? 11:15am? 1:30pm? 3:00pm? 5:00pm? What was the usage during the days before and the days after your stake out? So, because you observed a few minutes on one day (or a few minutes for a few days) your assessment is that the pool should have been open to anyone? Have you provided your detailed data to BC/YC/BCV/DVC for consideration or is this just some anecdotal evidence for an internet bulletin board? "


Do you know how foolish/childish this post sounds. Way below the standards I'd expect from a moderator.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
I'll contribute to other facts as I see fit. You can delete them if you wish.

Our experience at SAB: Let's see, never paid attention to times and dates, but the CM said we didn't need to bother with the wrist band. Finally made her give me one just so I could have one. When I go this Oct, I'll be sure and video with time/date stamp so I'll be able to prove what I observed.

No one has deleted anything you've written- except you. It was just amusing to see you still "debating the issue" after being "done with this thread".

I haven't seen DVC issue any statement about the pools hours or wristbands- that is a resort policy- but please provide what you've received from DVC on that subject. I've seen nothing dishonest from DVC there. Got any other "dishonest" examples?