My mom - what a piece of work (update post 84/125/149/154)

[Disney Doll]

You know OP, your DD sounds great. You know her best, so only you can tell if she's been "traumatized" by this event or not. I will say that sometimes kids are not as traumatized by things as we adults think they are....I can recall being around the same age as your DD and having a very dear, very close uncle who suddenly "fell off the wagon" after years of not drinking. I had never known this uncle as a drinking man, and then one day he came to my parents' house drunk accompanied by a "lady of the evening" (and my father was a cop) and then things went downhill from there. He became a different person, and there were a couple of encounters with him after that which were much like what you descibed in your OP, except with the added "bonus" of him being drunk!!!! As he was older, a veteran & had a couple of health issues, my parents got him fairly quickly placed in a veterans home where he stayed, pretty happily, until his death several years later.

I can't say it traumatized me. I was able to see his behavior for what it was at age 13... a result of his drinking which was his issue, not mine or anyone else's. My parents were quick to explain that to me, to tell me that Uncle Mike didn't know what he was saying when he was drunk so I shouldn't pay attention to it, so I really didn't. My reaction was "Oh, Uncle Mike's drunk again" and life went on. I never took to heart that I was a wh--- or a bi--- because Uncle Mike said that. I always just thought "Eh...he doesn't know what he's saying because he's drunk".

I can recall my parents "overtalking" it for a while with my brother and I. I know it was their concern to make sure we were OK, but I finally had to say "You know guys, I really don't think I am a wh--- or a bi--- because my drunk uncle said so. I know he has a problem, I know you guys are trying to get him help, I appreciate that you're worried about me, but it's really no biggie". And it really wasn't.
Plus, when my parents heard their 13 year old daughter say wh--- and bi---, they about passed out, so that effectively ended the conversation

So, if she seems pretty much untraumatized by it, and she seems pretty matter-of-fact about it, and you feel pretty certain that she actually is untraumatized, then I don't know if I'd keep harping on her "trauma". From her statement, she seems to understand that Grandma's behavior is not normal and wasn't on based on her (DD) but on Grandma's issues or illness. Consider that it may truly be all there is to it for her...she may truly be thinking "Well, Grandma's nuts...it's got nothing to do with me".

I can look back on my uncle & that situation now and appreciate that my parents were pretty upfront about it. My experience with my uncle taught me that human beings will not always be perfect, that they will fail you, that they have weaknesses and imperfections. I know parents like to protect their children from some of the harsh realities of life, but better they should learn some of them when they have the love and support of their parents to guide them through it, right? If I were you I wouldn't keep exposing my DD to her grandmother because eventually she's going to start thinking "Why do my parents keep making me see Grandma when they know she's nuts & keeps acting out and then I have to deal with it?", but if this is the only time she has had this kind of scene with Grandma, she will probably emerge relatively unscathed unless someone convinces her otherwise that she should be "scathed" by it.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I am shocked that the OP left her children with this woman when she knew that she was unbalanced and she saw the meltdown before she left. This incident was as much the OP's fault as the grandmother's.

This woman is a danger to herself and others. Why would you let your children stay with such a person - EVER?

Sorry for being blunt, but the OP shouldn't get a free pass here...

 

[Wishing on a star]

Thanks Disney Bama Fan....

Like I said in my above post...
I am NOT trying to place blame, or take away a free pass...
I just think the OP should be sure to obtain some professional counseling/therapy to sort thru any personal issues.

I see huge red flags...
The kids were left with that woman. NO WAY would my DS be left anywhere after hearing door-slamming, screaming, wailing, etc... PERIOD.
After the incident, the cellphones were there, ringing. NO WAY would I sit there, letting my child have a cell phone with some psychotic woman who had accosted them ringing the number.... Would have taken the phones and blocked that number IMMEDIATELY.
And, If I EVER received that kind of phone all from my child... 911 would have been called IMMEDIATELY.
The OP seems more concerned about how this affects her father, and protecting her father, more than her children. (It is not about whether the children have been scarred for life... I am not assuming that they are.) It is about acknowledging that this is NOT okay and promising that their mother will NEVER SUBJECT THEM TO THIS AGAIN.

This isn't about who likes the DD's hair... It is about mental illness and physical assault/threat.

I am not trying to be harsh or place blame...

But, for her sake, and the children's sake, I think she should take a good look at the issues that are involved in this situation.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

Whoa!! Serious, serious issues..

Your poor DD - being terrorized like that by her own grandmother.. I would be so far beyond furious, I think my head would have exploded by now!

I don't normally advocate children being kept away from their grandparents, but your mom sounds like a loose cannon.. Make sure grandpa can see them often - at your house.. I would tell grandma that if she doesn't seek professional help, she will either have to have supervised visits or no visits at all.. How sad..

I agree with C. Ann. Your mom sounds like she needs serious professional help. I would not allow a child near a person who behaved that way.

 

[sbell111]

Everyone is talking about how the OP's mother is mentally ill/imbalanced, and needs some professional help.

I am not trying to be harsh here... but I am truly concerned that the OP might need some counseling/therapy to address these ongoing family issues.

I just can't understand how the children were left there that day.
Her daughter was chased and physically accosted/threatened. 911 was not called. ( I don't know how far the OP lives for her DH to drive over there) No authorities were ever called.
Calling some authorities might have mandated some treatment for the OP's mother... but it was strictly avoided.
The children still had their cellphones, hearing them ring with their grandma's number. (just - don't pick up if it's her...) Why wasn't the grandma's number at least blocked IMMEDiATELY? I am assuming that the children still have the same cellphones, with the unblocked number, should grandma go off the deep end and start in again.
On this thread, it appears that the OP has talked more about being a 'daddy's girl' and her concerns for her dad, than she has expressed concern for her own children.
It should not be up to the OP's daughter to say, "oh, it's all right, it's grandma's issue..." so the the OP feels better... (which, of course, is what the child will want to do) It is up to the OP to say NO, this is NOT all right.. I will make sure that you are never subject to anything like this ever again.

Again, I am sorry for being so blunt... but, for the OP's sake (and her children) I hope that she is receiving some counseling and support.

1. The children were left there because the OP didn't imagine that her mother would act this way. Just because the grandmother has a history of wacky drama, doesn't mean that she would do this. Lesson learned.
2. It is not at all uncommon for families to attempt to handle all sorts of situations internally, rather than to call the police.
3. Regarding the cels, the kids now are fully aware that thier grandmother has swam with the crazy fish. Taking away thier cels is not going to unring that bell. The number isn't blocked for the same reason that I haven't blocked the numbers of my father or sister in law. While it is certainly true that I don't wish to talk to them, I still wish to listen to the message. It's all about leaving the door cracked and praying for the situation to improve.
4. They have spoken to the kids who apparently 'get it'.

 

[karibritt01]

1. The children were left there because the OP didn't imagine that her mother would act this way. Just because the grandmother has a history of wacky drama, doesn't mean that she would do this. Lesson learned.
2. It is not at all uncommon for families to attempt to handle all sorts of situations internally, rather than to call the police.
3. Regarding the cels, the kids now are fully aware that thier grandmother has swam with the crazy fish. Taking away thier cels is not going to unring that bell. The number isn't blocked for the same reason that I haven't blocked the numbers of my father or sister in law. While it is certainly true that I don't wish to talk to them, I still wish to listen to the message. It's all about leaving the door cracked and praying for the situation to improve.
4. They have spoken to the kids who apparently 'get it'.

I agree completely. And would also like to add that:

5. The father was barely mentioned in the first post. It wasn't until OP was repeatedly asked about her father, where he was (outside), what he was doing (cutting grass), and if he was being abused... that she posted anything in depth about her father at all. And it wasn't until posters called him guilty by association that she defended him.

6. A psychotic break is unpredictable. Grandma had a history of theatrics, not violence. Not a single person, adult or child, felt that there was any danger in leaving the kids at the grandparents house. Violence was not a forseeable conclusion based on a lifetime of behavior.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

It's so easy to stand back and judge when you are not in the situation. Even easier when you can hide behind a screen name.

There's a little saying about casting the first stone, so I am guessing those that are being so "blunt" have lived an absolutely perfect life. I know it is a message board and you are entitled to your opinions, but it seems counterproductive in this case to tell them what they should have done prior to the incident. It's like telling a burn victim not to go into the fire after they've all ready been burned.

What's done is done. The best the OP can do now is move forward, knowing that her children are not safe around her mother. What a horrible experience for everyone involved.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

There's a little saying about casting the first stone, so I am guessing those that are being so "blunt" have lived an absolutely perfect life.

Or have actually been through the process that the OP has described.

Those people know how ugly it's going to get before it gets any better, so yeah, they're probably kinda harsh, too.

FWIW, lots of us with crazy in the family look back and say, yeah, I shoulda seen that one coming...

 

[mjkacmom]

To be honest, I have never seen hair that has never been cut look attractive - it looks messy, and dated. Parents who refuse to cut their dds' hair must have some kind of issue, as do people who refuse to have their own hair cut. It's like a security blanket or something. Everyone needs a trim periodically.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree completely. And would also like to add that:

5. The father was barely mentioned in the first post. It wasn't until OP was repeatedly asked about her father, where he was (outside), what he was doing (cutting grass), and if he was being abused... that she posted anything in depth about her father at all. And it wasn't until posters called him guilty by association that she defended him.

6. A psychotic break is unpredictable. Grandma had a history of theatrics, not violence. Not a single person, adult or child, felt that there was any danger in leaving the kids at the grandparents house. Violence was not a forseeable conclusion based on a lifetime of behavior.

I was not casting stones...
I was expressing concern.
I still stand by every word I posted.

1. It is very clear that everyone is aware of grandma's issues... Doors were slammed, there was yelling, and wailing. It is clear that the op DID indeed know that the situation was not good.

2. It is clear that the OP was 'protecting' her father by not giving details about why he was not there to protect the DD. (until pressed)
Then it was all about her being a Daddy's Girl, and her concerns for her father.

3. I too, as the adult/parent, would not completely block all communications access to my parent or close family member... In fact, I would be quick to run interference. But, we are talking about her CHILDREN's phones here.... Her daughter's phone. The number should have been blocked, IMMEDIATELY, knowing that there was a mentally unstable psychotic person who had been physically aggressive calling the child. Period. No further discussion needed here. She put them thru the situation of having their grandma call them, and to know this, and to not be able to answer the phone. Not acceptable.

I will agree that most families are reluctant to involve authorities.. but I don't care if it is a family member or not... I can kind of understand that... But, If my child is threatened.. I will call 911 immediately. In actuality, this was a missed opportunity to get some mandated help for the grandmother (and thus the OP's father as well.)

PS: I will be the first to say that I have NOT had a perfect life.... I am personally experienced with mentally unstable relatives.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

To be honest, I have never seen hair that has never been cut look attractive - it looks messy, and dated. Parents who refuse to cut their dds' hair must have some kind of issue, as do people who refuse to have their own hair cut. It's like a security blanket or something. Everyone needs a trim periodically.

I don't judge people by how often they get their hair cut.

Long is fine, short is fine, bald is fine, faux hawks are fine, purple's fine.

If the worst thing about a parent is that they want their kid to have long hair? Well, dang, what's the big deal?

Assuming people have an issue because of their hair, well, everyone's got issues, some people just use their hair to express it.

More power to 'em.

 

[Wishing on a star]

People..... this is NOT about the hair!!!

 

[ms.yt]

I agree completely. And would also like to add that:

5. The father was barely mentioned in the first post. It wasn't until OP was repeatedly asked about her father, where he was (outside), what he was doing (cutting grass), and if he was being abused... that she posted anything in depth about her father at all. And it wasn't until posters called him guilty by association that she defended him.

6. A psychotic break is unpredictable. Grandma had a history of theatrics, not violence. Not a single person, adult or child, felt that there was any danger in leaving the kids at the grandparents house. Violence was not a forseeable conclusion based on a lifetime of behavior.

Yes, but a couple of things OP has said disturb me. First, even if they thought things weren't going to escalate to the level they did, they still left the kids there alone with her in the house. She said in the first post that her dad said he would take the kids out and get away from her after he finished cutting the grass & when they left he was mowing. So, they left the kids there with grandma wailing and screaming in the bathroom and dad mowing where he couldn't even hear if something went wrong?????

And, most importantly, OP keeps saying that there is no way anybody could see this coming because she's always adored her grandkids. However, in one of her posts she says something about when her DD accidentally hit her grandma when she was "going after her," grandma said something like "just like your mother." This leads me to believe there were violent attacks in the past toward OP, just not to the grandkids. So...that leads me to wonder why OP thought that if she was violent towards her child, why would the grandkids be exempt? It seems like everybody in this woman's life has been tiptoeing around her mentally illness for years, and, in all honesty, situations like that rarely change, not because of the mentally ill person, but because of others' unwillingness to stand their ground. I hope that's not the case in the OP's situation, for the sake of her children.

 

[lillygator]

1. The children were left there because the OP didn't imagine that her mother would act this way. Just because the grandmother has a history of wacky drama, doesn't mean that she would do this. Lesson learned.
2. It is not at all uncommon for families to attempt to handle all sorts of situations internally, rather than to call the police.
3. Regarding the cels, the kids now are fully aware that thier grandmother has swam with the crazy fish. Taking away thier cels is not going to unring that bell. The number isn't blocked for the same reason that I haven't blocked the numbers of my father or sister in law. While it is certainly true that I don't wish to talk to them, I still wish to listen to the message. It's all about leaving the door cracked and praying for the situation to improve.
4. They have spoken to the kids who apparently 'get it'.

the mom was acting that way when she left.

 

[lillygator]

We get over there and my dad was out cutting the grass. DD got out of the car and walked over to him. He had a shocked look, then a big smile. He told her it sure was different, but he liked it and gave her a hug. We went on into the house. DD and I had to go back to my mom and dads bedroom to find her. And when we did, the day of happieness made a u-turn and headed for hades.

My mom started crying. Would barely look at DD. Just glared at me. DD kept trying to hug her grandma, but she just kept pushing her away. Telling her, she couldn't believe we would do that to her. Go away, leave

I mean I could and would not leave my child in that situation.

 

[jen0610]

To be honest, I have never seen hair that has never been cut look attractive - it looks messy, and dated. Parents who refuse to cut their dds' hair must have some kind of issue, as do people who refuse to have their own hair cut. It's like a security blanket or something. Everyone needs a trim periodically.

DD's hair has never had substantual lenght cut. She has had the ends trimmed to keep it healthy looking. Believe me, this kid gets stopped all the time by women, stating they would love to have half the head of hair she does. The upkeep on her hair - washing, putting it up in rollers, multipule combing and brushings a day - were not lacking. She loved having hair that reminded her of Rapunzel.


Someone asked if these were the only grandkids, and yes they are. 99.9% certain that neither of my brothers will ever have kids. Like I said previously, the sun rises and set on my kids as far as my mother is concerned. They can do no wrong, in her eyes.

Yes, over the years my kids have either been witnesses to, as in being in the same room, as well as hearing, as in being in the same house, my mother having it out with me. The arguing at it's worst, would always be tampered by the kids. They have, or at least had been, a calming factor to my mother.

I think someone posted that this isn't truely about a haircut. And it's not. It is about my mothers need to be in control of the lives of her grandkids. And in her eyes, us taking DD to get her hair cut, was taken away from her control.

From my original post.

My mother barely looked at my DD. Just enough to see that her hair was cut. She GLARED at ME. When she left messages on my phone and from what we can understand from them, she is mad that: We didn't ASK HER PERMISSION to cut DD's hair. That we didn't LET HER CUT DD'S hair. By not doing either of these she feels that I stabbed her in the back. With the kids having spent very little time over there this summer, that we (DH and I) turned them against her.

My mother was/is TICKED OFF AT ME. I got my DD's hair cut, not because that is what DD wanted, but because it isn't what my mom wanted. It was just another way for me to stab her in the back. If she had control of DD, believe me her hair NEVER would have been cut.

Anything that we do, that mother doesn't like or approve of, I am once again showing how ungratful of a daughter I am. Her whole issue is with me, but this time she snapped and took it out on my DD.

I asked my dad last night, what exactly was mom trying to get a hold of DD for, when she was chasing her. What he's gotten out of her, is it's too short. She was going to prove it by pulling her hair back into a pigtail. He and I talked about mom having to get help. He did tell me, that there are other things she is dealing with, that I didn't know about and wasn't previously any of my business. I told him that no matter what, she shouldn't have done what she did and she now has to suffer for those actions. She either keeps being delusional and stays the course or she gets her behind to the dr and gets help. He has talked to both my brothers, so they know what is going on, as she will be calling them to cry on their shoulders about what a horrid daughter I am. Dad is coming over to our house tonight, so we will be talking some more.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I mean I could and would not leave my child in that situation.

I understand what you're saying, but the OP has stated that the mother has behaved in a mean and petulant manner like this before, and everyone just deals with it (or in my book, allows it to continue, but different strokes and all).

If you haven't been in a family where temper tantrums like this are commonplace and expected, then yeah, that behavior would totally cause you to take the kid back home. But I think it was behavior the OP was used to and therefore didn't see it as something out of the ordinary.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not trying to make excuses for her, but I can see where it was an understandable mistake given her history.

As long as she doesn't repeat this mistake in the future, I think overall it was an excellent "light bulb" moment for her...

 

[sbell111]

the mom was acting that way when she left.

THat is not correct. The grandmother was whining and crying locked in a room. She was not aggressive in any way toward her granddaughter.

 

[jen0610]

I understand what you're saying, but the OP has stated that the mother has behaved in a mean and petulant manner like this before, and everyone just deals with it (or in my book, allows it to continue, but different strokes and all).

If you haven't been in a family where temper tantrums like this are commonplace and expected, then yeah, that behavior would totally cause you to take the kid back home. But I think it was behavior the OP was used to and therefore didn't see it as something out of the ordinary.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not trying to make excuses for her, but I can see where it was an understandable mistake given her history.

As long as she doesn't repeat this mistake in the future, I think overall it was an excellent "light bulb" moment for her...

Believe me....there are a thousand coulda, woulda, shoulda options running through our minds right now. When we left Saturday, neither DS or DD had any reservations about staying there. If either had said or shown that they didn't want to be there, they would have gone back home with us. They have seen grandma throw fits before, they know it's not the proper way to behave, but they also know this is how grandma acts at times.

 

[frndshpcptn]

I understand what you're saying, but the OP has stated that the mother has behaved in a mean and petulant manner like this before, and everyone just deals with it (or in my book, allows it to continue, but different strokes and all).

If you haven't been in a family where temper tantrums like this are commonplace and expected, then yeah, that behavior would totally cause you to take the kid back home. But I think it was behavior the OP was used to and therefore didn't see it as something out of the ordinary.

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not trying to make excuses for her, but I can see where it was an understandable mistake given her history.

As long as she doesn't repeat this mistake in the future, I think overall it was an excellent "light bulb" moment for her...

I have a family where temper tantrums (from select adults) have happened at get togethers, and how we've chosen to handle it is for the adult children to simply get up and leave. That's it. No staying and (therefore) enabling that behavior. As soon as it starts, we all get up and walk out out of the house. All of us. It's just not tolerated.

Since we have started doing that, the temper tantrums have definitely decreased in occurance.