My Journey to 50 miles (2nd attempt)... (comments welcome)

[disneygpa]

But that assumes your HRmax is correct. Did you use 220-age? Because that's a faulty calculation with a huge standard deviation. It's an average, but the deviation from the average is so large it renders the calculation useless for most people. You are stating your HRmax is 168. Have you never seen a HR value higher than that ever?

I did use the 220 - age to arrive at the 168. I see your point. I routinely have a HR higher than 168 so that can't be my max. Looking at recent runs, I've had values as high as 193. That was only once and it was just a peak. However, I have seen values in the mid and upper 180's running up hills. I guess I need to do a maxHR test and see what my max actually is.

HRR = HRmax - HRrest

Assuming a 185 HRmax and HRrest of 51 my HRR = 134

My exercise HR @ 70% should be around 145. That sound about right?

This mornings run was 147 avg. I'm thinking that is probably about right. It was a very comfortable pace.

@DopeyBadger Just curious if you can see the HR data on my Strava?


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Next topic:
Tuesday morning run! What a great morning for a run! A little chill to the morning, upper 30's and not a cloud in the sky! Moon was bright and might have been able to run without my headlamp if I wasn't so paranoid about tripping over things in the sidewalks.

fitbit stats

Total time 47:09
Total distance 4.03 miles
mile 1- 11:28
mile 2- 11:36
mile 3- 11:45
mile 4- 11:58
avg pace 11:42
avg HR 147

Something interesting to note on HR. While trying to run a slower pace I see bigger spikes in HR. When I've kept my paces faster, I usually get up to 165 or so and it hovers between 160 and 170. Today, the rate varied between 125 and 173 this seems to correlate to elevation gain or loss and pace. Makes sense I suspect, but I found it interesting.

 

[disneygpa]

For me, I line up training paces via recent race performance (or a mile test). Almost always, my HR will align in the areas I expect them to based on the training paces.

This may be a silly question but what is a "mile test"?

Thanks!

 

[DopeyBadger]

I did use the 220 - age to arrive at the 168. I see your point. I routinely have a HR higher than 168 so that can't be my max. Looking at recent runs, I've had values as high as 193. That was only once and it was just a peak. However, I have seen values in the mid and upper 180's running up hills. I guess I need to do a maxHR test and see what my max actually is.

HRR = HRmax - HRrest

Assuming a 185 HRmax and HRrest of 51 my HRR = 134

My exercise HR @ 70% should be around 145. That sound about right?

This mornings run was 147 avg. I'm thinking that is probably about right. It was a very comfortable pace.

@DopeyBadger Just curious if you can see the HR data on my Strava?

So an easy run should be around 122-141. So the run today was more like a low end long run. Based on the relationship of the above chart and your HR on runs of different paces, I'd take a guess you're somewhere close to this:





Thus, if you follow the principals of 80% easy and 20% hard, then you'd want 80% of training to be at an 11:51 min/mile or slower (about 50% of all training at 12:10 or slower).

Something interesting to note on HR. While trying to run a slower pace I see bigger spikes in HR. When I've kept my paces faster, I usually get up to 165 or so and it hovers between 160 and 170. Today, the rate varied between 125 and 173 this seems to correlate to elevation gain or loss and pace. Makes sense I suspect, but I found it interesting.

Hard to say definitively because you don't have cadence data, but if you're wearing an optical sensor HR monitor, then you may not be wearing it tight enough. It may be picking up on cadence data instead of HR data. It's because the optical sensors will receive data by the bounce/gap in your wrist during your cadence and measure that as HR instead of an actual beat.

This may be a silly question but what is a "mile test"?

A mile test is where someone attempts to run a mile about as fast as they can. Maybe 95% total effort of a true mile PR. So very hard, but not completely all out. It would be done with a 20-30 min warm-up with some short pickups (about 10 seconds) in pace. The outcome of the mile test is a raw assessment of pure speed/power. Then using that, you can look at a race equivalency chart to find training paces. However, the further race distance from the mile, the more it's unlikely you'll hit that time without the correct training. So a 8:22 mile (as shown in the above chart) does not guarantee a 29:43 5k, 2:16 HM or 4:45 M. It merely means with the right training those are achievable goals. The mile test is a nice way to find training paces while minimizing the necessary recovery from an event. Because the longer the distance event, the more recovery needed from it. So you could do a 5k test or 10k test instead, but they require a greater amount of prior training and recovery to yield the most accurate representation. But if you have a recent 5k/10k already from a race that you deem as a near all-out effort, then I'd defer to using that over the mile test (because again the length of test matters in its relationship to further distances).

 

[disneygpa]

Thank you for all the info!! With this new information I'm trying to make some changes to my running. Turns out, running at a slower pace isn't as easy as it sounds. I did a good job of slowing down and kept my HR in check last night! Just feels weird to run slower than I have been. I know in the long run this is most likely the best course of action for me.

Thursdays run
fitbit stats
Total distance 4.02 miles
Total time 47:22
mile 1- 11:29
mile 2- 11:43
mile 3- 12:16
mile 4- 11:37
avg pace 11:47
avg HR 147

@DopeyBadger, I feel like I might be asking too many questions. And if so, feel free to tell me you've had enough... I don't mean to over use your generosity with your time.
But, I have another question. Using the chart above, is this what I should be shooting for when I run a race? I have a 10k coming up in a couple weeks and though I don't have any specific goals for times. I don't really want to run 12 min miles for the race. Should I be shooting for the 9:58 pace/mile that's in the chart? Thanks again for all your help!

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger, I feel like I might be asking too many questions. And if so, feel free to tell me you've had enough... I don't mean to over use your generosity with your time.
But, I have another question. Using the chart above, is this what I should be shooting for when I run a race? I have a 10k coming up in a couple weeks and though I don't have any specific goals for times. I don't really want to run 12 min miles for the race. Should I be shooting for the 9:58 pace/mile that's in the chart? Thanks again for all your help!

It's a rough guess as to where your fitness may be. No guarantees you can actually run a 1:02 10k. But it's a better starting point than nothing. Since you don't know for sure, I'd say being somewhat conservative against this chart will likely yield the highest probability of a best outcome. But definitely don't have to run the 10k at 12 min/miles if the 10k is serving as a race and not a supported training run of some type.

If the 9:58 min/mile is a 10k goal you may want to shoot for, then try and incorporate some interval type training around that pace. Something around the 10:00-10:10 pace once a week. Like the following workout:

10 min warmup + 3 x 1 mile at 10:00 min/mile with a resting interval between each set of 2 minutes + 10 mile cool down

then the next week try:

10 min warmup + 3 x 1.5 mile at 10:00 min/mile with a resting interval between each set of 3 minutes + 10 mile cool down

then as long as the next week isn't race week, then try:

10 min warmup + 2 x 2 mile at 10:00 min/mile with a resting interval between each set of 5 minutes + 10 mile cool down

Only one of these types of workouts a week max though.

 

[disneygpa]

Thanks again for all the info @DopeyBadger !!!!

Sunday 6 miles. Longest run since my accident. Kept my HR in check and kept my pace pretty close to where I needed.

Fitbit stats
Total time 1:10:11
Total distance 6.01 miles
Avg pace 11:40
Avg HR 151
mile 1- 11:15 <----- went out a little too fast, didn't seem to hurt in the long run
mile 2- 11:37
mile 3- 11:41
mile 4- 11:46
mile 5- 11:49
mile 6- 11:52

I'm pleased with this. Max HR only hit 166 and that was when going up some long hills. Interesting note and maybe its just a coincidence but, my resting HR has dropped since I've slowed my pace down. Resting HR is now at 50 was floating around 53.

This actually ends week 5 of the Hal Higdon half marathon novice 1 training. Somewhere my counting got off and I thought this was the end of week 3. Anywho.... Next weekend is supposed to be a 5k race in the training plan. I have to work and can't find a race nearby to fit my schedule. Soooo... I'll go out and see how fast I can run one without race conditions.

EDIT:
Wanted to note a couple things for me to reference later.
1. After about an hour I get hungry. Need to start learning to eat on the run I guess. Anyone have a favorite on the go snack?! This will be a first for me, so I want to try different things.... On a similar note, might need to start carrying water with me also...

2. DON'T forget to empty my bladder before a longer run. There are no port o potties along my current route. Might need to start planning on running past city parks or something as the runs get longer!!!

 

[disneygpa]

Got my lazy rear out of bed this morning and knocked my run out before the sun came up!! First time I can remember actually running in the rain for a long time!! It was kind of relaxing to hear the rain, frogs, and quietness of my little town before everyone else gets up. Fun fact... running in the rain with a headlamp on is similar to driving in the snow with your high beams on. You kind of get the Millennium Falcon light speed feel!!

Fitbit stats
Total time 46:37
Total distance 4.05 miles
Avg pace 11:30
Avg HR 145
mile 1- 11:44
mile 2- 10:22 <----- must have really been feeling the light speed!!
mile 3- 11:53
mile 4- 11:59

Also, did my garage workout last night. We've really been slacking on these and I really need to make more of an effort to get out and do them.

 

[disneygpa]

Last nights run was on a new path and included DW with her new bicycle!



We had a great time! We decided to go a short drive from the house to the Centennial Trail. It is a nice wide path for runner, bikers, walkers, horses etc. I figured it would be a good place for her to get her bicycle skills back up to speed!

My run was slow and steady.

Fitbit stats
Total time 47:50
Total distance 4.03 miles
Avg pace 11:51
Avg HR 145
mile 1- 11:23
mile 2- 11:53
mile 3- 12:34
mile 4- 11:39

Probably did a little too much talking and not as much running. Regardless it was fun to get out with her and get some fresh air!!

Big news for me.... I just signed up for my first half marathon. http://marchpointfunrun.com/

It is June 22nd which is one day short of one year since breaking my back and also the 9th angelversary of my son in law who was killed in Afghanistan.
So, a very meaningful day to me in lots of different ways!!

 

[disneygpa]

Sunday was a great day for a run! Was supposed to try and find a 5k race, but since I had to work this past weekend I just went and ran a 5k about as fast as I could.
DW went with me again and rode her bike. I ran the same path that I ran on Thursday, only a little shorter section.

Fitbit stats
Total time 30:13
Total distance 3.14
Avg pace 9:38
Avg HR168
mile 1- 9:24
mile 2- 9:47
mile 3- 9:46
.14 miles- 9:13

I was hoping to run a little faster. But it is what it is and I'm still pretty happy with the results! Have my first 10k coming up this Saturday. The extended forecast is looking like it might be a wet one!!

@DopeyBadger- Looks like your race pace chart is pretty dang close!! Chart predicted 9:34 avg pace and I managed 9:38. I think that's pretty close!

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger- Looks like your race pace chart is pretty dang close!! Chart predicted 9:34 avg pace and I managed 9:38. I think that's pretty close!

 

[disneygpa]

Tuesday morning run. Today's chorus of frogs was joined by the distant yipping and howling of the coyotes. Great morning for a run. Temps in the low 40's and no precipitation.

fitbit stats
Total time 54:07
Total distance 4.54 miles
Avg pace 11:54
Avg HR 143
mile 1- 11:56
mile 2- 12:07
mile 3- 12:05
mile 4- 11:39
.54 miles- 11:34

Probably need to pick up the pace just a skosh.
Started experimenting with run fuel today. Had one serrving of Clif blok energy chew, black cherry, prior to run. Flavor was good, not TOO sweet, a little bit of a weird aftertaste for me.
These contain caffeine. They sat well in my tummy but may have helped things start "moving" a little. Will try them again and see how it goes! I like the caffeine for the early morning pick me up!

 

[disneygpa]

Thursday was a beautiful day for a run! Sunny and 64 with a slight breeze out of the west. The breeze coming off the water was a little chilly but felt good after awhile! I believe this is the first time all year I've managed to run without a base layer of some kind.

fitbit stats
Total time 48:07
Total distance 4.53 miles
avg pace 10:37
avg HR 160
mile 1- 10:46
mile 2- 10:38
mile 3- 11:00
mile 4- 10:22
.53 miles- 10:02

Set out to see if I could run somewhere between my hardest and my easy pace. I think I was successful. I have a feel for how much effort I had to put in to run around 10:30 pace. I have my first 10k on Saturday. The goal is to try and keep the pace around 10:30. Though, survival is the first priority!! Looks like it'll be a wet race on Saturday. Forecast is saying mid 40's and rain. As long as it isn't a downpour that doesn't seem all that bad.

All you Strava folks. Have you ever had a run not sync up? This is the first time my fitbit hasn't synced with my Strava. Is there a way to force them to sync? I just put the run in manually, but I don't have all the data that normally comes with the run.

 

[DopeyBadger]

All you Strava folks. Have you ever had a run not sync up? This is the first time my fitbit hasn't synced with my Strava. Is there a way to force them to sync? I just put the run in manually, but I don't have all the data that normally comes with the run.

It happens from time to time for me. I just download the file from my service (either Garmin or TrainerRoad) and then manually upload the file itself to Strava. In general, everything seems to load correctly from that file for me (.fit, .tcx, or .gpx).

 

[disneygpa]

Yesterday was my first 10k since I was probably 18 yrs old. http://tuliprun.skagitrunners.org/
I'm a touch slower now... Probably ran that in 36-38 min back in those days.
Now I'm a shade over and hour. Not complaining though, I'm actually very happy with my results!!

fitbit stats
Total time 1:01:11
Total distance 6.23 miles
Avg pace 9:48
Avg HR 169
mile 1- 9:42
mile 2- 9:42
mile 3- 9:54
mile 4- 10:03
mile 5- 9:48
mile 6- 9:47
.23 miles 9:25

Strava summary:



Weather started out 49 and cloudy. First 1.5 miles or so is a nice gradual downhill and I found myself settle into a good comfortable pace during this portion. After 1.5 it started to go uphill, and that nice gradual downhill became a looooong gradual uphill. For the next 3.5 miles. Now this uphill isn't Mount Everest, but after awhile I found it a bit of a challenge. Then things leveled off and it was a nice gradual down hill to the finish. At about 3 miles it started to rain. Now, if you've ever been to the Seattle area we are famous for rain. But usually its just a mist. Just enough that you have to keep your wipers on low.... Yesterday however, it decided it was actually going to RAIN and for the next 2 miles, it rained and rained. Pretty well soaked to the bone by the finish.

I feel pretty good today, no soreness, but I do feel a bit fatigued in my back and just a touch in my legs.

Even though I'm very pleased with completing the 10k and feel I ran about as good as I could.
The highlight of the day was getting to meet the newest edition to my extended family. I'm sure that anyone that has kids, has groups that call you mom & dad. I have a handful of spare daughters that have called me dad for years. On Friday one of these girls had her first baby!!! Whoop whoop!! We swung by after the race and I got a chance to hold him!! He's so tiny! Welcome to the world Brier Lee! Can't wait to see you grow!

Thanks for the Strava advice Billy!! I honestly didn't know you could download the data and transfer it. Now I just need to figure out how to do it.

 

[Jules76126]

Congrats on a successful 10K.

 

[disneygpa]

First training day for my upcoming half marathon under my brand spanking new @DopeyBadger training plan! Thanks Billy!!
Goal was 2.5 miles EA pace @ 12:51/mile

Fitbit stats
Total time 32:50
Total distance 2.52
Avg pace 13:01
Avg HR 131
mile 1- 13:17
mile 2- 12:44
.52 mile- 13:00

A little slow on my first mile, a little fast on my second mile but overall I think I was pretty close to my goal pace of 12:51.
I think my furry training partner had a harder time with this pace than I did. Seemed like he couldn't decide if it was a fast walk or slow trot for him!

 

[disneygpa]

Thursday morning run!! Or according to Strava a night run!
Goal 2.5 miles EA @ 12:51

Fitbit stats
Total time 33:03
Total distance 2.51 miles
Avg pace 13:10
Avg HR 128
mile 1- 12:55
mile 2- 13:17
.51 miles- 13:24

I feel really good after these slower runs! I felt like I was keeping a steady pace but obviously I'm dropping off a little on the last part of the runs. @DopeyBadger, I know the goal is to run these at pace or a little slower. But, do I need to be a little closer to the EA pace? Especially for the last 1.5 miles?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I feel really good after these slower runs! I felt like I was keeping a steady pace but obviously I'm dropping off a little on the last part of the runs. @DopeyBadger, I know the goal is to run these at pace or a little slower. But, do I need to be a little closer to the EA pace? Especially for the last 1.5 miles?

Those are more like a "don't go faster than this" pace. You can absolutely go slower. And per Tim Schwartz, even going as slow as 5 minutes slower than 5k pace is still beneficial as long as the pace is still comfortable.

 

[disneygpa]

Thanks Billy! That's what I thought!! I'm looking forward to my run with Strides this weekend! Something new for me.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm looking forward to my run with Strides this weekend!

Just remember, very short in duration. Controlled, and not a sprint. And a gradual increase/decrease in pace, nothing sudden.