My FP+ Park Strategy WILL SAVE ME ALMOST $20,000!!!

[Laketravis]

In all fairness, this exchange we're having here really doesn't belong in Lakes thread about how to save $20,000. I really enjoy talking to you about it, I just would like to see you lace conversations so heavily w how you don't like it over and over. How you didn't criss cross. How you didn't waste time. If you really did accomplish more / day w Legacy, but others are accomplishing more / day w Plus, do you not care what they're doing differently? You prefer FP-... I get it... But it's not as great as we think it was, and it had its own problems. In adopting FP+, we have to be able to look past our like and dislike of the old system to really compare what the two systems are capable of. If the new system can get you on more, but you just don't like it, that's fine. I'm interested in what it can do. Not which you prefer.

I appreciate that. Because from where I'm sitting, I don't see anyone who "likes" tiering, I don't see anyone who "likes" being limited to one park, and to a lesser extent I don't see anyone who "likes" being limited to 3 and not being able to reserve the same attraction more than once. I haven't seen anyone express dislike about being able to reserve 3 FP's in advance and everyone does seems to agree that's a "like", and that once you've used those three in the park the only difference is one system used paper to provide additional FP's and the other one uses kiosks. So I think that pretty much puts all of us on par - we all "like" the same things and we all "dislike" the same things. Just for different reasons.

But rather than attack an opposing view I've put mine out there in two different threads and invited criticism and comparisons; one on how I think FP is going to save me $20K over 5 years if I were to continue to go to WDW two weeks at a time multiple times a year, and another that illustrates how I'll be able to possibly save even more, accomplish more by incorporating all Orlando has to offer, and do so in half the time by taking maximum advantage of what everyone agrees is the benefit of being able to make advance ride reservations.

So here's a thought: Rather than offer advice and make blanket generalizations in response to an existing thread where it gets buried pages deep and few benefit from it, why don't you start your own thread illustrating how much time you think was wasted versus how much time is now saved and how you believe that translates into productive results?



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[Cormoran]

I understand that. You asserted that made people spend an hour+ pulling tickets. I'm saying we never spent that amt of time going to the ride, getting a ticket, and coming back. So while I understand that for others who *did*, FP+ may be a time saver for them, time saved is not a benefit of FP+ for us because time wasted wasn't an issue under legacy.

ETA: The point being that "time saved" as a benefit of FP+ is not a universal fact, but dependent on how one toured/tours.


I've spent far more time learning FP+ than I ever spent on legacy. So your assumption that because I don't love the system (because, please remember I have ALSO said many times that I don't hate it either) means that I won't have spent as much time learning it is inaccurate.


I never said otherwise (referring to the bolded). My comment was specifically in reference to you telling LT that he is just ignoring the time wasted under legacy due to his bias for the system. I think it's fair to say there are biases on both sides of this debate. You stated unequivocally that using legacy took at least an hour, and when someone said they didn't agree your response is that they are just ignoring the facts because of their bias. How many times have you come into threads to correct people's "hyperbole" about FP+ because the hyperbole does nothing to further the discussion? I'm coming at this the same way - any productive comparison of legacy to FP+ needs to leave the hyperbole re: legacy out as well. Stating facts that return times under legacy were always "hours away" or that using legacy took at least an hour/daY just to pull tickets is hyperbole in the same way as saying that one can only ride 3 rides w/o long lines under FP+ is hyperbole. Neither is conducive to the conversation.

*This isn't to say that there weren't times when legacy return times weren't hours away. There were, and I'm not debating that. Was it the situation the vast majority of the year? I'd venture to say not. During peak times, absolutely - but I know FP+ works great for peak times, and I haven't said otherwise.



Read above. None of what you stated here was my point. And I'm sorry, but no, I don't just come into posts to talk about how I don't like FP+. TBH, if that's all you've gotten from my posts then you aren't really reading them. The only reason I discussed legacy in these last few posts was, as I said above, to address the hyperbole aspect as I don't believe hyperbole on either side helps the conversation. (And, TBH, that's usually the main reason I address legacy at all).


I'm here and posting to keep learning and figuring out how to best make FP+ work for me and my family. I don't love Disney less, and honestly again if you haven't gotten from any of my posts over the last few months that I'm adapting and changing to go work with FP+ as best I can, then you haven't been reading them.


The *only* reason I put this disclaimer in was so that I would not be accused of saying that one can't accomplish a lot under FP+. And to specifically illustrate that I DO see benefits to FP+, so that I wouldn't be accused of just hating FP+ altogether. Guess that failed. As for DLR - if I could, I would, not because of legacy but because DLR has always been my favorite park.


I'm sorry I didn't realize it wasn't appropriate to point out how FP+ does not always mean saved time, or does not always mean no criss-crossing when responding to the point that FP+ saves time because it eliminates criss-crossing. I've always said that I learned from that experience with FP+ this time, and that I will fix my mistakes in that regard on our next trip. I'd said it enough, I didn't think I needed to say it again.


You aren't getting it though. This isn't about liking legacy more, seriously. It really was about responding to the hyperbole about what the legacy experience was. That's all.


And I have always been one to readily acknowledge that. I also think we have to be willing to admit that while FP+ has it's benefits (and it does, and I have always said so) - that it ALSO has its own problems that are different from legacy's.


I am. That's what I was trying to do. I'm sorry you didn't see that, but that's what I was trying to do. In order to truly do that, as I said above, the hyperbole surrounding both systems needs to be put to rest. That is what I was responding to.

Angel Ariel, I have always enjoyed your posts because you try to share your personal park touring experiences. You always include what you like and what you don't like. I remember when you talked about criss crossing the park more with FP+ than with FP-, you didn't blame FP+. You blamed yourself and mentioned how you were going to remedy the situation on your next visit. I really appreciated your thoughtful posts and everytime I read one, I wish I could be more like you! Thanks!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Angel Ariel, I have always enjoyed your posts because you try to share your personal park touring experiences. You always include what you like and what you don't like. I remember when you talked about criss crossing the park more with FP+ than with FP-, you didn't blame FP+. You blamed yourself and mentioned how you were going to remedy the situation on your next visit. I really appreciated your thoughtful posts and everytime I read one, I wish I could be more like you! Thanks!

Thanks . I have really tried to be quite clear that I do see the advantages of fp+ and not just come across as "fp+=bad, legacy=good" because I do believe there are great advantages to fp+ (especially arrival day!). I just don't see fp+ as a panacea that fixes all of legacy's issues. It addresses some, but also creates others. Neither system is perfect, but how they affect(ed) people will vary depending on their touring styles. I just wish the extremes related to *both* systems could be left out of the discussion, as extremes by nature are not the prevailing experience.

 

[Planogirl]

I see the advantages of FP+ too but I also see the disadvantages....for us. It doesn't suit our style, that's just how it is.

I do agree that the best way to deal with it is to work with it as best as we can though. Some things you can work with and some you can't. I won't darken the gates of Epcot again for example but that's another issue. I'm not quite ready to completely give up on WDW though so I have to deal with these changes. I'm hopeful that things will improve (again for us) but there's no way to predict that. Actually, things may even get worse. But if you can, you deal.

I don't agree that there's anything wrong with stating that you don't like something though. That smacks a little too much of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "na, na, I can't hear you. I won't listen". I'm never in favor of chastising people for saying what they think.

 

[Cormoran]

I see the advantages of FP+ too but I also see the disadvantages....for us. It doesn't suit our style, that's just how it is.

I do agree that the best way to deal with it is to work with it as best as we can though. Some things you can work with and some you can't. I won't darken the gates of Epcot again for example but that's another issue. I'm not quite ready to completely give up on WDW though so I have to deal with these changes. I'm hopeful that things will improve (again for us) but there's no way to predict that. Actually, things may even get worse. But if you can, you deal.

I don't agree that there's anything wrong with stating that you don't like something though. That smacks a little too much of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "na, na, I can't hear you. I won't listen". I'm never in favor of chastising people for saying what they think.

Yup, if we want to continue visiting WDW we have to adjust our touring styles. That's my plan for April. But unlike you, we will be spending 2 days in Epcot for the flower and garden festival. However if it weren't for the festival, we would've cut back to 1 day. But I've got to ask, why will you never return to Epcot? I'm just curious, please don't feel that I'm attacking your choices.

 

[Planogirl]

Yup, if we want to continue visiting WDW we have to adjust our touring styles. That's my plan for April. But unlike you, we will be spending 2 days in Epcot for the flower and garden festival. However if it weren't for the festival, we would've cut back to 1 day. But I've got to ask, why will you never return to Epcot? I'm just curious, please don't feel that I'm attacking your choices.

I don't mind telling you. I've certainly whined enough about it elsewhere.

I am partially Norwegian and adore Norwegian culture, even Disney's version. I wrote a polite letter protesting what seems to be happening in Epcot and I received a rather obnoxious, lump it or leave it response. I decide to take the lady's advice and leave it.

 

[Cormoran]

Don't blame you. I just don't understand why they decided to replace a ride and turn the Norway pavilion into a cartoon! Couldn't they have found a different place to put the Frozen attraction?

 

[grimley1968]

I don't mind telling you. I've certainly whined enough about it elsewhere.

I am partially Norwegian and adore Norwegian culture, even Disney's version. I wrote a polite letter protesting what seems to be happening in Epcot and I received a rather obnoxious, lump it or leave it response. I decide to take the lady's advice and leave it.

I'm only about 1/1000th Norwegian (going back probably 10 generations or so ), but I loved Maelstrom and the entire Norway pavilion. I'm sure it wasn't 100% authentic, but I loved the mini-museum inside the Stave Church (gone) and the ride itself (gone). There are many other places within Disney parks, even EPCOT itself, they could have put a Frozen attraction and simply updated Maelstrom with maybe a better movie at the end, more comfortable seats in the theater, and just make sure the ride mechanisms are kept functioning. It's just the latest in Disney's overall move to replace attractions, rather than add attractions which would render this whole FP+ debate an academic one.

 

[jade1]

Then we stay at a really nice condo right outside the parks ($750 a week x 4) and eat offsite at some really great places each day ($100 x 28 days). Oh, and we'll go ahead and add some AP's to Universal while we're at it ($884) so we have something else to do each day once we've used our 3 FP's!!

Now our gross cost is $8,946 for four weeks in Orlando at WDW and USO, realizing a net savings of $3804 per year

And actually for the same price-you could stay almost another 3 weeks at $750 a week and $100 a day food, plus reserve another 84 FP+.


Our boat is still the same price (love onsite, have limited time off, financially not enough factor to not do it right )-but we can get a lot more done now with FP+, so the enjoyment has increased a lot for the same price.

 

[jade1]

But obviously if there were a massive "offisite" push, WDW would simply give more FP+ for onsite stays and/or fewer for offisite-similar to what US/IOA does. My guess is they won't have to.

 

[cakebaker]

But obviously if there were a massive "offisite" push, WDW would simply give more FP+ for onsite stays and/or fewer for offisite-similar to what US/IOA does. My guess is they won't have to.

That's a fascinating idea....If indeed LT is right, and FP+ is driving people to stay offsite, Disney will be forced to do something to try and stop the bleed. We all know FP+ isn't going anywhere, even it's detractors admit that. BUT....a decline in on site stays just can't happen. What's the answer? More incentives!!! I don't need anymore, but I'll sure take them!

So yeah, now that I think about it....this is a great idea LT and absolutely everyone should do it!

 

[Laketravis]

And actually for the same price-you could stay almost another 3 weeks at $750 a week and $100 a day food, plus reserve another 84 FP+.

Good point and notice that I allocated $750 per week for a condo but am actually able to get one for less than a third of that (a detail that seems to have escaped the attention of some skeptics).

 

[jade1]

That's a fascinating idea....If indeed LT is right, and FP+ is driving people to stay offsite, Disney will be forced to do something to try and stop the bleed. We all know FP+ isn't going anywhere, even it's detractors admit that. BUT....a decline in on site stays just can't happen. What's the answer? More incentives!!! I don't need anymore, but I'll sure take them!

So yeah, now that I think about it....this is a great idea LT and absolutely everyone should do it!

They could also do 2 FP+ AM, 2 FP+ Afternoon and 2 FP+ PM if you stay onsite.

Or 3 FP+ in one park and 3 FP+ in a second park (or 3 FP+ in one and 2 FP+ in the 2nd) if you stay onsite.

Both require more expansion than even Frozen/Pandora/TSM2/Soarin2 and a lot of Star Wars at DHS IMO-but we are talking somewhat longer term.

 

[Planogirl]

They have found a decent balance. I always said that if onsite visitors had too much more access then I wouldn't go at all and I still feel that way.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Disney doesn't need to add any incentives to get people to stay onsite. On the podcast this week, they mentioned that Disney occupancy was running at an incredible 89% which is pretty much unheard of in the hotel industry. Apparently, FP+ has not discouraged many from staying onsite yet considering they have raised prices and not offered any new incentives since FP+ began. If anything, look for Disney to add hotels to the property to accommodate more capacity.

 

[jade1]

But obviously if there were a massive "offisite" push, WDW would simply give more FP+ for onsite stays and/or fewer for offisite-similar to what US/IOA does. My guess is they won't have to.

Disney doesn't need to add any incentives to get people to stay onsite. On the podcast this week, they mentioned that Disney occupancy was running at an incredible 89% which is pretty much unheard of in the hotel industry. Apparently, FP+ has not discouraged many from staying onsite yet considering they have raised prices and not offered any new incentives since FP+ began. If anything, look for Disney to add hotels to the property to accommodate more capacity.

Yep-I will stand by the bold red.

 

[Laketravis]

Disney doesn't need to add any incentives to get people to stay onsite. On the podcast this week, they mentioned that Disney occupancy was running at an incredible 89% which is pretty much unheard of in the hotel industry. Apparently, FP+ has not discouraged many from staying onsite yet considering they have raised prices and not offered any new incentives since FP+ began. If anything, look for Disney to add hotels to the property to accommodate more capacity.

Then why do you suppose they are offering such substantial discounts thru June 15th?

I've also heard some compelling opinions that occupancy is so high because they've converted space to DVC and take renovations out of the calculation.

 

[BugsDaddy]

I said that Disney has not added incentives, key word being added. The incentives they are offering now are comparable to what they have offered in the past. I didn't say they are not offering incentives at all. If anything, those incentives are not as good as they were 8 or 9 years ago. For example, free dining used to be a great incentive when it included app and tip. Now, it is more of a break even proposition for most.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Also, while they may not include the rooms being renovated for DVC, overall with the addition of AoA, I am sure they have added capacity in recent years. I am sure the capacity added with AoA trumps the DVC renovations.

 

[Laketravis]

I said that Disney has not added incentives, key word being added. The incentives they are offering now are comparable to what they have offered in the past. I didn't say they are not offering incentives at all. If anything, those incentives are not as good as they were 8 or 9 years ago. For example, free dining used to be a great incentive when it included app and tip. Now, it is more of a break even proposition for most.

I would think that at 89% occupancy there wouldn't be a need for incentives at all. At that rate there isn't much room left for improvement as it's impossible to coordinate simultaneous check ins with check outs of varying stay durations.