My FP+ Park Strategy WILL SAVE ME ALMOST $20,000!!!

[cakebaker]

I wasn't speaking about headliner attractions. I was talking about attractions like: SW, HM, POTC. The standbys have increased for the second tier attractions. I expect waits for headliners, it doesn't impress me that these attractions have reduced waits. I am providing an opinion based on my experiences last April 2014 and other reports from posters on these boards.

A majority of the secondary ride waits are about what they always were. When they've increased, it's been minimal amounts. What is SW? It escapes me at the moment. The increase for HM is 6 minutes- POTC- less than 10. You don't ride headliners? If so, you have to look at how long you're waiting in line overall- not just on one particular ride- at least in regards to how your entire day is affected. If you don't ride headliners, I'm confident you represent a very small minority of guests.

What you claim is your experience is can't be argued factually, nor can mine. But this looks to be a pretty decently researched study and it shows your experience not to be the norm. It happens to match ours. The only thing I can attribute yours to is bad luck, but it shouldn't happen every trip.

 

[mom2rtk]

Despite what people on the Dis say, the most current independent information I can find says it isn't true and actually lines are shorter on some rides. Some of them are very popular rides like TOT and Space Mountain. When we went last year, we never noticed lines longer than they ever were either. I know this goes against the grain for a lot of dis folks- longer standby lines helps bolster their reasoning for not liking fp+, but it may just not be factual.

Touring plans has looked at it twice and times are actually better in the later study. I'd love to see any factual reports dated later that show a different outcome.

http://blog.touringplans.com/2014/04/03/how-fastpass-plus-affects-your-wait-update

But if the lines are shorter on the 3 headliners you get to schedule, but you have to use standby for your next 3 headliners (when you could have pulled fastpasses before) how do you think your total time in line compares?

 

[cakebaker]

But if the lines are shorter on the 3 headliners you get to schedule, but you have to use standby for your next 3 headliners (when you could have pulled fastpasses before) how do you think your total time in line compares?

That's when decent planning comes into effect. I wouldn't schedule my fp+ headliners first, then get in standby lines for headliners to start with. But, if you only visit the MK once during your trip and you don't want to be at park opening and you don't want to make use of emh's and you don't want to stay until later in the evening...I'm guessing that you're going to stand in line longer than you did with legacy. That's an awful lot of if's and not very representative of what most people are willing to do to make fp+ work for them I would think.
We schedule headliners out over a matter of a couple of days and get them all in with FP+ or make use of any of the things that lessen waits. So in general, it doesn't increase our total time in line at all.

 

[mom2rtk]

That's when decent planning comes into effect. I wouldn't schedule my fp+ headliners first, then get in standby lines for headliners to start with. But, if you only visit the MK once during your trip and you don't want to be at park opening and you don't want to make use of emh's and you don't want to stay until later in the evening...I'm guessing that you're going to stand in line longer than you did with legacy. That's an awful lot of if's and not very representative of what most people are willing to do to make fp+ work for them I would think.
We schedule headliners out over a matter of a couple of days and get them all in with FP+ or make use of any of the things that lessen waits. So in general, it doesn't increase our total time in line at all.

The order of the FPs doesn't matter. I'm looking purely at time waiting in line in a given day. If I could previously use FP on 6 headliners in a day, and now I must use standby for 3 of those rides, my total time in line is substantially longer.

I put that out there because so many people keep quoting that Touring Plans piece saying that headliner ride wait times have gone slightly down. So if you added your wait time on what you get to do with FP+ compared with what you would wait if you did it with legacy FP, the wait time differences might be negligible. But since FP+ forces you into more headliner standby lines (because access to FP+ for headliners after your first 3 is sketchy at best) your total wait time is much higher.

The real comparison needs to be to take what you used to do with legacy FP and compare it with the wait time it would now take under FP+ with more rides being via standby.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Whether or not the increase in sb times for rides like hm/potc is a "big deal" will depend on each person, and when they normally visited, and what they are used to those lines being. It is subjective.

The *fact* that SB lines for those rides *have* increased is not subjective. The chart in the touring plans blog confirms that sb waits have increased.

And that was from April 2014. I remember seeing a post from josh at easywdw recently saying that the increases at rides like potc were continuing still aa fp+ is more used. I don't have the link, but it was referenced in posts here not too long ago.

To be clear, I'm not saying "ZOMG sb lines are SO LONG for everything now.". I'm saying that TP's chart demonstrates that there have in fact been increases for some rides, esp. at MK. But whether or not that increase is significant to a person is subjective.

 

[cakebaker]

It wasn't my intent to drag this thread into a debate over wait times- just thought the data was interesting. I'll save any other thoughts I have about it for another thread, I've pulled this one off topic enough.

 

[Cormoran]

Cormoran said "My major issue is with MK. There are so many rides that we love that are now FP+ and now the SB lines are longer."

I read that and see that she's talking specifically about MK rides that did not have legacy FP, but do now have FP+. Not referencing *all* rides at all.

So then I go and read the blog linked in the next post. I look at the chart with average changes in SB line times, and there are 4 rides highlighted in Green to show that their wait times have gone down measureably since FP+ - the only 2 MK attractions there are Space Mtn and Winnie the Pooh - neither of which Cormoran was referencing, as they both had legacy FP.

Then there are quite a few more rides in white (more in this group than either of the others) - which TP says later is to show that there's such a minimal change in SB time that they're basically considering those rides SBs to not have changed at all. The MK rides in that group are Buzz, Peter Pan and BTMRR - again, all rides that had legacy, so not what Cormoran was referencing.

Then there are 7 rides highlighted in yellow to show measureable increases in SB wait times. MK rides on this list include Jungle Cruise, Pirates and Haunted Mansion. Of that group only JC had legacy, so that leaves Pirates and HM on that list *as rides that fit not having legacy FP* - and the chart supports that wait times have gone up for them.

The chart doesn't mention quite a few rides that have FP+ now (like IASW, Aladdin carpets, mad tea party, etc) - so no conclusion can be drawn either way on those rides.

I don't see where at all Cormoran stated she was talking about FP+ as a whole/in general.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to, we are not the type of visitors who ever repeatedly rode headliners. We ride them once per day and spend most of our time on the secondary attractions. When we were there last April, the SB lines for these attractions were much longer than on previous visits, because these rides now have FP+. This is where I see the diminished value of FP+.

 

[MrInfinity]

A majority of the secondary ride waits are about what they always were. When they've increased, it's been minimal amounts. What is SW? It escapes me at the moment. The increase for HM is 6 minutes- POTC- less than 10. You don't ride headliners? If so, you have to look at how long you're waiting in line overall- not just on one particular ride- at least in regards to how your entire day is affected. If you don't ride headliners, I'm confident you represent a very small minority of guests.

What you claim is your experience is can't be argued factually, nor can mine. But this looks to be a pretty decently researched study and it shows your experience not to be the norm. It happens to match ours. The only thing I can attribute yours to is bad luck, but it shouldn't happen every trip.

SW=Small World, but also Star Wars, thus IASW is a more common abbreviation for It's A Small World

Bad luck could possibly have been it. Or, getting in a line when it was long. We found on our trip, the line to Small World was definitely "variable". Sometimes out to the awning where you enter, other times the two main straightaways that you walk thru would be clear and you walk in all the way up to the final turn toward the docks. This is more or less what we found in 2010 and 2012 as well. If we saw it was 30 min, maybe we ride, maybe not. If we saw it was short, we were more likely to ride.

POTC and HM lines were about the same as well. The cool thing there, is that we found TONS of availability for both such rides via FP+. So, even tho in 2010, 2012 (FP-) the line might have been 30 min plus or minus, and in 2014 it was about the same, in 2014, every time we wanted to ride it, we either went on when the line was short, or just pulled a FP+ to it. It was pretty cool. Moderately busy time, too.

All up, in a week of visiting, and 3 days at the MK, there is not a single time we waited 30 min for IASW, POTC, or HM. And we rode these a lot!

And yes you have to not look at how much you're waiting in line overall... because with FP-, it consumed over an hour out of ones' day just pulling tickets, and walking to a ride that extra time that was required. Even if you can get to a ride, pull a ticket, then back to where you wanted to be in 5-10 min, you can clearly see that repeating this 5, 7, 12, or however many times one pulled a ticket adds up. People consistently ignore this massive amount of time saved not going up to each ride they wish to ride, twice, to ride it once. It's really hard to compare apples to apples in terms of waits, cuz FP+ cuts lots of time out of your days in other ways.

 

[Cormoran]

We schedule headliners out over a matter of a couple of days and get them all in with FP+ or make use of any of the things that lessen waits. So in general, it doesn't increase our total time in line at all.

So you are increasing your park days for what we once would've been able to accomplish in 1 day? That may be a great strategy for you, but I cannot afford to be away from work for an extended period of time. I really don't know how unique my experiences are, nor do you.

 

[Laketravis]

And yes you have to not look at how much you're waiting in line overall... because with FP-, it consumed over an hour out of ones' day just pulling tickets, and walking to a ride that extra time that was required. Even if you can get to a ride, pull a ticket, then back to where you wanted to be in 5-10 min, you can clearly see that repeating this 5, 7, 12, or however many times one pulled a ticket adds up. People consistently ignore this massive amount of time saved not going up to each ride they wish to ride, twice, to ride it once. It's really hard to compare apples to apples in terms of waits, cuz FP+ cuts lots of time out of your days in other ways.

That's preposterous. We would always pull an FP before getting in the SB line or after exiting the ride, an activity that took less than 5 minutes. And "walking to a ride" is required whether you have an FP or get in standby.

So unless you are suggesting that everyone regularly pulled 12 FP's a day, that's simply a gross generalization.

 

[Cormoran]

All up, in a week of visiting, and 3 days at the MK, there is not a single time we waited 30 min for IASW, POTC, or HM. And we rode these a lot!

First of all, my family will not wait for 30 minutes for POTC, HM, or IASW, despite my pleas. The max I can convince people to wait is 20 minutes. Before all of these rides became FP+ attractions, we were able to do this. Now, no way. So again, I will not set my family up for failure by staying all day at the parks. Instead, we will arrive late in the afternoon and stay until closing. The rest of our day will be spent doing other things, that don't involve 30 minute SB lines.

 

[cakebaker]

So you are increasing your park days for what we once would've been able to accomplish in 1 day? That may be a great strategy for you, but I cannot afford to be away from work for an extended period of time. I really don't know how unique my experiences are, nor do you.

Absolutely not increasing our stays at all. In fact our last 2 trips were the shortest trips we've ever taken, 4 days each. Why would I need to increase the length of my trip to visit a park more than once?

 

[wisblue]

That's preposterous. We would always pull an FP before getting in the SB line or after exiting the ride, an activity that took less than 5 minutes. And "walking to a ride" is required whether you have an FP or get in standby.

Interesting. I thought you have said that you don't like repetition, but if you always got FPs that way that means you were only getting FPs to get multiple rides at the same attraction.

For those of us who really don't repeat rides very often on the same day, getting a FP did require 2 trips to the attraction.

 

[MrInfinity]

For those of us who really don't repeat rides very often on the same day, getting a FP did require 2 trips to the attraction.

Exactly. Even if you're at the ride and therefore don't have to go to it, you still had to get your ticket, leave, and then come back later. This is substantial time, and it does add up... in terms of time, and distance walked at a park.

 

[Laketravis]

For those of us who really don't repeat rides very often on the same day, getting a FP did require 2 trips to the attraction.

Exactly. Even if you're at the ride and therefore don't have to go to it, you still had to get your ticket, leave, and then come back later..

Sounds like the description of a poor touring strategy rather than support for the generalization that everybody spent an hour each day getting their FP's.

 

[Cormoran]

Absolutely not increasing our stays at all. In fact our last 2 trips were the shortest trips we've ever taken, 4 days each. Why would I need to increase the length of my trip to visit a park more than once?

Oh sorry, we don't get park hoppers. So for us, we would have to increase the amount of days we visit, if we wanted to experience all of the tiered attractions using FP+

 

[SmithSmith]

Oh sorry, we don't get park hoppers. So for us, we would have to increase the amount of days we visit, if we wanted to experience all of the tiered attractions using FP+

I don't think PHs are necessary under FP+. Ever consider riding TT/RNR standby during a low wait time like RD or at closing, then FP Soarin/TSMM?

 

[wisblue]

Sounds like the description of a poor touring strategy rather than support for the generalization that everybody spent an hour each day getting their FP's.

I never said that everybody spent an hour getting FPs.

And I don't see why declining to do the same ride twice is a poor touring strategy. To me, a poor touring strategy is one in which you only do 3 rides in a day without waiting in long lines.

Our general approach to theme parks (not just WDW) is to do as many major attractions as possible ONCE with short lines. Using MK as the example, that might mean starting at Space Mountain, then doing Buzz, and looping around the park once, hitting attractions like PP, HM, Splash, BTMRR, POC, and JC. After that, we can move on to less popular attractions where lines don't build up as fast. Our biggest challenge in deciding whether to get a FP for something was deciding whether it would be better to wait in a 10-20 minute line or get the FP and come back later. Once those return times got to be 2 and 3 hours out, there would be a question about whether we would even still be in the park to use the FP.

I've heard people say that they would get a FP and do other things in the area until the return time came up. But if the return time for something like one of the mountains ia 3 hours out, there often aren't that many things to do nearby for that much time.

 

[Laketravis]

Our biggest challenge in deciding whether to get a FP for something was deciding whether it would be better to wait in a 10-20 minute line or get the FP and come back later. Once those return times got to be 2 and 3 hours out, there would be a question about whether we would even still be in the park to use the FP..

So how do you resolve that challenge now when you have to view your choices from a kiosk? Seems like more effort is required now to derive the same information.

 

[wisblue]

So how do you resolve that challenge now when you have to view your choices from a kiosk? Seems like more effort is required now to derive the same information.

.

When I can make FP reservations in advance I make them for later in the day. That way I don't have to worry about what might or might not be available for 4th FPs. It also means that we can decide the night before where to start the next morning. That eliminates the problem that some people have about planning every minute of the day. Essentially, we just show up in the morning and go from there, just like we always have. The plans don't kick in until 8-10 hours later, and if we decide we want to do something different, we just do it. We control those plans, they don't control us.

On our trips in August and November when we couldn't make FP reservations in advance, we had an idea what we wanted and got the FPs when we got to the park. I found it a lot easier to get 3 FPs for things we wanted at times we selected in one stop than having to pick them up one at a time an hour or two apart in different locations, never knowing what the return times would be until we got to the attractions.