my first grader's pants were pulled down today--Update page 6

[alexandria674]

No, neither of my girls (they're twins) are in J***'s class. They honored that request. I split my own girls up this year; the teacher--and probably their classmates--could not tell them apart. I asked for them to be separated from this girl and they were. However, all the first grade classes have lunch and recess together, so that's when they see her now. I have talked to the principal and will give him a chance to do something on Monday. I'll give an update after I hear from him.

Ah, sorry just read that now. I was going to ask, does this little girl bully others aso?

 

[surfgirl]

OP,

I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this little hellion and will have to for the next 11 years of school : (

I would:

- document it all in a letter to the teacher and the principal. Hand deliver on Monday.
- Ask, in the letter, what the consequences will be and that you would liked to be informed of the consequences (they may not be able to do this due to privacy laws.)
- Ask that this incident be documented in her file.
- Ask what the school's policy is towards bullying. Does this qualify ? If not, you would like to see this documented as an example of bullying.
- Remind them that you had requested not to be in the same homeroom as this little girl and you are asking now for that to be honored for next year. Ask, in writing, again at the end of the summer.
- Ask for their responses in writing so that the plan is clearly documented.

I WOULD NOT:
- call her mom.
=> DON'T DO IT!
- You make it personal and get her ticked at you. Don't get involved with making it personal. It isn't your job to parent this hellion, it is your job to protect your daughter. Our school hates if people call the other parents because all of a sudden emotions become involved.

Ask your DH to proof read it. Try to stick to the facts, ma'am. They are damn'ing enough. Be specific about the behaviors and away from the 'she's a bad seed' (even though she is).

good luck and please update us.

 

[horseshowmom]

So now being pantsed is sexual harassment This happened many a time growing up, it was just something that kids did. Someone pantsed someone else at or end of year softball party a month ago. When I was in school it was mostly a boy thing. It would get a scolding and nothing more.

As far as the "pantsing", I think it is different from regular bullying. Exposing someone else is just WRONG. It's bad enough to expose yourself, you know? If we were talking about 3-4 year olds, I would feel a little differently, but a 6-7 year old is old enough to know what he/she is doing.
Marsha

WOW! I can't believe how many people here I saying this happened all the time when they were growing up. REALLY? Kids had their pants pulled down, underwear and all??

I don't know what rock I have been living under all these years, but I have never heard of anything like that happening in the schools that I went to, and I definitley was never a witness to it.

Same here! I've spent the last 24 years working in schools, and I've never heard the term nor have I ever seen or heard of it happening with one exception - that was a boy in a different school who was very much a juvenile delinquent (and went on to be convicted of 2 felonies starting at age 17 and is awaiting trial on a 3rd at age 30 - not to say that everybody who does this is a criminal but just giving background on the one case I know of).

I can guarantee that if I had ever witnessed or been informed of anything like that as a teacher, that kid would have been punished. That is extremely inappropriate behavior. It was inappropriate when I was going through school (graduated in 1977), and it's still inappropriate.

I just had to butt in here. I have 20 kids in my class and if I turn around to tell one not to run(or pinch, yell, hit, burp obnoxiously), it is very easy to miss something like this. Children like this one will watch and wait for adults to be dealing with something else and then they will strike. Parents of more than 2 children know how fast something happens, one is crying and you have no idea what happened. Imagine that times 10!
Marsha

Or times 15!

OP here--I totally agree. I teach also and I have lunch duty 3 days a week with ONE other adult. There are 180 kids. It's VERY easy to miss something. This incident happened when they were lining up to go to recess. She said one teacher was in the front of the line and one teacher was in the back of the line--they were somewhere in the middle. There are probably around 150 kids. I don't blame the teachers at all. And for everyone that is going to say there needs to be more supervision, where would that come from???? That would cost more money, and in tough economic times, most buildings are at the minimum level (or less) staff they can have to function. There are no extra people around to pick up another duty--at least there's not in my school and I teach in a pretty wealthy community.

I agree with you completely. Things can definitely happen quickly. The most important thing is how it's handled once it does come to light.

I don't expect suspension at all. I'm not sure what I want--I guess I want her spoken to, I want her mother called, and I don't want my 2 anywhere near her at all during the day.

Considering the background this child has, suspension may be warranted. At some point, she's going to have to learn to control her behavior. It's not reasonable to expect everybody who comes in contact with her to "just deal with it".

I did leave a voice mail for my daughter's teacher. Still not sure if I'm going to call mom--definitely not tonight. I might take my cue from the school. If they call her, I won't need to, but if they don't, I will. This is a mom who's in way over her head in life, so I'm not sure what she'd even do.

This is the only point I disagree with you on. I understand the desire to talk to the mother, but it would probably be better for school personnel to do it (even it you have to "encourage" them to do so ). .

Good luck!

 

[Shelton123]

OK honestly, when I first read the title, I was just thinking "this is just typical first grade behavior, this person is probably overreacting" then I read underwear pulled down too I was thinking "OK, that's a little strange..." then when I read that the child was BITING people I was just like "OK this person is UNDERREACTING!"

That child needs to be put in interlude. It's not a bad thing, just true. It turned my sister around a lot. In 1st grade, my sister was throwing chairs and stuff :O But she didn't get in trouble at school at all last year, and got out of interlude almost completely this year, and hasn't done ANYTHING yet. Not even gotten a "talking to" nothing. It will benefit, your child, the child that pulled down the pants, everyone else in the class, everyone in future classes she will be in, the teachers, her parents... it works wonders

Now, I don't know if you can do anything about suggesting interlude for another child, I don't think that will work, and I don't know if your school system has an interlude program, but I'm sure if it does you could talk to the other girl's parents, and they might take that advice. Anyone else agree?

I would call her mom FRIENDLY-LY! Not like "I AM OUTRAGED AT WHAT YOUR CHILD DID!!!111!!!" because that's acting like it's the parents fault. I mean, come on, how many parents think to tell there kids not to pull down people's pants :rofl

But more like "(of course say your name and stuff) I would like to let you know that your child pulled down my child's pants and we're both very upset about it."

The mom will probably say something back like "Woah! I apologize so much! I didn't know she would do something like that. I'll make sure it doesn't happen again!"

But if you yell at her, that's just going to either A) Make her feel defeated and unwilling to solve the problem or B) get angry at you and make this whole thing your child's fault. It's not your child's fault, and if A) happens, the problem won't get solved... I mean, I'm just a 9th grader, so I don't know how well this advice will work, or if this means anything, but anyways, good luck to whatever you DO do to get this problem solved. It will probably work! Mother's intuition is almost always accurate, and is ALWAYS accurate in a situation like this

 

[PinkRhombus]

I'd chalk this up with making kids wear helmets every time they ride their bike, being over protective.
.

Well...sometime you should sit with your child in ICU for 5 days while they have multiple CT scans of their head after getting a concussion from falling down some steps and see if you think that wearing helmets are being over protective.


To the OP: If your daugther is moved past it, you're doing something right. But I would still be all over that school though for dealing with that kids behavior.

 

[mjkacmom]

Being pantsed is sexual harrasment by any definition. If someone did this to you at your place of work you would no doubt have a sexual harrassment case. Just because it was done to a child by a child does not make it any less of an issue.

The girl was publicly completely revealed below the waist by force. It is humiliating and should not be discounted because it was a child, in fact I would make more of a deal because it is a child who cannot possibly have the ability to process what happened in a healthy way. This little girl has lost some dignity and will be fearful at school for a very long time.

I am amazed that people think having you pants pulled down in front of others is not sexual harrasment.

I think pulling down an older child's or adult's pants would be sexual harrassment, but 6 year olds don't think in a sexual manner. My 6 and 8 year old are naked all of the time around here! However, judging from my ds11 and dd13, in a few years, that will change (I haven't seen them naked in years!). I think it's wrong, yes, and the child should be punished. I just don't think there was anything sexual about it.

 

[paintnolish]

I feel horrible for your dd! Poor thing! Like some pps have said, de-pantsing, while not nice, really is pretty common. It always looks funny when it happens on cartoons or tv, right? As far as the underwear, there is no way to predict it would come down with the pants. If this was an isolated incident, I would expect a punishment, then move on. However, given the other circumstances you described, I think this inicident is just indicative of other problems. I hope the school does something to correct this!

 

[FireDancer]

I guess I just grew up with less mature kids. I will concede that it is pretty rare that a pantsing ends up with any nudity. It is usually just underwear but accidents happen. I think in all my years of immaturity I have seen one time that public nudity was the result. I’m surprised so many people never heard of it though, I spend a lot of time in locker rooms growing up and it was pretty prevalent. For what it’s worth I just asked a 15 year old I know who plays football and baseball if it still happens and he said it is till pretty common in the locker room. Maybe it’s a NE Ohio Thing.

Growing up everyone was the butt of the joke from time to time, we refer to it now as “being in the barrel”. From time to time it is everyone’s turn in the barrel. My friends and I still rib each other about a lot of stuff. One the best things I learned when I was younger is to laugh at yourself. If you are willing to laugh at yourself, which I am more than able to do, stuff just doesn’t get to you. We all have something that is ridiculed when we are young. For me it was being short, for others it was being tall or fat or having freckles or red hair. One of the few positive things my dad taught me was that I am short. I can either have fun with it and be willing to laugh at myself or throw myself under the bus or have a long and painful life. I chose the former and no short jokes really bother me, I will usually join on in with he self deprecating humor. I don't have scars on my ego because I was occasionally made fun of, if anything I have thicker skin.

I wouldn’t tell anyone else how to raise their kids. Make them wear helmets if you want, I think it is a bit over protective. Of course some kids will get hurt, that is the nature of statistics, but I am not really a fear mongering kind of person, I’m pretty liberal when it comes to someone’s choice in how they live and raise their children.

 

[dismom2]

OP: I would be upset, and make sure the school followed up on this matter. Some things like this (exposing a little girls private parts) can stick with a child for a long time. Possibly, when she goes back to school, some kids might tease her about seeing her naked. My DD actually had kids tease her about her undergarment when they were accidentally exposed (thanks to jeans being made low-rider style now!), so I had to buy her a different style (of undergarment) that were not as comfortable on her, just so they don't show when she would play/bend over/shirt rises a little, etc... this did bother her, and made her cry and be embarressed (this wasn't the fault of anyone else, so I didn't mention it to the school--I just remember how the teasing made her feel). So, I can only imagine if someone pulled her pants down on purpose. I'm glad your DD is OK with is for now, but wait and see if some kids start teasing her when she goes back to school---she might not be so OK with it anymore. That bully obviously needs more consequenses for her actions or she'll continue to harrass other kids.

 

[sunnyday123]

I started reading this thread at the start, and didn't post because my first thought was, "I'd be ripping the doors off that school"-and I know things like this shouldn't be handled with emotions.

OP, I think you are handling this great, much better than I would. I do think this child needs to be suspended, and something needs to be done long term about her behavior.

However, I'm still thinking I'd be ripping the doors off the hinges at that school, and I'd still be rip-roaring mad over this. I'd probably also have taught DD how to throw a punch this weekend.

Bullies need to be dealt with in a serious manner. Every school shooting has been started by someone who was picked on forever, and no one did anything about it. I remember ( and high school was 100 years ago) the kids that got bullied in school, and I'm sure it affects them to this day. I was super shy in school, and this one guy who played football called me weird. I still hold that against him, and there's no good reason to. What that kid was humiliating, and I'd be making sure it didn't happen again.

 

[MouseketeerOvaHere]

Same here! I've spent the last 24 years working in schools, and I've never heard the term nor have I ever seen or heard of it happening

It usually occurs in locker room's or in gym class. I've only seen it done when the presence of teacher's are nonexistent or very limited because if the depantser was ever caught, it was usually followed with detention and a call to the parents. The depantser usually grabs around the knees and pulls down, usually only getting the pants while the underwear remain. That along with getting shoved in lockers was the prank of choice when I was in school.

 

[Ilike2Lurk]

I think pulling down an older child's or adult's pants would be sexual harrassment, but 6 year olds don't think in a sexual manner. My 6 and 8 year old are naked all of the time around here!

Do they pull off each other's clothing? I don't get how your 6 & 8 year old being "naked all of the time" scared1 pertains to the OP's daughter having her pants AND underwear pulled down at school

I think any person (child or not) who thinks it is ok to pull off an article of clothing of another person is NOT being brought up correctly at home. It is WRONG. No excuses.

 

[Cinderella94]

Do they pull off each other's clothing? I don't get how your 6 & 8 year old being "naked all of the time" scared1 pertains to the OP's daughter having her pants AND underwear pulled down at school

I think any person (child or not) who thinks it is ok to pull off an article of clothing of another person is NOT being brought up correctly at home. It is WRONG. No excuses.

 

[mjkacmom]

Do they pull off each other's clothing? I don't get how your 6 & 8 year old being "naked all of the time" scared1 pertains to the OP's daughter having her pants AND underwear pulled down at school

I think any person (child or not) who thinks it is ok to pull off an article of clothing of another person is NOT being brought up correctly at home. It is WRONG. No excuses.

My point was that children don't see being naked as being SEXUAL - it is certainly wrong to pull off another persons clothing, but I don't think the child should be brought up on sexual harassment charges, as some PP think should happen. And when I say being naked all the time, they change in front of each other, and during the summer, change frequently, since they swim on a daily basis. My point is that children are a lot less modest at this age, and aren't having sexual thoughts about their bodies.

 

[castleview]

This kid would have been suspended at my kid's school. If it were my child it happened to (maybe even not), I would do everything to make sure this kid is removed from her class and never left unattended in the school if she's even allowed back in. I don't care what her baggage is, if it's effecting other kids - any sympathy I have, goes out the window.

 

[bookgirl]

I guess I just grew up with less mature kids. I will concede that it is pretty rare that a pantsing ends up with any nudity. It is usually just underwear but accidents happen. I think in all my years of immaturity I have seen one time that public nudity was the result. I’m surprised so many people never heard of it though, I spend a lot of time in locker rooms growing up and it was pretty prevalent. For what it’s worth I just asked a 15 year old I know who plays football and baseball if it still happens and he said it is till pretty common in the locker room. Maybe it’s a NE Ohio Thing.

Growing up everyone was the butt of the joke from time to time, we refer to it now as “being in the barrel”. From time to time it is everyone’s turn in the barrel. My friends and I still rib each other about a lot of stuff. One the best things I learned when I was younger is to laugh at yourself. If you are willing to laugh at yourself, which I am more than able to do, stuff just doesn’t get to you. We all have something that is ridiculed when we are young. For me it was being short, for others it was being tall or fat or having freckles or red hair. One of the few positive things my dad taught me was that I am short. I can either have fun with it and be willing to laugh at myself or throw myself under the bus or have a long and painful life. I chose the former and no short jokes really bother me, I will usually join on in with he self deprecating humor. I don't have scars on my ego because I was occasionally made fun of, if anything I have thicker skin.

I wouldn’t tell anyone else how to raise their kids. Make them wear helmets if you want, I think it is a bit over protective. Of course some kids will get hurt, that is the nature of statistics, but I am not really a fear mongering kind of person, I’m pretty liberal when it comes to someone’s choice in how they live and raise their children.

A lot of that will change when it is YOUR 6 year old little girl. I havent' met a father yet who would laugh off his daughter naked in public by someone elses actions.

 

[jodifla]

I think pulling down an older child's or adult's pants would be sexual harrassment, but 6 year olds don't think in a sexual manner. My 6 and 8 year old are naked all of the time around here! However, judging from my ds11 and dd13, in a few years, that will change (I haven't seen them naked in years!). I think it's wrong, yes, and the child should be punished. I just don't think there was anything sexual about it.

Exactly. The rush to put adult labels on chldren's behaviours on this board is just ridiculous.

My son was "pantsed" as he was getting off the bus last year. He has a severe speech delay and was unable to say what happened or who did it. No adult saw it and no child came forward to say what had happened.

My DS didn't seem bothered by it or frightened, so we certainly didn't make a big deal about it. We adults kept an eye on the situation. It did not happen again.

It was bullying, yes. Sexual harassment, no.

 

[mickeyboat]

OP - Give the school a chance to take care of the situation. They probably have protocols in place to handle this sort of thing. I would also not call it sexual harassment, but it is very problematic, and needs to be addressed.

Don't be so sure that you will hear every detail of the school's plan, though. Confidentiality rules exist that may bar you from hearing exactly what counseling / punishment / whatever will happen.

Don't call the other mother. If you were friendly with her, you might talk about it. But if she is essentially a stranger, you are just creating a conflict you don't need. Your DD is o.k. Take your cues from her.

As for being over-protective, you are certainly not being over-protective in this situation. The school needs to be notified, and it needs to act. Period.

Fire Dancer - I know you won't believe what I am going to say next. I didn't believe it before I had kids, either. But your perspective about life changes once you have a child of your own. My kids do all sorts of unsafe activities. They climb trees and on the rocks at the ocean. They have their own four-wheelers and ride scooters. They go hunting in the woods with DH. They ski, skate and slide during the winter.

But they wear their helmets when they ride their bikes (also when they ski, skate, ride four-wheelers or slide). It's a no-brainer. They don't / can't / I won't allow them to live in a bubble. But a helmet is no big deal, and I will not allow them to become a statistic from something a helmet could have prevented. They started wearing them as children on their trikes, and it's just part of bike riding now. They don't ever complain about it.

When I was growing up, seat belt use was optional. I remember taking a 12 hour car ride with my two brothers in a small car. We made a little bed for my 3 year old brother in the foot space of the back seat. We didn't think twice. I would be willing to bet your parents did not allow you to ride in a car unrestrained, and I would be willing to bet that you never thought twice about it. It's just something you did, and probably continue to do. We didn't know better back then, but we do now.

 

[SC Minnie]

This happened to DD15 when she was in kindergarten. The culprit was a boy. It happened during class time and the teacher either saw it or was told about it as soon as happened. The teacher called me that afternoon and told me. She said she also talked to the boys parents. I talked to DD that evening but didn't make a huge deal about it- asked her what happened, how she felt about it etc.

The boy still goes to school with DD. She mentioned his name several months ago and I asked her if she remember this incident. She looked at me like I was crazy and said no. She didn't believe me when I told her it happened.


OP, sounds like you are dealing with a bully and she needs to be treated as such. I have noticed that schools tend to talk tough about 0 tolerance on bullying but their actions do not always back it up. I hope you can get some satisfaction from the school.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Hey OP. Just checking back to see if you've heard from school yet. Hoping they are working on a resolution that both you and your daughter are comfortable with.