My daughter is being sent home for wearing a USA headband to school today!!!!

[Grog]

But then why was her headband singled out? I think that is the most important question. IMHO it sounds like a teacher who woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or had an argument with a spouse that moring and decided to take it out on someone they didn't think would fight back (probably not consciously, but maybe the patriotic outfit was the last straw for that teacher that morning).

Rules are OK, but they need to be applied evenly. I applaud TeresaNJ's DD for refusing to be a doormat. The teacher could have handled this better.

 

[ckr]

No disrespect intended, but you need to go back and read this thread again. It wasn't even a teacher that reported her, according to the daughter. As she entered the school, the Asst Principal saw a violation of the dress code and made the valid request for the teenager to remove it. No mention has been made that there were others with her also wearing headbands, so I'm not seeing the "she was singled out" aspect.

 

[Grog]

the Asst Principal

MY apologies. I wrote "teacher" because I thought everyone would know what I was talking about. I consdered it a question of symantecs and never thought it would be an issue.

No mention has been made that there were others with her also wearing headbands

Her friend was wearing a similar outfit. Accordind to the original post:

They bought red shirts and decorated them with stars and red, white and blue ribbons, and also made pretty head bands to wear in their hair.

 

[ckr]

I thought you hadn't read the entire thread. My apologies.

I guess my question would have to be were her friends WITH HER at the time she entered the school and was given the directive by the Asst Principal. If indeed there were others entering the school at that time and place wearing headbands (with or without USA) that were not also given the directive, I'd agree that she was singled out. However, I did not get that impression. Perhaps the OP will clear that up. But to ASSUME that they were and then claim that she was singled out....

 

[Pin Wizard]

How RIDICULOUS can they be? I'm one for keeping a file. Any time there's been a problem with something at school, I e-mail the guidance counselor (who is the designated person to handle problems.) Hopefully, she's smart enough to know that I'm keeping a hard copy of what I e-mail her. I can't believe a school would make them stop wearing something in support of our country! Gee, is there someone in Washington who would like to know this stuff?

 

[disfanatiks]

While I whole heartedly agree that yesterday, there should have been an exception made on September 11. I do not believe that disobeying an authority figure was appropriate. And as stated before she really was more concerned with how her hair would look without the headband.

Openly defying the Asst Principal and going on to class as if the request had not been made, is IMO the WORST thing that could've happened.

I must say that regardless of the reason, I agree with ckr on this.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by browneyes
They had at my kids' school that the kids had to keep their shirts tucked in. Evidentally whomever thought of that rule didn't have to watch 15-20 Pre-K or Kindergarteners! The teacher wouldn't be able to teach because of the constant reminders to tuck in their shirts

DS's school does this also. And they'll even get detention if their shirt is out. Why don't they focus on more important things?

 

[TeresaNJ]

While I usually wholeheartedly agree that my daughter Lauren should respect her elders whomever they may be, and that she should absolutely follow all her school's rules, this time I have to disagree. The student handbook states that no "headgear" may be worn. I do not consider headbands that are used specifically to hold hair back off the face "headgear". She has worn headbands since kindergarten and no one has ever said a word to her. When the asst. vp told Lauren to take her headband off and she said no, I would have preferred that she ask the asst. vp if they could discuss it in private. Be that as it may, when Lauren was called down to the office and the asst. vp told her again to take it off, Lauren said no and that there were many girls who had headbands on that day also. The asst. vp said, "well, you're the one who got caught".

Now, saying that, I still maintain that headbands are NOT headgear. If they made my daughter take her headband off, then I was going to go to the school and insist that every girl be evaluated for barrettes, hairpins, ribbons, weaves, braids with beads, etc., and if all the girls were made to take them off, out or whatever, then I would have agreed that Lauren should have been made to take her headband off also. That was not the case. Lauren was absolutely singled out, why, I don't know, but I plan to find out.

Yes, being 16, she was concerned with how her hair would look without the headband, but she was also VERY disappointed that after all the effort she put into her 9-11 remembrance outfit she was being chastised and made to feel like she had done something wrong.

Remember, the asst. vp told me not 15 minutes later that everything was okay and Lauren could wear her headband. She also told Lauren to go tell all her friends that they could now wear their headbands too. So was there a rule or wasn't there? Who actually was in the wrong here. Plus, the asst. vp LIED to me when she told me a teacher had reported Lauren. She never once indicated that it was her who told Lauren to take the headband off. She told me she was following up on the information provided to her by another teacher. Something stinks here.

Also, disfanatiks, how are you so sure Lauren was more concerned about how her hair would look, than in the principle of being made to take a headband off commemorating the USA and 9-11? If you were present and then made that statement, then I would give what you say more credibility.

 

[TeresaNJ]

Also, I would like to point out that Lauren also did not consider headbands to be "headgear", and considering that no teacher ever pointed out to her that it was, she did not think she was breaking any rules during the first seven days of school that she wore her headbands.

 

[TeresaNJ]

Sorry, I had to bump this, as for some reason it wasn't moving up with my posts.

 

[Disney Doll]

And I thought that nurses took a lot of flak. Wow!

 

[TeresaNJ]

That's funny that you should say that Disney Doll, as I am a nurse!!

 

[Fishbone†]

I'm still waiting to see the pictures.

 

[Jeff in BigD]

My friend had a t-shirt that read:
"Welcome to school...leave your common sense & logic at the front door."

 

[DocRafiki]

But then why was her headband singled out? I think that is the most important question.

Well it sounds like it was pretty flashy. If she had worn colors in the past that didn't attract attention, it would make sense that they didn't stop her before.


After reading some of these replies, I have to agree that defying the VP is nothing to brag about. People need to learn to obey rules even if they think they're silly. There isn't always someone around to explain the importance of the rule. I see this way too commonly in grown adults -- it's a shame they were taught that they know better than everyone else.

 

[ckr]

And again, not flaming, but offering a different perspective.

1.) TNJ states: "Lauren was absolutely singled out, why, I don't know, but I plan to find out." but also relays the AVP's response to her DD had been "well, you're the one who got caught".

It is apparent by the DD having to inform the AVP of other girls wearing similar headgear (I'll address that next) she was not singled out as "The girl with the USA headband, you know next to the girls with the teal, blue, black and brown ones." She was the girl with a headband in a group of students without headbands. She was (in the AVP's interpretation of the rule) violating the dress code, and it was the AVP's job to correct it.

2.) TNJ states: "When the asst. vp told Lauren to take her headband off and she said no, I would have preferred that she ask the asst. vp if they could discuss it in private. Be that as it may,..."

By the age of 16/17 I would hope a child would know what was "preferred" behaviour when confronted with an unreasonable request by an authority figure. At 9, my DD certainly knows what is EXPECTED (not preferred, btw) in such a situation because she has been taught to respectfully disagree with authority figures ever since she learned to argue with her father and I about bedtime, chores, etc. She has been taught to make her case and live with our decision. Many times, we will reverse our decision based on some very valid points.

Again, this is age 9. Certainly, by Jr. Yr. in HS, one should know how to RESPECTFULLY stand their ground. If they are taught. (This is NOT saying TNJ hasn't taught her.)

3.) The "everyone else is doing it" thing never works.

It shouldn't work in wooing parents into giving in, nor should it work with school authorities. Further, TNJ's DD's response to being caught was to snitch on her friends. How would her friends have felt if the AVP's response was to require the girl's friends to also comply?

Bottom line, headgear was the AVP's pet peeve and the AVP was at the same place at the same time as TNJ's DD that day and called her on it. Now, if TNJ were to relay that her DD had had interactions with the AVP in the prior 7 school days while wearing her plain headbands and had not been asked to comply...

But, for me it sounds like she simply had not run into someone who was enforcing that interpretation of the dress code before Wednesday. She was the one who got caught is a very valid reason for why she was (and I still do not agree with this, but some percieve it to be) "singled out."

For example, if you speed on a specific route to work and your friends speed to work on their different routes and none of you get stopped for weeks, does that mean that you are being "singled out" when you get stopped one day on YOUR route because they did not get stopped on THEIRS? What if you had passed a Sherriff's Deputy running radar each day, but then the day you got stopped it was a State Patrol Trooper? Does the fact that the Deputy didn't cite you for speeding for weeks make the Trooper's citation any less valid? No, not at all.

3.) Actions speak louder than words. While TNJ seems to "prefer" that her daughter deal with conflict in a respectful manner, what she is DOING is showing by example how NOT do so.
Per TNJ:
"If they made my daughter take her headband off, then I was going to go to the school and insist that every girl be evaluated for barrettes, hairpins, ribbons, weaves, braids with beads, etc., "
"I told the asst. vp that I was ready to call every news organization I could think of,..."
"I am not a fighting person, but believe me, they were going to have a fight on their hands that they would not want." Etc.

While I realize these were said in the heat of the moment, I hope TNJ will really think about what she DOES along with what she is saying to her DD about this incident.

4.) TNJ asks: "So was there a rule or wasn't there? Who actually was in the wrong here."

Just because the interpretation of the policy was reevaluated after this incident and her DD was allowed to wear her headband does not mean that the AVP was in the wrong. If the AVP had interpreted the policy to include headbands and had consistently enforced such an interpretation, the AVP was 100% in the right. And by openly defying the AVP and then ignoring the request and going to class, TNJ's DD was 100% wrong.

To try to mask this as some patriotic heroism is completely missing the point, IMO.

 

[TeresaNJ]

ckr, I've read your last post several times before replying. I'm very glad for you that your nine year old daughter is so respectful of everyone at all times. However, when she is a teenager and trying to assert herself and be her own person, I can honestly say I'm 100% sure she will not please you at all times. I'm 100% sure you will be saying to yourself, as many of us mother's of teens do, where is my sweet, darling daughter in that teenager's body.

Secondly, my daughter did not "snitch" on her friends. She did not name names. She stated that there were at least six girls in her immediate vicinity who had headbands on also. I never said the other girls were my daughter's friends, just that there were other students with headbands on also in the same immediate area. My daughter's friends, who made their headbands with my daughter, were not with my daughter at the time. Lauren was not trying to get anyone else in trouble, she wanted to know why she was the only one confronted, when there were girls all around her with headbands on.

Third, your reference to speeding is not comparing apples to apples. Everyone knows that speeding is wrong. Lauren did not know that wearing a headband was against the rules as it has never been made an issue to her knowledge, and I would think if anyone else had ever been made to take a headband off, she would have heard about it, as you know how things fly through the school grapevine. Again, please keep in mind that if she had any inkling that wearing a headband was against the rules she would not have worn one. As far as I know, headgear had been interpreted as hats, scarves, anything covering the whole head, not an adornment to keep hair out of your eyes. Also, as I've said repeatedly, she has always worn headbands, along with bows, barrettes, ribbons, ponytail holders, etc., since kindergarten. Why would she think she was doing something wrong now?

Maybe you're right in that she wasn't "singled out", just caught the vp on a bad day, I don't know, but it sure appeared that way to me, considering all the facts. A few of you are focusing on the fact that she didn't kowtow to an "authority" figure. Personally, I don't want my daughter to blidnly obey every authority figure she comes in contact with. She was not disrespectful. She was asked to take the headband off, and she said no, she wasn't going to take it off. I don't blame her. The dress code does not mention anywhere that headbands are not allowed. Throughout her whole middle school and highschool career, she has worn them too many times to count, and prior to this school year she has worn many colorful ones. This is the only one she has worn that has had USA on it though. The school asked the students to be patriotic and wear red, white and blue that day. So it is ironic to me that the vp would, on that day, choose to interpret a USA headband to be considered headgear.

As far as your statement that my reaction was showing Lauren to be disrespectful by my comments to the vp that I was going to ask that every girl be checked for hair adornments and asked to remove them, and that they were going to have a fight on their hands, I do not consider to be disrespectful comments. Those were my feelings at that time, and I still feel that way. If Lauren had been made to remove the headband, then everyone should have to remove whatever they have in their hair, and I would have gone the distance to see that it was enforced, even if it meant going all the way to the school board. Standing up for equal treatment in my opinion is not being disrespectful. I've had three children in the public school system, two who have already graduated, and I have not always agreed on school policy, but have never felt strongly enough to challenge it. This time I did. I have not always agreed on teacher's policies, and felt many times they were unfair or unreasonable, but let it go as it didn't seem worth the aggravation of pursuing it; this time I chose not to let it go. Are you a teacher? You seem to have reacted very strongly to this issue.

The reason I asked who was wrong here, and I do believe the vp was wrong, is because headbands had NEVER been interpreted as headgear, as no one has ever been asked to remove one as far as my daughter knows, and I'm sure she would have known if any one of her many friends and acquaintances had been asked to remove one previously.

I'm sorry that you think my daughter was 100% wrong in this situation. As I said before, she has never knowingly broken a school rule, and considering all the work she put into making this outfil, and how proud she was of it, and thought she was doing something good by showing patriotism, and school spirit, considering the school requested the students to do something special, I don't blame her for not blindly obeying the vp. I'm sure she was caught off guard, never expected to be chastised, and was completely surprised by the demand. I'm proud of her for standing up for herself. She didn't say no to be disrespectful, she said no because she felt attacked, and publicly embarrassed, and wrongly accused. As I said before, maybe their wouldn't have been so many young boys and men molested by their parish priests who were also their school teachers, club leaders, etc., if they had been taught not to blindly obey all people in an authority position. Obviously this in no way compares to that, but it is the same principle.

Lastly, I have NEVER stated that my daughter was a hero for doing what she did, and that was never the intention of my original post. I asked for other's opinions of the situation, and that is all. I don't think she is a hero, as her actions don't qualify to be labeled heroism. I do think she was brave for standing up for what she thought was unfair treatment, and I stand behind her 100%.

Now if I may give you a word of advice, ckr. You may be in for a long, rough ride, when your DD enters HS if you think she will always behave in a manner to which you would like her to. She is only nine now, and hormones haven't kicked in. I hope you will cut her a little slack now and then when the going gets rough.

 

[disfanatiks]

Also, disfanatiks, how are you so sure Lauren was more concerned about how her hair would look, than in the principle of being made to take a headband off commemorating the USA and 9-11? If you were present and then made that statement, then I would give what you say more credibility.

Actually, I took that off of something you had stated.

she had her hair styled in accordance with the hair band, so her hair would have looked silly to her with the hair band off, as the top of her hair would have been flat with curls all around the sides and back.

Maybe I took it a little out of context. But truly I was stating what I felt, not necessarily what was fact. So I did not mean to even try to have credibility. That was just an opinion...not fact.

Please believe me when I say that all of your actions and going to the school and principal would be exactly what I would have done. I could not however have condoned my DD disobeying someone in authority. Now I perhaps am just a bit naive because my child is only 11 and in the 7th grade, so my views come from a mother of a younger child. But even as a teenager I would expect that she would show respect even if she was in total disagreement and then we would pursue the proper channels to address the problem.

I DO feel awful and I AM extremely saddened by what happened to your DD. It is certainly my hope that this will not scar her last two years of high school.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I don't know if ckr is a teacher, but I AM! In fact, a high school teacher. AND...I have a 16 1/2 year old son - hormones and all LOL!!

Our son HAS been taught to respect RULES.

In my classes, my students are expected to obey RULES! My kids love my classes. Their self-esteem grows when they are successful learners who have control over their emotions and behaviors

In my job, I am expected to obey RULES!

In our nation, we are expected to obey RULES!

In our civilized society, we are expected to follow basic RULES of behavior. It is the way of the world. If we all consider this system 'kow-towing', then we have individuals behaving as they please instead of for the good of the whole....hmmm....maybe this is why so many of our fellow DISer's complain of rude behavior at our WDW parks and resorts????


Anyway, to compare compliance with a dress code issue and molestation of children is quite a stretch IMHO. Please see my earlier post for more on how dress codes are devised.

If we raise our kids to resent all 'authority figures', do you really expect them to comply when someone says, "OK, class-please open your books to page..." or "Tonight for homework....."

The hard part is teaching kids to recognize the difference between good and bad authority. But we are parents...that's why we get the big bucks, right? The pay-off is a well-adjusted young adult who knows how to accept direction without taking it personally, but also knows to challenge unfair treatment through proper channels and in a respectful manner.

Do we adults really coast through life never having to follow rules we disagree with? Speaking personally, I've always been an activist who has confronted tons of issues and we encourage our son to do the same as he writes for his school newspaper or thru his school clubs. But we would NEVER tolerate his blatant disrespect to an adult in his school. If he has a problem with a teacher or a rule, we all handle it calmly and in a civilized manner.

If this original post turns out to be a dress code issue, address this and get clarification on the dress code AND THEN WORK TO CHANGE IT! If this was an attack on patriotism, address it AT A BOARD OF ED MEETING!

Sorry if this upsets some, but the original poster asked for opinions...
Unless we are reclusive billionaires, learning how to navigate the hierarchys in our lives is a necessary life-skill.

I wish people would stop viewing schools and teachers as the enemies. If this is how you feel, home-school your kids. If you send them to us every day, accept that they are part of the school community and have to follow the rules. Take the time to learn about your schools, find out what the rules are...work to change them if you don't like them. But PLEASE STOP conveying the message to your kids that no one can tell them what to do, and then getting upset when your kids don't learn. I can't force anyone to learn. They have to come to me willing to learn! And they are not willing to accept education when they view teachers/schools as the enemy and themselves as victims!

 

[MerryPoppins]

I think we may be losing sight of the fact that she didn't blatantly disregard a rule. She just didn't interpret the rule the way the vice-principal did. Sounds like lots of other girls didn't either.

Yes, she did refuse to take it off. That was defiant. Maybe that was wrong. Still, sometime we all have to learn to stand up for ourselves. She didn't think the rule was wrong from my understanding, she just didn't think that headbands were considered headgear. I think she was within her rights to question and I think it's interesting that the administration now apparently has agreed with her.

Wouldd I agree if she had simply disregarded a rule? No way! I think kids should respect authority, too. My kids have been taught to respect adults, especially at school. My daughter is 11 and she would have taken the headband off and probably cried. Still I respect the fact that this young lady stood up for what she felt was her right.

In this day and time, I think we need to take the time to teach our kids to think for themselves. They can't just blindly do what they are told, these days. Too many adults out there are real sickos. Look at what happened with some priests and kids in the Catholic Church.

Oh, and by the way, I am a teacher, too. Rules are important, but questioning interpretations is fair. Just my opinion. I'm not trying to fight. Just wanted to share my opinion. You are welcome to disagree with me.