Multi-Site POS Revision Dated 01/19/19

[ljmiii]

I get that they can change the perks associated with membership based on where you bought (or likely even where you own) but I don't understand how they can start to distinguish a difference in members based on how they acquired the points. Does that mean at some point if you own SSR you are no longer allowed to trade into resorts at 7 months, but only at 6 months because they don't like you any more?

As their 1/19/19 restriction stands, Disney is claiming the right to differentiate ownership based on both how AND when an owner bought their property. I would argue that this restriction combined with the ability or inability of Riviera owners to trade into the 'original 14' breaks any reasonable definition of DVC 'owner' or 'member' of the club that allows for trading - we are all Schrodinger's owners neither in the club nor out of it until Disney wants to see us in a certain way.

That said, my understanding is that the easier change would be for Disney to go in the other direction - retaining 7 months for 'everyone', but restricting resale owners to 8 months while continuing 11 months for direct.

 

[crvetter]

Does that mean at some point if you own SSR you are no longer allowed to trade into resorts at 7 months, but only at 6 months because they don't like you any more?

I think stuff like this is absolutely a justified question, explaining that they have gone after future owners what is to stop them from going after current (resale or direct). You are questioning their brand rather than legality which I think will resonate more with them. I'd have to look if there is anything to say that the DVC Reservation Component has to open at the same time for all DVC Resorts. I only know off hand it says that each resort must be given 1 moth Home Resort Advantage. I'd like to think they wouldn't do this because all indications have been that the terms of the current DVC resorts, technically didn't change. So perhaps they could do what you mentioned with a future resort but maybe not current ones, but they have been pretty heavy handed so the question of trust is important.

I should highlight that it does explicitly state that BVTC can, if it decides, set point charts different for the DVC Reservation Component (thus giving different values to different resorts to a degree). Though it looks like our Resort Agreements say that the 1 DVC Reservation Point = 1 Home Resort Reservation Point.

 

[LAX]

What worries me is that if DVD gets away with altering the basic nature of our deeded ownership then all bets are off.

There is no reason to assume that as 'grandfathered' resale buyers we would continue to enjoy the same booking window as those who bought directly from Disney. 11 Months direct home resort, 8 months resale home resort, 7 months anyone else could well be in our future.

That's my fear as well. In fact, someone on another thread mentioned that we agree to essentially allow DVD to make any changes it sees fit (doesn't necessarily have to benefit the members) when we sign to join the club (I guess it's really not a Club anymore if it ever was).

LAX

 

[Aron1012]

Nothing like scheduling your day around a call with Yvonne and then getting a call from her office 10 minutes before they need to reschedule for next week

 

[ziravan]

Look around social media at interest in DRR and see how much reservation there is about the effect of this new restriction on the value of purchasing DRR direct.

The case has been fully made with and among the Influentials that these new restrictions at worse hurt the value of a direct purchase of DRR and at best create significant concern about how things will play out.

From a branding perspective, that might just be 5-10% of people contemplating these concerns now, but this is the base rock from which opinion will crystallize over time.

DVD would be well served, for its own interest, to reverse course here and preserve its brand. Like all such things, time is money.

 

[ljmiii]

Nothing like scheduling your day around a call with Yvonne and then getting a call from her office 10 minutes before they need to reschedule for next week

Let's hope this is happy news...

 

[TexasChick123]

Nothing like scheduling your day around a call with Yvonne and then getting a call from her office 10 minutes before they need to reschedule for next week

Thank you for taking the time to call. I sincerely hope they rollback these restrictions, but I’m not optimistic. I also told them what I think about the restrictions when I spoke to whomever a while back (it wasn’t YC). At the very least, this phone call allows yet another member to give negative feedback on these changes.

 

[Aron1012]

Look around social media at interest in DRR and see how much reservation there is about the effect of this new restriction on the value of purchasing DRR direct.

The case has been fully made with and among the Influentials that these new restrictions at worse hurt the value of a direct purchase of DRR and at best create significant concern about how things will play out.

From a branding perspective, that might just be 5-10% of people contemplating these concerns now, but this is the base rock from which opinion will crystallize over time.

DVD would be well served, for its own interest, to reverse course here and preserve its brand. Like all such things, time is money.

I did wonder if maybe their wasn't something in the works that cause them to postpone today. Probably not, but it is possible. I have my list of questions and thoughts ready to go for Monday. One question/point I want to definitely make is if they hate resale so much why not keep the resale price up to a spot where direct is more appealing. They do have control over that through ROFR.

Just today we received notice that Disney waived ROFR for us on a small PVB contract at $145/pt. For that savings I don't really care I can't book Riviera with those points, I have other contracts that are grandfathered in. If that price was $180 or more I would have just bought direct most likely. They want to fix a problem they already have the solution to.....

 

[LAX]

Nothing like scheduling your day around a call with Yvonne and then getting a call from her office 10 minutes before they need to reschedule for next week

May be YC and Co. have been able to make the connection between your DIS handle and real life, so they need just a little more time to formulate a rebuttal to your questions raised here!

LAX

 

[crvetter]

May be YC and Co. have been able to make the connection between your DIS handle and real life, so they need just a little more time to formulate a rebuttal to your questions raised here!

LAX

They do follow the threads and not just DIS. I was told all business lines of Disney review the threads applicable to it. So who knows they might have,

 

[ziravan]

Whelp, I had someone at work ask me about DVC tonight. After a five minute discussion about what they were looking to accomplish with buying, I took a hard pause, gritted my teeth, and said,

“Sounds like the new Riviera resort is what you want. I have a mailer about it in my car that I got yesterday; I’ll go get it for you to look at.”

They were under the impression that CCV was the only WDW resort that they could buy direct.

I just wish I could make a Riviera recommendation without regretting that if they purchase based on my advice, I’ll be essentially helping to validate DVD’s misguided business decisions.

(And I also recommended that they buy a fixed week Fall Frenzy standard studio in order to preserve their resale value, as I believe that’ll be essential to hold value under the current rules.)

 

[TexasChick123]

Nothing like scheduling your day around a call with Yvonne and then getting a call from her office 10 minutes before they need to reschedule for next week

When did they scheduled the next phone call?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Whelp, I had someone at work ask me about DVC tonight. After a five minute discussion about what they were looking to accomplish with buying, I took a hard pause, gritted my teeth, and said,

“Sounds like the new Riviera resort is what you want. I have a mailer about it in my car that I got yesterday; I’ll go get it for you to look at.”

They were under the impression that CCV was the only WDW resort that they could buy direct.

I just wish I could make a Riviera recommendation without regretting that if they purchase based on my advice, I’ll be essentially helping to validate DVD’s misguided business decisions.

(And I also recommended that they buy a fixed week Fall Frenzy standard studio in order to preserve their resale value, as I believe that’ll be essential to hold value under the current rules.)

Yep, no way I'd recommend it or any direct purchase now. I'd direct towards resale if it otherwise seemed like a slam dunk for them.

 

[Aron1012]

When did they scheduled the next phone call?

I just had it but apparently Yvonne was still too busy so I spoke with Karen. For those wondering if they tied my account to the conversation it was seemed clear they did as she made a comment about me checking DIS Boards. Not that it concerns me. As expected she was much better at touting the company lines that the first person I talked to. I got the member feedback response when I asked why they were adding the restrictions rather than the "to sell more direct contract" (I hope that poor girl doesn't get fired). I told her I thought that was not true, that members didn't ask to differentiate between direct and resale, but rather they wanted to know what they got for paying 50-75% more for the same product. I did ask why they didn't just ROFR any contract that sells below 80% of direct as it would push buyers to direct over resale. She said another person had made that same point and she would be relaying that to management.

I asked about the idea that any new resort added to the club must have an agreement "similar" to the existing resorts. She basically said that the agreement is similar but with additional requirements. I asked her if in the future they could exclude certain resorts, members who purchased direct prior to a certain date, etc from being able to book new resorts. She said yes in theory they can basically add any new restrictions they want to new resorts (would love to see that argument in front of a judge).

We also spent quite a bit of time discussing these changes in the context of several recent decisions (2020 points chart, UY change only for DVD) and that I was concerned DVCMC was not acting in our best interest as members. She used the 2020 revision as an example that they listened to members and rolled it back. I also pointed out that maybe they found legal complications with the change and decided to be better prepared to reintroduce it.

 

[Madame]

. For those wondering if they tied my account to the conversation it was seemed clear they did as she made a comment about me checking DIS Boards

For some reason the idea of this gives me the creeps. Like Big Brother or something...

 

[Katie L]

For some reason the idea of this gives me the creeps. Like Big Brother or something...

It's a public message board - it is a little creepy, but certainly "within bounds". If I were a Disney employee I'd definitely be reading these threads. Not to mention if I were a resales broker, or an attorney in timeshare law (made that one up... RE law... whatever).

 

[Madame]

It's a public message board - it is a little creepy, but certainly "within bounds". If I were a Disney employee I'd definitely be reading these threads. Not to mention if I were a resales broker, or an attorney in timeshare law (made that one up... RE law... whatever).

« In bounds » yes, but it just gives me the willies. Like FB taking my profile & feeding me ads.

 

[Aron1012]

« In bounds » yes, but it just gives me the willies. Like FB taking me profile & feeding me ads.

I kind of expect that, but was kind of weird she felt the need to point it out. It was an intentional comment I'm sure.

It was in relation to the idea that the UY amendment was a benefit to members. I said it would be a benefit to members if everyone could do that not just DVD. At this point it is just a money-maker weakly disguised as a benefit. She counter with it was a benefit to all those members who recently had their waitlist filled because of this. But I again told her those all could have been filled long ago if they would just ROFR most of the contracts that are sold, because they are still making a good margin on many they let pass. She did say that they are working on a new DVC system and the ability to have multiple UYs under one account MIGHT be part of that.

Edit to add: Forgot one other point about Riviera, if the value of resales plunges (like some expect) because of the restrictions that will hurt their ability to sell direct. I pointed out that while most buyers don't go in with the intention of selling for a profit it is comforting to know if something happens we can get at least some of our investment back. She did agree with that point, then said well I mean I at least see where you are coming from.

 

[Madame]

I kind of expect that, but was kind of weird she felt the need to point it out. It was an intentional comment I'm sure.

Yes, similar to when they pointed out to members who challenged them on the 2020 chart that they were looking out for them even though they were just resalers.

It honestly seems juvenile and lacks professionalism. Like, we know you read the threads, but why in the world are you bringing it up besides some immature attempt to assert how all-knowing you are. I honestly think it’s amateur hour at DVC now.

 

[ziravan]

I decided to remove this comment