Mulan Is Back

[barkley]

DD, DS and I went to a puppet show tonight - the kids were so happy and had so much fun, then on the way home they literally broke out into 2 little demons from HE((. They just started hitting and punching each other for no reason DS grabbed DD neck and was trying to choke her! I pulled the car over and stopped them, explained to DS that what he did was ASSAULT and cannot do that and asked DD what she wanted to do- she said call the police and put him in jail, DS began to cry and said he didn't mean to do it. Then as they calmed down and I drove home, as we pull in, DS gets out of the car and has completely disassembled the charger cord to the DVD player NOW, I'm blowing my stack - they BOTH sat in timeout while I tried and tried and tried to fix it. After multiple attempts, I asked DS if there were any other parts, he says,"yeah, the string part" so I go back to car and look and look- I found a small fuse, I asked DS is this the part, he says yes, so I put the thing back together....it works, THANK GOD!
I ask them what the heck is going on? They say, I don't know. DAMM told us too! So I explained to them the rules of LIFE....You don't do what someone else tells you to do ESPECIALLY if you know its wrong! Then I made them do 25 pushups....they did 2 sets of 50 on there own before they asked "how many were we suppose to do?" Oh well...then when I told them they did another set of 25 each guess they felt really bad....
I took away their TV time and sent them off to bed.
I just don't get it?
Mulan

one thing jumped out at me as i read this, and i want to suggest you think about it because it may be something their counselor needs to address.

when you asked the kids what was going on (and i assume with both the argument and the disassemby of the cord) they said that your ex told them to. this just does'nt make sense-it's a new car that's he had'nt seen until after you got the kids back, so he does'nt even know there's a portable dvd player in it. there is no way he could have told one or both to do this.

kids by nature will try to play parents against each other. in an intact family it may be saying that one parent o.k.'d something or said they could do something the child wanted to. with divorced parents it's often getting to do something or aquiring something while with one parent that the other parent won't permit. in your case i would be concerned that the kids, young as they are, are reccognizing how contentious your relationship with the ex is and how ready both of you are to anger at the other-and may have decided that since you don't communicate and compare notes on what they say, and may be developing a habit of immediatly using the blame excuse on whatever parent is not around. if this is the case it needs to be addressed appropriatly. they need to learn that they have to be absolutly truthful about their interactions with both of you because if they are'nt then future truthful negative allegations may not be believed on face value (and while they don't need to know it, you need to know that as far as child welfare goes-they need to have a track record of truthfullness so that in those instances where a truly negative issue comes up they can be relied on to convey the real truth).

btw-this may come too late if you've already arranged for delivery of the letter, but, why is there the changes with 24 hours by e-mail provision but nothing about how the other parent has to agree to it? i'm thinking that the way it's written up it opens the door to have the ex simply fire off an e-mail the day before a schedualed return saying 'i've decided to keep them another week', and with the way it's written there's no recourse. i can also see where a planned visitation could be changed to a different drop off day or time-and you, with a new job that might not be welcoming of last minute work changes, scrambling to find childcare, get time off to facilitate. something you probably want to talk to your attny. about.

as a suggestion when the email thing get's hammered out-for your protection and to create a documentation trail-look at your email system and learn how to send a document such that you receive 2 types of alerts that come back to you. one is a delivery receipt (proves it was successful in getting to the recipients email accnt) and one is a receipt for reading (proves the email was open and read-if you write the information as an attachment it can't be just scanned via the in box without opening, it has to be opened and read which triggers an alert to your email with the time and date). set up a folder on your email and send a copy of the sent communications (use the sent function so it shows the date/time you sent it), and when you get the email alert of delivery and subsequently read, send those to the folder as well. then you can show you sent the email, it was received, and it was read. if he claims to have not received it-you have proof, if he claims not to have read it you can either show he did open the letter or how long he let it sit there without reading it. i used this method when i had a problem employee who claimed not to get items i emailed him-it was a very effective tool to show he had been provided information and that he had indeed read it.

 

[Tink215]

Mulan, I too Agree with some posters, I have 2 small kids, I tend to overeact when they get physical, but Understand that there is always something that tiggers it, Overtired, sleepy or cranky lack of limits and rules fom grandmas house, They are kids and they will fight.
You cant put words at three years old like assalt , those are words we use as adults, and I dont think your son was assautling his sister, and if you think so then maybe you might need to talk to someone,and no I dont mean that in a bad way, I just think because of what DAMM has put you thru and what you went thru, you may tend to over react when it comes to physical things, You as the parent needs to stop the cycle and it starts by choosing your words and actions wisely, Let them be children give them counsequences but not consequnces that you would give adults, they are kids, and they are unde
alot of pressure and stress just because of the divorce itself let alone all the different ways of life they live, With you its about rules, structure and love and stability, with their dad I doubt thats what they get, they probably have no limitations at all, once they come from that back to you, They may be confused and need a couple of days of adjustment back to your rules. I am a preschool teacher and I have seen this kind of behavior from children who come from divorce families, I too also understand that your situation is different, Just remember they are little and will make mistakes....

 

[robinb]

when you asked the kids what was going on (and i assume with both the argument and the disassemby of the cord) they said that your ex told them to. this just does'nt make sense-it's a new car that's he had'nt seen until after you got the kids back, so he does'nt even know there's a portable dvd player in it. there is no way he could have told one or both to do this.

I assumed it was the argument and not the DVD player. DAMM could have told them to get into a ruckus . As for sibling rivalry ... that is the Number One reason I have only one child. I hated fighting with my sister and I know that it would drive me crazy with my own children. So, I can't give any advise on that front.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

...

....My gut instinct when I read the first part of your story was that the kids are just over-tired. Perhaps even sleep deprived. Since you don't know how much sleep they've had over the past week (or diet for that matter) I would want to throw them back into routine ASAP. I know you want to do some fun activities as a family, but kids absolutely thrive on routine and knowing what to expect. Since they probably have NO routine with DAMM, you're home will feel even more secure to them if they know what to expect.

My kids are a little overtired this week too. We've had one thing after another the entire month of June. And I let my oldest stay up late doing activiites with her best friend (who's been out of town for 3 weeks) and she's wiped! Lack of sleep does things to all of us. My 4 year old get MEAN and disobeys a lot.

I also suspect that "DAMM told us to" is somthing they think they can tell you that will diffuse your anger at poor behavior.

Mulan, I have my own issues as a parent. I have overreacted too. So know that I'm not casting stones, but rather offering support. The other day my 4 yo acted like he was 2 -- and it's a whole lot harder to carry a kicking and screaming 4 year old out of a store! Again, I know he's overtired ... but I was really frustated by the time we got to the car...and I listened to him scream about how he wanted candy the entire way home. A couple good nights sleep and he's closer to his sweet self!

Thats a very good point. I did over-react. But, DS is 4 and DD is 6. They fight, but what they did yesterday was 10x more escalated than what they have ever done. By me telling him that was assult was my way of explaining the seriousness of what he had done.
I usually have the kids pick a consequence for their actions, so when I asked DD what she wanted to do I honestly did not expect her to say "call the police"
The whole pushup/ situp thing is part of their Karate training- if they don't focus or listen then that's the consequence, in and out of class. It the consistency of the cause and effect. Call it punishment or call it reminders.
I guess yesterday, we were all tired....
Mulan

 

[ilovejack02]

Thats a very good point. I did over-react. But, DS is 4 and DD is 6. They fight, but what they did yesterday was 10x more escalated than what they have ever done. By me telling him that was assult was my way of explaining the seriousness of what he had done.
I usually have the kids pick a consequence for their actions, so when I asked DD what she wanted to do I honestly did not expect her to say "call the police"
The whole pushup/ situp thing is part of their Karate training- if they don't focus or listen then that's the consequence, in and out of class. It the consistency of the cause and effect. Call it punishment or call it reminders.
I guess yesterday, we were all tired....
Mulan

Well that makes sense about the pushups.
Hope yall have a wonderful week !

 

[momx2]

Thats a very good point. I did over-react. But, DS is 4 and DD is 6. They fight, but what they did yesterday was 10x more escalated than what they have ever done. By me telling him that was assult was my way of explaining the seriousness of what he had done.
I usually have the kids pick a consequence for their actions, so when I asked DD what she wanted to do I honestly did not expect her to say "call the police"
The whole pushup/ situp thing is part of their Karate training- if they don't focus or listen then that's the consequence, in and out of class. It the consistency of the cause and effect. Call it punishment or call it reminders.
I guess yesterday, we were all tired....
Mulan

I remember the first time my then 3 yr. old DD attacked my older DD who was 6. I saw the whole thing from the kitchen window. I had been telling older DD that one day lil' sis was going to let her have it, because she bossed her around all the time. Well, sure enough it happened. I don't know what caused it to happen, but all of a sudden I saw 3 yr. old dive on top of 6 yr. old. They were both on the trampoline. 3 yr. old sat on top of her and just hit her as many times as she could before I got out there to get her off. 3 yr. old did it again a few weeks later with my dad. 6 yr. old got on a swing that 3 yr. old just got off. 3 yr. old dove on top of her and started hitting her until my dad pulled her off. It was wrong and she was punished, but I have to say that the 6 yr. old had a bit more respect for her afterwards.

I too have overreacted about things, but I still think it was wrong to explain "assault" to a 3 yr. old. They are testing boundaries and probably your DD is the "boss" so to speak when they are gone and your son gets his fill of it. I really wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. Also, I still think the exercise as punishment is going to come back to bite you later. Your kids are picking it now because they really don't care. Take away something that matters to them, IMO.

 

[nkess]

The kids going from one place to the other, having to listen to two parents who cannot stand one another. I am sure they are frustrated and confused, as kids kids' love for their parents does not end when the marriage does.

We have the kids witnessing violence in one home, and being made to do excessive exercise (Yes, I think that 25-75 push ups sit-ups for a young child is excessive), drink water, and walk laps in the mall for punishment in the other.

You have bragged about your raise, but dont want to spend any more money on attorney fees. You have considered a pool, a trip to Disneyland, and setting aside money for emergency. The kids ARE an emergency! You want to send your ex the bill for your son's cat. Even if you dont come right out and say it, I am sure your son can sense that you are angry about his cat but not his sister's.

Now your daughter wants to send her brother to jail?!?! Thats what she has learned about communication and problem solving?

If I were a judge in your case I honestly would not know what to do!!

 

[blackforest]

I'm glad things are better! My dd6 returned on Wednesday from a 2 day visit with BFather. Oh my gosh! The anger and rage that she is exhibiting is a scary thing. Before this visit (it has been 10 months since BF last visit), we were dealing wiht horrible night terrors. Well, that is back, plus the rage. DD6 went after DD13 with a fork. She tried to stab her but only scratched her instead. Yes I have over reacted to DD6's behavior, yes I know that she is confused and is testing her boundries when she comes home, but the physical nature of the rage frightens us. DD6 has 2 pyschologists, in 2 different states and both they and the parenting coordinator are concerned about the long term effects on her. I want someone to take a stand (besides DH and me) and have this end!

Mulan, hang in there! It takes the two of us to handle our family, and I can't imagine doing this on your own. Find a friendly shoulder that will listen and vent away!

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

The kids going from one place to the other, having to listen to two parents who cannot stand one another. I am sure they are frustrated and confused, as kids kids' love for their parents does not end when the marriage does.

We have the kids witnessing violence in one home, and being made to do excessive exercise (Yes, I think that 25-75 push ups sit-ups for a young child is excessive), drink water, and walk laps in the mall for punishment in the other.

You have bragged about your raise, but dont want to spend any more money on attorney fees. You have considered a pool, a trip to Disneyland, and setting aside money for emergency. The kids ARE an emergency! You want to send your ex the bill for your son's cat. Even if you dont come right out and say it, I am sure your son can sense that you are angry about his cat but not his sister's.

Now your daughter wants to send her brother to jail?!?! Thats what she has learned about communication and problem solving?

If I were a judge in your case I honestly would not know what to do!!

I guess when you sum it up like that, I am terrible ain't I?
As to spending money...well, I want to spend my money on fun things- attys are not fun, just a necessity. As to DS kitten, I love it as much and probably care for it more becuz its so sick and DS sees that. Yes, I complain about the money DAMM costs especially when he doesn't pay his CS and the vet bill takes away from the kids.
As far as the exercise, sure its a punishment but at least I make it fun, and its a learning experience.
And lastly, I don't take away the kids love for DAMM, as much as I hate too, when they talk bad about him, I stop them and remind them of respect and love and Honor thy Mother and Father.
If you have all the answers then please share them. I can take all the criticism in the world- thats not a problem for me- what I need are solutions to these problems
Mulan

 

[LoveKermit]

I personally like the push up idea. Certainly an age appropriate amount, but exercise is a discipline in itself. I might have to remember that one.

 

[graygables]

I personally like the push up idea. Certainly an age appropriate amount, but exercise is a discipline in itself. I might have to remember that one.

I interviewed a karate dojo a few weeks ago and one of the things they seriously emphasize is respect at HOME. They send home chore/behaviour charts and if the kiddos aren't doing what they are supposed to OUTSIDE the dojo, they don't get to test for belts. At first, I thought that was a bit harsh, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked the idea. They also use pushups and crunches as disciplinary measures there and at home. I never really considered it, but it makes sense to me now.

I also agree that there was overreaction, but I don't know anyone who hasn't BTDT at some point. I would try to keep words like "assault" and "police" out of the conversation and I would not ask the victim what they think the punishment should be, but that's just b/c I couldn't keep a straight face when they would have asked that the other one be tied up to a flagpole with duct tape and covered in honey... IMHO, there is too much exposure and talk about police for the kiddos. Even though they are taught that police are "friends", they also innately know that the police arrest people and take them away, so it's important to try to keep them away from all that as much as possible. They are still CHILDREN and it's important to at least try to maintain some innocence.

The kids need a strong reminder that physically harming another person is unacceptable (accidental or otherwise), as is destruction of property. They need to be taught to apologize AND TO ASK FORGIVENESS. They also need to learn to forgive. My girls have to say, "I'm sorry, will you forgive me?" and the correct response is, "Yes, I forgive you". At first, this is done through gritted teeth (and if NOT done, alone time will ensue), but eventually, they will come around. We were on the road home for 8 hours today and about 7 hours into it, 12yo flung a bag over the seat and whacked 9yo in the face. She let out her initial shocked-but-not-sure-about-pain-yet yelp and 12yo said, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry!" and 9yo said, "I'm OK, I forgive you" and they got out Battleship and played a game. I was all because they are finally getting what it means to ask and be forgiven. I'm sure we'll have plenty of teeth-gritted moments, but EVENTUALLY...

This parenting gig is a tough job.

 

[livie1205]

I do not agree that you overreacted about your son choking your dd///if you do not stop this now IT WILL get worse....this is not a normal family thing because of all the drama that has went on....my son started to act out in the way very young when he saw his father do the same....now he is 11 and needs ALOT of therapy and is VERY violent....I had to get a court order for therapy for him and it took 2 years to get this....no doc would toch him because his father did not agree! stop this now....for your son.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

DD a few hours ago, comes to me saying that Little Climber is bleeding! So while I am cleaning up the blood to see where its coming from, his paw is cut. I asked DD what happened she said she didn't know. I got the first aid kit and did the best 'damage control' I could. After we sat down and I asked her again as calmly as I could- What happened, I explained to her that the vet will need to know in order to help Little Climber. She still said she didn't know, I noticed the manicure set was not in its usual place. I asked her again, she said she didn't know. I asked her where the nail clippers were, she said she didn't know. I told her I bet if I find them I will know because there will be skin and blood on them, she began to cry and said she was pointing the scissors (manicure) at the cat and he batted his paw at them and cut himself, then she began to cry....Whats weird is we were watching a movie and I never heard the cat cry out or noticed her with the scissors. And I do pay pretty close attention to what they are doing
I asked her why she didn't tell me the truth in the first place? She said she didn't want to get into trouble...I told her "are you in trouble right now?" she said no. I told her to sit and think about what she did and what could have happened if his paw had missed...she got the point, then I asked her to tell little Climber sorry.........I think she is sorry and understands the severity of what she has done, why she did it
They see the counselor first thing in the am.............
Mulan

 

[graygables]

DD a few hours ago, comes to me saying that Little Climber is bleeding! So while I am cleaning up the blood to see where its coming from, his paw is cut. I asked DD what happened she said she didn't know. I got the first aid kit and did the best 'damage control' I could. After we sat down and I asked her again as calmly as I could- What happened, I explained to her that the vet will need to know in order to help Little Climber. She still said she didn't know, I noticed the manicure set was not in its usual place. I asked her again, she said she didn't know. I asked her where the nail clippers were, she said she didn't know. I told her I bet if I find them I will know because there will be skin and blood on them, she began to cry and said she was pointing the scissors (manicure) at the cat and he batted his paw at them and cut himself, then she began to cry....Whats weird is we were watching a movie and I never heard the cat cry out or noticed her with the scissors. And I do pay pretty close attention to what they are doing
I asked her why she didn't tell me the truth in the first place? She said she didn't want to get into trouble...I told her "are you in trouble right now?" she said no. I told her to sit and think about what she did and what could have happened if his paw had missed...she got the point, then I asked her to tell little Climber sorry.........I think she is sorry and understands the severity of what she has done, why she did it
They see the counselor first thing in the am.............
Mulan

My first gut-reaction was she was trying to clip his nails and missed. It's not at all unusual for children to try stuff like that either on animals or themselves and then try to hide/lie about it. When 12yo was 6, she came running in, bleeding like a stuck pig from her hand. I took one look and knew it needed stitches. She, of course, didn't know what happened, but the doctor finally got it out of her that she'd been playing with MY super-sharp scissors from my desk, cutting "eyes" out of a ZooPals paper plate to make a mask and sliced her hand open. She was terrified to tell me that she had done something she knew was wrong with such serious consequences. My oldest cut off her bangs and sliced open her eyebrow at the same time the night before her kindergarten interview for a private school. She swore up and down she didn't do it...

One thing I have learned in dealing with my DDs is that asking why they do something is futile. Even the older ones (22 & 20) don't have a good answer for it and studies show their decision-making brains are still developing. They don't know why and asking them just confuses things even more. There is NO logic to define most of my kids' mess-ups. What is important is they LEARN something from it. They learn they can trust me enough to tell me WHAT they did (b/c I won't ask them why and won't flip out on them). They learn not to do whatever it was again. They learn natural consequences. In the case of an animal getting hurt, I believe that for most children, the guilt is enough. If there is no guilt, then perhaps the child needs some more serious counseling about the behavior. In the case of the cat, I'd make sure that DD understands that she can HELP an adult groom, but must not do it by herself.

Just a suggestion, but my girls have really enjoyed reading the Mrs. Piggle Wiggle books. We were just talking about them today, as a matter of fact, and I truly think that reading them when I was young impacted how I parent. For DDs, they can see where I come up with some of my ideas and that helps them, too.

I think the counselor needs to address the anger issues and give all of you some coping/discipline strategies. When my 20yo was in counseling as a young teen, the counselor met with me, then her, then us in the hour we were there. First for me to address any new problems and give an update, 2nd for the session, and finally, to get us all on the same page for the expectations. I hope it goes well for them tomorrow, but please do tell the counselor about the choking and the cat. It just sounds like a lot more is going on and the counselor is not handling it nor equipping you with real strategies to deal in the meantime.

 

[ilovejack02]

Oh so sorry about the kitty cat!

My oldest stepson has a half brother that at the age of i guess 5 ish cut his mothers cat's ear almost in half. We think he was trying to trim the cats hair.
The child was always a very rambunctious little boy and he was punished and had the big talk of how you dont hurt animals, but nothing was looked at upon as more than Matt is a HUGE handful and very impulsive. He is about 13 right now and a pretty normal kid.

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

Thanks guys, that does make me feel a bit better- I think I do understand a bit more- maybe she was just trying to clip his nails, hopefully she knows the consequence and it won't be repeated. I just worry about any kid who hurts an animal- if something in their brain triggers then they grow up to be a serial killer or something.
I will mention this to the counselor, we're off to see her............
Mulan

 

[Mulan'sWarrior]

ops duplicate post

 

[momx2]

I understand your concern, but I truly believe you are being hyper-sensitive to some of this behavior. Everything you have described in the past few days regarding your children is normal, IMO. I just don't want them to think that they need counseling over normal child behaviors. This will make them overly sensitive also and think they are always doing wrong. I would mention these things to the counselor out of their ear shot and see if she wants to bring it up. I know you are worried, but these actions need normal parental response and not intervention from professionals, IMO. Good luck!

 

[momlady]

Lots going on when one goes away for a few days! Mulan I think where you might need to worry is *if* the kids were doing stuff to the cats on purpose, and then not feeling any guilt over it. It does not sound like that at all!

 

[ilovejack02]

Hi girl! I am kinda thinking you might be just much more sensitive to what the kids do because of all the issues with DAMM.
Not saying you shouldnt be on the look out for abnormal behavior, but where does normal kids stuff end and the bad stuff begin. And if you relate all kids behavior back to damm what kind of harm can that cause? I dont think you would want to over think everything the kids do, but how do you know where to stop and start? How do keep yourself from being too sensitive and freaking over over things that just arent there?

Just throwing stuff out there, I dont have answers for you , but your counselor might.

I will say I do LOVE how you are so consistent with the kids and that you dont just let them get away with things when they get back from DAMM because of mommy guilt. While not everyone agrees with how you do it, at least you are trying.

My best friend just got her DD3 back from her ex after 7 days. It was the first time she had been away from her for 7 days.. they just started 7 with mom and 7 days with dad.
I can see this is going to be a major issue. BFF just wouldnt tell her no for anything yesterday and the child God Bless her was a ROYAL BRAT. I finally told BFF she just cant let her act like this, but BFF doesnt want to upset her and just wants to be her playmate right now because of horrible mommy guilt. WHAT THE HECK!!!???!!!

Thank goodness you arent that mommy!

I get the mommy guilt, i have a stepson that i worship, but we always knew it was NOT in his best interest to spoil him even though it was more fun than being a parent!