Muhammad [pbuh], the Master of Prophets

glo · Dec 18, 2002

I will not close this thread because some people don't agree with what is being said. It will be closed if people can't just express their ideas in a civilized manner. No guidelines were broken by his original post, but it is the consequent post on both sides after that are disturbing.

Enough...let's act like adults and be more tolerant!

Jeff in BigD · Dec 19, 2002

Originally posted by yasooa
Dear....CRB#33

The first verse of the so-called Gospel of John, which says
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
certainly reeks of Greek thought. Scholars have proven that statements almost exactly like this were made by Philo of Alexandria, who was a Jewish philosopher. Certainly Jesus, and all prophets, were above the philosophical rubbish...

Hmm, calling my beliefs "rubbish". Wow, I'm sold!

DVC~OKW~96 · Dec 19, 2002

Well, I've learned one thing...keep up with a thread!

To clarify: I find almost any dicussion of topics that I know nothing about interesting. Should someone be a follower of Satanism, voodoo, Santeria etc. I may find some of the doctrine interesting, but could also discover that I didn't want to learn more or read any further. To be informed does not mean, for me, to support.

Given the objections of many posters to this thread, that the original poster only posts religious tracts, that could be considered, if not outright spamming, then propaganda, I suppose. Doesn't change the issue in some respects though.

There are so very many topics posted to the CB that have nothing to do with Disney, that objecting to this post on those grounds is a bit weak. Also, if the OP only contributes only posts of this nature, then objecting on that basis is also somewhat weak. There are other members of this site who restrict themselves with regard to the topics they contribute.

I can't exactly say that this site in general is the best place to preach the message of Islam, but then it isn't the best place to peach the message of Christianity either, and that happens quite frequently.

Anyway, enough from me on the topic. Peace.

betz · Dec 19, 2002

Shalom, Alackhem
Live In Peace
Asalaam a-ley-khoom
Live In Peace

Since The Dawn Of Time, Weve Been Waging War.
And Hiding Our Love, Behind Locked Doors.
Using Fear To Dominate And Control.
We Have Been Fighting Against Our Very Own Soul

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Miss Jasmine · Dec 19, 2002

Yasooa, I am all for posting diverse things. But respect is very important. You may not agree with my beliefs and I might not agree with yours, but I would never call it rubbish or "so-called".

I am truly saddened by some of the things said on this thread (from both sides). And yes I contributed to some of it, which wasn't the right thing to do.

My main issues are so what if someone wants to post stuff from the Koran, if you don't like it don't read it, but don't put other people's religions and beliefs down in the process either (both sides).

I believe a really meaningful and enlightening conversation could happen and I hope that one of these threads will go in that direction.

This is my command: Love each other. (John 15:17)
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:13)

Saffron · Dec 19, 2002

Once again WDWHound, you say what I wish I could say, so eloquently and caringly.

Peace to everyone!

yasooa · Dec 19, 2002

in the Bible. For example, Ezekiel was addressed as "Son of Man". Jesus himself speaks of the peace makers as "sons of God". It is interesting to note that even though Jesus is called the "Son of God" in the Bible, he is never called "God the Son", which is what the Christians have made him into due to their Trinitarian theology. Even Cyrus the Persian is called "Messiah", or "the anointed", in Isaiah Chapter 45. This verse has been translated in a misleading way. The meaning of the Hebrew word "Messiah" is "God's anointed". Here, when it refers to Cyrus, they translated the Hebrew word "Messiah" with "God's anointed". But in places where- the Bible is talking about Jesus, when the term "Messiah" appears, instead of translating it as "anointed", they simply transliterate it (i.e. they write the Hebrew words with the Roman Alphabet without translating it) so that it reads "Messiah". Interestingly this word "Messiah" is in the Greek equivalent written as "Christ". Thus there seems to be a conspiracy to give us the impression that there is only one Messiah, one Christ and no other. As for the term "Savior", the word is clearly applied to other individuals besides Jesus, for example the Book of II Kings, Chapter 13, Verse 5, says: "And the Lord gave Israel a Savior, so they went out from under the hand of the Syrians; and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents as beforetime."

"I and My Father are One"

In John, Chapter 10, Verse 30, Jesus is quoted as saying "I and my Father are one". Some Christian scholars have insisted that the only probable understanding of these Words are: as one in essence or nature. Yet there are several examples where the same Greek words were used but not understood in the same way. For example, John 17:11 says: "And now I am no more in the world but these are in the world and I come to thee. Holy Father keep through their own name, those who thou hast given me that they may be one, as we are."

yasooa · Dec 20, 2002

6=To His Compassionate Grandfather:

When Muhammad [pbuh] was eight years, two months and ten days old, his grandfather Abdul-Muttalib passed away in Makkah. The charge of the Prophet [pbuh] was now passed on to his uncle Abu Talib, who was the brother of the Prophets father.Abu Talib took the charge of his nephew in the best way.
He put him with his children and preferred him to them. He singled the boy out with great respect and high esteem. Abu Talib remained for forty years cherishing his nephew and extending all possible protection and support to him.
His relations with the others were determined in the light of the treatment they showed to the Prophet [pbuh].
Ibn Asakir reported on the authority of Jalhamah bin Arfuta who said:

"I came to Makkah when it was a rainless year, so Quraish said O Abu Talib, the valley has become leafless and the children hungry, let us go and pray for rain-fall. Abu Talib went to Al-Kabah with a young boy who was as beautiful as the sun, and a black cloud was over his head. Abu Talib and the boy stood by the wall of Al-Kabah and prayed for rain. Immediately clouds from all directions gathered and rain fell heavily and caused the flow of springs and growth of plants in the town and the country

yasooa · Dec 21, 2002

7= Bahira, the Monk..........

When the Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] was twelve years old, he went with his uncle Abu Talib on a business journey to Syria.

When they reached Busra (which was a part of Syria, in the vicinity of Howran under the Roman domain) they met a monk called Bahira (his real name was Georges), who showed great kindness, and entertained them lavishly.

He had never been in the habit of receiving or entertaining them before. He readily enough recognized the Prophet [pbuh] and said while taking his hand: "This is the master of all humans.

Allâh will send him with a Message which will be a mercy to all beings." Abu Talib asked: "How do you know that?"

He replied: "When you appeared from the direction of Aqabah, all stones and trees prostrated themselves, which they never do except for a Prophet. I can recognize him also by the seal of Prophethood which is below his shoulder, like an apple. We have got to learn this from our books.
He also asked Abu Talib to send the boy back to Makkah and not to take him to Syria for fear of the Jews. Abu Talib obeyed and sent him back to Makkah with some of his men servants.

jfulcer · Dec 21, 2002

Muslims may feel that it is blasphemous to even offer a criticism of the Quran. Truth, however, should never object to scrutiny. The Bible has been attacked by Muslims as well as most other religions. Quite unlike the claims of Christianity to the inspiration of the original documents, and the high reliability of subsequent copies, the Quran today is considered by Muslims to be the perfect word of Allah. So we move on to a very simple exercise...What does the Quran actually say? See for yourself if this is a book handwritten by God and handed directly to man.

Problems in the Quran
It is important to note at the outset that the Quran itself claims to be perfect (Sura 85:21-22). Therefore, if even one error is found in the text, the Quran is proven false.
Further, Muhammad himself invites us to check his word against the Bible (which Muslims accept as inspired as well - only with errors) (Sura 2:136 as well as Suras 13, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23, 25...). The Quran was written 600 years after the Bible was complete, so the Bible is the authority.
Muslims will claim that the Bible was corrupted. The question they cannot answer is, "Wjen was the Bible corrupted?" If they say before 600 A.D. the how can the Quran admonish believers to read it? If they claim it was after 600 A.D. then they have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, for we have absolutely no doubt as to the accuracy of copies from at least the 3rd century on.
This puts Muslim critics in a bind. For if the Bible is incorrect, and the Quran says it is not . . . then the Quran is false. If the Bible is correct, then the Quran cannot be true because the Bible flatly contradicts it in many places (which we will see below). If the Bible is true then the Quran is not. If the Bible is false, then so is the Quran for claiming it is not. 
 

Contradictions between the Quran and the Bible 
<!!!----------------------Begin Table-------------------------------!!!>
<table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=10 CELLPADDING=10 COLS=3 WIDTH="100%" >
<tr><td>Biblical</td><td>The Quran</td><td>The Bible</td></tr><tr><td>Number of creation days:</td><td>8 (Sura 41:9-12) or 6 (Suras 7:51; 10:3)</td><td>6 (Genesis 1:31)</td></tr><tr><td>Noah's Sons</td><td>Only 2 saved (Sura 11:32-48)</td><td>All 3 saved (Genesis 7:1-13)</td></tr><tr><td>Where the Ark landed</td><td>Mount Judi (Sura 11:44)</td><td>The Mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:4)</td></tr><tr><td>Abraham's father</td><td>Azar (Sura 6:74)</td><td>Terah (Genesis 11:27)</td></tr><tr><td>Abraham lived and worshipped in</td><td>Mecca (Sura 14:37)</td><td>The Valley of Hebron (Genesis 13:18, 23:2, 35:27)</td></tr><tr><td>Abraham brought which son to sacrifice</td><td>Ishmael (Sura 37:100-112)</td><td>Isaac (Genesis ch. 22)</td></tr><tr><td>Was thrown into a fire by Nimrod</td><tdYes (Sura 9:69; 21:68-69)</td><td>Impossible, Nimrod died centuries earlier!</td></tr><tr><td>Who adopted Moses?</td><td>Pharaoh's Wife (Sura 28:8-9)</td><td>Pharaoh's daughter (Exodus 2:5)</td></tr><tr><td>Noah's flood occurred</td><td>In Moses' day (!) (Sura 7:136 cf. 7:59)</td><td>Well before Moses' time.</td></tr><tr><td>Crucifixion in the time of Pharaoh</td><td>Yes (Sura 7:124)</td><td>Impossible, this is a Roman punishment (about 1500 years too early!).</td></tr><tr><td>Mary gave birth to Jesus</td><td>Under a palm tree (Sura 19:22)</td><td>In a stable (Luke 2:1-20)</td></tr><tr><td>Mary was</td><td>Moses' sister (Sura 19:28)</td><td>Obviously not Moses' sister (about 1500 years too early again).</td></tr><tr><td>God</td><td>does not love sinners (2:190)</td><td>loves us although we sin (Romans 5:8)</td></tr><tr><td>Husbands</td><td>may beat their wives (Sura 4:34) (note: "lightly" is not in the Arabic)</td><td>are to love their wife as themselves (Eph 5:25-28)</td></tr><tr><td>A wife is</td><td>a "tilth" (piece of farmland) (Sura 2:223)</td><td>to be honored (1 Peter 3:7)</td></tr><tr><td>Christians are</td><td>mere men (Sura 5:18)</td><td>children of God (1 John 3:2)</td></tr><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td>Internal Problems</td><td>The Quran</td><td>The Quran(!)</td></tr><tr><td>Muhammad received the Quran from</td><td>Allah (Suras 53:2-18; 81:19-24) or The holy spirit (Suras 16:102; 26:192-194) or</td><td>Angels (Sura 15:8) or The Angel Gabriel (Sura 2:97)</td></tr><tr><td>Conflicting quotes</td><td>Sura 2:58</td><td>Sura 7:161</td></tr><tr><td>Where to face during prayer</td><td>Jerusalem (Suras 2:115, 144)</td><td>Mecca (Suras 2:115, 144)</td></tr><tr><td>The first to believe</td><td>Moses (Suras 6:14; 7:143)</td><td>Abraham (Suras 6:14; 7:143)</td></tr><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td>Mistakes regarding Christianity</td><td>The Quran</td><td></td></tr><tr><td>Jesus</td><td>was not the Son of God did not die for our sins was not crucified is not divine is not the Savior</td><td>(Suras 4:157; 5:19,75; 9:30)</td></tr><tr><td>The Trinity</td><td>Is the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son.</td><td>(Sura 5:73-75, 116) - 5:73 does not have "in a Trinity" in the original Arabic</td></tr><tr><td>Jesus' conception</td><td>God had sex with Mary to have a son.</td><td>(Suras 2:116; 6:100-101; 10:68; 16:57; 19:35; 23:91; 37:149; 43:16-19).</td></tr><tr><td>General</td><td>Christians pray toward Jerusalem</td><td>(Sura 2:144-145)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>The Messiah's name is Allah</td><td>(Sura 5:72)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Heaven is a place of wine and sex</td><td>(Suras 2:25; 4:57; 11:23; 47:15)</td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td></tr></table>
Other Oddities
The Quran claims that speeches were made by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Mary...and even Jesus that contain words (such as: "Muslim" and "Islam") that were in a totally unknown tongue and not invented for at least another 600 years (Suras 2:60, 126-128, 132-133, 260; 3:49-52, 67; 6:74-82; 7:59-63, 120-126 etc.).
Sura 20:87-95 records that the Israelites made the golden calf as suggested by "the Samaritan"(Samaritans did not come into existance for many centuries after the time of the golden calf).
Sura 18:84-86 informs us that the sun sets in a muddy spring.
Sura 22:5 explains that humans are formed from a clot of blood.
Sura 7:163-166 claims that an entire village population was turned into apes.
It would take several pages to list all of the material clearly taken from pre-Islamic sources: myths, stories, superstitions, and legends that were incorporated into the Quran... a book supposedly written by Allah without any human intervention.

Muhammad [pbuh], the Master of Prophets

glo

Has a heart bigger then all of

Jeff in BigD

Oldschool DISer

DVC~OKW~96

<font color=green>I'm not big on gold as a color.

betz

VIS Deteran

Miss Jasmine

Time for something new!<BR><font color=limegreen><

Saffron

Palm Tree Hugger

yasooa

Earning My Ears

yasooa

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jfulcer

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