*~* Muggles, Welcome to the Burrow! *~*

[N&B'smom]

I'll be back later, I've got some eyeballs to poke out.

Shelby

 

[BuckyFan04]

I don't think she should be freeing them without their consent - hiding the hats under clutter, etc.
.

Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with her freeing them without their consent.

On one hand, Dobby loves his freedom and is standing up for himself, but on the other hand you have Winky, who was absolutely miserable when she was freed by Crouch. Kreacher goes from Grimmauld Place to Bellatrix when Harry tells Kreacher to leave. So Kreacher doesn't seem to really want freedom; he goes to serve another master, one whom he wants to serve.

It probably differs from elf to elf whether or not they want freedom. Dobby's time under the Malfoy roof seemed pretty extreme and abusive though, and I don't think that Winky and Kreacher had to punish themselves like Dobby did. So maybe that is why Dobby is so appreciative of his freedom when compared to Winky.

It seems that a lot of elves are happy to be serving their masters, according to Winky. If they're happier serving their masters (and are being treated well, unlike how Dobby was treated), then maybe it doesn't matter that they don't know they're being repressed. Once they become aware that they're being repressed, however, then they may want to be freed. Hopefully the master will then free them or pay them or something along those lines to make the elf happy.

But I don't mind her trying to raise awareness of how they are treated, or speaking on behalf of one who ASKS to be freed

I agree with you.

 

[N&B'smom]

I just wanted to show off my new tag!!!

Shelby

 

[va32h]

Wow, even an admitted eyeball-poker gets a tag? There's hope for us all!

On house elves - I don't think most of them are treated well. Winky was forced up into the top box, although she is terrified of heights - Kreacher comes from a long line of elves that are beheaded when they are too old to work, and he doesn't seem to have any problem with that concept!

Kreacher is as loyal to his horrible family as the Hogwarts elves are to Dumbledore, who treats them well. And even Dumbledore does not give the Hogwarts elves clothes or salaries - only to Dobby, because he asked.

The elves appear to be bred to love and desire servitude. I don't think Dobby is the only elf that feels he has to punish himself when he disobeys his master.

 

[N&B'smom]

I never thought I'd get a Snape tag. I donated my other tag and this is what the Tag Fairy gave me.

Shelby

 

[N&B'smom]

Anyone hear anymore about the opening night of Equus last night??

Shelby

 

[BuckyFan04]

I never thought I'd get a Snape tag. I donated my other tag and this is what the Tag Fairy gave me.

Shelby

Haha..I love your tag! Snape has so many good lines.


Here are a couple of reviews of the opening of Equus:

http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/theatre/reviews/article2311389.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6403263.stm

 

[TurboKitty]

Thanks for posting those links to reveiws, BuckyFan04. I wonder if Dan learned about his craft from that part...it'll be interesting to see if he comes with a different approach to Harry in HBP.

Congrats on the tag, N&B'smom.

I think the hiding the hats to free the elves against their will is wrong, but can Hermione actually free them? Do they work for Hogwarts the institution, the headmaster of Hogwarts or just everyone at Hogwarts? Because unless it's the last one, Hermione can give them all the clothes she wants but it won't change their status one whit. (I do agree with her that they are exploited because of their nature, and should be paid etc...shouldn't she be working for a house elf re-education center?)

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I never thought I'd get a Snape tag. I donated my other tag and this is what the Tag Fairy gave me.

Shelby

Congratulations! I'm jealous-- I'd love a HP-related tag.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hey everyone - I just wanted to bump this thread up because in reading the rest of the CB - it's just so amazing how HP relates to everything!

I agree, JKR touches on some pretty universal situations in the wizarding world.

Regarding the house elves-- I believe they are magically controlled/bred to be happy to serve no matter the situation. I doubt the Blacks were kind to Kreacher but he is fiercely loyal! In my mind, the only explanation for this is either magic or mental instability. I remember reading that Harry was told that house elves are bound magically for their own protection-- or something along those lines. Dobby, even though he desired freedom, loves work and even begged Dumbledore for less pay and fewer days off.

I always thought Hermione's SPEW knit hat crusade was odd. How can the house elves clean (including laundry/picking up clothing) without accidentally being set free? Or do wizards do their own laundry but allow house elves to clean the toilet?

Picking up a stray hat seems too easy and Dobby would have been freed long ago if it was as simple as getting into Draco's sock drawer. I had a problem with Harry tricking Lucius into setting Dobby free-- Lucius was unaware and it was essentially an accident. I always thought the presentation of clothing was a formal event-- not a dirty sock tossed to the side.

It is interesting, though, that the house elves won't clean the Gryffindor common room because of the hats. I don't know if it is a fear of being set free as much as it is their overwhelming desire to work and be happy working. And I would think that only DD could set them free but maybe, being residents of Hogwarts, the students wield the same power-- the house elves do obey students as evidenced by the twin's forays into the kitchen for snacks.

I have heard some crack theories that make JKR out to be a racist due to her enslavement of house elves. I don't buy into that.

 

[holycow]

I don't think it is a matter of the house elves actually doing the laundry. I think it is the fact that your owner hands you a piece of clothing specifically for you.
Hermione making the hats specifically for the elves makes it a gift. You are right about the ownership though. Do they have to obey the students? (they don't ever see them unless it was Fred and George asking for food) Ummm...questions I'm sure will never be answered!

I just read an interview by JK and she said that even when HP was all done there would be plenty to discuss and argue over! I'm so afraid my questions won't be answered! lol


Does anyone know of any book groups reading HP right now? I was going to read one a month but here it is 3 weeks later and I'm on book 6. I mostly just like reading comments more than I do posting though.



HC

 

[BuckyFan04]

Thanks for posting those links to reveiws, BuckyFan04. I wonder if Dan learned about his craft from that part...it'll be interesting to see if he comes with a different approach to Harry in HBP.

You're welcome! Yes, it will be interesting to see if Dan changes his approach to Harry at all.

I agree with those who say that the clothing that the elf comes in contact with has to be given with the intention of freeing the elf.
Hmm...I'm unsure of who exactly has ownership over the Hogwarts elves as well. I'm thinking it's the headmaster of Hogwarts, but then the issue of Hermione's knit hats comes up.

 

[SueM in MN]

Kreacher goes from Grimmauld Place to Bellatrix when Harry tells Kreacher to leave. So Kreacher doesn't seem to really want freedom; he goes to serve another master, one whom he wants to serve.

Harry told Kreacher to go to Hogwarts to work with the other elves (his having to obey Harry was the 'proof' that Harry was Sirius' real heir and the real owner of Grimmauld Place.

I think the books said the clothing had to be given to the house elf from the hand of the master (which did fit Dobby's situation even though Mr. Malfoy was tricked into giving Dobby the sock).

I don't think the elves could be freed by picking up Hermione's hats; I think their reason for not cleaning the area where the hats are hidden is that they don't like her campaign to free them.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

nevermind... nothing to see here...

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I don't think the elves could be freed by picking up Hermione's hats; I think their reason for not cleaning the area where the hats are hidden is that they don't like her campaign to free them.

I would go as far as saying they are downright offended by it. That's how deeply ingrained their servitude is.

 

[N&B'smom]

Not that there was any doubt (in my mind anyway) but Daniel Radcliffe has signed on to do the last two films. Here's the story!

Shelby

Radcliffe to Reprise Harry Potter Role Mar 5, 5:36 PM (ET)

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Daniel Radcliffe has signed on to star in the final two "Harry Potter" films, Warner Bros. said Monday. Radcliffe, who plays the bespectacled schoolboy wizard in the Hollywood adaptations of J.K. Rowling's novels, will reprise the role in "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" and "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows."
Warner Bros. will release the fifth installment - "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" - on July 13, a week before the book "The Deathly Hallows" is released. The show dates for the last two movies haven't been announced.
Radcliffe, 17, is in the London stage production of "Equus," in which he plays a troubled stableboy who mutilates horses. The racy role is quite the departure for the teen known best as Harry Potter. In the play, Radcliffe swears, smokes and appears nude.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rupert Grint and Emma Watson better sign on as well!

In other HP movie related news-- spoilers and pre-reviews of the OOtP movie
here and here and also here via Mugglenet.com Also a review and some movie spoilers from Aintitcool.com here written, oddly enough, by somebody who has not read the book.

Sounds like quite a bit was cut out (it'd have to be a mini-series to fit it all in) but looks like there was some good casting! Imelda Stauton is going to be a perfect Umbridge and Luna and Bellatrix sound well cast, too!

 

[N&B'smom]

They better sign on! I enjoy them both, but I LOVE Ron. He's so funny. Of course, I love Fred and George even more.

Shelby

 

[poohbear919]

I'm sure all our main cast members will sign on - it's just a negotiations thing! I can't wait to see the movie - my cousin (17) can't either!

Anyhoo, I was reading a review the other day of the unfinished movie too and it was by someone who didn't read the book either... They noted that they found Prof. Umbridge entirely annoying - which I found amusing because that's the whole point of her... They must have done a nice job with this movie too! (They only seem to be getting better and better with each new one released!)

 

[BuckyFan04]

I hope Emma Watson and Rupert Grint both sign on as well! I read somewhere that Rupert has expressed desire to play Ron through to the end. So that's good news. It would be strange to have Dan acting as Harry with a different Ron or Hermione. The chemistry that those 3 actors have with each other would be ruined.

I was disappointed to hear that Snape gets barely any screentime in the movie. He's one of my favorite characters. He has a bigger part in the OOTP book. There's the fight with Sirius at Grimmauld Place, several Occlumency lessons, potions classes, and the part in Umbridge's office where Harry tries to tell Snape that Voldemort has Sirius at the Department of Mysteries.

I also wish they would use McGonagall a bit more.
Alan Rickman and Maggie Smith are phenomenal actors. They play their characters so well. Maggie Smith is exactly as I thought McGonagall to be.
Oh well, I know certain parts do have to be cut down, especially if they're not totally essential to the main plot. Snape should have a much bigger part in the next movie.

Oh, about Umbridge...yeah, she is supposed to be annoying. I can't stand her character. I loved it when she was carried off by the centaurs. I agree, poohbear919, they must have gotten her character down pretty well then.

I'm looking forward to seeing Luna and Bellatrix! I think the movie will be really good!