Move to Toronto?

[vhoffman]

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[bavaria]

Well, I have a US visa and work in the US quite often (German national) and I can assure you that Canada and the US are very very different.

Food - food products are different; items you can buy in the US you won't find in Canada and vice versa. I think that Canada has better diversity and fewer chains, which is a good thing. Also some more interesting chains than in the US

Income - expect less and realize that taxes are much higher. In general jobs in Canada pay less and are taxed higher, leaving Canadians with less disposable income. They spend less on 'stuff' than in America

Health care - is not free. I pay about $54/month which is far less than the 'free' health care we supposedly get in Germany. But that doesn't cover much. And wait times are much much longer. Some medications which are available for $2 a bottle at Target are by prescription only in Canada

Culture - very different. Canadians are proud of their heritage and are easily offended (Rightly so) by attempts to group them with Americans. Regional diversity and accents are something to be proud of. You probably won't understand the 'in' jokes for a long time

Politics - again, very different. Canadians enjoy a good political debate and don't get offended as easily as Americans seem to - I woudl never disucss politics with American colleagues but Canadian clients invite a good rousing debate over dinner

Canada is very different from America and proud of those differences.

 

[vhoffman]

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[bavaria]

I would dispute that cost of living is favourable to anywhere but the most rural areas of the US. Due to low population density, it costs more to ship items therefore costs are higher.

Vancouver and Toronto are two of the most expensive cities in the world. Compare Vancouver to San Francisco. Toronto is similar.

And again, it is disposable income that is the main factor. Food is much more expensive in Canada than in the US ie at the grocery store. So is fuel.

 

[vhoffman]

I would dispute that cost of living is favourable to anywhere but the most rural areas of the US. Due to low population density, it costs more to ship items therefore costs are higher.

Vancouver and Toronto are two of the most expensive cities in the world. Compare Vancouver to San Francisco. Toronto is similar.

And again, it is disposable income that is the main factor. Food is much more expensive in Canada than in the US ie at the grocery store. So is fuel.

Well, I thought the cost of living was comparable to San Francisco. I found a website that said the cost of living in Toronto was low. Well, in comparison to what?

 

[tone.def]

Well, I thought the cost of living was comparable to San Francisco. I found a website that said the cost of living in Toronto was low. Well, in comparison to what?

That website was crackers! Toronto has a VERY high cost of living. I grew up a couple hours east of Toronto and most of my friends still live back there. We make roughly the same amount incomewise and I live in a tiny condo and they have nice houses with gardens, lawns, driveways, porches! I could have that too, but I couldn't do my job back there... and wouldn't have the city live either ;o)

Here's a website that may help you:
http://www.canadaimmigrants.com/Torontoliving.asp

If you'd like to check the real estate market, try www.mls.ca

About living in Toronto:
http://www.cbc.ca/livingintoronto/index.php?page=main

 

[bavaria]

and I would dispute the language difference - Canadian English is very different from American English, in grammar, spelling and pronounciation. Yes, there is an understanding of each other, but language is not the same, just as Bavarian German is not the same as German.

 

[Joann]

I think you would like it here in Ontario Canada! About cost of living being higher.... ya it may be compared to some spots in the US but our min. wage here is also higher then the US full time we are now at 8 dollars to start. Health care is great here , ya we do pay into it but living here all our lives we don't really notice it being takin out of our pay in the taxes. Taxes ya are high!!!! and politics don't get alot of us started on that, but as in the US as here it's all the same BULL crap! Our winter really are no different then alot of the Places in the US that get snow, Buffalo actually gets more then us and Chicago is usually colder then Toronto! Our summer can be very HOT and humid ...

 

[kamanda]

We moved from the Dallas area to Toronto so I can provide some insight into your question.

PROS: Able to experience all 4 seasons (nothing like those Texas summers). Summers in Toronto are absolutely beautiful - temperature is great and there's lots to do. Very multicultural so you could experience many cultures without needing to travel outside of the city. Schools are excellent as there are a lot of good teachers - teachers here are paid much more than they are in the U.S. so there is additional incentive to stay with that job besides just loving teaching. People are very friendly and helpful. Overall very safe city.

CONS: Disposable income is definitely going to be less as cost of living is higher. There are not as many people driving luxury cars and house prices are at least twice of what you need to pay for the same equivalent house. Medical system is not very good - long waits if you ever need to visit emergency room. It was also a challenge for me to find a primary care physician.

There are times when we wish we could move back to the Dallas area but more often than not we like the excitement and culture that Toronto has to offer. Cost of living might be high but there are ways to make things work. Ex. tradeoff cheaper house for a longer commute.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Northstar]

About the tax issue (will we need to pay US tax?): you will need to file taxes for both US and Canada. Your money is taxed first in the country of origin EXCEPT for wages you earn while physically present in Canada, for which you pay income tax to Canada even if employed by a US company. To prevent double taxation, you each get to exclude up to US $82,000 in wages earned in Canada on your US return, and get to deduct taxes paid to the US on your Canadian return (this would be taxes on any investments you left in the US, for which you owe taxes in the US first) and taxes paid to Canada on your US return. It's complex but there's loads of US citizens in Canada who do it.


The worst thing is that Toronto is so far from Disney....

 

[ontario2orlando]

I'm an expat living in Ontario. I'm from Oklahoma originally. There are some major differences from back home. Don't be fooled by winter here. It is very unforgiving. If you like southern foods, you won't find them here. Everything costs more here and I'm not talking about exchange, just dollar to donuts.

So far, folks seem nice here. I've been here nearly seven years. Canadians are a very polite people. As anywhere there are bads to any culture.

Really, the only three gripes I have are cold, food, and prices. Other than that the Canadians have a good place to stay.

 

[tmli]

I am not going to get into the Canadian vs US debate but would like to offer my 2 cents of advice. The cost of living is considerably lower outside of Toronto...there are numerous smaller communities within an hours commute. I am not going to kid you the commute can be brutal but housing is considerably less.

 

[coastgirl]

Wow, what an interesting question.

I have a lot of American friends and the thing we really notice among us is healthcare (we all have young kids so fairly regular contact with health care). I am appalled by the cost of their health care, and that not everyone is covered, and they are appalled by my rationed access. So, it goes both ways.

I lived in the Toronto area about 15 years ago and still visit--my favourite part as another has said is the multicultural aspect. It is such a vibrant city. Not without its racial conflict, but lots of tolerance and respect too.

I quite believe the average Canadian is well off, certainly by international standards, but an affluent American might not have the "user pay" options they are used to up here. I.e., having to wait to see a specialist or have surgery...not having access to private schools (though Toronto is well served as I recall)...and it seems even the public schools in affluent US neighbourhoods are very well-resourced. Here, there's a more equal distribution of resources among schools (though don't underestimate the power of parent fundraisers and lobbyists) and the overall effect is good quality. (I used to teach in the Greater Toronto area.)

Language--I wouldn't worry unless you're working as an editor for the CBC. Really. Dialect and accent vary among all regions, and I don't think the border makes that much additional difference.

I don't know what your local real estate values are like; I know some US cities are really hot and others not, so you need to compare what YOU would expect to pay/find reasonable for housing. I live in a very cheap area for real estate (small town), but it's reflected in salaries, etc. By Cdn standards, Toronto is not cheap.

As for the disposable income thing, we are much more highly taxed, so there is less money to spend...but then we don't spend it on health insurance or schools the same way. Don't know how that would work in your situation, whether you'd be eligible for OHIP (health plan) or still have to pay...

Don't know if that helped, but it's a very interesting discussion, and I thank you for asking the question! Good luck in your research and decision making.

 

[Torontogal]

I live in Toronto (near the airport) and love this city. I lived in Montreal for 16yrs. and Toronto amazing. Never been to Texas but travel to the US all the time. Yes, it is different than most US cities but in a good way.
It is cleaner, much less crime, generally high standard of living and very multicultural. I live in an area with people from literally all over the world. Did you know that Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world? It is consistently rated as one of the world's most liveable cities. We got a lot of culture such as Caribana (Caribbean festival), Food Festival, the Toronto International Film Festival, Chinese New Year's, etc.
Honestly, don't think I could live anywhere else - and that is coming from a world traveller. The bad side - the weather! Actually, winters are cold but this is Canada and we all just live through it. Most of us just escape to Florida! There are short cold snaps and the Wind Chill Factor can be dreadful! However our weather is moderate compared to most Canadian cities due to our southern location. Luckily, we get lots of sunshine which is great.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Torontogal]

By the way, when you do get here - you might want to look at this site --

How to Tell You are in Canada - An American's Guide
http://emily.icomm.ca/how.html

 

[Torontogal]

This is a list of sure signs that you're in Canada.

Everything is labelled in English and French.

Everything is measured in metric. (No, the temperature does not drop fifty degrees when you cross the border, and the speed limit doesn't double.)

Milk comes in plastic bags as well as in cartons and jugs.

There's hockey gear everywhere. A guy can get onto a bus wearing goalie pads, a helmet -- everything but the skates -- and nobody gives him a second look.

Restaurants serve vinegar with French fries.

There are $1 and $2 coins. The paper currency is in different colors, and it's pretty.

The CBC's evening news anchor is bald and doesn't wear a toupee.

Contests run by anyone other than the government have "skill-testing questions" that winners must answer correctly before they can claim a prize.

The big mass-market beers are Molson and Labatt, and they're stronger than US beers.

There are lots and lots of do(ugh)nut shops, especially ones called Tim Horton's (named after the hockey player who started the chain).

When you step on someone's foot, he apologizes. (This really happened.)

There are billboards advertising vacations in Cuba, and Cuban cigars are freely available.

 

[bavaria]

Have you considered both the current and future tax implications? (I file in 3 countries)

You will need to ensure that you understand the future ie retirement implications. Make sure that you understand any taxes which may need to be paid in future on retirement income from another source (ie if you retire in the US and are paid CPP)

Also understand if you are going to contribute to an RRSP or continue to contribute to a 401k or IRA.

Understand the visa situation. If your spouse is on a visa which allows him/her to be employed, you may not necessarily be able to work yourself.

I strongly recommend finding a financial advisor who is well versed in tax implications for foreign income (not always easy to find) and an immigration specialist who understands foreign immigration rules (again, not always easy to find)

 

[bavaria]

There are billboards advertising vacations in Cuba, and Cuban cigars are freely available.

Lindt chocolate produces a line of chocolate under the name Madagascar, Cuba, etc. They don't sell the Cuba bar in the US.....

 

[bavaria]

Now on to the kids...

Make sure that you understand any implications on an education savings plan.

If they start university in Canada, will the credits be recognized in the US educational system if they transfer midstream?

Will the tax system allow them to claim student benefits for foreign university? (I fought CRA for 2 years for my foreign costs)

If they want to go to a US school, will they be recognized as foreign students?

 

[bavaria]

And for anyone who may call me harsh, I'm not - I'm just trying to present all things to consider

I have lived in many countries throughout my life, and highly recommend it. But I have also seen bad things happen

• I have a colleague from Germany who made a life for herself in the US but never managed to get a Green Card; after many years the govt refused to renew her visa and she had to leave the country, devastated
• I know many ppl who emigrated from Germany to Canada, with the intent to retire in Germany. Due to significant changes in the health care, they can no longer afford to do so. Some are widows who ended up marrying again late in life to have a German husband to supplement their benefits
• the tax laws have changed in Canada recently; a lot of retirees who emigrated mid-life and are getting foreign income/pension are being taxed when they had planned on it being tax free
  
• I've seen expat wives or husbands who can't work become bored or isolated in their new lives and marriages break off
• I know people who emigrated and didn't realize the financial and cultural implications beforehand and were miserable in their new lives

Again, I'm not trying to scare anyone off the emigrant lifestyle, but there are many many things to consider.

In general, it is easier to emigrate when one is young, with no dependents (ie spouse or children)