More updated Fastpass+ information

[MikeandReneePlus5]

No one has stated officially that regular FP is going away, however they have definitively stated in the original official announcement that you have to chose either regular FP OR FP+. That is a fact we know. If you chose the band you no longer have a KTTW card to use regular FP.

ah, I see. Makes sense of course, you can't stuff your band in a FP machine.

well hopefully they rework the FP machines so the features of the current system remain in the FP+/MMY+ world.

If they don't, I will be BUMMED OUT.

 

[BeccaG]

That's the thought that keeps giving me the most hope that this won't be the disaster that so many here are seem to think it will be - despite the lack of any confirmed details.

They gain absolutely nothing having guests standing in SB lines all day. If everyone spends tons more time in SB lines, spending per guest will be down as well as guest satisfaction. They know this. So that's why I'm reserving judgement until we know more.

Me too!

 

[BeccaG]

Ok, a bit off topic but fwiw, i am a middle of the road Disney planner (my family things i crazy plan some on these boards would find me ubber disorganized.) I am a casual fp user at WDW, as a west coaster rarely make rope drop with 2 small kids. But on top of that some of you are listing rides, like Pan that doesn't even have FP at dland so i had no idea it had FP at WDW. Of course i never tried to ride it at WDW because I just ride it when I'm at dland. (guess i need to go find a list of fast pass rides!) All that to say, I think I'm probably your more average WDW guest and will probably spend less time in line now... Which is what they are going for... I think. Someone earlier mentioned averaging out the wait times .. And I'm guessing their research confirmed this.

On the flipside, those who get more than 3-5 fast passes seem to be the minority and those who get none seem to exist as well. If that pattern continues some will not have any fast passes, if they don't get them in the park now, they're not going online! So I doubt standby lines will get crazy worse, or heads will certainly roll and I bet many of you who are in the parks then will benefit from those early fp spots that weren't filled.

I know I'm not saying anything new! Wanted to throw my two cents in that I see folks concerns for sure but think this might be good for my family.

 

[texhanddoc]

First post on a FP+ thread. Woot!

I just can't imagine that Disney, in its omniscient wisdom (/sarcasm sort of) would limit someone in this way.

Lets say you have an older family, no young kids. You don't need a break and can go all day. You arrive at lets say MK at 9am. Hang out there until 4 or 5pm (7-8 hours) and then hop into Epcot or DHS.

I can't imagine that Disney would say for this family "you get 3 fastpasses for the entire day at one park only!" So you use 3 fastpasses in MK in 8 hours? If done correctly, you can easily use 3 FPs now before LUNCH! Then when you hop into DHS or Epcot or whatever, you get NONE? So you stay in DHS till 10pm or so (another 5 hours) with NO fastpasses? I just dont see the wisdom in getting everyone to stand in standby lines. It helps no one. Visitors are mad and Disney doesn't get money because you are in a line and not in a store or eatery.

I am probably being naive and trusting in Disney too much, but I just can't imagine that they would hamstring someone visiting their parks to that extent.

 

[Missyrose]

ah, I see. Makes sense of course, you can't stuff your band in a FP machine.

well hopefully they rework the FP machines so the features of the current system remain in the FP+/MMY+ world.

If they don't, I will be BUMMED OUT.

They won't be. The CMs on these boards have said the old FP machines will not get RFID scanners. So once the roll out of RFID ticket media is complete, say goodbye to those machines.

I'm with Janet in believing there will be ways to get FPs in the park (like the old system) once FP+ rolls out.

 

[Tomh]

I really am fascinated by the technology. When I read the patents it made me realize what a powerful system this could be, and I think it really exceeds anything most people are imagining now, because we're so tied to the old way of doing things.

Or maybe I just drank the Kool-Aid.

It sounds to me like you have a really good understanding of exactly what this system is capable of, and I think you are right on the money.

Disney is in the business of making money. You don't make money from hot, tired, cranky guests that just spent two hours standing in line for a ride. The current system DOES work, BUT . . . how many times have you told someone about fastpass, and had them reply "I can't afford that" or something to that effect. Not enough people make use of it. Disney is putting in place a system that should draw far more people into using the FP system, and will give them additional control over lines.

Additionally, it gives them more opportunities for marketing merchandise. More over, it potentially gives them a tool for controlling the flow of guests in the park. If Fantasyland is a giant mess, you start offering up FP's via mobile magic to attractions in Adventureland, or Tomorrowland, or any place but Fantasyland and thin out the crowds there a bit. Get people onto rides, into stores, etc.

Apply the same technology to restaurants. Liberty Tree Tavern has empty tables, send some tips via mobile magic that there are tables open RIGHT NOW. Send them to people who are already in the area, and who haven't purchased a meal recently and don't already have an ADR. The system could potentially even look at DDP, figure that you don't have a TS ressie that day, that you have TS credits which you haven't made an ADR for. The possibilities are really limitless .. . . . or at least, only limited by Disney's IT department

Although failure is always an options (thanks Mythbusters) I am cautiously optimistic that this could turn into a VERY cool thing!

 

[3happydancers]

People may not have smartphones or iPod's (I know we don't-not in our daily budget) or may not want to experience their vacation with a device in hand for hours at a time. And spending time rushing to a kiosk to wait on ANOTHER line does not excite my family one bit. Personally, I feel this to be a punishment for those who cannot afford fancy devices, but pay the same price for onsite lodging and tickets. Just my own feelings on the Fastpass+ (though we are trying to keep an open mind). Ultimately, time will tell. We'll give it a go. If we don't like it, then we simply move on. Disney will never be short visitors so our decision will not impact the World one bit. We'll just do what is best for us.

Very intelligent comment. I think what many have to realize is that, Disney does not have to please everyone, and they don't have to please any one specific person, they just have to please enough people to be profitable.

Many veteran goers might not like the changes but I am sure there will be enough that do like it, to make it successful and that is all that matters.

You are so very right! Disney will do whatever it takes to push them to the next level. We are truly hoping once Disney has this new system in place, we will adjust and love it. Our next visit is late August so we are not sure if we will have the opportunity to use Fastpass+ as we do not know when Disney will officially introduce the new system. In one way we hope the new system is not up and running for we are among the veterans and like things the way they are, and change does not come easy. At the same time, we are anxious to learn if the new system works for our family so we know where we stand. You see, we are also DVC members, so these changes will have a great impact on what we do. I suppose we could still use the membership and venture out, but we really purchased the vacation club to be used at the World.

 

[dadddio]

People may not have smartphones or iPod's (I know we don't-not in our daily budget) or may not want to experience their vacation with a device in hand for hours at a time. And spending time rushing to a kiosk to wait on ANOTHER line does not excite my family one bit. Personally, I feel this to be a punishment for those who cannot afford fancy devices, but pay the same price for onsite lodging and tickets. Just my own feelings on the Fastpass+ (though we are trying to keep an open mind). Ultimately, time will tell. We'll give it a go. If we don't like it, then we simply move on. Disney will never be short visitors so our decision will not impact the World one bit. We'll just do what is best for us.

People happily go to the current FP kiosks. FP+ merely gives you more options since you can go to the kiosks or use your phone or Internet-enabled device.

 

[dadddio]

Yup, I agree you would be able to replace it with a different attraction, I can't imagine one not bring able to.
The point I was making, which I didn't elaborate on ( I should proof read more) was that for parades it would be only that one show, so some guests would feel annoyed, Disney can't control the weather so it's out of their hands. Some guests may feel they've wasted a FP+ slot.
The rides/attractions will be there all day but the parade is only once or twice per day.

I suspect that those dissatisfied customers would be just as unhappy if they didn't have a FP for the parade that got cancelled.

 

[TexasErin]

I'm at WDW right now and the last few days when we've made rope drop or close to it, we've managed to do about 8-10 rides and be out of the park by noonish. For example today at DHS we did R&RC twice, TSM twice, Star Tours twice, Indianna Jones, Little Mermaid, Pirates walk through, then had lunch and were walking out the park by noon. The other day at MK we did BTM twice, space Mountain x3, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Buzz x2 had lunch and then left shortly after noon. At no time did we enter a standby line that had more than a 10-15 minute wait and we were constantly using FP and getting the next one as soon as we could. We had excellent mornings and thought we got a lot done without ever having to wait in a long line.

Now if the new FP+ let's me do that and then book more FP for in the evening then great, but if I can't get at least 8-10 rides of my choice and not stand in line for more than 15 max at a time, I'm not going to be happy. If I decide the value that Disney provides is no longer there, than I'm more than happy to go to Universal and use their Express Pass.

Of course none of this matters in the least if the IT department can't get their act together and get this working. From what I've seen, Disney must have the worst IT department of any major corporation.

I couldn't have said it better- and couldn't agree more. The only time we went to Universal was in 2011, but we stayed at Hard Rock and LOVED being able to just walk on to every ride (except Forbidden Journey). I could easily go back and ride The Mummy over and over and over!

And anyone who thinks that the guest experience will be enhanced by only getting to ride a favorite ride ONCE per day or else have to wait in a standby line for an hour definitely has a different definition of enhanced than I do! And if it's only THREE FPs per day AND you can only get one FP for an E-ticket tier, we'll definitely be going less to WDW and spending at LOT less at WDW. While I LOVE WDW, I will be speaking with my wallet.

 

[mom2rtk]

I suspect that those dissatisfied customers would be just as unhappy if they didn't have a FP for the parade that got cancelled.

It is quite possible there could be one tiny little detail that would make this a very different experience under FP+.

Right now the only thing you can do is stick your card in and get what the machine spits out. If the kiosk gives you any choice on times and attractions, that will make this into a very different experience. One indecisive person in front of you could take more time than many many more in a traditional fastpass line. Imagine a group of 10 who can't agree on which attraction, let alone what time.

If I didn't have a smart phone already, this would send me off to plunk down my money on a new phone before my next trip.

 

[Brian Noble]

Now if the new FP+ let's me do that and then book more FP for in the evening then great, but if I can't get at least 8-10 rides of my choice and not stand in line for more than 15 max at a time, I'm not going to be happy.

The new system is not intended to make you (or me) happy, Doug. It's intended for the family who shows up at 11AM, without a real idea for how to tour the parks---which is to say, the vast majority of Disney's customers. After all, the reason our touring style works is only because the vast majority doesn't know how to do it. All of those families will be a little better served by FP+, and correspondingly enjoy their visit more. That's the goal. Because ride capacity is fixed, that necessarily means the "extreme tourers" like you and me will be getting less.

Get used to it, because it's a done deal, and it's good for Disney's business.

That doesn't mean there won't still be opportunities to tour efficiently---there will be. But, you won't be doing it by collecting a bunch of FPs.

 

[BeccaG]

The new system is not intended to make you (or people like you, e.g. me) happy, Doug. It's intended for the family who shows up at 11AM, without a real idea for how to tour the parks---which is to say, the vast majority of Disney's customers. After all, the reason our touring style works is only because the vast majority doesn't know how to do it. All of those families will be a little better served by FP+, and correspondingly enjoy their visit more. That's the goal. Because ride capacity is fixed, that necessarily means the "extreme tourers" will be getting less.

Get used to it, because it's a done deal, and it's good for Disney's business.

That doesn't mean there won't still be opportunities to tour efficiently---there will be. But, you won't be doing it by collecting a bunch of FPs.

thank you for saying what I was thinking and for saying it so well!

 

[mom2rtk]

The new system is not intended to make you (or me) happy, Doug. It's intended for the family who shows up at 11AM, without a real idea for how to tour the parks---which is to say, the vast majority of Disney's customers.

I see it the same way. It is geared toward low information riders.

 

[doggydoc]

Get used to it, because it's a done deal, and it's good for Disney's business.

If that is their thinking I just feel it is very short-sighted. For this system to make anyone happy they first need to be drawn to the park, and more importantly to Disney, stay onsite. If this goes forward in the form feared I think Universal will have a fantastic marketing opportunity when comparing the programs. Why stay on-site at Disney for a meager 3 FP's per day in 1 park when you can get Unlimited Express on-site at Universal? They have already broken ground on at least 1 new onsite hotel and I bet more are to come.

Another aspect they can't, or shouldn't, ignore is the impact the "superusers" have on encouraging others to go to Disney. If they make us unhappy they lose that. If all the regulars on this and other boards are sorely disappointed by the new system it has a great potential for becoming the new internet meme. How will Disney spin it when "well Disney blew this one" starts showing up all over FB, Twitter and Instagram? Won't that be seen by exactly the demographis they claim to be trying to reach?

 

[glamdring269]

We love the current system but I'm not going to pass judgment on this until I hear about it in action and experience it for myself in October (assuming it's live then). We're early risers and tend to take advantage of AM EMH so one benefit I could see to this is pushing people into the parks later if they think it's no longer necessary to get there before the crowds in order to ride the busier attractions. Granted that might result in EMH getting axed but if that happens then surely Disney would offer some new perk for on-site guests that would hopefully offset the loss (extra FP+ perhaps?).

Ultimately no one really has the entire picture at this point so there's no point in worrying too much about it. Definitely fun to theorize and discuss though.

 

[Brian Noble]

I see it the same way. It is geared toward low information riders.

Exactly---and, it's important to remember that "low information" guests make up the lion's share of the visitors.

Here's one way to think about this; consider Toy Story Midway Mania. After a few minutes with google, I've seen hourly capacity numbers ranging from 800 to 1200. Let's take the middle as a good guess, or 1,000 riders per hour. An "average" Studios day is 12 hours long (9-7 or 8 in the offseason, 9-10 when it's busy) So, you're looking at 12,000 rides in an average day.

The annual Studios attendance in 2011 was just a shade under 9.7M guests. That's an average of about 26,575 guests per day.

So, even if no one ever rides twice, fewer than half of the people who enter the Studios gates on any given day can possibly ride Toy Story.

In the current system, most DISers can pretty easily grab three rides on TSMM in a day without waiting more than about 15 minutes each, using at least two FPs. For every one of us, that's another couple guests who won't be riding Toy Story that day.

In the new system, that will no longer be the case. We will get to reserve at most one FP+ for Toy Story. We might also get there at rope drop. Want to ride it a third time? You'll be waiting---and most of us probably won't wait. Heck, some of us might not even try to ride TSMM twice because we probably won't be able to FP+ all three of TSMM, Tower, and Coaster, so the one (or two) we can't FP+ will have to be at rope drop or will incur a wait.

But, in exchange, an extra two families will now get to experience TSMM without waiting an hour (or longer). They are a lot happier. We are a little less happy, but probably not so much less happy that large numbers of us decide not to return. After all, we'll still probably be able to ride most everything we want, but we might wait a little bit longer once in a while, and/or we won't be riding each of the headliners 2-3 times each day. But, we'll be doing other fun things instead, so it won't be so bad.

From where I sit, it's really that simple. FP+ is, primarily, a way to "spread the wealth" to more guests rather than concentrate it among the people who know how to work the system. That stinks if you know how to work the system, but by definition, most people don't. Overall, a win for Disney, and most guests---not us, of course---but most.

 

[Brian Noble]

If that is their thinking I just feel it is very short-sighted.

Every time Disney has ever done something that We Fans have hated, We Fans have predicted the imminent demise of WDW. That happened when EMH was cut from 3 hours to 2. That happens every time they increase ticket prices faster than inflation. That happened when they started enforcing return times on Fastpasses. Many threaten never to come back. Few follow through on the threats.

So far, it's worked out pretty well for Disney.

 

[Robo]

Overall, a win for Disney, and most guests---not us, of course---but most.

Your numbers don't support the "most guests" theory.

You can't say that "most guests" don't understand how to ride,
AND THEN
say that situation will be solved (or exhibit a major improvement)
by folding in just 2 more rides for the uninformed,
from the "very few" who now understand the current system.

The " 'Super Users' are not liked by Disney" theory is an empty charge.

 

[dadddio]

So I'm supposed to be happy that because I can no longer get more than one fastpass for Space Mountain, the line standby line will be shorter when I take my repeat trip?

No. A greater number of people are likely to be happy because more people get FPs and the standby line is shorter. Any individual person may or may not be happier.

I guess I can only be happy that I have the sort of phone that allows me to swap out batteries when mine is low, and that I won't be sitting somewhere for an extended period of time waiting for it to recharge.

You can also either use the kiosks or do what lots of others already do and pick up a travel battery/charger and toss it in with you park gear. If your phones battery gets low, you just plug it into this gizmo and keep moving.