More updated Fastpass+ information

[dadddio]

No one has stated officially that regular FP is going away, however they have definitively stated in the original official announcement that you have to chose either regular FP OR FP+. That is a fact we know. If you chose the band you no longer have a KTTW card to use regular FP.

The mere fact that your band isn't compatible with the old FP machines doesn't mean that there will not be a same-day FP option. This is especially true given that they have actually stated that FPs will be available 'same day'.

 

[dadddio]

I doubt you actually meant it that way but you just illustrated one of the barriers of having a logical discussion on this board. Many on here think that "well thought out, and rational" and "critical of Disney" are mutaully exclusive.

It should also be noted that it is human nature to equate the concepts of 'well thought out and rational' with 'agrees with me'.

 

[hazlnut]

Question about Disneyland Fastpass policy:

I had heard that they were being very strict with return times and not allowing people in the FP line if they were more than 15 mins past the time on the FP ticket.

Is this the case?

 

[Brian Noble]

The " 'Super Users' are not liked by Disney" theory is a straw dog.

I think you mean "strawman" here.

But, the precise numbers don't really matter much. The practical effect of the system is exactly what I've described. No one will be riding the headliners more than once or twice a day without waiting in a non-trivial line. Those who do that now won't be able to later, and that means someone else will get to instead.

For the super-headliners, the effect is more drastic. In the current system, if you aren't in the park in the first several hours of operation, you are not riding the super-headliners at all without waiting. At the very best, your ability to use the FP system is severely curtailed, because all super-headliner return times are more than two hours out.

FP+ changes both of those things. Disney believes that, on balance, overall guest satisfaction will increase---and increase substantially, because this all cost them $1B, and they expect to make that back. Some DISers believe that, on balance, overall guest satisfaction will not increase, either because negative sentiment will outweigh positive sentiment, or that it just won't make a difference either way.

Time will tell who is right. If I were a betting man, I'd go with the guys who risked $1B rather than the armchair CEOs.

Edited to add: apparently I was wrong about the straw dog thing. (Warning: NSFK)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=straw dog

 

[Robo]

Question about Disneyland Fastpass policy:

I had heard that they were being very strict with return times and not allowing people in the FP line if they were more than 15 mins past the time on the FP ticket.

Is this the case?

Correct. Just started doing so within the last 30 days, or so.

(In preparation of FP+ coming to California parks sometime after implementation at WDW.)

 

[Robo]

I think you mean "strawman" here.

Yes.

 

[Robo]

1- Time will tell who is right.

If I were a betting man,

2- I'd go with the guys who risked $1B

3- rather than the armchair CEOs.

1- Agreed.

2- Since we don't know exactly what all that amounts to...

3- That includes both me AND you.

 

[Brian Noble]

Correct. Just started doing so within the last 30 days, or so.

As it happens, my DLR vacation started just the day before they started enforcement. It was President's Week, too, so the parks were pretty busy. Of course, the Disneyland fansites predicted mass revolts and chaos, but it went surprisingly well. I did not see any confrontations at FP Return lines, nor were there hordes of people swarming guest services.

We're heading to DLRP this summer. Apparently, Paris' FP return windows are only 30 minutes long, rather than an hour, and strictly enforced with no grace period.

3- That includes both me AND you.

No doubt. I don't know for sure. But, I can play the odds.

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

They won't be. The CMs on these boards have said the old FP machines will not get RFID scanners. So once the roll out of RFID ticket media is complete, say goodbye to those machines.

I'm with Janet in believing there will be ways to get FPs in the park (like the old system) once FP+ rolls out.

Aren't current tickets bought thru Disney RFID? If you use RFID ticket to enter the gate, aren't guests using the same ticket/RFID/KTTW to presently obtain a FP?

 

[mesaboy2]

Aren't current tickets bought thru Disney RFID? If you use RFID ticket to enter the gate, aren't guests using the same ticket/RFID/KTTW to presently obtain a FP?

Currently, yes. Ultimately, no.

Existing RFID tix have both RFID and a mag stripe to maintain compatibility with legacy systems. The mag stripe is not expected to remain by the time the transition is over.

 

[Brian Noble]

If you use RFID ticket to enter the gate, aren't guests using the same ticket/RFID/KTTW to presently obtain a FP?

Yes. But the Magic Bands won't be able to.

 

[Robbi]

I'm at WDW right now and the last few days when we've made rope drop or close to it, we've managed to do about 8-10 rides and be out of the park by noonish. For example today at DHS we did R&RC twice, TSM twice, Star Tours twice, Indianna Jones, Little Mermaid, Pirates walk through, then had lunch and were walking out the park by noon. The other day at MK we did BTM twice, space Mountain x3, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Buzz x2 had lunch and then left shortly after noon. At no time did we enter a standby line that had more than a 10-15 minute wait and we were constantly using FP and getting the next one as soon as we could. We had excellent mornings and thought we got a lot done without ever having to wait in a long line.

Now if the new FP+ let's me do that and then book more FP for in the evening then great, but if I can't get at least 8-10 rides of my choice and not stand in line for more than 15 max at a time, I'm not going to be happy. If I decide the value that Disney provides is no longer there, than I'm more than happy to go to Universal and use their Express Pass.

Of course none of this matters in the least if the IT department can't get their act together and get this working. From what I've seen, Disney must have the worst IT department of any major corporation.

This is my concern. If the Disney website is an example of their IT dept, YIKES on FP+.

Agree...but think the big money to gain is in resort stays and that is why I am waiting to see what tiered system will result....will on-site users get extra FPs, get to book first so will get the coveted afternoon FPs...there has to be some compelling perk for resort guests in the works to off set EMH and free dining...just not sure what it will be....I am guessing it will be more FPs and earlier booking of them...but I'm not a marketer

Take DVC for example. Until the last couple of years, those who bought points from companies other than Disney were still afforded the same rights as those of us who bought directly through Disney. Now, the "offsite" purchasers had limited benefits to their membership. I'm thinking WDW will allow onsite guests more FPs plus I think it will become a tiered system depending upon resort level. Eventually, I also think Disney will have an option to pay for extra FPs.
We are DVC members who sometimes stay using cash reservations if we're low on points. On these trips, I would stay at a mod instead of deluxe and use the extra $$$ to pay for a VIP tour. We would have some FPs to use but we would also have a day where we could hit all of our favorites in each park and not have to worry.

 

[johde]

I'm at WDW right now and the last few days when we've made rope drop or close to it, we've managed to do about 8-10 rides and be out of the park by noonish. For example today at DHS we did R&RC twice, TSM twice, Star Tours twice, Indianna Jones, Little Mermaid, Pirates walk through, then had lunch and were walking out the park by noon.

The trouble at least in Disney's mind is "What about the person who likes to sleep in on vacation, eat an expensive character meal and strolls into DHS Right now 1:00 on the Saturday. If MyDisneyExperience can be trusted, they are looking at the following
Ride Wait Fast Pass
Star Tours 10 min 1:35 - 2:35
TSMM 80 min 7:40 - 8:40 (shocked they are still available at all)
TOT 80 min 2:10-3:10 (Something doesn't look right)
RNR 90 min. 5:05-6:05

They are looking at a very different park that you admittedly would be getting ready to leave. Their looking at long wait times. At best they are probably looking at 2 short lines maybe 3 If they snag the TSMM FP they may not be able to get another before they are gone and if they snag a different FP TSMM will definitely be gone before they can grab another.

Those that do RD are still going to be at an advantage with FP+. But it's going to limit the ability of those people to get 2 quick rides in the morning then a third one in the afternoon on the same ride.

 

[doggydoc]

I think you mean "strawman" here.

But, the precise numbers don't really matter much. The practical effect of the system is exactly what I've described. No one will be riding the headliners more than once or twice a day without waiting in a non-trivial line. Those who do that now won't be able to later, and that means someone else will get to instead.

For the super-headliners, the effect is more drastic. In the current system, if you aren't in the park in the first several hours of operation, you are not riding the super-headliners at all without waiting. At the very best, your ability to use the FP system is severely curtailed, because all super-headliner return times are more than two hours out.

I think the point was that you cant's say 1) that the "super-user" group numbers are not significant enough for Disney to consider them while assessing overall guest satisfaction then 2) that curtailing their activities will make a large enough impact on ride wait times to be a difference.

FP+ changes both of those things. Disney believes that, on balance, overall guest satisfaction will increase---and increase substantially, because this all cost them $1B, and they expect to make that back. Some DISers believe that, on balance, overall guest satisfaction will not increase, either because negative sentiment will outweigh positive sentiment, or that it just won't make a difference either way.

The $1B is for the overall RFID implementation. FP+ is just a very small part of it. The overall scheme is brilliant, that doesn't mean this part couldn't be severely flawed.

Time will tell who is right. If I were a betting man, I'd go with the guys who risked $1B rather than the armchair CEOs.

New Coke.

 

[dadddio]

If that is their thinking I just feel it is very short-sighted. For this system to make anyone happy they first need to be drawn to the park, and more importantly to Disney, stay onsite. If this goes forward in the form feared I think Universal will have a fantastic marketing opportunity when comparing the programs. Why stay on-site at Disney for a meager 3 FP's per day in 1 park when you can get Unlimited Express on-site at Universal? They have already broken ground on at least 1 new onsite hotel and I bet more are to come.

Another aspect they can't, or shouldn't, ignore is the impact the "superusers" have on encouraging others to go to Disney. If they make us unhappy they lose that. If all the regulars on this and other boards are sorely disappointed by the new system it has a great potential for becoming the new internet meme. How will Disney spin it when "well Disney blew this one" starts showing up all over FB, Twitter and Instagram? Won't that be seen by exactly the demographis they claim to be trying to reach?

You are assuming that those who love the change won't say as much on FB, twitter, and Instagram.

 

[Brian Noble]

1) that the "super-user" group numbers are not significant enough for Disney to consider them while assessing overall guest satisfaction

That isn't the entirety of my argument, though. The rest is: super-users will not be so angry in dropping to fewer wait-free rides on each headliner that they will follow through on (empty) threats to never come back.

And, the evidence bears that out so far. After all, that is also precisely the impact of FP return window enforcement: you can no longer waltz into MK at 6PM with a pocket full of FPs that you pulled at 9-12:30 AM that day. Many in the Disneyana community predicted that would be a huge huge mistake, and a disastrous decision. It wasn't. True, I'm not riding each of the Mountains as many times as I might have pre-enforcement, but the things I'm doing instead are still fun. In fact, I have to admit that my trips are even more enjoyable, because I'm doing a wider variety of things in a day. I did not expect that at all, and was very pleasantly surprised by it.

New Coke.

That example is almost 30 years old. It is the exception that proves the rule.

 

[DougEMG]

The new system is not intended to make you (or me) happy, Doug. It's intended for the family who shows up at 11AM, without a real idea for how to tour the parks---which is to say, the vast majority of Disney's customers. After all, the reason our touring style works is only because the vast majority doesn't know how to do it. All of those families will be a little better served by FP+, and correspondingly enjoy their visit more. That's the goal. Because ride capacity is fixed, that necessarily means the "extreme tourers" like you and me will be getting less.

Get used to it, because it's a done deal, and it's good for Disney's business.

That doesn't mean there won't still be opportunities to tour efficiently---there will be. But, you won't be doing it by collecting a bunch of FPs.

I agree with you that the new system is not intended for people like me. Once it is rolled out, I'll certainly look at maximizing my usage with it. All I'm saying is that I expect to be able to get a certain level of entertainment out of my time and money, the current system provides me that value and if the new system doesn't then I'd have to re-evaluate where my time and money goes. Who knows maybe I'm not the kind of customer that Disney wants.

I'm still hoping that they are going to tier the benefits based on the resort you are staying at, plus I'll go with rope drop in the morning and book FP+ for the evening. If I'm lucky I'll get to do as much as I do now.

Now my wife never does rope drop, so being able to pre-book FP+ is a big benefit for her.

 

[interstate70s]

New Coke.

Or Disney California Adventure 1.0

Full of replicas of CA landmarks in a park mainly visited by Californians.

 

[Brian Noble]

One of the other things that comes to mind: there is a very nice analysis on why three is the magic number---but it assumes that everyone uses FP+. Will everyone do so? Maybe. Maybe not. Sticking to three is a conservative decision: even if every single guest uses FP+ to the fullest, they won't "run out" for anyone. You might not get your first choice, but you'll get *something*.

But, what if some guests don't bother to figure it out and use it? How many will that be? Disney doesn't know yet. Clearly lots of people haven't figured out Fastpass and don't use it, but FP+ will probably be easier. But, if the number of "non-users" is non-trivial, you can imagine the total number of FP+ experiences that it is possible to schedule increasing.

 

[Brian Noble]

Or Disney California Adventure 1.0

I know it's fashionable to call the original an abject failure, but it drew 5-6M guests per year from '08 to '11. That's not as much as any of WDW's four parks, but it was higher than any non-Disney US park save IoA post-Potter. That's not a bad failure.

With the addition of RSR, WOC, etc., it now reportedly draws nearly equal to Disneyland---which is an insane success. Some of that is cannibalism from Disneyland, but a good chunk of it is new guests. RSR was only open for half of 2012, but in 2013 it will almost certainly pass Epcot, and it might even pass Tokyo DisneySea. If it does, it will be the best-attended amusement park worldwide without a castle in it.