More Neighbour Woes

[Bonnie151]

I'm not going to have any friends left at this rate (posted back in December how my next door neighbour isn't speaking to me because I asked her to not block my drive with her bins)!

So Saturday my DS(8) & DD(5) were outside playing with some other neighbourhood kids. At some point it became DS, DD & 2 brothers (9) playing hidey tig (half hide & seek and half tag) in a little wooded bit next to the house. They started mucking about and all three boys started to try to get DD to pull her pants down. NOW, I'm NOT saying anything bad was happening, they were just mucking about and DD was playing along too. However, when she came home and told us, we disciplined DS because it's completely inappropriate play and he knows better. DD also got the lecture about appropriate & inappropriate behaviour. I told the other boys off as well and they apologised and agreed it wouldn't happen again. I left it at that - not overly alarmed but feeling as though we'd handled it.

Fast forward to today when the same boys come by again and start calling DD various homophobic names which I can't post here. At that point I'd had enough and went round to speak to their dad. The boys said he wouldn't come to the door because he was working so I gave them another lecture (got a "but she was annoying us") and asked them to send their dad round when he was done working.

By 5:00 there'd been no sign of the dad so I went back round. The dad was really nice (he had no idea I'd been round earlier!) and I emphasised that I knew Saturday was just mucking about but DD is very little and it's inappropriate, as was the name calling of today. I said I'd disciplined DS for his involvement, could the dad have a word with his boys? I kept it very light - he was fine and said he'd speak to them.

I thought we were all fine, but then this evening along marches the mum, boys in tow, to tell DH & I that she's spoken to both boys separately and they deny everything, saying it was just DS doing the pants pulling down/name calling and that her sons had tried to stop my son. She started going mental at us for "coming round to my house to accuse my boys" and started swearing at DH. I tried to say that A) I knew my son was involved on Saturday and that he'd been disciplined and B) her sons had admitted both events to me. DH tried to ask what she would have done if it had been her 5 year old daughter and told her that if it had just been DS, she would have been quite happy to just get him in trouble (trust me, true!) and wouldn't have dragged two innocent boys into it.

The boys were also in trouble with some of the other parents this afternoon over unrelated activities with other children in the estate, but the mother was taking their side over that as well.

After all that, DH was seriously ready to phone the police but he's calmed down now. I'm upset because I'd just wanted the parents to have a word with their boys about appropriate behaviour and now I'm feeling guilty about going round and causing this big explosion, but honestly, she's FIVE!

How would others have handled it? Gone straight to the parents on the Saturday?

 

[disneyfans95]

Well why call the cops?

Beyond that, I don't discipline neighbor kids. I kick them out of the yard and send them on their way if doing something wrong,. I do follow up with their parents (like you did).

If the parents have a problem with that, oh well. I do understand why they don't want someone else lecturing their kids.

All that said, it does sound like the mom was too confrontantial

 

[lizabu]

I think you handled it the right way. With a Mom like that I wouldn't let my kids play with those boys anymore.

 

[pittsburghmarc]

Sounds like you were very reasonable and rational. Hold your ground and protect your children.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Why are you letting her go off in the woods with boys that are 9?

I would probably not do that anymore for starters and probably not allow my kids to hang with those kids. Sounds like bad news all around.

 

[Mermaid02]

I'm not going to have any friends left at this rate (posted back in December how my next door neighbour isn't speaking to me because I asked her to not block my drive with her bins)!

So Saturday my DS(8) & DD(5) were outside playing with some other neighbourhood kids. At some point it became DS, DD & 2 brothers (9) playing hidey tig (half hide & seek and half tag) in a little wooded bit next to the house. They started mucking about and all three boys started to try to get DD to pull her pants down. NOW, I'm NOT saying anything bad was happening, they were just mucking about and DD was playing along too. However, when she came home and told us, we disciplined DS because it's completely inappropriate play and he knows better. DD also got the lecture about appropriate & inappropriate behaviour. I told the other boys off as well and they apologised and agreed it wouldn't happen again. I left it at that - not overly alarmed but feeling as though we'd handled it.

Fast forward to today when the same boys come by again and start calling DD various homophobic names which I can't post here. At that point I'd had enough and went round to speak to their dad. The boys said he wouldn't come to the door because he was working so I gave them another lecture (got a "but she was annoying us") and asked them to send their dad round when he was done working.

By 5:00 there'd been no sign of the dad so I went back round. The dad was really nice (he had no idea I'd been round earlier!) and I emphasised that I knew Saturday was just mucking about but DD is very little and it's inappropriate, as was the name calling of today. I said I'd disciplined DS for his involvement, could the dad have a word with his boys? I kept it very light - he was fine and said he'd speak to them.

I thought we were all fine, but then this evening along marches the mum, boys in tow, to tell DH & I that she's spoken to both boys separately and they deny everything, saying it was just DS doing the pants pulling down/name calling and that her sons had tried to stop my son. She started going mental at us for "coming round to my house to accuse my boys" and started swearing at DH. I tried to say that A) I knew my son was involved on Saturday and that he'd been disciplined and B) her sons had admitted both events to me. DH tried to ask what she would have done if it had been her 5 year old daughter and told her that if it had just been DS, she would have been quite happy to just get him in trouble (trust me, true!) and wouldn't have dragged two innocent boys into it.

The boys were also in trouble with some of the other parents this afternoon over unrelated activities with other children in the estate, but the mother was taking their side over that as well.

After all that, DH was seriously ready to phone the police but he's calmed down now. I'm upset because I'd just wanted the parents to have a word with their boys about appropriate behaviour and now I'm feeling guilty about going round and causing this big explosion, but honestly, she's FIVE!

How would others have handled it? Gone straight to the parents on the Saturday?

I wouldn't let my kids play with them anymore.... and to make sure there was NO misunderstanding I would make this rule in the company of ALL the children and all the adults.

I think you handled it well- their mother did not.

 

[Bonnie151]

I do understand why they don't want someone else lecturing their kids.

Oh the mother has NO idea I told their children off! They'd have to admit to their mother that they were trying to get DD to take her underpants off/calling her homophobic names if they were to tell her that.

 

[Bonnie151]

Why are you letting her go off in the woods with boys that are 9?

I would probably not do that anymore for starters and probably not allow my kids tohang with those kids. Sounds like bad news all around.

All the kids play there, about 15 of them ranging from 4-10ish- they build huts and play hidey tig. The little ones tend to sick together or with their siblings (as DD was) and it's right next to the houses, only about 20 feet wide and the length of 4 houses (houses on either side of it). DD isn't allowed out on her own, but she gets to go out with DS. And she was in her front garden when the boys came by today.

 

[luvsJack]

I think you handled it just like you should have.

I don't see anything wrong with lecturing someone else's kids. I wish more people WOULD say something when they know a kid is misbehaving. If a kid is going to be allowed to play in a group of kid in the neighborhood, then the parent should expect other parents to say something when they do something wrong.

The other mom is a nut and those boys will be nothing but trouble because of the way she is taking their side and not listening to other adults about what they were doing. I would just tell my kids to steer clear of them.

 

[Poohforyou]

Those kids wouldn't be playing with mine. If I were you I'd also be keeping a closer watch on my son with his sister. It might have been a 1 time thing and he might have been egged on by the other boys but it's better to be safe than sorry.

I tell kids when their behavior is inappropriate and I don't care whether their parents like it or not so I don't think you were out of line with that. I would hope someone would say something to my child if she got out of line.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Why are you letting her go off in the woods with boys that are 9?

I would probably not do that anymore for starters and probably not allow my kids to hang with those kids. Sounds like bad news all around.

Yep.

That would be a done deal.

You can't change them. But you can change the circumstances.

 

[JessicaR]

Yep.

That would be a done deal.

You can't change them. But you can change the circumstances.

Exactly. Just be done with them.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Why are you letting her go off in the woods with boys that are 9?

I would probably not do that anymore for starters and probably not allow my kids to hang with those kids. Sounds like bad news all around.

Yep.

That would be a done deal.

You can't change them. But you can change the circumstances.

Exactly. Just be done with them.

ABSOOOOO LUTELY!

 

[Bonnie151]

Oh we've made various changes since Saturday - e.g. DD is only allowed on the path, not in the little wooded area no matter how many of her friends are playing there. Yesterday was a bit more problematic though as she was playing in her front garden with a stuffed animal when they came back. It'd be nice if she could play in her own yard!

Funnily enough, the other incident with the other kids yesterday was similar. There were two younger (age 6) boys playing in one of their front yards. The brothers came along, dumped their bikes in the yard and started hassling the younger ones. When one of the younger ones told them to stop one of the brothers started saying he was going to phone the police - leading to much fright/tears from the little one. The mum of the other little boy told them off to be told, "but they were annoying us" (exactly what they said to me when I told them off about calling DD names). I wasn't there, though so I only have one side of the story.

We get a bit of this every summer when after being cooped up all winter, the kids start a sort of battle (not physical just a domination competition!) to see who is going to be the head kid this year. Usually it's fairly mild and if anyone goes too far, the parents deal with it. The only other time there was a problem was years ago when an older girl used to run riot and if any of the parents said so much as boo to her, she'd go running home and next thing you knew, the mum would be out in the middle of the street screaming at the other mum for daring to speak to her child. Very classy. So this girl created complete chaos one summer, knowing full well there'd be no consequences (fortunately she moved away before my kids were old enough to play outside!). This is pretty similar - when the mother came round to tear a strip off us last night, one of the boys was busy mouthing off at DH as well and the mum walked away shouting swears at DH in front of the boys so they pretty much know there's not going to be any consequences regardless of what they do. Terrific.

Well why call the cops?

Sorry I forgot to comment on this. Here you can have a community police officer come out and speak to kids if they're behaving inappropriately. I don't think anyone in our estate has ever done so as we tend to sort problems amongst ourselves, but other estates have had someone come out for a group talk for things like breaking bushes in the communal area, persistent damage to cars from footballs/bikes etc. It only works though if the parents are on board and although the dad was really nice to me yesterday, with the mother's reaction I think it would make things 1000x worse.

 

[golfgal]

I would try to video tape the kids behavior if possible-which is easier said than done I know. The mom is never going to believe anyone without seeing it for herself. In the mean time, they would not be allowed to play with my kids-which will lead to them calling your kids names from the sidewalk or neighbor yards, but then you can get it on video tape. It would be nice if the mom would catch a clue that if her boys are in trouble will all the other parents in the neighborhood, just MAYBE it is her kids and not everyone else??

 

[luvsJack]

Its really sad that your dd cannot play with her friends because of this woman and her soon-to-be hoodlums.

Around here we don't have to worry about a 4 or 5 year old girl playing with a 9 year old boy. The older kids look out for the younger kids. I just can't imagine having to worry about something like that.

You and your neighbors need to make a point of bringing it to the dad's attention every time these boys do something. And if you have to call that community officer. If you fall into the "she is not going to do anything anyway" trap, it will never stop. Also, everyone needs to get on the bandwagon when they start something and send them home right then or at least out of your yards.

And when they say the younger kids are messing with them, let them know quick it doesn't matter; they are older and shouldn't retaliate on the younger kids at all. The mom may not do anything, but you all have a right to protect your kids and your kids have a right to play without all these issues.


Golggal has a good idea in filming their actions. Although this mom may still figure out a way to explain it away.

 

[Bonnie151]

To give an idea as to the closeness of the area, this is my view from my PC room:

and you can see the path with the skinny strip of land (which runs along the back gardens of the 2 houses on the left side of the above photo, but not the top one- the woods behind the top house is blocked off and it's a no go zone for my kids at least).

We're pretty much in each others pockets! The gardens are the size of a postage stamp which is why all the kids either run around the cul-de-sac or in the wooded strip. When my kids are out I tend to work upstairs with the window open so I can keep an eye & ear out. The brothers live in the next cul-de-sac down and have been coming up to our bit so their parents don't have a clue as to what they are up to.

Anyway, there's been no sign of them today! Hurrah! And it's been made absolutely clear to my children that they are to stay away from them.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

My first thoughts were to not have your kids play with these kids anymore. However, I would allow them to play together only supervised. Even though the boys did inappropriate things you have been able to discuss with them the downsides of what happened. They might need some different parenting approaches as to whats right and wrong. Sounds like the mom is creating monsters and the dad might be too busy to notice their behaviors. I don't think you should take over parenting them, but just remind them of manners when they need it.

If you turn them away now, that might lead to a lifetime of resentment on their part and then who knows what kinds of trouble those boys might give you.

 

[Uncle Remus]

My first thoughts were to not have your kids play with these kids anymore. However, I would allow them to play together only supervised. Even though the boys did inappropriate things you have been able to discuss with them the downsides of what happened. They might need some different parenting approaches as to whats right and wrong. Sounds like the mom is creating monsters and the dad might be too busy to notice their behaviors. I don't think you should take over parenting them, but just remind them of manners when they need it.

If you turn them away now, that might lead to a lifetime of resentment on their part and then who knows what kinds of trouble those boys might give you.

Sorry, but when boys try to get a li'l girl to pull her panties down, I'm thinkin'
they don't have any manners 'n I couldn't care less about their lifetime of resentment.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

Sorry, but when boys try to get a li'l girl to pull her panties down, I'm thinkin'
they don't have any manners 'n I couldn't care less about their lifetime of resentment.

I'm not trying to say that this mom should disregard what they did. HECK NO! However, I am saying that since these kids seem to respond to her that maybe she can take them under her wing to help keep them out of trouble.

It's not her responsibility to raise them, but seeings that their own mom seems to turn a blind eye to things then this is a way for her to have them respect her and her family so they won't do anything like that again. Personally if it was me I wouldn't encourage the friendship between the girls and the boys. Even though its only 3 years thats a big difference in kids.

There was a family across the street from us that had 6 kids. The parents were divorced and the dad was raising them. He had the older kids raising the younger ones because he was working. The mom relocated to CA. These kids were hellions most of the time unless daddy was around. Of course when he talked to them they would give him different versions of what happened. It made life easier to work with them rather than just avoid them. They learned to respect my parents and would come to them for help rather than just torment me and my siblings.