Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[gwb]

I want to refocus back on the original theme here and about many non on site Disney staying guests at the parks. The boats to the resorts are for onsite guests only, but many off site try to get on them to circumvent paying for parking.
Another point is that a co worker told me that he and many other off site guests will got to DTD grab a bus then go to a park then on the monorail so they won't pay for parking. This loads up the monorail also.
Back in Dec 2000 DW and I went to our 1st MVMCP and MK was filled to capacity. We were staying at WL and we used the boats. On the return trip the boat's captain told everyone they had to show their card for the WL to get a ride back. It was a near riot, the boat captain and us guests were swore at and shouted at. So I can see what will happen after the hour is up and the monorail is shut down.
It's a good thing they now have a lot better security at the gates, but there is still a number who come to the monorail parks saying they have ADRs and use the boats to go to MK.
IMO anything that clears out the non site guests for PM EMH is good news. Many years ago when the PM EMH 1st started the CM's would usher out all non on site guests out, but since then WDW found out that the off site guests will stay and buy stuff in the shops.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's not how I read it. If it were only one of them, I would think it would be worded as "The Resort Monorail" not "The Magic Kingdom Monorail".

I suppose time will tell though.

Yeah, I know that's how the title makes it sound, Brian - and I thought so too until I read the post I quoted (not the original post). Then I realized it specifies, " This means that in both cases, the monorail will not be able to return guests back to their resorts after evening Extra Magic Hours." and, "this will also affect those with late night ADRs or those that like to hang around and be one of last ones out....no more hopping on the monorail to GF/POLY/CR later in the evenings....."

 

[bicker]

Mike Hewell typically does exactly this for his VIP service. I don't think that offering monorail service between a monorail resort and an open park falls into the same category though, do you?

It doesn't need to... one just has to cut into the value offered by the other enough to make the other no longer worthwhile offering as much.

No. Even spending money to move the earth was dumb. Had the crash not happened, I'm guessing it would have pressed forward. "We got lucky" is not the same as "we eventually made the right decision."

And if the crash had not happened, and they finished the project, and it happened to have been a big success, then you'd have been eating your words, although you perhaps wouldn't have written them. The point is that hindsight is always 20/20. The implication that decisions made by the folks who run Disney are "dumb" is unsupportable. Mistakes are made by the very best people; that doesn't make them "dumb".

I never offered it as such.

Of course - you wouldn't. However, it is the context of most of my comments in this thread, that led us to this portion of the discussion.

Instead, I suggested that it can tip the balance for something that is otherwise close on the sharp-pencil basis.

And that's always been the case. And indeed, the most rational approach is to neither tip the balance over "that" way, nor tip the balance over the other way too far. You want to ride as close to the line as possible while being sure to stay on the good side of the line.

 

[SaraJayne]

I doubt it will have much impact on park attendance.

On the other hand, it will be interesting to see how much farther Disney can push the "anti-Deluxing" of the Deluxe resorts and still fill them at the rates they currently command. Those who have stayed in a truly first-class hotel know that Disney's Deluxes do not compare. And, the "attractions corridor" has several properties that fit that definition of "first class" (the Ritz, the JW Marriott, and maybe one or two more), with a new one recently opened (the Waldorf) and another that, presumably, will be in development shortly (the Four Seasons).

Now, think about the mix of guests that likely make up the Deluxe roster: hard core Disneyana fans, and families of means who are taking their young kids for one of what will be at most a handful of the total trips to WDW they will ever take. The first category can be pushed pretty far; when the rubber meets the road, and they really have to decide where they are going to stay for their next trip, they are going to be staying on property somewhere, and probably still in one of those Deluxe resorts.

But, the second group---my sense is that second group is very much in play. Anecdotally, it seems to me that that second group looks at Disney's offerings, and increasingly finds them lacking. Things like cutting monorail service do not help Disney retain the second group of folks. For that group, location and convenience is the only saving grace for these resorts, because it certainly is not the quality of the rooms or the level of service, both of which compare to a good business class hotel but fall far short of the typical Ritz/Four Seasons/etc, despite charging comparable (or higher) rates.


"Group Two" guests are not taking ME. I guarantee it.

I'm in the second group, and I'm increasingly finding Disney lacking. Which is why instead of a trip in six -eight months (which has been normal for us the last 5 years or so), our next trip is in a couple years.

 

[SaraJayne]

Incremental cutbacks are a reality just about everywhere in life. This is part of the same trend that has now made it difficult to buy an actual 1/2 gallon of ice cream. Most consumers/guests don't notice or bother internalizing the changes, yet the changes are critical for maintaining the bottom line of the corporation.

Like most folks, I am a tad wistful to see WDW doing this sort of thing. I suppose it is necessary for keeping profits up. Hopefully WDW will not reach a point where they have cut back so much that they drive guests away.

For many, it's already reached that point.

 

[LaurenT]

Quote without comment. This is official from an internal source:

"From time to time, we make adjustments to our operations to accommodate for planned transportation maintenance. With that in mind, operating hours for the Epcot Monorail system will be modified to operate one hour after regular park close beginning July 11, 2011 and the Magic Kingdom Monorail system will also operate one hour after regular park close beginning August 1, 2011. At that time, watercraft (where applicable) and additional buses will be available to transport guests to their destination.
Return service from evening Extra Magic Hours in the parks will be supported by watercraft (where applicable) and bus transportation. "

Planned transportation maintenance...sounds like it may be temporary. Perhaps it's a long term project and they just don't want to offer up and end time, so they're just putting it out there are a permanent change?

 

[momatater]

For many, it's already reached that point.

Agreed! This is our last trip for a good while. I was thinking about cancelling, but with a 40% off pin and me recovering from another surgery, I figured we'd go and enjoy. I truely hate the idea, and I'm sure we'll go back for a few single days during the year, but won't be staying onsite.

 

[kaligal]

Disney is hell-bent on cutting back until they see how much they can cut before people just give up on them entirely. Such a waste. Pisses me off.

 

[LaurenT]

Exact wording from a internal memo posted.

Is this change permanent?

Yes, although we regularly evaluate and adjust our operations based on a variety of operational considerations.

Hmmm...now that makes it sound like they want it to be permanent...as long as it works out ok. If all heck breaks loose and there is general mayhem, with huge crowds at the deluxe ferries and disgruntled guests everywhere...they might decide that they need to readjust their operations...

 

[asta]

Interestingly, taking a boat from MK to the GF saves time; on the monorail it would be the fourth stop, isn't it the first stop on the boat route?

I have never directly compared the time but, yes, the GF is the first stop. The problem is that the boats run slowly, board even more slowly and do not run as frequently as the monorail. My rule is that if there is boat anywhere near the dock and the line is short enough that I can get on the next boat, then I will take the boat. In all of my trips staying at the GF this has only happened twice. Once I board the monorail I really don't know how long it would take for the next boat to arrive.

We did compare the Epcot monorail to using our car and it was unbelievably slow. Two of us took the monorail, the others waited for a tram to reach our car. They drove it to the GF, self-parked, walked to the room and showered before we were able to get there using the monorail service.

 

[Disney Spaz]

The impact on eating and shopping at the various monorail resorts should be interesting. Whenever we have stayed at a monorail resort we have booked dining at other monorail resorts late to enojoy maximum time in the park while still having a quick ride back ot our home resort. Plus we tend to shop more at the stores in those resorts/ I think in the end this will effect the value of those resorts. IMHO Disney should maintain the resort line after hours but require resort ID like they do for admission to the rides.

I bet once EMH started requireing resort id's for rides there were more people who made the switch to stay on-site to make sure they could use this servcie. I feel the same way about the buses. THe transportation is supposed to be a benifit for resort guests only. Require people getting on to show they should be getting on the buses, boats etc..

gwb's post is the perfect example of how off-site resort guests use the perks that are supposedly only for on-site guests. Crack down on the abuse and maybe when that same family has to pick a resort on the next trip the benifits are of real value because they can't be abused by those not paying for them.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I think I'm going to wait until I hear an official announcement on this.

It doesn't really make any sense.

 

[SaraJayne]

The impact on eating and shopping at the various monorail resorts should be interesting. Whenever we have stayed at a monorail resort we have booked dining at other monorail resorts late to enojoy maximum time in the park while still having a quick ride back ot our home resort. Plus we tend to shop more at the stores in those resorts/ I think in the end this will effect the value of those resorts. IMHO Disney should maintain the resort line after hours but require resort ID like they do for admission to the rides.

I bet once EMH started requireing resort id's for rides there were more people who made the switch to stay on-site to make sure they could use this servcie. I feel the same way about the buses. THe transportation is supposed to be a benifit for resort guests only. Require people getting on to show they should be getting on the buses, boats etc..

gwb's post is the perfect example of how off-site resort guests use the perks that are supposedly only for on-site guests. Crack down on the abuse and maybe when that same family has to pick a resort on the next trip the benifits are of real value because they can't be abused by those not paying for them.

No, it isn't. It's for every single guest that paid to get into WDW, not just for the ones that are staying on-property.

That's been well documented for many years.

 

[asta]

I want to refocus back on the original theme here and about many non on site Disney staying guests at the parks. The boats to the resorts are for onsite guests only, but many off site try to get on them to circumvent paying for parking.
Another point is that a co worker told me that he and many other off site guests will got to DTD grab a bus then go to a park then on the monorail so they won't pay for parking. This loads up the monorail also.
Back in Dec 2000 DW and I went to our 1st MVMCP and MK was filled to capacity. We were staying at WL and we used the boats. On the return trip the boat's captain told everyone they had to show their card for the WL to get a ride back. It was a near riot, the boat captain and us guests were swore at and shouted at. So I can see what will happen after the hour is up and the monorail is shut down.
It's a good thing they now have a lot better security at the gates, but there is still a number who come to the monorail parks saying they have ADRs and use the boats to go to MK.
IMO anything that clears out the non site guests for PM EMH is good news. Many years ago when the PM EMH 1st started the CM's would usher out all non on site guests out, but since then WDW found out that the off site guests will stay and buy stuff in the shops.

I agree with needing to check resort ID's before letting people on these ferries back to the MK resorts. On one of my two ferry rides, there were people openly talking about getting off at the Polynesian and walking to the TTC. It made more sense to them instead of waiting in a long line for the big ferry.

I have often wished for the days when non site guests could not stay for EMH. The MK was truly a more pleasant experience with less people in the parks. Unfortunately, I don't see discontinuing monorail service as helping with this.

 

[mesaboy2]

No, it isn't. It's for every single guest that paid to get into WDW, not just for the ones that are staying on-property.

That's been well documented for many years.

Agree. "Resort guest" is defined by Disney to be anybody at the Walt Disney Resort. Some here take the term more literally to mean someone staying at a Disney O&O resort, while others don't. Hilarity ensues.

 

[asta]

No, it isn't. It's for every single guest that paid to get into WDW, not just for the ones that are staying on-property.

That's been well documented for many years.

I don't know about all forms of WDW transportation but the resort monorail used to be for resort guests only. There was a CM at the TTC ramp directing off site guests to the other monorail. The monorail service for resort guests has not been as pleasant once WDW stopped doing this.

 

[NYDisneyKid]

yes. It will be a complete cf the first 2 weeks or so.

cf?

 

[SaraJayne]

I don't know about all forms of WDW transportation but the resort monorail used to be for resort guests only. There was a CM at the TTC ramp directing off site guests to the other monorail. The monorail service for resort guests has not been as pleasant once WDW stopped doing this.

"Not been as pleasant"? You mean having to mingle with the un-washed masses of day guests?

 

[mesaboy2]

cf?

I know what it is, but can't explain without earning points.

 

[SaraJayne]

cf?

Think about it. You'll figure it out.