Monorail Operating Costs and Reliability

[mcd2745]

I started skimming some of the first couple pages, but it seemed to be devolving rather quickly, sooo I've skipped ahead to the end here. Apologies if my thoughts have already been discussed.

As discussed in the early going, the monorail costs and reliability are unknown those outside of Disney's inner-workings. But with the advancement of technology it's likely both the monorail and the buses as they currently exist will be rendered obsolete. Progress with driverless cars and pod systems can provide the flexibility of bus systems vs a fixed track with the more constant speed and efficiency intended by the monorail -- or Walt's intent of the People Mover for E.P.C.O.T. as he envisioned it.

Driverless technology is poised to reshape public transportation over the next decade, and likely even faster within smaller communities like WDW where they have their own transportation infrastructure and less political hurdles. For the technology in question it may not be much more than designating a lane or two, and possibly altering pickup and dropoff points. And the benefit is quicker, more efficient transportation -- something that can fuel the bottom line as less time sitting on a mode of transportation is more time spent in a resort or park with sales opportunities.

Companies are already running intracity and interstate driverless tests, reducing the incentive for investing additional money into the monorail at this time. For the monorail itself, they may be eyeing advances in proposed pod systems for a futuristic replacement that utilize the existing track but perhaps with more efficiency.

There's been several mentions of these pod systems. While there are some obvious benefits to such a system, they are very intriguing, and IMO would be a suitable replacement for the monorail from a "cool factor" standpoint, I would really question whether a system like that can have the capacity required for a place like WDW. I would doubt a system like that could handle the demand needed for closing time at MK on a normal night - let alone the peak periods - and would still have to be supplemented by buses.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I would doubt a system like that could handle the demand needed for closing time at MK on a normal night - let alone the peak periods - and would still have to be supplemented by buses.

I agree with you, and see the advancements and flexibility in ground transportation to be the big driver (literally) moving people around the resort.

I mention the pod system only as a possible reason for not upgrading the current monorail trains in spite of the cool factor and premium they provide for resorts along the existing route. Where Disney may seek to utilize the track in the future for those purposes, a pod system might provide a more efficient mechanism than the current or newer monorail trains.

 

[Alfalfa]

Years ago I remember WDW being a case study among transit authorities and civil engineering circles who admired their ability to essentially evacuate a medium sized city in a matter of hours every single night.

Part of the reason for that success was the diversity of options available and how they are orchestrated in very efficient fashion.

So while I don't think we'll see the monorail dismantled for both strategic and iconic reasons, I'm betting that when driver-less technology matures just a bit more WDW could be one of the first wide-spread applications of buses without drivers. That's the largest cost they'll be able to eliminate among all of the current transit methods.

 

[truck1]

Disney is fueled by money - not "magic"...and they will take advantage of you if they let them. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. But the consumer has to wise up...

Specifically at wdw... Which has
Seen MY OPINION - a shift away from a quality or value approach and is heading towards a long term damaging tact. I'm worried they might kill the place and all the dusters will lament after they had a chance to affect it. They have done nothing to PROVE me wrong in the Iger era.

I agree 100%. Matter of Fact your buddy Bob Iger stated that specifically on the Fantasys Maiden. Joe Lansisero had done a talk on the building of the ships. At the end he made the mistake of asking for questions. Question number 2 was any more new ships. Bob had slipped into the room and picked up the question from Joe who was tap dancing around the subject. His words were basically (and this was at the time) that Disney ha spent 1.2 billion per ship, spent a few billion on Pixar and expansions all over the world. It was time they switched to making back the money for he stock holders.

Now, from walking around the WDW parks, and looking at the conditions of things, and the attitudes of the CMs, and a few other odds and ends, Disney in general is on the down hill slide.

Truthfully, from experience at WDW, the motivating factor is becoming money. Walts ideas the way a park runs, is no longer. There are no true Disneys on the boards anymore to keep things in check.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree 100%. Matter of Fact your buddy Bob Iger stated that specifically on the Fantasys Maiden. Joe Lansisero had done a talk on the building of the ships. At the end he made the mistake of asking for questions. Question number 2 was any more new ships. Bob had slipped into the room and picked up the question from Joe who was tap dancing around the subject. His words were basically (and this was at the time) that Disney ha spent 1.2 billion per ship, spent a few billion on Pixar and expansions all over the world. It was time they switched to making back the money for he stock holders.

Now, from walking around the WDW parks, and looking at the conditions of things, and the attitudes of the CMs, and a few other odds and ends, Disney in general is on the down hill slide.

Truthfully, from experience at WDW, the motivating factor is becoming money. Walts ideas the way a park runs, is no longer. There are no true Disneys on the boards anymore to keep things in check.

To this point...

After tons of spare time research...and work experience for and then post Disney...

Experience...not FACT...

I think the two most underated people in Disney company history had the same name:

Roy o Disney and roy e Disney...

They were both foils on different ends of the spectrum that were 100% necessary.

There's are no foils now...and the current "visionaries" don't even take the hangers out of the jackets before they put them on in the morning.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There's been several mentions of these pod systems. While there are some obvious benefits to such a system, they are very intriguing, and IMO would be a suitable replacement for the monorail from a "cool factor" standpoint, I would really question whether a system like that can have the capacity required for a place like WDW. I would doubt a system like that could handle the demand needed for closing time at MK on a normal night - let alone the peak periods - and would still have to be supplemented by buses.

Here here...

Not only that...it would probably require the customer to know where they are going and how to navigate the system.

That is giving wdw customers FAR too much credit...as they can get lost in the bathrooms...

So of the system has to be "piloted"...then it's cost ineffective.

Light rail is the way to go...and they should have already built it by now. Price will only go up.

 

[DDLand]

Here here...

Not only that...it would probably require the customer to know where they are going and how to navigate the system.

That is giving wdw customers FAR too much credit...as they can get lost in the bathrooms...

So of the system has to be "piloted"...then it's cost ineffective.

Light rail is the way to go...and they should have already built it by now. Price will only go up.

I don't think this would be a problem. Using My Magic it would already know which theme park you had reservations at and which Resort you're staying at. It could automatically bring up options like arrive at your reserved Fast Passes and return to your room. It wouldn't be hard to figure out. Also you could do easy grouping like Water Parks, Theme Parks, and Disney Springs. I think they could handle it easier then the current bus system because there'd be descriptions of each destination.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Not only that...it would probably require the customer to know where they are going and how to navigate the system.

With the direction in driverless technology, it seems likely those systems would likewise be driverless. Guests would only need to know where they intend to go same as today.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't think this would be a problem. Using My Magic it would already know which theme park you had reservations at and which Resort you're staying at. It could automatically bring up options like arrive at your reserved Fast Passes and return to your room. It wouldn't be hard to figure out. Also you could do easy grouping like Water Parks, Theme Parks, and Disney Springs. I think they could handle it easier then the current bus system because there'd be descriptions of each destination.

Listen...I know they are all about the "preplanning"...

But I realistically can't see them using a bracelet to speed people away to preselected location.

Not yet...anyone.

With the language barriers (easily solved...you would think) and the "grandma effect"?

We're a ways off.

That...and it doesn't lead directly to overcharged special ticket profits or cheap Chinese sales...

Deal breaker.

 

[clsteve]

Years ago I remember WDW being a case study among transit authorities and civil engineering circles who admired their ability to essentially evacuate a medium sized city in a matter of hours every single night.

Part of the reason for that success was the diversity of options available and how they are orchestrated in very efficient fashion.

So while I don't think we'll see the monorail dismantled for both strategic and iconic reasons, I'm betting that when driver-less technology matures just a bit more WDW could be one of the first wide-spread applications of buses without drivers. That's the largest cost they'll be able to eliminate among all of the current transit methods.

But, then who's going to give me the inside scoop on when's the best time to tour inside the Castle if there's no bus driver....?

This whole Board will crash without all of those rumors and scoops, don't you think...?

 

[Castle2Castle]

With the language barriers (easily solved...you would think) and the "grandma effect"?

We're a ways off.

That...and it doesn't lead directly to overcharged special ticket profits or cheap Chinese sales...

As it applies to a monorail replacement using existing infrastructure, language barriers can be overcome with destination logos within pods or when/where boarding. People figure it out today, so another system with driverless pods seems like it could easily overcome the barrier.

As to special tickets, eh, the monorail doesn't do that today. Where magic bands could factor in is in making a new system exclusive to resort and dining guests (for that track) to better justify the premiums there.

All speculative of course. But the technology is coming along for the possibilities and, more importantly in the present, to discourage new investment in the existing monorail technology.

 

[DDLand]

Listen...I know they are all about the "preplanning"...

But I realistically can't see them using a bracelet to speed people away to preselected location.

Not yet...anyone.

With the language barriers (easily solved...you would think) and the "grandma effect"?

We're a ways off.

That...and it doesn't lead directly to overcharged special ticket profits or cheap Chinese sales...

Deal breaker.

I don't think it would automatic, but a predictive system would be in Disney's best interest. Actually, using the language selected as your preferred method of communication on My Magic, it could automatically bring up the correct language on the panel. You're Brazillian, with a tap of your wrist the pod is automatically speaking Portuguese. This level of personalization would make transportation so much easier for so many people. Also Disney could even suggest Parks based on crowds. DAK is a little crowded, it can automatically suggest people take a trip to Epcot. That's powerful.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't think it would automatic, but a predictive system would be in Disney's best interest. Actually, using the language selected as your preferred method of communication on My Magic, it could automatically bring up the correct language on the panel. You're Brazillian, with a tap of your wrist the pod is automatically speaking Portuguese. This level of personalization would make transportation so much easier for so many people. Also Disney could even suggest Parks based on crowds. DAK is a little crowded, it can automatically suggest people take a trip to Epcot. That's powerful.

I agree it's an intriguing idea...I think they just lack the will to pay for such a system. It seems we are in a "post investment" period at wdw.

That is a paradox on one hand...but you could also argue the point pretty convincingly.

Even the "additions" over the last 10 years in the parks bare that out - as it doesn't seem to matter what they build - or if there's anything ingenious about it - as long as is has an IP/character slapped on it that you can sell pieces of on iTunes.

 

[DDLand]

I agree it's an intriguing idea...I think they just lack the will to pay for such a system. It seems we are in a "post investment" period at wdw.

That is a paradox on one hand...but you could also argue the point pretty convincingly.

Even the "additions" over the last 10 years in the parks bare that out - as it doesn't seem to matter what they build - or if there's anything ingenious about it - as long as is has an IP/character slapped on it that you can sell pieces of on iTunes.

Yeah, I can see where there'd be road bumps (no pun intended). The Heathrow pod I think they should use are more along the lines of a car, flexibility is the key. I am having difficulty seeing Disney swallowing the upkeep of a massive system of roads next to existing infrastructure. I'm wondering which one would be cheaper, rails or roads? Personnel Transport does seem to have some great potential with Next Gen. In all honesty I think Disneyland would be the most practical application if any more satellite properties are developed. You get to the parking garage and then choose between the Resort Plaza or the secondary plaza. I think Disney World may just be best served using buses. Anything else would be too expensive looking at the practicality of it. There are just way too many different destinations to create a method of effective transit. There's just not enough density. If someone feels really feels passionately hateful towards bus travel, they can stay at a Monorail Resort. The rest of us can be content with the existing methods.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

There's been several mentions of these pod systems. While there are some obvious benefits to such a system, they are very intriguing, and IMO would be a suitable replacement for the monorail from a "cool factor" standpoint, I would really question whether a system like that can have the capacity required for a place like WDW. I would doubt a system like that could handle the demand needed for closing time at MK on a normal night - let alone the peak periods - and would still have to be supplemented by buses.

I am a big pod fan and I agree with you 100%. The pod would not be suitable for every type of crowd and transport needed in WDW. However it would work well at a station form a outside Monorail system from MCO , between resorts, to DTD and etc...etc.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I agree it's an intriguing idea...I think they just lack the will to pay for such a system. It seems we are in a "post investment" period at wdw.

That is a paradox on one hand...but you could also argue the point pretty convincingly.

Even the "additions" over the last 10 years in the parks bare that out - as it doesn't seem to matter what they build - or if there's anything ingenious about it - as long as is has an IP/character slapped on it that you can sell pieces of on iTunes.

I agree 100%. The Roys were just what Disney needed at the times and Dam I wish we had them back! Walt was always the first one to admit he could never have don the
magic he did without his Brother.


AKK

 

[BlackMagicWoman]

I don't think this would be a problem. Using My Magic it would already know which theme park you had reservations at and which Resort you're staying at. It could automatically bring up options like arrive at your reserved Fast Passes and return to your room. It wouldn't be hard to figure out. Also you could do easy grouping like Water Parks, Theme Parks, and Disney Springs. I think they could handle it easier then the current bus system because there'd be descriptions of each destination.

Plus you could program it to go where you wanted to go 180 days in advance. lol

 

[DDLand]

Plus you could program it to go where you wanted to go 180 days in advance. lol

I think it's only 60 days.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Plus you could program it to go where you wanted to go 180 days in advance. lol

I know...as if a shuttle taking you to where you are "reserved" isn't crazy as hell and too Orwellian..

That way they can not only plan out their staff 90 days In advancd...to make sure each employee has only 29 hours, 59 minutes per week...but then they can go ahead and chain them directly to their posts...

To avoid "Inefficiency" caused by the "outdated" free choice world of central Florida traffic

 

[DDLand]

I know...as if a shuttle taking you to where you are "reserved" isn't crazy as hell and too Orwellian..

That way they can not only plan out their staff 90 days In advancd...to make sure each employee has only 29 hours, 59 minutes per week...but then they can go ahead and chain them directly to their posts...

To avoid "Inefficiency" caused by the "outdated" free choice world of central Florida traffic

I don't think they could ever have a system that justs whisks you away without further verification. I agree that's taking it too far. However reservations for vehicle availability could work. My Magic actually opens interesting doors...