Monorail Operating Costs and Reliability

[Tonka's Skipper]

Just another example of how the Monorails are part of the show to may many guests and is indeed a Disney Icon!

AKK

 

[Andrew015]

Only by dealing in facts do we progress. Rumors are fun and entertaining, but do nothing to advance civilization.

Hate to say it, but if that's your take, you're hanging around the wrong DISBoards sub-forum...

 

[DDLand]

Nah.

You're making it sound way harder than it is. And way overblowing the costs. Just use Marriott as an example. They do this all of the time and have teams who do this all of the time as their career - going in and merging hotel chains into their portfolio worldwide. Look it up. Not little chains. Big ones with huge hotels. You can easily check that one

Do you really think that they would have less clout with vendors and contractors? Hardly. they have over 700,000 rooms in their portfolio. Disney is a minor player compared to them. Trust me, what you point out as a concern would be about a 15 minute discussion, with Marriott saying with a chuckle "we got it..."

You're getting into part of my footprint, now. M&A and combining large companies and their infrastructure. The employee side is often the easiest. It's amazing what sweetening the pot with a bonus at the end of a year, or additional 401K contrib to move over given after a year as examples. So many ways to make it desirable.

You'd be shocked how many actually relish the move. In this case, they'd be going to a company who's sole business is hotels and not just the thing we have to do. Better chance for upward mobility, better chance for re-assignment worldwide, etc.

I've seen it.

Disney would be shedding not hiring. Marriott would be absorbing - and absorbing into a larger corp with better efficiency since that's all they do and all they've done for a hundred years or so.

This would be Standard Operating Procedure for a company such as them. They bite off big chunks like this yearly, without a hitch.....

Many of the hotel chains acquired have supply chains, contracts, and support structures that can be bought and the slowly rolled into operations. Disney Hotels however would be starting from scratch in most respects. Unless Disney and Marriott could reach a sustained partnership I'm thinking of Thousands of new employees hired. This would be an on going cost. Also this wouldn't just be a truth for Marriott, it'd also be a fact for Disney Parks. That's specifically what I was talking about losing clout. The Parks Margins would be hit as they were forced to renegotiate contracts from Merch, to food. Even taking on additional staff in certain areas. Though Marriott likely doesn't have the same clout all on in one extremely centralized area. Disney's unique in that respect.

Things like My Magic, The College Program, and the critical mass of Walt Disney World that help keep costs down would go to the wind. There would be certain benefits from merging into the nearly 1 million rooms of Marriott offsetting the change, undoubtedly. However losing on those fronts would be enourmous. Also having the additions of these hotels all located so close together also serves to complicate things, that would put the Marriott Orlando Area Supply chain to the limits.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

Hate to say it, but if that's your take, you're hanging around the wrong DISBoards sub-forum...

Read my entire post. Don't take what I said out of context. In my previous post, which I will repeat here for the reading comprehension impaired, I said that I enjoy reading the Disney rumors. What I don't enjoy is people stating rumors as facts because they have come to believe in the rumors. That's all.

 

[Andrew015]

Many of the hotel chains acquired have supply chains, contracts, and support structures that can be bought and the slowly rolled into operations. Disney Hotels however would be starting from scratch in most respects. Unless Disney and Marriott could reach a sustained partnership I'm thinking of Thousands of new employees hired. This would be an on going cost. Also this wouldn't just be a truth for Marriott, it'd also be a fact for Disney Parks. That's specifically what I was talking about losing clout. The Parks Margins would be hit as they were forced to renegotiate contracts from Merch, to food. Even taking on additional staff in certain areas. Though Marriott likely doesn't have the same clout all on in one extremely centralized area. Disney's unique in that respect.

I don't understand the logic that either party would be "losing any synergies" by coming together as one? Is that not the very definition of the word "synergy"? Help me understand the synergies that would be lost by either party.

 

[Andrew015]

Read my entire post. Don't take what I said out of context. In my previous post, which I will repeat here for the reading comprehension impaired, I said that I enjoy reading the Disney rumors. What I don't enjoy is people stating rumors as facts because they have come to believe in the rumors. That's all.

This isn't the website of a major news network, on which, a certain amount of journalistic integrity is expected to be maintained. This is a discussion forum where people with knowledge, feelings and opinions come together to share a common interest - All things Disney. Despite not being a 100% factual, "take it to the grave" resource, I challenge you to find a better resource anywhere on the planet for all things Disney. Have a question about parks and resorts? This is the place to be. Wanna talk about vintage collectibles from the 1970's? We have a sub-forum for that, too and I'd bet money that you'll find the answer that you're looking for. I even recall a lengthy thread with detailed pictures depicting bathrooms from all across Disney property. We have over 3M active discussion threads currently going on with almost 500,000 members, all of whom are incredibly passionate about Disney. We're not journalists, professors or publishers. We're simply crazy about Disney, and collectively as a forum, know more about the place than anywhere else in the vast World Wide Web. That's why you're here. That's why I'm here. That's why we are all here.

You're asking for a factual, documented response on a discussion forum entitled "Rumors and News"... to a classified question that no one outside of a very close, secured inner circle has the real answer to. And you're expecting a response with cited sources that have been double and triple verified... on a discussion forum entitled "Rumors"?

To an extent - I get the gist of your point, as I'm an overly-analytical type that likes to see things to believe them. I'd really love to know how black holes are formed billions of light year's away. There are textbooks written about their existence and professors all over the country are teaching their students how they're formed on a daily basis. Guess what - those text books are based in theory that has a very high probability of being correct. So is our collective answer as to why the Monorail has been automated.

Last point - You should only expect the quality of the answer to match the quality of the question being asked. If you knew that no one would have the "real" answer, then why ask the question in the first place and raise such a fuss when you don't "hear the answer that you want to hear"? I can't help but feel as if we have been baited into a semantics trap...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My advice: concentrate on the turkey... Not the gravy (gobble gobble)

There is one underlying theme that I usually convey (sometimes...believe it or not...I'm just sharing the truth):

Disney is fueled by money - not "magic"...and they will take advantage of you if they let them. There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. But the consumer has to wise up...

Specifically at wdw... Which has
Seen MY OPINION - a shift away from a quality or value approach and is heading towards a long term damaging tact. I'm worried they might kill the place and all the dusters will lament after they had a chance to affect it. They have done nothing to PROVE me wrong in the Iger era.

what am I saying? Don't stop going (necessarily)...vote with your wallet.
Never buy the "villians soire" at a redonkulous price inside a ridiculously priced nighttime.

Don't buy the laughable "ultimate thrill seekers tour"

If MGM is half closed - SKIP IT.

Do you know what a 1-1.5 mil drop in attendance would do?

They'd build the Death Star on a faster schedule than return of the Jedi

Ok...speech over

 

[clsteve]

Many of the hotel chains acquired have supply chains, contracts, and support structures that can be bought and the slowly rolled into operations. Disney Hotels however would be starting from scratch in most respects. Unless Disney and Marriott could reach a sustained partnership I'm thinking of Thousands of new employees hired. This would be an on going cost. Also this wouldn't just be a truth for Marriott, it'd also be a fact for Disney Parks. That's specifically what I was talking about losing clout. The Parks Margins would be hit as they were forced to renegotiate contracts from Merch, to food. Even taking on additional staff in certain areas. Though Marriott likely doesn't have the same clout all on in one extremely centralized area. Disney's unique in that respect.

Things like My Magic, The College Program, and the critical mass of Walt Disney World that help keep costs down would go to the wind. There would be certain benefits from merging into the nearly 1 million rooms of Marriott offsetting the change, undoubtedly. However losing on those fronts would be enourmous. Also having the additions of these hotels all located so close together also serves to complicate things, that would put the Marriott Orlando Area Supply chain to the limits.

DDL, with all due respect, you're out of your element on this one. Quit while you're ahead. The things you are bringing up are non-issues.

Disney would still be the largest private employer in central Fla and still one of, if not still the largest single site employer in the US.

Absolutely zero clout in negotiations with anybody would be lost. Red herring.

Do you think those landscape and food supply Exec's are going to give up their Disney Perks and cocktail party invites, or business meetings at the Magnolia after free golf? Nope. They're not going to even think about hardballing the Mouse after this.

You make it sound like WDW is in the middle of the Sahara. Marriott has a huge, established presence in all of Fla. C'mon.

Transactions like these are common and the vendor relationships already well established. Sysco is still Sysco, American Hotel is still American Hotel. The relationships are well established for decades on both sides. To the point the C-levels of these supply orgs give there personal home phone and cell numbers to whomever is the lead at Marriott and drop everything when they call.

The day-to-day delivery trucks would show up as normal the next day without any disruption or even notice by anyone.

As far as thousands of additional employees. You're way off base there. Disney would shed thousands. Marriott would take on less than the current due to efficiency. It's just the way it works with companies who have been doing these and larger transactions into their core business for decades.

The College Program? Marriott has a well established worldwide program. Has for Decades. So they rent 10-15% of lodging space back from Disney. Big deal. My son could do that transaction.

And I guarantee you the integration points are already in NextGen for exactly this type of necessity and others.

Heck, I've never had one issue with my Loew's issued room key getting me in the Universal Parks, or using it to buy in-Park meals, Citywalk meals, water from the street vendors, or merch in the shops.

Disney doesn't have an exclusive on MB's. Even Great Wolf has been using the same tech for decades

Don't make it out as rocket science.

Like we used to say with these types of transactions: "the only ones who make it out as difficult or impossible are the ones who don't want it to happen"

Besides, you aren't concentrating on the positives for us the guests. I would love to have a $3K Disney Hotel bill translate into 30K Marriott or Starwood Points - free room or discount on a luxury one anywhere in the world.

Or check in to find St Regis or Fairmont quality amenities, linens and pillows at the Boardwalk or GF.

And the biggest - Disney focused exclusively on the Parks - in theory, at least

 

[LeeAndRobin]

Last point - You should only expect the quality of the answer to match the quality of the question being asked. If you knew that no one would have the "real" answer, then why ask the question in the first place and raise such a fuss when you don't "hear the answer that you want to hear"? I can't help but feel as if we have been baited into a semantics trap...

I'll try this one more time, since you clearly haven't gotten it yet. My problem IS NOT with the rumors themselves. My problem is with people who state their rumors as FACTS. I enjoy the rumors, as I think all of us do here.

My point of starting this thread is general was that people are stating the monorail will likely go away, using various "facts" according to them, which are in fact just rumors. I asked if anyone had any real data. Apparently, the answer is no. That is fine. But don't state your gut feeling and call it a fact. That was and is all I am saying. If you don't understand where I am coming from by now, or what my point is, I can't help you.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Apropos of nothing at all, but last night I saw a new Disney commercial. A cast member is asking the members of a family what they want to do. The son says "I want to ride the monorail!". Later in the commercial, the monorail is prominently featured. It would not seem that Disney would advertise the monorail on a national commercial if they were planning to remove it soon....

Nobody ever said "soon"...

Don't lecture on reading comprehension and insert supposition...

Here's my OPINION:

The will continue to outfit/replace the rooms
Around the lagoon with DVC. I see that playing out as such:

Tower construction at poly - phase 2
Conversion of lodges at grand Floridian - phase 2
Possibly construction of second tower/building at contemporary - phase 2

After that...the need for the monorail (not transportation...of course they need that)...can be reduced. They don't have to have the monorail to convince DVC to show up.

Heres how you'll know...
If they do not replace the trains in 5-10 years...at most... Then they are going to take it down. Machines cannot last indefinitely.

Pretty simple, huh?

As far as the commercial featuring the monorail goes... There's another angle there...

Can you guess about what it is? Hint: don't doubt their ability to get you to admit what you didnt know you were thinking.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If Marriott were to take over operations at Disney hotels and pay a handsome commission to do so...both companies would be celebrated with bread and circuses on wall street.

They have a 85% round the year occupancy rate at rack prices well above the market value...it's hard to quantify just how coveted that is in the travel and leisure business.

And Disney would shed 50% of their labor obligations while keeping virtually all of the profit. (The profit is in the giftshops...that is verifyable in the annual reports). The "revenue" would fall...but the
Profit would stay the same...
Think Wall Street would like that?

It's my opinion...but I authorize you to take it as fact.

 

[Andrew015]

I'll try this one more time, since you clearly haven't gotten it yet. My problem IS NOT with the rumors themselves. My problem is with people who state their rumors as FACTS. I enjoy the rumors, as I think all of us do here.

As outlined above in my response, I do get "it". What I don't get is why you'd ask a question expecting a documented, factual response.... on a discussion forum entitled "rumors".... to a question that you knew full well.... can't possibly be answered in the manner in which you are requesting.

My point of starting this thread is general was that people are stating the monorail will likely go away, using various "facts" according to them, which are in fact just rumors. I asked if anyone had any real data. Apparently, the answer is no. That is fine. But don't state your gut feeling and call it a fact. That was and is all I am saying. If you don't understand where I am coming from by now, or what my point is, I can't help you.

I guess I'll call up my high school / college to request that all astronomy classes are taken offline, because I was told on a discussion forum entitled "News And Rumors" that anything based in theory with a high likelihood of being true is nothing more than pure mularky...

 

[DDLand]

DDL, with all due respect, you're out of your element on this one. Quit while you're ahead. The things you are bringing up are non-issues.

Disney would still be the largest private employer in central Fla and still one of, if not still the largest single site employer in the US.

Absolutely zero clout in negotiations with anybody would be lost. Red herring.

Do you think those landscape and food supply Exec's are going to give up their Disney Perks and cocktail party invites, or business meetings at the Magnolia after free golf? Nope. They're not going to even think about hardballing the Mouse after this.

You make it sound like WDW is in the middle of the Sahara. Marriott has a huge, established presence in all of Fla. C'mon.

Transactions like these are common and the vendor relationships already well established. Sysco is still Sysco, American Hotel is still American Hotel. The relationships are well established for decades on both sides. To the point the C-levels of these supply orgs give there personal home phone and cell numbers to whomever is the lead at Marriott and drop everything when they call.

The day-to-day delivery trucks would show up as normal the next day without any disruption or even notice by anyone.

As far as thousands of additional employees. You're way off base there. Disney would shed thousands. Marriott would take on less than the current due to efficiency. It's just the way it works with companies who have been doing these and larger transactions into their core business for decades.

The College Program? Marriott has a well established worldwide program. Has for Decades. So they rent 10-15% of lodging space back from Disney. Big deal. My son could do that transaction.

And I guarantee you the integration points are already in NextGen for exactly this type of necessity and others.

Heck, I've never had one issue with my Loew's issued room key getting me in the Universal Parks, or using it to buy in-Park meals, Citywalk meals, water from the street vendors, or merch in the shops.

Disney doesn't have an exclusive on MB's. Even Great Wolf has been using the same tech for decades

Don't make it out as rocket science.

Like we used to say with these types of transactions: "the only ones who make it out as difficult or impossible are the ones who don't want it to happen"

Besides, you aren't concentrating on the positives for us the guests. I would love to have a $3K Disney Hotel bill translate into 30K Marriott or Starwood Points - free room or discount on a luxury one anywhere in the world.

Or check in to find St Regis or Fairmont quality amenities, linens and pillows at the Boardwalk or GF.

And the biggest - Disney focused exclusively on the Parks - in theory, at least

If Marriott were to take over operations at Disney hotels and pay a handsome commission to do so...both companies would be celebrated with bread and circuses on wall street.

They have a 85% round the year occupancy rate at rack prices well above the market value...it's hard to quantify just how coveted that is in the travel and leisure business.

And Disney would shed 50% of their labor obligations while keeping virtually all of the profit. (The profit is in the giftshops...that is verifyable in the annual reports). The "revenue" would fall...but the
Profit would stay the same...
Think Wall Street would like that?

It's my opinion...but I authorize you to take it as fact.

You're right @clsteve, I'm far from an expert in this area so I'll stop here. I do believe their are fundamental things you're overlooking. I could be wrong though.

@lockedoutlogic where in the annual reports does it say that? What section?

 

[LeeAndRobin]

As outlined above in my response,
I guess I'll call up my high school / college to request that all astronomy classes are taken offline, because I was told on a discussion forum entitled "News And Rumors" that anything based in theory with a high likelihood of being true is nothing more than pure mularky...

Nope, in science we clearly state that much of what we talk about and teach is just theory, nothing more, and will only last until a better theory comes along. But we don't call it a fact unless it is a fact. What you still don't comprehend is the difference between a theory and people stating things as fact that are clearly not. A scientist would never do that. Once again, the problem here is people stating rumors but calling them facts, "100%". And again, for the 1000th time, I have no problem with the rumors, just people who state them as facts. There is a big difference between a fact and a theory.

It appears we just need to agree to disagree on this and move on.

 

[Andrew015]

Nope, in science we clearly state that much of what we talk about and teach is just theory, nothing more, and will only last until a better theory comes along. But we don't call it a fact unless it is a fact. What you still don't comprehend is the difference between a theory and people stating things as fact that are clearly not. A scientist would never do that. Once again, the problem here is people stating rumors but calling them facts, "100%". And again, for the 1000th time, I have no problem with the rumors, just people who state them as facts. There is a big difference between a fact and a theory.

I clearly understand the differences. What I do not understand is why anyone in search of Facts to a question that no one in the general population could possibly have the answers to... would then come to a discussion forum entitled Rumors, only to be disappointed when they get Theories that are 99.97% probable.

It appears we just need to agree to disagree on this and move on.

No argument here

 

[Andrew015]

As far as the commercial featuring the monorail goes... There's another angle there...

Can you guess about what it is? Hint: don't doubt their ability to get you to admit what you didnt know you were thinking.

I know... I know....!!! They wanted to show off the new carpeting

 

[lockedoutlogic]

[QUOTE="DDLand, post: 53327498]

@lockedoutlogic where in the annual reports does it say that? What section?[/QUOTE]

I have not poured through it in several years... But the last time i did - 2012 I think - buried back in the 50 pages of financials or so they had the revenue divided up for parks by category...
That year it was around 8 billion in revenue...I think?
And the then revenue split out roughly 50% between product sales and EVERYTHING else...

Now I'm not Disney's accountant...but I can tell you (not 100% iron clad... But not coming from a first grader). That the merch category is very low overhead cost and the "everything else" is where the vast majority of the overhead is categorized...

What's that mean?

The profit is in the shops...people do dispute that here and claim that hotel rooms and tickets yield massive profits... But the reality is that it's not even close. Food is somewhere more than the heavy overhead categories...but still not close to merch.

So back to outsourcing...a hotelier operating the resorts would not provide much of an impact to the wdw gravy train.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know... I know....!!! They wanted to show off the new carpeting

Touché

 

[DDLand]

[QUOTE="DDLand, post: 53327498]

@lockedoutlogic where in the annual reports does it say that? What section?

I have not poured through it in several years... But the last time i did - 2012 I think - buried back in the 50 pages of financials or so they had the revenue divided up for parks by category...
That year it was around 8 billion in revenue...I think?
And the then revenue split out roughly 50% between product sales and EVERYTHING else...

Now I'm not Disney's accountant...but I can tell you (not 100% iron clad... But not coming from a first grader). That the merch category is very low overhead cost and the "everything else" is where the vast majority of the overhead is categorized...

What's that mean?

The profit is in the shops...people do dispute that here and claim that hotel rooms and tickets yield massive profits... But the reality is that it's not even close. Food is somewhere more than the heavy overhead categories...but still not close to merch.

So back to outsourcing...a hotelier operating the resorts would not provide much of an impact to the wdw gravy train.

Thanks, I'll look that up.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I started skimming some of the first couple pages, but it seemed to be devolving rather quickly, sooo I've skipped ahead to the end here. Apologies if my thoughts have already been discussed.

As discussed in the early going, the monorail costs and reliability are unknown those outside of Disney's inner-workings. But with the advancement of technology it's likely both the monorail and the buses as they currently exist will be rendered obsolete. Progress with driverless cars and pod systems can provide the flexibility of bus systems vs a fixed track with the more constant speed and efficiency intended by the monorail -- or Walt's intent of the People Mover for E.P.C.O.T. as he envisioned it.

Driverless technology is poised to reshape public transportation over the next decade, and likely even faster within smaller communities like WDW where they have their own transportation infrastructure and less political hurdles. For the technology in question it may not be much more than designating a lane or two, and possibly altering pickup and dropoff points. And the benefit is quicker, more efficient transportation -- something that can fuel the bottom line as less time sitting on a mode of transportation is more time spent in a resort or park with sales opportunities.

Companies are already running intracity and interstate driverless tests, reducing the incentive for investing additional money into the monorail at this time. For the monorail itself, they may be eyeing advances in proposed pod systems for a futuristic replacement that utilize the existing track but perhaps with more efficiency.

Nope, in science we clearly state that much of what we talk about and teach is just theory, nothing more, and will only last until a better theory comes along. But we don't call it a fact unless it is a fact.

Not to be argumentative, but in so much as science deals explicitly in theory, much of what the lay community can take from those theories are essentially facts. Gravity for example.