Monorail Crash Kills Operator

[11290]

And you can also take a survey if you want to ride it again. Yes is winning at 82% when I just looked.

I was working turnstiles at the MK yesterday when the monorail reopened in the afternoon and people were flocking to the station. By the end of Wishes the lines for the monorail were LOOOOOONG.

All morning and early afternoon, while they were test running the system, people exiting the turnsitles were asking when they would get to ride the monorails again. Obviously, popular as ever.

 

[scooter15]

I'm finding the opposite, that the NTSB is pretty generally involved in many types of transportation investigations, from the scope of size of september 11th all the way down to semi truck crashed bearing hazardous materials. I'd say that the highly used monorail falls well within this scope and let's be honest, the monorail incident in itself is highly unusual and irregular just by relation of its namesake alone.

The NTSB is primarily responsible for investigating accidents that could have an impact on freight and public transit. That is why they investigate anything that happens on the railways which are under federal jurisdiction to truck accidents on highways. The monorail even though the one at WDW acts as a public transit system it is considered a permanent amusement ride and it would fall under the Florida state's amusement ride safety dept. which is usually under OSHA or Florida's version of OSHA. There is no federal transportation impact with the monorail and frankly, this is not an issue that the NTSB would handle.

 

[doconeill]

I don't know how the NTSB mandate reads exactly, but I believe that because the monorail is a passenger-carrying operation, and a major one at that, the NTSB believes they have jurisdiction, and no one seems to be questioning it at the moment (other than people on fan forums). They don't usually get involved with fully private-owned/private land systems, but the monorail itself is somewhat unique, and I don't know if anything in the NTSB mandate says that it can only investigate "public" systems.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm finding the opposite, that the NTSB is pretty generally involved in many types of transportation investigations, from the scope of size of september 11th all the way down to semi truck crashed bearing hazardous materials. I'd say that the highly used monorail falls well within this scope and let's be honest, the monorail incident in itself is highly unusual and irregular just by relation of its namesake alone.

Whatever anyone's opinion of NTSB jurisdiction, they are in fact joining the investigation. They did say, however, that this is the first time they have ever investigated an accident of a private transportation system on private property.

Overall, I think both the OSHA and NTSB investigations will be helpful. As a practical matter, Disney owns Reedy Creek Improvement District and therefore the fire/EMS operation. The size and importance of WDW always makes Orange County and State of Florida investigations a little suspect.

Not that the investigations are not professionally done, but the federal involvement in this situation will add independence and some additional credibility.

 

[skier_pete]

First off, OSHA would come in automatically with a fatality, Disney has no choice on this matter. OSHA also can be called in by an employee if the employee suspects unsafe work practices. OSHA can also come in for "surprise" inspections - but these are pretty rare.

Second, it is unlikely that Disney would cut corners regarding safety. I work for a big company, and we are cutting everywhere...except safety. Companies are run by the lawyers as well as bean counters now, and they are terrified of accidents like this leading to major lawsuits...which is why safety is usually maintained as a very high priority. It is unlikely that Disney would behave any different. However, it is possible that cuts in staffing resulted in extra fatigue that led to the accident, though this may be hard to prove.

SkierPete

 

[thefirebuilds]

First off, OSHA would come in automatically with a fatality, Disney has no choice on this matter. OSHA also can be called in by an employee if the employee suspects unsafe work practices. OSHA can also come in for "surprise" inspections - but these are pretty rare.

Second, it is unlikely that Disney would cut corners regarding safety. I work for a big company, and we are cutting everywhere...except safety. Companies are run by the lawyers as well as bean counters now, and they are terrified of accidents like this leading to major lawsuits...which is why safety is usually maintained as a very high priority. It is unlikely that Disney would behave any different. However, it is possible that cuts in staffing resulted in extra fatigue that led to the accident, though this may be hard to prove.

SkierPete

It's not always explicit like ... we'll buy less rope for maintenance workers, or we'll buy less batteries for walkie talkies. For me, though, the environment I work in has become more and more challenging every day due to over management of the bottom line. I think this is not atypical for the Dis corp, but like everyone else I'm tilting at windmills.

 

[thefirebuilds]

cool video if it hasnt been posted already:

http://www.examiner.com/x-9082-Walt...l-pilot-Austin-Wuennenberg-at-top-of-his-game

 

[lilmissdisney216]

cool video if it hasnt been posted already:

http://www.examiner.com/x-9082-Walt...l-pilot-Austin-Wuennenberg-at-top-of-his-game

Such a cool video. That's awesome. He seemed like such a cool kid.

 

[JimMIA]

You should post that video link as a separate thread. The smiles on the little boy's face are a great tribute to Austin!

 

[tarkus]

Whatever anyone's opinion of NTSB jurisdiction, they are in fact joining the investigation. They did say, however, that this is the first time they have ever investigated an accident of a private transportation system on private property.

Overall, I think both the OSHA and NTSB investigations will be helpful. As a practical matter, Disney owns Reedy Creek Improvement District and therefore the fire/EMS operation. The size and importance of WDW always makes Orange County and State of Florida investigations a little suspect.

Not that the investigations are not professionally done, but the federal involvement in this situation will add independence and some additional credibility.

I tend to agree with you on this. Independent investigation should be welcomed by Disney, and I'm sure they will cooperate fully with the Feds, because as you stated their is always a bit of suspicion when it comes to Reedy Creek.

Now in all fairness Disney has been running this monorail 365 days a year for something like 30 years without major incident. Hard to argue with that safety record.

What it does show is that NOTHING is "fail safe". There is risk in everything, even if it's made by Disney.

Regards,
Alan

 

[11290]

Whatever a

nyone's opinion of NTSB jurisdiction, they are in fact joining the investigation. They did say, however, that this is the first time they have ever investigated an accident of a private transportation system on private property.

I have no problem with them doing the investigation as I have a lot of faith in the NTSB in their thoroughness in other investigations.

Have to wonder though, did their families come with them to also enjoy a "free" 4 or 5 day vacation to WDW? Just the bad in me coming out.

 

[deej696]

WESH in Orlando just reported that as we have discussed here the a failure of the switch to turn is what the overall cause of the crash was confirmed to be. The pink train was being taken off Epcot line and put on the MK line to return to depot. The NTSB concluded that there was no failure in the computer system operating the switch, and that the switch is/was functioning propertly.

Translation: Someone didnt activate the switch....

They also reported that it appears that the operator (Austin) was not at a complete stop in TTC and had attempted to put his train in reverse to avoid the collision

 

[WI WDWGIRL]

WESH in Orlando just reported that as we have discussed here the a failure of the switch to turn is what the overall cause of the crash was confirmed to be. The pink train was being taken off Epcot line and put on the MK line to return to depot. The NTSB concluded that there was no failure in the computer system operating the switch, and that the switch is/was functioning propertly.

Translation: Someone didnt activate the switch....

They also reported that it appears that the operator (Austin) was not at a complete stop in TTC and had attempted to put his train in reverse to avoid the collision

As if I didn't feel bad enough before for Austin, now I feel just sick...

 

[splash327]

The NTSB is primarily responsible for investigating accidents that could have an impact on freight and public transit. That is why they investigate anything that happens on the railways which are under federal jurisdiction to truck accidents on highways. The monorail even though the one at WDW acts as a public transit system it is considered a permanent amusement ride and it would fall under the Florida state's amusement ride safety dept. which is usually under OSHA or Florida's version of OSHA. There is no federal transportation impact with the monorail and frankly, this is not an issue that the NTSB would handle.

What if Disney asked the NTSB to investigate?

 

[JimMIA]

The NTSB is primarily responsible for investigating accidents that could have an impact on freight and public transit. That is why they investigate anything that happens on the railways which are under federal jurisdiction to truck accidents on highways. The monorail even though the one at WDW acts as a public transit system it is considered a permanent amusement ride and it would fall under the Florida state's amusement ride safety dept. which is usually under OSHA or Florida's version of OSHA. There is no federal transportation impact with the monorail and frankly, this is not an issue that the NTSB would handle.

Opinions notwithstanding, NTSB IS investigating the accident. So is OSHA.

 

[JimMIA]

WESH in Orlando just reported that as we have discussed here the a failure of the switch to turn is what the overall cause of the crash was confirmed to be. The pink train was being taken off Epcot line and put on the MK line to return to depot. The NTSB concluded that there was no failure in the computer system operating the switch, and that the switch is/was functioning propertly.

Translation: Someone didnt activate the switch....

They also reported that it appears that the operator (Austin) was not at a complete stop in TTC and had attempted to put his train in reverse to avoid the collision

If, in fact, he was able to get the Purple train moving backwards even slightly, that action may have been what kept the passengers from being injured. If you wade through all that physics stuff we went through a few pages ago, you'll see that Austin's train moving away from the Pink train would have greatly lessened the impact.

It's a terrible tragedy, but if there is one bright spot, that's it.

 

[tim5055]

Latest update:

NTSB: No mechanical problems in Disney monorail

The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 8, 2009 7:10 PM

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Federal investigators are focusing on why a switch failed to change positions in the monorail crash that killed an operator at Walt Disney World over the weekend.

The National Transportation Safety Board reported Wednesday that no malfunctions have been found with the automatic train stop system, nor with any mechanical parts of the switch. No mechanical problems were found with the two trains that collided Sunday.

The accident killed 21-year-old Austin Wuennenberg.

A pink train was backing up in order to change tracks from the Epcot loop to the Magic Kingdom loop shortly before the accident. However, the switch that would have allowed the pink train to be routed to the Magic Kingdom loop had not changed positions. As a result, the pink train went back down the same track it had come from and collided with a purple train controlled by Wuennenberg, according to the NTSB.

The agency said it appears Wuennenberg tried to put his train in reverse to avoid the collision.

 

[JimMIA]

Have to wonder though, did their families come with them to also enjoy a "free" 4 or 5 day vacation to WDW? Just the bad in me coming out.

I'm quite sure their families are NOT accompanying the investigators! If they did, I'm sure "the bad" would come out in a LOT of people...myself included.

 

[JimMIA]

Latest update:

NTSB: No mechanical problems in Disney monorail

The National Transportation Safety Board reported Wednesday that no malfunctions have been found with the automatic train stop system...

That figures. It had previously reported here by a CM that the pink train had been cleared to back up, and had also been cleared to disable the automatic stopping system.

, nor with any mechanical parts of the switch.

Translation: Someone didnt activate the switch....

Too early to tell for sure, but it sure seems that way.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm finding the opposite, that the NTSB is pretty generally involved in many types of transportation investigations, from the scope of size of september 11th all the way down to semi truck crashed bearing hazardous materials. I'd say that the highly used monorail falls well within this scope and let's be honest, the monorail incident in itself is highly unusual and irregular just by relation of its namesake alone.

Investigating Disney is unusual in this circumstance.

When I first read about NTSB investigating, I got the impression that they had a compelling interest to investigate. Not necessarily to find fault with Disney--but to see if there is something they could learn for future incidents.

For example--aren't their monorails in Seattle for example?

After the metro accident in which a sensor failed--it seems that NTSB felt it appropriate to see if there was anything they could learn from this incident that could be used to enhance safety in other public forms of transit.

Other than that, it doesn't fall within scope b/c as stated, it is equivilant to the tea cups or Rock N Roller Coaster as a form of transportation b/c of its location on private property.