Monorail and wheelchairs

[Oglet]

I should also post that our very first morning we met the nicest CM ever working the monorail at the Poly. They have all been great other than the incident noted in the OP. It has been a good trip.

You wouldn't happen to remember their name would you?

 

[SueM in MN]

A lot of folks who use strollers as a wheelchair are great and quite often tell us to not put a ramp down since they can easily get the stroller/wheelchair on without any problem and in all honesty throughout the course of a day they have probably popped the stroller/wheelchair back on 2 wheels numerous times going up and down curbs etc however I still offer.

Usually the CM beats us to it and puts down the ramp, but we often do that with DD's wheelchair because it is pretty easy to pop the weight to the back wheels so that the front wheels go up into the monorail.
Once you have done that, it is easy to push the wheelchair onto the monorail.
My DD is 24 and we have been dealing with a wheelchair for 21 years, when most things were not accessible. We just got used to not always having things accessible and having to make do, so maybe I have a different perspective.

I've said this in a previous post but to me there is more to this then just being rude.

Some have said this may have happened to keep the monorail on schedule. Would telling the patrons to lift up the chair and the 11yr old child into the monorail instead of putting down the ramp save any amount of time?

I also believe there is a huge saftey issue here also telling the patron to lift up the chair and child into the monorail. What would happen if they tripped or lost their footing while lifting the transport chair into the monorail?

Is it up to the discretion of the CM's at the station when and when not to use a ramp or is there some policies in place?

The OP was in the handicap loading section and also reminded the CM that they had a wheelchair. This is a chair for an 11yr old, its got to be bigger and more obvious that its not a typical stroller for toddlers.

I'm glad this isn't hampering their vacation.

Without knowing what was in the CM's head, my guess is that he thought they would just pop a wheelie and put her on, the same as guests loading strollers do.
The words the OP wrote they were told were:

"I don't care. I'm not loading her. You can pick her up and load her".

That could have the interpretation of lift her entirely off the ground in the wheelchair and lift her on or pick up the front wheels (pop a wheelie).
My guess (although I obviously don't know) is that he thought they would pop a wheelie.

We have not totally lifted DD's wheelchair like that on the monorail, but have done it to get DD's wheelchair onto a boat a number of times - once a year when we rent a boat at OKW and several times to get onto WDW transportation boats. We also do it whenever we visit my mom because her apartment building has 3 steps to get up. We know what we are doing and it is not dangerous the way we do it.

The difference is that we knew we would be lifting her in, we expected it and planned how to do it.
If the OP had the option to choose whether or not they felt it was safe for them at that time or whether to use the ramp, it would be different. They could have decided if they felt it was safe or not.
So, IMHO, it was more rude than dangerous to be told to put the wheelchair onto the monorail without using the ramp.

And, unless the OP lets us know the size of their child, we don't know that she is the size of an average 11 yr old. Some children with disabilities are very small. One young man in my DD's dance class is 28 yrs old and is about the size of an average 3 yr old. Through the years, DD has a had several kids in her classrooms who were much smaller than average and looked like preschoolers.
That doesn't excuse rudeness (and I do think the CM was rude), but it is possible that an 11 yr old could be mistaken for a younger child.

First: It's wonderful to be able to talk to a CM about these issues. Thank you!

I will be on a 3-wheeler ECV in November. A ramp is always required when boarding the Monorail on one of these.. correct?

Oh my! Just saw an image in my mind of me trying to pop a wheelie on one of those things.

I don't think you could pop a wheelie with an ECV very easily
(you do possibly have to be careful with the 3 wheeled ones if you are going up a steep hill though, because most of the weight is on the back, it would be possible for the front wheel to come off the ground because there is little weight on it.

In cars 3 and 4 ECV's and wheelchairs take priority, guests who ride in those cars are required to make room for ECV's or Wheelchairs should the space be needed, this can be a simple as folding up the stroller and making room or being put in to another car.

As far as I am concerned it is quite clearly posted inside the monorail and if they have a problem moving then they should choose a different car when getting on the monorail.

I absolutely have no problem enforcing this, If a guest starts to argue about being moved I'm more than happy pointing out the sign posted in the monorail or offering either security or monorail managements assistance.

We have had the CM point out to guests that they need to make room for DD's wheelchair. Most of the time, they are pretty nice about it.
It is helpful when a CM pops in to assist.

We have run into some rude transportation CMs, mostly on the buses. The complaint we made was about a driver who was 'shooting the breeze' talking to someone else while the bus was parked and completely ignored us. After we were on the bus, he refused to bend down to attach the tiedown straps to the area where I told him to and was insisting he needed to attach it "high up for safety" even when I told him that part was not safe to attach to. He argued with me and then tried to tell me that it was safe and acceptable to attach only 2 of the 4 tiedown straps.
At that point, I told him we were getting off the bus, which he gave us a hard time about.
That was rude and dangerous. It's also possible that the CM in the OP's situation was more like that.

I'm glad that it sounds like the OP got some closure on this and hopefully the CM will think a little more with the next guest.

 

[Oglet]

I don't think you could pop a wheelie with an ECV very easily
(you do possibly have to be careful with the 3 wheeled ones if you are going up a steep hill though, because most of the weight is on the back, it would be possible for the front wheel to come off the ground because there is little weight on it.

Even something like the ramps, I've actually seen people come out backwards too fast only to stop on the ramp causing the ECV to flip backwards.

 

[SueM in MN]

Even something like the ramps, I've actually seen people come out backwards too fast only to stop on the ramp causing the ECV to flip backwards.

I know what you mean.
There is a term for what happens - it happens on farms with tractors because there is relatively little weight on the front tire and almost all the weight is on the back.

 

[MattDisney]

You wouldn't happen to remember their name would you?

I didn't get his name. I am going to keep liking for him and hope to see him again. It was Friday morning at the Poly around 7:15 to 7:30 in the morning. I want to write a letter about how nice he was.

 

[DSquare]

Our son is just turning 4 and is unable to stand or weight bear through his legs. We live in FL and all of us have annual passes to WDW. We have gone many times with a stroller and starting around when he turned 3 we started getting a GAC card and a sticker for the stroller to use as a wheelchair. In general the CM's have always been very helpful, sometimes we have to show them the sticker but thats understandable cause it's not always easy to see. Sometimes while after passing one CM another will run up to us and say we need to stroller park but after showing the tag or the other CM yelling over they have been apologetic.

I can only recall one instance where the CM was less then helpful and that was at the entrance to Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground at HS. He asked to see our GAC card (which hardly ever they do after seeing the tag on the wheelchair) and then he stood there and looked over it for what seemed like minutes while others behind us where not being so patient. Finally another CM came over and finally let us through without any problem.

The other problem we have gotten is from other patrons. Countless times we have been told that we are not allowed to bring the stroller in line with us or we get the glare looks. One time stands out though. We were in line for the Monster's Laugh In at MK. We were in the handicap line behind a elderly group of four, two of which were using ECVs. We were also a group of 4 being my two kids (3 and 5), the wife and I. We pull up behind them and immediately they start glaring at us and whispering to themselves. After a few minutes while we are watching the preshow on of the ladies on the ECV turns around and tells us we are in the wrong line, this line is for disabled guest only in a real snarky tone. I explained we are using the stroller as a wheelchair. She said well if someone comes through with a 'real' disability that she expects us to move. That boiled my blood and sitting through the show I kept thinking what should I do, what should I do. For the sake of the kids we just ignored it.

We have always used the tip-up method getting on/off the monorail with no problem but again he's 3 so it's easy enough. He is now in his own powerchair which is great for him and haven't run into any issues what so ever with having a ramp placed down.

I should know better then to assume the size of the 11yr old of the OP. It just gets to me when there are so many better way to say something then, "I don't care. I'm not loading her. You can pick her up and load her". I do get that CM's put up with alot and its hard to always put on a smile but still this comment still is uncalled for.

 

[POOHsie]

The other problem we have gotten is from other patrons. ... She said well if someone comes through with a 'real' disability that she expects us to move. That boiled my blood and sitting through the show I kept thinking what should I do, what should I do. For the sake of the kids we just ignored it.

I use an ecv myself. Some elderly people can be impossible to deal with one-on-one, and I would ignore them without letting them get under my skin. If you had a snappy reply handy, that might shut the woman's mouth. How about saying to her, "If you don't stop bothering us, we will complain to Disney and have you removed!" That puts the power of the situation back into your hands and you won't feel so victimized.

 

[eelore]

Ive never ran into any problems on the monorail like this and it is unacceptable for any cast member to refuse to accomodate you! Not only that but it is against the law according to the Americans with Disabilities Act for them to do so! They Have to by law provide reasonable accomodation for persons with disabilities and the simple act of taking a few minutes to secure a ramp to load someone in a chair is definitely reasonable accomodation! I used to work as an advocate for disability rights and have fought against people like this cast member on more than one occasion who were found in violation of the law! I love Disney and am a Disney fanatic but i do not tolerate such discrimination from anyone! You shouldnt either! Disney hates bad press and lawsuits and if that had happened to me I would let that manager know and the Disney board of directors know that that cast member was in violation of the law and that I was not going to stand for that kind of treatment! I know such circumstances are humiliating for people in a chair and makes then feel bad for someting that they arent at fault for. I am very disappointed with the behavior of that cast member! It should be reported to Disney and dealt with! If they blew me off and didnt deal with it I'd take it to the ADA and file a report and to the nearest news paper I could find. A call from an advocate should put things into perspective for Disney real quick!

Maybe that seems harsh but it really gets to me when people act like that! There is no excuse for it and cast members are trained to know better! I dont care if you were in line with 50 other scooters and 300 walkers, they should have STILL accomodated you with a ramp regardless of time!! That manager gave you a bogus excuse! Cast members are trained better then that! They are trained in how to assist persons with disabilities and about the law!
No excuses for that! Dont let that person get away with it! It may save someone not able to speak up from having to go through the same thing!

 

[Oglet]

Ive never ran into any problems on the monorail like this and it is unacceptable for any cast member to refuse to accomodate you! Not only that but it is against the law according to the Americans with Disabilities Act for them to do so! They Have to by law provide reasonable accomodation for persons with disabilities and the simple act of taking a few minutes to secure a ramp to load someone in a chair is definitely reasonable accomodation! I used to work as an advocate for disability rights and have fought against people like this cast member on more than one occasion who were found in violation of the law! I love Disney and am a Disney fanatic but i do not tolerate such discrimination from anyone! You shouldnt either! Disney hates bad press and lawsuits and if that had happened to me I would let that manager know and the Disney board of directors know that that cast member was in violation of the law and that I was not going to stand for that kind of treatment! I know such circumstances are humiliating for people in a chair and makes then feel bad for someting that they arent at fault for. I am very disappointed with the behavior of that cast member! It should be reported to Disney and dealt with! If they blew me off and didnt deal with it I'd take it to the ADA and file a report and to the nearest news paper I could find. A call from an advocate should put things into perspective for Disney real quick!

Maybe that seems harsh but it really gets to me when people act like that! There is no excuse for it and cast members are trained to know better! I dont care if you were in line with 50 other scooters and 300 walkers, they should have STILL accomodated you with a ramp regardless of time!! That manager gave you a bogus excuse! Cast members are trained better then that! They are trained in how to assist persons with disabilities and about the law!
No excuses for that! Dont let that person get away with it! It may save someone not able to speak up from having to go through the same thing!

How do you know the manager gave a bogus excuse? By the OP's update it appears as if the matter was taken up with the Cast Member and it would have been inappropriate for the Manager to come to a complete conclusion without first talking to the CM in question.

The problem is these days everyone is wanting to run to the media, file complaints with various departments and agencies and threaten lawsuits. For those reasons whenever something like this comes to the attention of Management in any company they are not going to admit anything that could potentially come back and bite them, just because they don't openly admit something it doesn't mean they are not going to do something about it. Remember while we are talking about rights etc there are also privacy laws which limit the amount of information an employer can discuss about one of their employees.

Diplomacy goes a long way and I commend the OP for the way in which they handled the situation given the circumstances, there are always going to be these kind of situations that occur, we don't live in a perfect world so all we can do is address them as they come up and do our best to prevent them from happening again.

Now with all that said if the OP would of had a similar experience the next day with same CM It would be a very different story, by running and filing an ADA complaint without even giving the company a chance to remedy the problem means that all you are doing is using up resources that could be used to address issues that companies are doing nothing about, this helps no one.

After all in the end we want everyone to be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.