Moms with HS Seniors

[budmonster]

my oldest is a college sophmore at a small school and loves it. My senior in high school wants BIG...so during his jr year we went to u of ill, ia,indiana, perdue, the ohio state and u of florida....
Taken ACTS
Gotten his AP scores
So he is set, but unsure about schools...so we keep looking

I vote for University of Florida, but I'm just a little partial to them.

Go Gators!!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Yes, she is a senior. Her ACT isn't great, about 20, I think. I've tried to get her to consider taking it one last time but she's adamant(this is her second time testing.) I think if she can get in, passing the auditions won't be a problem

20 is way too low. My 7th grade dd got a 24. She MUST retake and boost that score.

Double check her score. This is what will hold her back.

ETA Mizzous requirements. Problem you run into is that most of the applicants have higher scores and you are competing with them for admissions. Check the schools she wants for the ACT requirements.

ACT SAT HS Class
(CR–M) % Rank
23 1050–1080 48
22 1010–1040 54
21 970–1000 62
20 930–960 69
19 890–920 78
18 840–880 86
17 800–830 94

 

[MrsPete]

I have a question for those in the know. When did you (or are you) going to do campus visits? . . . I'm afraid that we'll go see these schools and then find out she doesn't have a prayer of getting in. . . . Apply first and see where she gets accepted and THEN visit before deciding?

This isn't a time to protect her feelings. VISIT the "realistic schools" that interest her, and if she isn't admitted, then it's a life lesson. Having said that, with a 2.67 GPA I wouldn't take her to schools where you know she blatantly won't be accepted (if you were in NC, I'd say don't take her to Duke or Carolina, but that may not mean much to you).

And believe me, kids come back from some visits disenchanted with THE SCHOOL they've been set upon for years. Visiting is tremendously important. Just last week I heard a bad story: The son of a casual aquaintance went to his over-the-summer freshman orientation, and he came back saying, "I AM NOT GOING THERE". Once he actually visited the campus, he realized that it was quite remote and isolated (which is true, but a visit would've shown him that earlier), and he realized it wasn't for him. Now they're scrambling, trying to get him admitted somewhere else. Even though he's a top student, that's a tough job at this date. Personally, I suspect he's' going to do a year at community college and then transfer -- and while that's a fine choice, for this boy it may be a default rather than a choice.

I've sent her to the guidance counselor who continually tells her "you can anywhere you want to go" . . . She has visited 10 schools (big, small, public, private, in-state, out of state) or so and has settled on an out of state mid-sized public university as her current first choice. I'm concerned that she is just overwhelmed with the process and is settling just to have it done with in her mind. Knowing her, she will reopen all this mid year and we will be in crises mode. How are y'all doing on getting the kids to focus on their school choices?

She's visited 10 schools and is considering them all viable candidates? I assume all of them offer the major she wants and all of them are affordable? None are rejected for practical reasons? I'd suggest this exercise:

On 10 index cards, write the school names and a list of the 3-5 best (and 3-5 worst) things about that school: Great facilities, offers a study abroad program, textbook rental program, could walk to many things in the city, but it's not all that affordable, the dorms are a long walk, and I'd rather go somewhere warmer . . . whatever's appropriate for that school. Do this with her, and help her think through what she liked and disliked. Don't do this while you're hurried or when she (or you) is feeling frantic about it. Then move your cards around. Which three are the best (can't settle on three? Okay, move four to the top row.) Which ones aren't quite as appealing? Move them downward. Most teenagers are visual creatures, and the act of writing out the pros and cons and moving cards around is the kind of thing that'll help them start to prioritize one item over the other. After she's done this -- and it might take more than a week to complete this discussion; I'd put the cards on the refrigerator and watch them move up and down as she considers various things -- visit the top three schools again.

You've already hit on some very important things in discussing big school vs. small school . . . urban vs. rural, etc. Those things matter tremendously. For example, my oldest will thrive at a large school with loads of offerings, while my youngest -- I already know -- would be overwhelmed in that situation.

Dollars to doughnuts, I'd betcha her lack of decision is -- at least in part -- based on fear of chosing wrong. Emphasize to her that these schools are all acceptable, and that there's no right or wrong answer.

And keep this in mind: Scholarship money often isn't announced until spring, late spring even. So a school that had looked "okay, but definitely second to this other one" might suddenly spring into the forefront if she learns they're willing to give her a tuition-scholarship (I'm thinking about a last-spring student of mine who was SET on attending School #1, had her housing deposit in, was already wearing their tee-shirts to school . . . and then LATE in the year she got a BIG scholarship for School #2. A big, prestigious scholarship to an excellent school. She found out on a Friday, and she said that she cried the whole weekend as she "let go" all the dreams she'd gathered in her mind for School #1, let go the idea of wearing black and gold to football games, walking to class in the snow, giving up the idea of her high school friend as a roommate . . . and then she was able to move on to creating a new vision of herself at School #2, to look around for a new roommate, etc. After she'd mourned what she'd spent so much energy putting together, she was able to start to see good things about School #2 . . . but she couldn't do it on THE DAY she got the scholarship and knew that she couldn't turn it down.) So I wouldn't worry at this point about choosing THE SCHOOL -- rather, try to narrow it down to three.

 

[golfgal]

I have a question for those in the know. When did you (or are you) going to do campus visits? I'm really unsure. DD17 is interested in about 5 schools. Two might be safety schools(state) and the other three might be a stretch(2 private, 1 state). Her GPA is only 2.67--I know, not good. Her maths have seriously sunk her. She's been an A/B student in almost everything else, with the occasional C. She is heavily involved in fine arts and service work. I'm afraid that we'll go see these schools and then find out she doesn't have a prayer of getting in. I don't mind taking the time, but I just hate to take her on a wild goose chase visiting colleges that aren't going to giver her a second thought. She wants to go to a school that offers a dance minor, at the least. A dance major would be very good, but those schools are few and far between (at least, schools we can afford). None of the community colleges offer dance programs and I seriously don't think she can live 2 years at a school without dance. It's her life.

I am no help here. I applied to my first college without much thought. Hated it and transferred to another school that I had seen once. Fortunately loved it and never left until graduation. What would you do? Go see the schools anyway? Apply first and see where she gets accepted and THEN visit before deciding?

Applications take money. I would take her on some visits now-do some research online about admission standards and select that way. Go visit and apply early, September early, to one or two that you know she can get into. Typically they will have rolling admissions and you will get an answer back pretty quickly. Once she has been accepted to a school, go ahead and apply at a more selective school if she wants and then you know you have a back up. Just make sure she understands that her GPA and ACT scores are really working against her. If she can get her ACT score up to 24, she will have no issues getting into most state schools. In her case I would strongly recommend she take an ACT prep class, scheduled to finish as close as possible to a test date (even if you get some books and do the tests online at the ACT site) to see if she can improve that score. Some schools will look at composite scores so if she gets good scores in some areas on one test and good scores in other areas on another test they will combine those for a composite score.

Also, if she is willing to accept a minor in dance, many schools will allow you to create your own so as long as they offer dance but maybe don't have a "major" or "minor" you could still probably do something with that.

What are the chances of her making a real living out of dance? I know she loves dance but does she have what it takes do make a living at it. If yes, find a dance major if maybe, find a school where she can still take dance but get a degree in something that will allow her to be employed when she graduates and she can dance on the side.

 

[Jeafl]

I too have a son who is going to be a senior this fall. I also have a daughter who is going to be a senior in college, but that's a whole 'nother story!

I think Mrs. Pete is giving great advice. All through high school my oldest daughter wanted to go to U of Illinois. No doubt in her mind, that was the school. I FORCED her to look at a small school and a medium school as well, just to get a feel for it. We visited the medium school first, and she thought it was just ok. We then visited U of I and the small school (Augustana) on the same weekend. She pouted and complained the entire way to Augustana on how it was a waste of time, she was going to U of I, etc.

Long story short, she LOVED Augustana and ended up hating U of I. The atmosphere at a small school was so much more welcoming. The people were really nice, the campus was beautiful, and she just had a good feeling about it. When we visited U of I it was cold, impersonal, and she didn't like the fact that she would never really know her teachers, and would probably have 300 kids in some of her classes. Some people thrive at big schools, but she was smart enough to realize she wasn't one of them.

I guess my point is, make sure you look into different size schools even if your child thinks he/she is POSITIVE they know what they want.

 

[golfgal]

I too have a son who is going to be a senior this fall. I also have a daughter who is going to be a senior in college, but that's a whole 'nother story!

I think Mrs. Pete is giving great advice. All through high school my oldest daughter wanted to go to U of Illinois. No doubt in her mind, that was the school. I FORCED her to look at a small school and a medium school as well, just to get a feel for it. We visited the medium school first, and she thought it was just ok. We then visited U of I and the small school (Augustana) on the same weekend. She pouted and complained the entire way to Augustana on how it was a waste of time, she was going to U of I, etc.

Long story short, she LOVED Augustana and ended up hating U of I. The atmosphere at a small school was so much more welcoming. The people were really nice, the campus was beautiful, and she just had a good feeling about it. When we visited U of I it was cold, impersonal, and she didn't like the fact that she would never really know her teachers, and would probably have 300 kids in some of her classes. Some people thrive at big schools, but she was smart enough to realize she wasn't one of them.

I guess my point is, make sure you look into different size schools even if your child thinks he/she is POSITIVE they know what they want.

DS was going to go to the University of Minnesota-there is no WAY that would work for him-our directionally challenged kid. He was open to visiting other campuses and had been too other colleges for camps and whatnot. He fell in love with a small campus and that is the only application he submitted-we did it early so he would know if he got in or not-if not, we would have applied elsewhere.

 

[budmonster]

Did the counselor perhaps mean that more schools in your area prefer the ACT? Around here it's SAT.

I suggest you check -- or, better yet, have him check -- the websites of a few schools that interest him. If he's going to take the SAT, he needs to do it ASAP. He'll be filling out applications in the fall, and the scores'll take a little time to get back.

Not sure, but when I asked her last year if he should take it she said no that it was only for people looking to get scholarship money. She is one of the worst counselors I've ever dealt with.

 

[golfgal]

Not sure, but when I asked her last year if he should take it she said no that it was only for people looking to get scholarship money. She is one of the worst counselors I've ever dealt with.

She was probably talking about the PSAT and the National Merit money. I agree, she is horrible. I don't know of a school that doesn't want at least the ACT or SAT. Yes, there are scholarships based on your ACT or SAT scores so it is important to score high on those for that too.

 

[budmonster]

It's so hard to get applications in motion when the student is still indecisive about what he wants to major in! I think that we'll get a few things rolling in the next few weeks though.

I know what you mean, DS is dead set on going into construction (seriously in this economy) and I keep saying keep an open mind and don't be so dead set on one major. So unless he picks a back up it only schools with construction programs.

 

[MrsPete]

Applications take money.

Yeah, in theory that should be a secondary concern . . . but in reality, it's important! It's just one more reason why a senior should narrow his focus to a couple schools rathre than use the "shotgun approach" and send applications everywhere!

If money is a serious concern (not just a matter of "I don't want to spend it"), you can see your guidance counselor for a free application voucher. They don't have an unlimited number of these, so I wouldn't expect to be able to apply to more than 1-2 schools without charge. Also, we have a free application week (is it October? November?) when many schools allow students to send in applications for free, though it's a little bit late in the year, and I personally would go ahead and pay for the earliest deadlines.

What are the chances of her making a real living out of dance? I know she loves dance but does she have what it takes do make a living at it. If yes, find a dance major if maybe, find a school where she can still take dance but get a degree in something that will allow her to be employed when she graduates and she can dance on the side.

I was thinking the same thing. Dance is a long shot career.

Long story short, she LOVED Augustana and ended up hating U of I. The atmosphere at a small school was so much more welcoming. The people were really nice, the campus was beautiful, and she just had a good feeling about it. When we visited U of I it was cold, impersonal, and she didn't like the fact that she would never really know her teachers, and would probably have 300 kids in some of her classes. Some people thrive at big schools, but she was smart enough to realize she wasn't one of them.

Yeah, I've heard LOADS of similar stories from my students! Sometimes it's the other way around: I was sure I wanted to go to a small school, until I visited ____. Or, I was set on ____, where my whole family has gone, but I hated it and only stayed a semester. Or, I wanted to go out of state to get far-far from home, but then I couldn't even afford to come home for Thanksgiving, so I transferred after freshman year. I've heard loads of variations, and the theme is usually that the student didn't really know what he wanted. Seniors aren't experienced with making decisions like this, and they often base them on superficial items like where the high school boyfriend's going, the size of the dorm rooms, the proximity to skiing or the beach. Often they make these assumptions based upon this or that little detail they've heard somewhere. They need guidance.

My oldest wants to go to a large school, and she has the right personality for it. She's very self-motivated and confident, and she wants the wider variety of options that'll be available at a large school. My youngest would be overwhelmed at a large school; she'll end up at a small or medium-sized school.

One more thing to consider: If you expect that your child'll be doing a professional internship of any type during college, try to think ahead for those plans when you're choosing a college. For example, my oldest is going into nursing. When we visit colleges, I want to check out the hospitals at which she'd be doing student nursing -- the distance, etc. Ditto for student teaching; consider where the college places student teachers. My engineer husband works in for a research company near a large university, and they regularly hire interns from the college (they work a semester /go to school a semester, which prolongs graduation but gives them a decent paycheck for 1/2 the school year and real work experience); so an engineering student would do well to choose a college in an industry-filled city rather than somewhere remote.

Not sure, but when I asked her last year if he should take it she said no that it was only for people looking to get scholarship money. She is one of the worst counselors I've ever dealt with.

Unless things are very different in your area, I think this is horrible advice.

I know what you mean, DS is dead set on going into construction (seriously in this economy) and I keep saying keep an open mind and don't be so dead set on one major. So unless he picks a back up it only schools with construction programs.

Yeah, this is a good example of why kids need guidance. The pervasive "you can be anything you want to be" and the quite-often-a-lie "do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life" is sunk deeply into their brains. Many students have the idea that if they're the best (and they ALL think they're the best), they'll be employable in THE JOB. Most of my students are completely convinced that they and their friends will outperform our generation in the work force. They think that they're smarter, more technical, better at multi-tasking . . . and they think these traits will skyrocket them straight to the top. While you and I know plenty of adults who are searching fruitlessly for work, our teenagers have an idea that these people must not be trying, or they must not be all that well qualified. They lack the worldly experience to know any better.

Here's an example: My niece (a junior, like my own daughter) wants to major in music with the goal of being a high school band director. Living near a major university, we get LOTS of student teachers, and we almost always have a student teacher in band. Kids LOVE that program, but our band director has been here since the school opened. I don't think a single one of his student teachers has been hired to teach band. Anywhere. The jobs just don't exist. Think about it realistically: How many high school English teachers are in this county? I'd guess around 200. Ditto for science and history. We can never get enough math and world language teachers. Same for special ed. But how many band directors are in this county? Between all the high schools AND the middle schools, I think it's EIGHT. So someone has to retire or die . . . AND you have to be better than all those other people who are qualified to be a high school band director. I understand wanting the job, but the vast majority of the people who want that job are going to be disappointed. My SIL has asked me to try to convince her to double major in something practical AND music, the idea being that she could support herself WHILE hoping for that dream job to come along.

I could tell a similar story about my daughter, who wants to be a comic book artist but has only mediocre talent and no cut-throat personality appropriate for the business end of editing/publishing. I'm trying to help her see the difference between a hobby and a career. Also, I'm trying to get her to see that her choices aren't no-art-ever OR work-as-an-artist. I don't want her to end up like a friend of mine, for whom NOTHING BUT a degree in fashion design would do -- she was going to work in New York drawing sketches, putting together fashion shows -- and in the 15 years since she graduated, she's given up on ever finding a use for that degree. She works in insurance. I think it used to bother her, but now she's drawn a big line between her job and her personal life, and she has quite worrying over it.

 

[missypie]

You've got to go to collegeconfidential.com. Folks over there are great. There is a Class of '11 thread.

My D will be a senior.

She's taken her yearbook picture but will wait until it's cooler to do her "real" senior pictures.

She's taken the ACT twice and has scores she can live with.

We've visited 11 schools and she's decided to apply to only two. (Her #2 is a financial and academic safety that she loves, so it's a good plan.) We've had her ACT scores sent to the two schools. She's applied to one of them already but the other school's application won't go live until later.

She's had her class ring since sophomore year.

Find out if your school's yearbook has "senior ads" and decide if you want to buy one. If so, start getting pictures together.

Good luck!

 

[missypie]

With respect to Dance, Oklahoma City University has a Dance Management major. It's a cool little school that gives a lot of merit aid.

 

[minkydog]

Just make sure she understands that her GPA and ACT scores are really working against her. If she can get her ACT score up to 24, she will have no issues getting into most state schools.

[

I agree about the ACT. THis was her 2nd time taking it and she brought it up significantly as compared to the first time. I know what you're thinking. She's not dumb. But she has terrible test anxiety and when faced with multiple choice questions she can make a case for ever answer. I'm going to encourage her to try one more time to get her score over the top, at least 22

This isn't a time to protect her feelings. VISIT the "realistic schools" that interest her, and if she isn't admitted, then it's a life lesson. Having said that, with a 2.67 GPA I wouldn't take her to schools where you know she blatantly won't be accepted (if you were in NC, I'd say don't take her to Duke or Carolina, but that may not mean much to you).

, I suspect he's' going to do a year at community college and then transfer -- and while that's a fine choice, for this boy it may be a default rather than a choice.

Well, fortunately, she's not interested in schools like UGA, Duke or Carolina. And honestly, it wouldn't be such a bad thing is she went to community college. THat's not the worst thing that could ever happen to a kid.

What are the chances of her making a real living out of dance? I know she loves dance but does she have what it takes do make a living at it. If yes, find a dance major if maybe, find a school where she can still take dance but get a degree in something that will allow her to be employed when she graduates and she can dance on the side.

I was thinking the same thing. Dance is a long shot career.

Interesting perspective. I brought this same question to the boards a few months ago and was roundly castigated for that opinion. I had people coming out of the wood work to tell me about their successful careers in theater and dance. There is no winning on the DIS.

With respect to Dance, Oklahoma City University has a Dance Management major. It's a cool little school that gives a lot of merit aid.

Thanks, I'll have her look at this.

 

[Planogirl]

I read the boards at college confidential... a lot of Texans are griping about the state mandated admission for the top students from each school. Is this affecting your child's school choice? What schools is your child considering? I did my first 2 years at Stephen F. Austin and liked the school but it was tough being in a town with so few opportunities.

We're not even going to consider the really popular schools in Texas! There are perfectly good schools that aren't quite as popular and traditional that we'll be looking into in the next few weeks. DS will likely start out a our local community college since it's quite good and it will save some money.

 

[Planogirl]

You've got to go to collegeconfidential.com. Folks over there are great. There is a Class of '11 thread.

My D will be a senior.

She's taken her yearbook picture but will wait until it's cooler to do her "real" senior pictures.

She's taken the ACT twice and has scores she can live with.

We've visited 11 schools and she's decided to apply to only two. (Her #2 is a financial and academic safety that she loves, so it's a good plan.) We've had her ACT scores sent to the two schools. She's applied to one of them already but the other school's application won't go live until later.

She's had her class ring since sophomore year.

Find out if your school's yearbook has "senior ads" and decide if you want to buy one. If so, start getting pictures together.

Good luck!

What is the benefit of senior ads? I've wondered about those.

DS is the type to like or not like every school. He's nervous and I'm trying to assure him that nothing is locked in stone while urging him to find something he loves. True that that won't make him a living necessarily but if he can find something he loves and segway it into something useful so much the better.

 

[MrsPete]

Well, fortunately, she's not interested in schools like UGA, Duke or Carolina. And honestly, it wouldn't be such a bad thing is she went to community college. THat's not the worst thing that could ever happen to a kid.

For the right kid, community college can be a great start, but the kid about whom I was speaking is probably going to end up in community college ACCIDENTALLY. He graduated last month and didn't visit the college he'd committed to attend. He didn't realize he disliked it so strongly until he went to summer orientation. At this point, he doesn't have the options that he had earlier. I don't want my kids to find themselves forced into a second-choice situation. Whatever they do, I want them to have had time and opportunity to weigh the facts and make good decisions.

Interesting perspective. I brought this same question to the boards a few months ago and was roundly castigated for that opinion. I had people coming out of the wood work to tell me about their successful careers in theater and dance. There is no winning on the DIS.

Yeah, sometimes people on these boards defend the value of any degree, be it art history or medieval poetry or philosophy. It's easy to say to someone else's child, "Any degree has value", but when YOU are the one paying for it and when YOUR CHILD is going to depend upon that degree to get a job . . . well, a degree in Anthropology doesn't sound all that profitable (though I think it'd be a great deal of fun to earn). A degree in business, nursing, or engineering sounds much more promising. High school counselors and college professors aren't going to steer students towards degrees that'll actually be helpful in seeking gainful employment, so that leaves it up to us parents. So investigate it. How many people in your area earn their living through dance?

I wish someone had flat-out told me that after completing my first college degree I was going to only slightly, slightly more employable than I was the day I received my high school diploma.

 

[johnsontrio]

Bumping this to see if anyone is still reading this... I have an ACT Prep dilemma.. Anyone willing to comment if I write it all out?

Any interest in getting a Class of 2015 thread going? or Who has a college freshman Fall of 2011?

 

[missypie]

We could, but I'd strongly suggest that you join the Class of '11 thread on the Parents board of collegeconfidential/com.