Mold problem! Need legal advice fast!

[cinderella73]

We have been a renting a house here in Pennsylvania for 3 years now. No problems. When we moved in it was under duress though. We had to find a home literally in 1 week at the time . The landlord had not been able to rent the home ( although it was beautiful) because he wanted the tenants to wave their tenants rights. he said if he needed to evict someone he didnt want to have to go through all the paperwork so that why he does that. he also didnt want any pets at all. So ok... We were NOt thrilled but we had no pets and we needed a home fast. Well we have been good tenants and paid on time the last 3 1/2 years.

Well a week ago we discovered we had a mold problem in the basement. The problem is the basement is open to the rest of the house. When you go up the stiars there is a open doorway that leads to the living room . Also there are two cutouts that vent the basement directly into the kitchen and the living room. The house has a musty smell to it. The celing in the basement has a black fuzzy mold about the width of 2 dollar bills and lenth of 3 . Not overly large but there are mold spores growing on the furniture I had stored down there and I had to throw out all my books .

We are not seeking any damages. We just want out. We only just contacted the landlord and he has not been out yet. I am afraid he will try to fix it by either just cutting out the drywall or ripping up the carpet and stuff himself. Which will only make everything even more airborn. KNowing the man I do not think he will pay thousands to have someone come out and I do not want to wait a long time to have it fixed. At the same time I know I should give him a reasonable amount of time to fix it.

Here is the other problem though. It is really really hard to find a rental home around here. We found one and they will hold it for us for the week. After that they want payment or we could lose it. If we give the landlord time or go on a promise we might be stuck! Thats if he even offers to have proffesionals come in at all. Which knowing how cheap he is I doubt.

I am stressed. The new house is more than we are paying now but we have no other options. I am nervous about legal action being taken against us for breaking a lease. I called him tonight and took pictures and video of the downstairs plus I took my kids to the doctor and the doctor said they shouldnt be in the mold either. My husband had lab tests a couple years ago that showed a high allergy to mold as well.

Its the holidays and only a week till the new rent is due. If he tries to come after me I am worried it could be a mess . Can I get out of this legally and fast? The department of health is backlogged so that wont help fast enough.

He does have this written in our lease but I dont understand it. Also the true question is who determines what " exactly" is uninhabitable. I have no doubt he will say its fine! The lease states:

LIMITATION OF WARRANTY OF HABITABILITY
Any remedy for a alleged breach of warranty of habitablity , as may be construed under case law , shall be limited to a offset against rent.

Also

ACCELERATION OF RENT PAYMENTS UPON BREACH
Upon the failure to pay rent OR breach of any covenant in this lease agreement , the WHOLE balance of the rent and other charges , payments , costs and other related expenses herin agreed to be paid by lessee during the term of the lease , may be taken at the Lessors option to be due and payable in arrears , as if by the terms and provisions of this lease , said balance of rent and charges , patment , taxes, costs and expenses were on that date , payable in advance . This means we can demand all monies you would have to pay over the remainder of the lease term and require such sums to be paid immediatly.

I know this means they would want all rent still owed up till the month our lease would end. But would the mold be a legal ground for dissimissal of this lease?

Any advice or help GREATLY appreciated!

 

[cinderella73]

I wanted to add that when we moved in we noticed a musty smell in the basement. But it was contained to the basement and not upstairs . We also saw no visible signs of mold at the time. We decided to not use the basement for anything but storage . The landlord provided us with a dehumidifer and we have been using it since then and dumping it daily when we go downstairs to turn on the water heater timer.

So no , we did nothing to cause mold to grow. The dehumidifier is fully operational and I do not know what else I can do.

Someone mentioned going to a judge to aks about voiding the lease. How do you go about that?

 

[RadioNate]

If you've been there 3.5 years when does your lease expire? Every lease I've had has been for a year and then continues for a month-to-month basis. What are the terms to leave? 30 days notice? Early termination fees?

All this is usually in the lease contract.

 

[cinderella73]

If you've been there 3.5 years when does your lease expire? Every lease I've had has been for a year and then continues for a month-to-month basis. What are the terms to leave? 30 days notice? Early termination fees?

All this is usually in the lease contract.

The lease expires in July. The terms are I would owe all the rent still that I would if I continued living here but that he would want it all at once and immediatly. Which is of course completly unreasonable. My fault of course for signing but we learned our lesson now! We wouldnt be leaving if it was not for the mold. But I am not sure if there is a legal way to get out of the lease with the mold being what it is. Dangerous for my family. I cant seem to find any clear laws concerning this.

 

[Lisa_M]

you need to contact an attorney. They may be able to help you.

 

[omghidanielle]

In the meantime, why don't you try cleaning it up to cut down the exposure. If you don't know what's causing it, you may just be able to clean it up once in a while.

We had a mold problem in our basement, also, and this stuff worked pretty great. The mold is gone, but we still run a HEPA air filter to cut down the smell. You might also want to consider a dehumidifier if you don't know what the cause is. They aren't cheap, but maybe you can bill the landlord? heh.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[OK!]

I would have to think (though I'm not an atty) that a black mold issue would be cause to terminate your lease. Black mold is a serious health risk, especially for kids. I myself am highly allergic to it and absolutely cannot live or work in any building that has any kind of mold situation.

Definitely contact an attorney ASAP.

 

[cinderella73]

In the meantime, why don't you try cleaning it up to cut down the exposure. If you don't know what's causing it, you may just be able to clean it up once in a while.

We had a mold problem in our basement, also, and this stuff worked pretty great. The mold is gone, but we still run a HEPA air filter to cut down the smell. You might also want to consider a dehumidifier if you don't know what the cause is. They aren't cheap, but maybe you can bill the landlord? heh.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Thank you for the link. We do have a dehumidifier and a air purifier running. Its not my good air purifier because I dont want to ruin that one down there. But its a clunky older model that has a bit of life left on the filter. I figured it might help a bit. It did but only moderatly. I would try to clean it but its not just the spot on the ceiling . It seems to be affecting anything touching the floor. Which makes me think moisture is coming up through the ground. The carpet is damp feeling . No way I could rip that up without sealing everything off . The spot on the ceiling I could try to clean though. But I thought it could be bad to disturb it. Has anyone else heard this?

 

[cinderella73]

I would have to think (though I'm not an atty) that a black mold issue would be cause to terminate your lease. Black mold is a serious health risk, especially for kids. I myself am highly allergic to it and absolutely cannot live or work in any building that has any kind of mold situation.

Definitely contact an attorney ASAP.

I did some research and the laws regarding habitablity are pretty basic and only provide a few examples.

I was going to have it tested myself but the kits which are only around 40 dollars still require you send the sample to a lab which requires a few weeks and also around another 200 dollars. I dont trust the landlord to test it and be honest. Plus I read since any mold is bad mold it should all be removed. So I have no idea what I am going to do. It appears that it can take a while to legally get out of this. And that has me so worried.

 

[clh2]

I think you need legal advice as well. Contact an attorney (I would go with one that specializes in real estate, but that is me) tomorrow.

In my very non-legal opinion, how can the landlord convince you to waive your tenant rights??? My gut level reaction on this is -you probably have tenant rights, even though you "signed" them away. An attorney would probably be able to help you.

Good Luck with this. Mold is nothing to mess around with.

 

[kidzmom3]

not an expert so take this with a grain of salt. We used to rent out our grandparents house.

I don't believe you can legally break the lease at this point. First, you must notify the landlord of the problem. He has the right to come out and inspect. At this point if they agree their is a problem, they must correct in a timely manner (which is not usually immediately). If they don't agree there is a problem, you can report them to either your local health dept or building code dept (call city hall to find out which). If they find a problem during the inspection, the landlord will be given a requested repair notice. After receiving the notice, they usually have 14 days to comply. I believe that after all of these steps, if the city inspector feels the house is uninhabitable, then you can break the lease. Only they, can declare a home unfit for humans.

 

[cinderella73]

not an expert so take this with a grain of salt. We used to rent out our grandparents house.

I don't believe you can legally break the lease at this point. First, you must notify the landlord of the problem. He has the right to come out and inspect. At this point if they agree their is a problem, they must correct in a timely manner (which is not usually immediately). If they don't agree there is a problem, you can report them to either your local health dept or building code dept (call city hall to find out which). If they find a problem during the inspection, the landlord will be given a requested repair notice. After receiving the notice, they usually have 14 days to comply. I believe that after all of these steps, if the city inspector feels the house is uninhabitable, then you can break the lease. Only they, can declare a home unfit for humans.

I am afraid you are right. I have been resaerching since I posted. This means of course I may lose the home I found to rent and I will be subject to the landlord's determined course of action while living here. Which means if he rips up the carpet releasing mold spores everywhere we will get really sick.

I called and left a message for him to call me back. I am hoping to have him out here tomorrow. We have been very good tenants but the wife is sooo horrible. I dread everything.

We may have to risk legal issues if he starts ripping things apart because I will not stay here with my kids and a open basement with those spores everywhere. I guess I can pray he goes against his usual nature and hires a professional.

 

[cinderella73]

You wont believe this I but I JUST found out the service dog we were on a waiting list for looks like it will be ready sooner now. The service dog is for my son and the landlord does not like animals ( even though he has several) . The dog was supposed to be available a month before our lease was up. Now I dont know what I will do. It almost seems like fate is against us here.

I will hopefully get to spill everything to him tomorrow and see what happens from there. If he agrees to have a proffessional come out and deal with the mold and allows the service dog into the home I am happy to stay. Otherwise I have a huge mess on my hands! I cant believe I have to drop 2 bombs on him now!

 

[CowboyCO]

We have been a renting a house here in Pennsylvania for 3 years now. No problems. When we moved in it was under duress though. We had to find a home literally in 1 week at the time . The landlord had not been able to rent the home ( although it was beautiful) because he wanted the tenants to wave their tenants rights. he said if he needed to evict someone he didnt want to have to go through all the paperwork so that why he does that. he also didnt want any pets at all. So ok... We were NOt thrilled but we had no pets and we needed a home fast. Well we have been good tenants and paid on time the last 3 1/2 years.

Well a week ago we discovered we had a mold problem in the basement. The problem is the basement is open to the rest of the house. When you go up the stiars there is a open doorway that leads to the living room . Also there are two cutouts that vent the basement directly into the kitchen and the living room. The house has a musty smell to it. The celing in the basement has a black fuzzy mold about the width of 2 dollar bills and lenth of 3 . Not overly large but there are mold spores growing on the furniture I had stored down there and I had to throw out all my books .

We are not seeking any damages. We just want out. We only just contacted the landlord and he has not been out yet. I am afraid he will try to fix it by either just cutting out the drywall or ripping up the carpet and stuff himself. Which will only make everything even more airborn. KNowing the man I do not think he will pay thousands to have someone come out and I do not want to wait a long time to have it fixed. At the same time I know I should give him a reasonable amount of time to fix it.

Here is the other problem though. It is really really hard to find a rental home around here. We found one and they will hold it for us for the week. After that they want payment or we could lose it. If we give the landlord time or go on a promise we might be stuck! Thats if he even offers to have proffesionals come in at all. Which knowing how cheap he is I doubt.

I am stressed. The new house is more than we are paying now but we have no other options. I am nervous about legal action being taken against us for breaking a lease. I called him tonight and took pictures and video of the downstairs plus I took my kids to the doctor and the doctor said they shouldnt be in the mold either. My husband had lab tests a couple years ago that showed a high allergy to mold as well.

Its the holidays and only a week till the new rent is due. If he tries to come after me I am worried it could be a mess . Can I get out of this legally and fast? The department of health is backlogged so that wont help fast enough.

He does have this written in our lease but I dont understand it. Also the true question is who determines what " exactly" is uninhabitable. I have no doubt he will say its fine! The lease states:

LIMITATION OF WARRANTY OF HABITABILITY
Any remedy for a alleged breach of warranty of habitablity , as may be construed under case law , shall be limited to a offset against rent.

Also

ACCELERATION OF RENT PAYMENTS UPON BREACH
Upon the failure to pay rent OR breach of any covenant in this lease agreement , the WHOLE balance of the rent and other charges , payments , costs and other related expenses herin agreed to be paid by lessee during the term of the lease , may be taken at the Lessors option to be due and payable in arrears , as if by the terms and provisions of this lease , said balance of rent and charges , patment , taxes, costs and expenses were on that date , payable in advance . This means we can demand all monies you would have to pay over the remainder of the lease term and require such sums to be paid immediatly.

I know this means they would want all rent still owed up till the month our lease would end. But would the mold be a legal ground for dissimissal of this lease?

Any advice or help GREATLY appreciated!

You need to find out exactly what the mold situations is. If it is what could be considered a "toxic" mold situation, which would render the home uninhabitable. If this is the case, you need to check your state laws and look for information about "consturtive eviction". This is where the home you are renting is uninhabitable , so the landlord has "constructively evicted you by not provided a safe environment. You may be jumping the gun a little. If he has been a decent landlord for 3-1/2 years, may immediatey remedy the situation.

 

[cinderella73]

You need to find out exactly what the mold situations is. If it is what could be considered a "toxic" mold situation, which would render the home uninhabitable. If this is the case, you need to check your state laws and look for information about "consturtive eviction". This is where the home you are renting is uninhabitable , so the landlord has "constructively evicted you by not provided a safe environment. You may be jumping the gun a little. If he has been a decent landlord for 3-1/2 years, may immediatey remedy the situation.

Well I hope so. I will give him the benifit of the doubt. Hovever he has been saying for 2 years now he was going to come and fix certain things and has not so I guess I will have to wait and see.

I am curious though. Can the landlord insist on testing the mold himself? If he hires someone can I be legally privy to the "truthfull" results? I am afraid he would not fully disclose the results to me. Is there any way to tell what kind of mold it is myself without waiting weeks to send it in for expensive lab testing?

I do have some pics that I think I will post . Maybe some of you might be able to tell what it looks like or might possibly be.

I just did the research on our state laws with service dogs and it appears the landlord cannot deny us the ability to take the dog in or charge us extra. So that is a relief. But that does not mean he will be happy about it. We have kept up the home and property really nicely and paid rent on time so I am hoping he will come without his wife and be nice about everything.

I am going to upload some pictures now and see what you guys think. I know pictures are not to accurate and I still need testing but I would feel better if maybe someone thought it wasnt black mold. Not that I guess it matters since all mold is bad when you have a kid with asthma and a husband that is mold allergic. But I supposed the black kind is even worse? I am not even going to google it. I would just work myself up with worry and maybe for nothing.

 

[Wishing on a star]

1. Do NOT go down there and attempt to clean up a potentially toxic situation!

2. Call a professional who is experienced in this type of situation for an initial inspection. Take photos of the mold. Document all of this.

3. I simply would not want to rent from a landlord with this person's policies and attitudes... (he can give you the boot with NO notice... but you have to cough up as much as a years rent... ) Seriously, I would just MOVE... I would not have continued to sign the contract that you did, after that first year, which was obviously under extenuating circumstances.

4. States and even some local jurisdictions have laws and policies that are in place to protect both landlords and renters.... If the contract you signed is in any violation of State or Local policy, then it would never hold up in court. And, somehow, I wonder if it is legal to require a renter to pay for up to 12 months of rent... And, 'waivers of your rights' rarely hold up in court either.

The title of your thread says 'need legal advice'...
And, you will need to get that from a lawyer in your area...
We can try to give you our thoughts, but not valid legal advice.

 

[CowboyCO]

I do have one question. Have you signed a new lease every year? Or, are you operating under thenets of the original lease? The reason is that most states laws protect renters in that if the old lease expired, the landlord is expected to comply with the terms of the lease even if expired, but you are not bound by it if it has expired.

 

[cinderella73]

Ok I am now posting pictures of the basement . But to explain better the downstairs was kind of 70's and musty when we moved in. The upstairs was all renovated and nice. We only used the downstairs for storage because it was ugly and musty . But we did go down every day to dump the dehumidifier because of the timer on the water heater we never forgot. It was part of our routine. It does not have basement windows that open so it does have bad air circulation. It does open up the upstairs and there is no door at the top of the stiars and there are window cutouts on the walls that surround the stairs. I will try to show you better in the pictures. Basically unless I seal the room off with plastic sheeting and ducttape I cannot prevent the smell and spores from circulating up here. And that would be hard to do even with the set up. And I should mention that it stinks down there! When we went down we took everything out we could get up the stairs and threw it out. We made sure to wear masks. But we took pictures and made sure to leave some stuff for the landlord to see like the dressers.


Here is the one spot on the ceiling

This is the insode of my daughters armoire we were storing down there . Cant tell if the mold is green or grey.

This is the base of one of my dressers. This was in a seperate room in the basement from where the first pic was taken with the mold on the ceiling. In this room anything near or touching the floor had spores all over it. This room had a door so I am thinking for it to get up onto stuff it had to be airborne right? Does this mean spores are floating all over in the air? We have both black and a grey mold... Might we have 2 kinds of mold ?

 

[terri01p]

Mold can cause serious health problems even death, no matter what I would be getting my children out of there!
If I stayed there I would have the landlord sign " my" contract that states any mold related health problems that arise will be covered by him or he can release you from your lease one or the other and keep a close eye on your children daily. That type of thing is scarey.

 

[cinderella73]

1. Do NOT go down there and attempt to clean up a potentially toxic situation!

2. Call a professional who is experienced in this type of situation for an initial inspection. Take photos of the mold. Document all of this.

3. I simply would not want to rent from a landlord with this person's policies and attitudes... (he can give you the boot with NO notice... but you have to cough up as much as a years rent... ) Seriously, I would just MOVE... I would not have continued to sign the contract that you did, after that first year, which was obviously under extenuating circumstances.

4. States and even some local jurisdictions have laws and policies that are in place to protect both landlords and renters.... If the contract you signed is in any violation of State or Local policy, then it would never hold up in court. And, somehow, I wonder if it is legal to require a renter to pay for up to 12 months of rent... And, 'waivers of your rights' rarely hold up in court either.

The title of your thread says 'need legal advice'...
And, you will need to get that from a lawyer in your area...
We can try to give you our thoughts, but not valid legal advice.

Thank you. I agree and honestly it makes my lungs hurt just smelling the stuff.

Good advice. I am documenting everything with video and pictures. Plus I did take my kids to the doctor and let him know of the situation. They have bad allergies and I asked him if this could be making it worse and he said we should move. But of course I have to follow all the protocol first apparently. Which stinks because the sooner we get out the better!

We were stupid to sign in the first place but we had a week to find a home and our daughter was in the hospital getting transfusions from having what was at the time a severe hypothyroidism that we didnt know about. What makes us stupid is that we stayed and re-signed the lease again just figuring it would be to expensive to move and we wanted to avoid any conflict or have him kick us out because we wouldnt sign again. My husband is back in school and its hard to find places to rent here so we really wanted to stay put for now. Big mistake. I will neverbe that stupid about what I sign again.

I wonder if the lease is legal as well. I keep trying to pull something up but cant find anything about it. I know I will need a attorney but I had to pay 3,000 on the service dog this month! We are so tapped out.

Does anyone know how much a attorney runs?