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[chiefmickeymouse]

It seems to me you have several big issues here that are snarled together:

1. Divorce, you want one. You feel guilty about leaving him, but you want one.

Your husband is mentally capable of helping himself, if not physically. He chooses not to. He takes his depression and other problems out on you. His family lives nearby but doesn't help. Got it. He's not going to change so your options are, stay there and let him slowly kill you or get a divorce.

2. Money, your only source of income is his disability.

I would start thinking about your financial situations as separate, because if you follow through on the divorce, you will not be getting the disability check. This shouldn't stop you from getting the divorce, you'll have to find a way to take care of yourself.

If you want the divorce, file the papers. Call his family and tell him you are leaving, pack a bag and go to a relatives. While you are gone, they will have to figure out some means of dealing with him, he will have to be hospitalized, or something will have to happen. If you stay there it's just too easy to maintain the status quo which is making his family happy, he seems fine with, but is making you miserable.

I know this seems like an oversimplification of your situation, but if you let too many emotions and other peoples' opinions be a part of your thought process, you will be stuck where you are forever.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Honestly, I don't know which it is. I just know it is called "Social Security" disability. We got a letter saying it had been approved, they had deposited the money in his bank account and would continue to do so I am thinking on around the 2nd Wednesday of every month and eventually there would be a cost of living increase. Only a couple days before receiving the SS letter, we went to the bank and got the financial statements to apply for housing and his bank account reflected a HUGE amount and I was like "what in the world"? That is why, it was because he had just received back pay from SS for almost a year.

You would have had to specifically apply for the supplemental income (SSI), so it appears his income is considered SSDI.

 

[Frozen72]

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[barkley]

You would have had to specifically apply for the supplemental income (SSI), so it appears his income is considered SSDI.

in recent years it's now kind of a double application process. ss admin looks at both programs w/the application. 9 times out of 10 ssi is ruled out b/c of income/assets or b/c the applicant has enough quarters such that IF they ultimately get approved for disability they would qualify for the more preferable ($$$/Medicare eligibility) ssdi program. these days when you file you usualy get the denial letter (for the reasons above) for ssi long before ss admin even starts looking at the issue of if you qualify under their criteria for disability (which more often than not people don't so they end up having to pay a lawyer-BUT OP, reread those legal accountings, lawyers CAN'T take 1/3 of retro social security disability income, they are legally capped at 25% but only up to a MAXIMUM TOTAL FEE OF $6000 unless social security administration has approved a petition-VERY RARE-for a higher fee).

op-if you are confused as to what type of social security your husband has FIND OUT. it makes a big difference when looking at your/his options.

1. does he have (or is in the waiting period for) MEDICARE? if yes-he has ssDi
2. does he have MEDICAID? if yes-you are dealing with 2 entirely different 'animals' as far as eligibility, rules, regulations, law and administration.

MEDICARE-administered by the federal government, usually no issue with income and assets
MEDICAID-administered by the state (and in some places individual counties), has very specific income/asset rules

a person can have BOTH-BUT this is where it takes a skilled person IN YOUR STATE who knows all the specifics about both programs; I'm an odd duck who only knows about MEDICARE b/c of household members who receive it, and MEDICAID but only in another state b/c at one time I administered it (but honest to god, even over the course of a year or two between retirement and then trying to help a family member with it in that same state-the rules had changed so much it was crazy, but then even administering it the rules could change on an daily basis).

I still think your best first step is to seek your own medical evaluation.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

in recent years it's now kind of a double application process. ss admin looks at both programs w/the application. 9 times out of 10 ssi is ruled out b/c of income/assets or b/c the applicant has enough quarters such that IF they ultimately get approved for disability they would qualify for the more preferable ($$$/Medicare eligibility) ssdi program. these days when you file you usualy get the denial letter (for the reasons above) for ssi long before ss admin even starts looking at the issue of if you qualify under their criteria for disability (which more often than not people don't so they end up having to pay a lawyer-BUT OP, reread those legal accountings, lawyers CAN'T take 1/3 of retro social security disability income, they are legally capped at 25% but only up to a MAXIMUM TOTAL FEE OF $6000 unless social security administration has approved a petition-VERY RARE-for a higher fee).

op-if you are confused as to what type of social security your husband has FIND OUT. it makes a big difference when looking at your/his options.

1. does he have (or is in the waiting period for) MEDICARE? if yes-he has ssDi
2. does he have MEDICAID? if yes-you are dealing with 2 entirely different 'animals' as far as eligibility, rules, regulations, law and administration.

MEDICARE-administered by the federal government, usually no issue with income and assets
MEDICAID-administered by the state (and in some places individual counties), has very specific income/asset rules

a person can have BOTH-BUT this is where it takes a skilled person IN YOUR STATE who knows all the specifics about both programs; I'm an odd duck who only knows about MEDICARE b/c of household members who receive it, and MEDICAID but only in another state b/c at one time I administered it (but honest to god, even over the course of a year or two between retirement and then trying to help a family member with it in that same state-the rules had changed so much it was crazy, but then even administering it the rules could change on an daily basis).

I still think your best first step is to seek your own medical evaluation.

It's good in my opinion that both programs are considered at once now. The number of people who qualified for SSI but don't receive it because they don't even know to apply used to bother me a great deal.

 

[Frozen72]

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[ariel71]

No, SSI income and SSDI income are very different animals and both are not addressed in your links. Medicare, which people on disability get after a period, and Medicaid, mostly income based, are also very different animals as well. I understand what you are putting forward, but I don't agree that it applies based on the information we have.

I was responding more to the comment that implied (and maybe I misinterpreted) that federal sources of income weren't allowed to be included in the calculation of resources available to the spouses of institutionalized Medicaid recipients. I can't find any indication that either SSI disability or SSDI are excluded. That said, either or both could make OP's husband ineligible for Medicaid anyway, but I just wanted to point out that the attorney wasn't necessarily off his rocker to bring it up (assuming he had adequate and accurate info).

But in any case, given that OP's DH seems the type to contest a divorce given what's been written about him, it's extremely important that she retain an attorney who is well versed in the intersection of both elder care/medicaid/medicare and family law in her state before she proceeds with anything.

 

[barkley]

It's good in my opinion that both programs are considered at once now. The number of people who qualified for SSI but don't receive it because they don't even know to apply used to bother me a great deal.

one of the FEW positive things I will say about the government social services agency I worked for was that they had program in place where anyone could get help with the entire ssi application process. they were assigned staff that knew exactly how to help them file, and what kind of documentation they needed in place to even get the application considered by social security-they would help walk people through it including the appeal process. I ended up in the unit I supervised with the cases of people who were lucky enough to be getting the very limited medical coverage that county provided adults w/o dependents (no aca back then) while their ssi applications were pending and it ticked me off to read denial after denial from social security admin based on strictly petty non disability based reasons (simple typos or honest omissions of an address for a doctor or transposed dates written on forms). professionally we used to joke that we thought social security's attitude was that if you could, by yourself figure out and manage to apply for ssi and jump through all their hoops of filling out reports and getting documentation...... then they viewed it as concrete proof that you were in no way disabled from being able to do some form of employment so it was an automatic initial denial

 

[LinderInWonderland]

If he got back pay, it's absolutely SSDI. For people who were on SSI prior to becoming eligible for SSDI, the 'lump sum back pay' would pay back the state for SSI funds before being distributed to the individual, which sounds like what happened here with the disability over-lap. People who get SSI and SSDI are usually people with few to no work quarters and their SSDI is less than the standard SSI payment.

 

[Pamlur]

OP, my husband was truly addicted to food; he loved it. We didn't meet until we were in our mid 30s so I don't really know what his childhood was like other than his mother was a cruel narcissist. He was also, obviously, morbidly obese. I didn't do or say anything about his weight until he became diabetic (strictly because of pancreas overload), then I started some mild nagging. He would go on some fad diet or discover a new pill, lose a ton of weight, get off the insulin, and start all over again.

When he started losing his vision and his kidney function, I became a food nazi; I lived by the potassium charts. We fought bitterly, we yelled and screamed, but he stayed off dialysis and kept all his limbs. He tried the helpless bit, but I was harder headed than he was; he called me names and I cried, then we'd start a new round. BUT, I knew he loved me, and I loved him, and he was still working so we didn't have financial issues.

He had weight loss surgery and lost all desire for food; he had major problems getting enough protein to keep going. I don't know how that would have gone, I have friends who have had the surgery and gained all the weight back, but he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away a couple of years after he had the surgery.

All to say, I do know how hard it is to stand up to the verbal abuse, but at NO TIME would I have done a hamburger drive-through or a Dairy Queen or a stromboli run! I can't wrap my head around why you did that, leaving the room would also have removed you from the verbal abuse and you say he can't follow you while he screams at you. Have you answered the question of whether or not you have a relative that you could stay with for a few days? If he had to sit in his own body wastes for a couple of days, he just might find the motivation to clean himself up. If not, it makes a good case for asking for a welfare check. You are not his mommy. You have to decide which of you is going to die first.

You can't have life like it used to be. I have learned how to live in "my new reality", just like everybody, including you, has to do when the time comes.

 

[barkley]

If he got back pay, it's absolutely SSDI. For people who were on SSI prior to becoming eligible for SSDI, the 'lump sum back pay' would pay back the state for SSI funds before being distributed to the individual, which sounds like what happened here with the disability over-lap. People who get SSI and SSDI are usually people with few to no work quarters and their SSDI is less than the standard SSI payment.

sorry-not correct.

ssdi requires work quarters. ssi does not. ssdi pays SUBSTANTIALY more than ssi (ssi max for single person around $700 per month, a married couple both receiving about $1100 combined per month while ssdi can be well over $2000 per month for a single person with a married couple both receiving at over $5000 combined per month).

if a person applies for ssi the first thing ss administration does is look to see if they have work quarters (or a link to someone else's-VERY RARE but I personally know of cases where this is used to the disabled person's benefit). if they have the necessary work quarters then it's a no brainer to go for ssdi because it comes with the preferable Medicare coverage (after the wait period) and the much higher monthly benefit, neither of which have asset rules that can create ineligibility if your non exempt assets go over a certain dollar amount.


also-ssi applicants can get 'back pay'. saw it all the time-person files an application and after every level of denial they APPEAL which protects that initial application date (called-beginning date of aid).................3 years later an ALJ finally approves the original application so the person gets 3 years of retroactive benefits (and a letter from ss admin on how long they have to spend it down or shelter it to prevent it from making them asset ineligible to their now continuing ssi benefit).

not trying to be contradictory-I'm just sorry to say that I'm far too intimately experienced with and knowledgeable about these programs.

 

[Frozen72]

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[Pamlur]

Thank you for your sweet words, but you really need to concentrate on YOU. I only told you my story to indicate that I know what you are going through, to some extent and that I can empathize with how "beaten down" you feel. Trust me, as long as you enable him, it won't get any better.

But you keep making excuses. If your cat did fine when you "left" for a week, she will do fine when you leave again. Your cat is far less important at this moment than you are; how will she feel if you become drastically ill and can't take care of her at all?? Just stop and think, no more excuses. Everybody here is giving you good advice but they will stop and will get impatient very soon. Stop making excuses. Has that soaked in yet? As long as you tell yourself that you "have to" do everything for him, the days will pass and you will still be where you are but worse off and that many more days older.

Do something. Tomorrow is a holiday, so you have a day to plan what you will do the rest of the week. If you can get a doctor appointment for yourself, let your husband call a cab for his own appointment or stay home. Grow a thicker skin. Walk away from the verbal abuse.

 

[StitchBuddy]

Wow, as painful as it has been, I've read through this whole thread. Many people have given you very sound advice. I am a teacher too. I don't know where you live or what you taught, but in Texas the need for teachers is growing again. I would go back to work, even if it is substituting until you can prove yourself. You need to start rebuilding your life. If they say he is able to move himself around, then leave him during the day and let him be responible for himself. Again, I don't know what services there are in your area, but you can usually hire a van to pick you up and take you to the doctor if you have medical needs. Start making him responsible for going to the doctor etc... Sounds like you have become his mother not his wife. Also, he is an adult, if he wants to eat himself to death, then that's his choice. It isn't your job to make him eat right. fix a healthy dinner for yourself, if he wants to eat it fine, if not he can get something delivered and he can answer the door and pay for it. If he gets angry leave him for a couple of days to sit and think about his actions, put the phone near him so he can contact his family to hlep him. If you want a different outcome, quit doing the same things over and over. I know it is easier said then done. Good luck!!

 

[AKpooh]

there is a couple here that this happened to but it didn't turn out like your life. he took responsibility and went to rehab and is now living a wonderful life. I hate to be blunt but divorce him and move on. screw whatever his family says and get your life back. get into therapy and live the life you were meant to live. he doesn't want to change nor do he want to listen to doctors. you deserve better.

 

[Disney Doll]

As I have told you OP, when he messes himself or falls down, call the ambulance and have him Taken to the hospital.

Tell these is not safe at home because he cannot care for himself and you cannot care for him either. Trust me, if you repeat, ad nauseum, that he is not safe at home due to
His inability to date for himself and your inability to care for him, the hospital will need to find other arrangements. The key word is SAFE.

And frankly, he is not safe because if he can't move very well and can't get to the bathroom to use it properly, then he is unable to care for himself and you are unable/unwilling to care for him, then he is not safe at home.

And OP, this will require you to say no. "No I cannot care for him if you send him home again. It is too difficult for me and I fear for my own health".

Then you work in separation/divorce. So what if it takes 2 years? Part of that is realizing that you will need to get a job. His income, from whatever sources it comes, will be used to pay toward his care. It's simple. If you don't want to be married to him badly enough, you'll figure out a way to make it work.

Your cat, your father, his family...blah, blah, blah...all excuses. You don't have to stay with him. If you are not there, someone will figure out care for him or he'll step up and care for himself. But it won't be your problem.

What your problem will be is supporting yourself and figuring out why you allowed your life to become this.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Have we even determined whether the husband WANTS to go to a nursing home?? Sort of difficult, even when and if he is unsafe (which rehab has deemed him not to be), to get him to go if that's not what he wants. The same principle applies as his going to Dairy Queen - if he's deemed competent to choose, then he gets to make that decision, not anyone else. Soiling one's self doesn't make one unsafe, necessarily. Couldn't get off the couch? While wife stands there, teary and wringing her hands? It's amazing how sometimes, when one like him is left to their own devices, how quickly they can turn it around. Stitch Buddy has the right idea.

[QUOTE="Disney Doll, post: 54376833, member: 18254]"Tell these is not safe at home because he cannot care for himself and you cannot care for him either. Trust me, if you repeat, ad nauseum, that he is not safe at home due to
His inability to date for himself and your inability to care for him, the hospital will need to find other arrangements.The key word is SAFE.[/QUOTE]
Not sure why it should be the hospital's responsibility.

 

[RitaE]

Have we even determined whether the husband WANTS to go to a nursing home?? Sort of difficult, even when and if he is unsafe (which rehab has deemed him not to be), to get him to go if that's not what he wants. The same principle applies as his going to Dairy Queen - if he's deemed competent to choose, then he gets to make that decision, not anyone else. Soiling one's self doesn't make one unsafe, necessarily. Couldn't get off the couch? While wife stands there, teary and wringing her hands? It's amazing how sometimes, when one like him is left to their own devices, how quickly they can turn it around. Stitch Buddy has the right idea.

You are really, really stuck on semantics here. Yes, everybody understands that the OP isn't going to personally put him in a nursing home. She likely isn't going drive him to a nursing home and tuck him into bed and then walk away. Everybody understands that a competent person has the right to refuse care, even if it is not in his best interest. However, if she calls an ambulance crew and tells them is in an unsafe situation they will try their hardest to convince him to go to the hospital. If they have any reason at all to believe he is not able to competently indicate he understands the consequences of refusing care, then they might decide to transport without explicit agreement and let the Hospital Medical staff determine things from there.

Once at the hospital, the medical staff will examine him, treat as they can, and then attempt to discharge him to a safe environment. The presence or absence of another able bodied agreeable person at the residence is an important factor. Discharging somebody accompanied by an able bodied spouse or other family member is quite different than sending somebody off home alone.

Once the hospital has him in their care, they do have a duty to assist with his discharge plan. He doesn't have to agree to his discharge plan, but they will at a minimum present a plan and assist him in transitioning from the hospital care to whatever sort of care is decided in the discharge plan.

If it makes you feel better. Just change it to: Upon discharge it will be made clear to him of the personal danger of living on his own with no able bodied caregiver agreeing to provide assistance. This is why it is often suggested she not even accompany him to the hospital. Not only does it provide her with a natural drama free time to pack her suitcase and leave for her Dad's house, if she isn't at the hospital then she isn't there to indicate to the hospital staff that she will provide caregiver assistance as he leaves the hospital. Without her presence, he will likely be presented with other options which might or might not be along term care center, with the understanding that once he is fitted with a prothesis and gains more unassisted mobility, he likely could eventually live on his own. However, if he is resistant to the idea of returning to a nursing home, then they will likely patch together a plan that might include his other family members if they agree, visiting home health care, transportation to therapy and medical appointments, meal service, and whatever other social services might be available in their area that they feel are appropriate.

The hospital does these sorts of evaluations all the time but especially with his mental health diagnosis, it is possible that he will also be given a psychiatric evaluation at the hospital to evaluate his current competency.

But none of that is really important to the OP because people are just trying to assure her that there are safe and humane ways to back out of being his caregiver and move on with her own life. What happens to him after she turns his care over to either his family or the medical staff isn't what she needs to concentrate on once she has made the decision to separate.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

You are really, really stuck on semantics here. Yes, everybody understands that the OP isn't going to personally put him in a nursing home. She likely isn't going drive him to a nursing home and tuck him into bed and then walk away. Everybody understands that a competent person has the right to refuse care, even if it is not in his best interest. However, if she calls an ambulance crew and tells them is in an unsafe situation they will try their hardest to convince him to go to the hospital. If they have any reason at all to believe he is not able to competently indicate he understands the consequences of refusing care, then they might decide to transport without explicit agreement and let the Hospital Medical staff determine things from there.

Once at the hospital, the medical staff will examine him, treat as they can, and then attempt to discharge him to a safe environment. The presence or absence of another able bodied agreeable person at the residence is an important factor. Discharging somebody accompanied by an able bodied spouse or other family member is quite different than sending somebody off home alone.

Once the hospital has him in their care, they do have a duty to assist with his discharge plan. He doesn't have to agree to his discharge plan, but they will at a minimum present a plan and assist him in transitioning from the hospital care to whatever sort of care is decided in the discharge plan.

If it makes you feel better. Just change it to: Upon discharge it will be made clear to him of the personal danger of living on his own with no able bodied caregiver agreeing to provide assistance. This is why it is often suggested she not even accompany him to the hospital. Not only does it provide her with a natural drama free time to pack her suitcase and leave for her Dad's house, if she isn't at the hospital then she isn't there to indicate to the hospital staff that she will provide caregiver assistance as he leaves the hospital. Without her presence, he will likely be presented with other options which might or might not be along term care center, with the understanding that once he is fitted with a prothesis and gains more unassisted mobility, he likely could eventually live on his own. However, if he is resistant to the idea of returning to a nursing home, then they will likely patch together a plan that might include his other family members if they agree, visiting home health care, transportation to therapy and medical appointments, meal service, and whatever other social services might be available in their area that they feel are appropriate.

The hospital does these sorts of evaluations all the time but especially with his mental health diagnosis, it is possible that he will also be given a psychiatric evaluation at the hospital to evaluate his current competency.

But none of that is really important to the OP because people are just trying to assure her that there are safe and humane ways to back out of being his caregiver and move on with her own life. What happens to him after she turns his care over to either his family or the medical staff isn't what she needs to concentrate on once she has made the decision to separate.

Lol, I'm not stuck on anything. I have 30 years in as a hospital nurse and see these situations all the time.

 

[littleblackegg]

OP, my husband was truly addicted to food; he loved it. We didn't meet until we were in our mid 30s so I don't really know what his childhood was like other than his mother was a cruel narcissist. He was also, obviously, morbidly obese. I didn't do or say anything about his weight until he became diabetic (strictly because of pancreas overload), then I started some mild nagging. He would go on some fad diet or discover a new pill, lose a ton of weight, get off the insulin, and start all over again.

When he started losing his vision and his kidney function, I became a food nazi; I lived by the potassium charts. We fought bitterly, we yelled and screamed, but he stayed off dialysis and kept all his limbs. He tried the helpless bit, but I was harder headed than he was; he called me names and I cried, then we'd start a new round. BUT, I knew he loved me, and I loved him, and he was still working so we didn't have financial issues.

He had weight loss surgery and lost all desire for food; he had major problems getting enough protein to keep going. I don't know how that would have gone, I have friends who have had the surgery and gained all the weight back, but he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away a couple of years after he had the surgery.

All to say, I do know how hard it is to stand up to the verbal abuse, but at NO TIME would I have done a hamburger drive-through or a Dairy Queen or a stromboli run! I can't wrap my head around why you did that, leaving the room would also have removed you from the verbal abuse and you say he can't follow you while he screams at you. Have you answered the question of whether or not you have a relative that you could stay with for a few days? If he had to sit in his own body wastes for a couple of days, he just might find the motivation to clean himself up. If not, it makes a good case for asking for a welfare check. You are not his mommy. You have to decide which of you is going to die first.

You can't have life like it used to be. I have learned how to live in "my new reality", just like everybody, including you, has to do when the time comes.

My friend has a disabled son like this. When he throws food tantrums, he is instructed to go get it himself. He also has to prepare all his own meals. It is not easy, but she is not willing to care for him as if he has no skills. He is able to do it. He just wants someone else to do it.