Missouri may be banning steak and seafood from Food Stamp Program

[Colleen27]

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. If someone wants to eat beans & rice to splurge on seafood, or if someone is shopping the sell-by-date sales to get good prices on those things, that should be their choice. With a huge freezer I used to do that all the time - stock up on the "managers special" meats with close sell-by dates because of the steep discount, and use or freeze them immediately.

The more you micromanage, the less room you leave for creative thinking, menu planning, and common sense. WIC is actually a great example - it'll cover the $4 box of name-brand cereal but not the $2 store-brand knock-off because the store brand isn't on the approved list. Same with PB, cheese, juice, etc. (Major store brands like Kroger are approved, the off-brands carried by independent grocers usually aren't). But that's the good use of resources, paying retail for Kraft cheese and Kellogg cereal and Juicy Juice because the just as nutritious, much cheaper store brands aren't big enough to make the approval list.

Even the pre-made sushi isn't an issue for me. I've worked with women who were on food stamps and those are the kinds of things they bring for lunch in lieu of eating out. Sure, it would be cheaper if they stuck to PB&J but really, the intent of the program is to provide enough for a healthy, balanced diet not the cheapest possible options to keep from starving.

 

[SMD]

Many people who are on food stamps, due to the low income requirements, are not paying FEDERAL income tax which is what pays for food stamps. (I am not talking about a foster situation) Yes, they may be paying social security and medicare taxes on their income which pays for those future benefits. They also probably pay sales tax which goes to whatever their states use sales tax/gas tax revenues for. Very few are paying enough in federal taxes to offset their food stamp benefit, let alone all the other federal shared services we use. In addition, those that are chronically low wage earners and that have a family don't really pay that much in federal tax at all once they claim personal exemptions, standard deduction, child care credits, EIC etc.

Believe me, I agree that we need the programs and I also agree that we cannot police such minute details about the program. However, to say that those who are collecting the benefits are paying for them through taxes is not necessarily true.

Very few people pay social security and medicare tax to cover their future use of those benefits as well. We all benefit from programs like SNAP in roundabout ways. For example, WalMart employees receive billions of dollars in benefits from the federal government. If WalMart paid them more, shopping at WalMart would be more expensive for everyone else.

 

[Colleen27]

I wish the food stamp program was run like the WIC program - certain expensive items not allowed and a list of items that are allowed. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a welfare person's New Year's Eve lobster dinner, for example. And I wish they would put a cap on the program, like 2-3 years and then cut people off if they are able bodied to work and just don't. This doesn't include disabled people.

I've seen people use their food stamps for expensive items and then run out of stamps before the end of the month, so then they just go to the local food pantries - which taxpayers pay for also. And I've seen an individual given a ridiculously high food stamp allotment and they could never use it all every month so they took friends/relatives shopping and "filled their freezer" for them. Things like that just aren't right and should be curtailed.

Currently Michigan's roads are in dire need of repair, and they want to raise the sales tax from 6% to 7% in order to pay for the repairs. From the polls most people are against that, as am I. I think they should get the deadbeats off welfare and pay for the road repairs with all of THAT money.

Most people on food stamps do work, though. There are work requirements that apply to most recipients (except the elderly and those with young children), and the largest population receiving food stamps are the working poor.

About that ballot measure... Interestingly, detailed polling about the sales tax proposal in Michigan shows that people aren't against raising the sales tax (which is highly regressive - it hits the poor for a larger share of their income than the middle and upper classes). They're against the other elements of the proposal, with the restoration of the state earned income credit - something that was included to offset the hike in sales & gas taxes and car registration fees for the state's poor - being the least popular provision. That and the complexity of the plan, not the sales tax increase itself, are what is likely to sink the measure.

 

[Colleen27]

In some states, ALL food is taxed. It may be taxed modestly, but it is still taxed. So suggesting not having taxable items count as eligible won't work in some areas as all food would be ineligible.

And in others it is all untaxed. Michigan doesn't tax any grocery items, only hot/prepared (restaurant or take-out counter) foods. So even excluding soda would require new regulatory mechanisms which then increase the cost of compliance for merchants.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

And in others it is all untaxed. Michigan doesn't tax any grocery items, only hot/prepared (restaurant or take-out counter) foods. So even excluding soda would require new regulatory mechanisms which then increase the cost of compliance for merchants.

I work in a garden nursery in Missouri where everything is taxed and we have to TAX edibles (veggies/herbs/etc) as "grocery" which is higher than the ornamentals.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

I hate when people rant about what food can be bought!
Do they realize that fresh fruit and other healthy items are expensive! Starchy, processed foods are cheaper are easy to stretch.
Also - getting to stores is oftentimes a hardship for many living in poor neighborhoods relying on public transportation.

Totally agree with this. Where I live, the poor neighborhoods have a lot of little stores where the prices are two-three times at a regular grocery store. They all have large "We accept EBT" signs on them. It seems predatory.

 

[Colleen27]

Totally agree with this. Where I live, the poor neighborhoods have a lot of little stores where the prices are two-three times at a regular grocery store. They all have large "We accept EBT" signs on them. It seems predatory.

In a way it is, but it also has to do with the higher costs of doing business in high-crime areas - higher insurance premiums, greater risk of theft and robbery (and in the worst case, personal injury to an employee) - and the lack of the economies of scale that large grocers are able to leverage to offer better prices.

It is very expensive to be poor in this country. Car insurance, homeowners/renters insurance, groceries, other basic staples... they all cost more in poor inner-city neighborhoods than in suburbia. And the insurance companies employ credit scoring as well, making it even more expensive for those with financial difficulties.

 

[Kbee]

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do the monthly benefits roll over? If someone shops sales and only gets beans and makes soups for a month and has extra left over, its their's right? Its probably not very common to be able to have alot left over but lets say someone did because they wanted a steak dinner to celebrate a special event the next month. Why do we care? Its not like they get to go back and get more money, they get $X amount of dollars for FOOD, and since steak and seafood are food why should they not be allowed.

 

[Gracie09]

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do the monthly benefits roll over? If someone shops sales and only gets beans and makes soups for a month and has extra left over, its their's right? Its probably not very common to be able to have alot left over but lets say someone did because they wanted a steak dinner to celebrate a special event the next month. Why do we care? Its not like they get to go back and get more money, they get $X amount of dollars for FOOD, and since steak and seafood are food why should they not be allowed.

They do. For example if you have $50 and spend $10 the first week and then get hospitalized and spend nothing the rest of the month, next month your card will have $90 on it.

 

[Dawnlight]

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do the monthly benefits roll over? If someone shops sales and only gets beans and makes soups for a month and has extra left over, its their's right? Its probably not very common to be able to have alot left over but lets say someone did because they wanted a steak dinner to celebrate a special event the next month. Why do we care? Its not like they get to go back and get more money, they get $X amount of dollars for FOOD, and since steak and seafood are food why should they not be allowed.

In MA it rolls over; I can't speak to other states.

When we were on food assistance due to dh's job losses, we only qualified for an amount equal to less than 1/4 of our regular food budget. I was always flabbergasted to read of other families, much smaller than ours, getting hundreds of dollars more a month in assistance.

 

[Kbee]

In MA it rolls over; I can't speak to other states.

When we were on food assistance due to dh's job losses, we only qualified for an amount equal to less than 1/4 of our regular food budget. I was always flabbergasted to read of other families, much smaller than ours, getting hundreds of dollars more a month in assistance.

I know that the amount people get is pretty low, which is why I bet it isn't common to have left over to roll over.
I just think that its their money, the qualified for it, and whether they spend it frugaly or the opposite, shouldn't matter. Maybe instead of limiting what they can buy, the states offer classes on how to best manage the money they get. Instead of "punishing" them how about doing something productive to help families.

 

[bcla]

And in others it is all untaxed. Michigan doesn't tax any grocery items, only hot/prepared (restaurant or take-out counter) foods. So even excluding soda would require new regulatory mechanisms which then increase the cost of compliance for merchants.

California has taxed carbonated beverages as long as I can remember. However, that's a pretty easy thing to determine and isn't necessarily based on health concerns. Carbonated mineral water is taxed the same as sugary soda. About 25 years ago the legislature passed a "junk food tax" which turned into a disaster when it came to determining what was or wasn't taxable. It was repealed fairly quickly. I remember seeing lists at checkout counters, and the guidance to determine what was or wasn't taxable blew up to several pages.

 

[ReneeA]

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do the monthly benefits roll over? If someone shops sales and only gets beans and makes soups for a month and has extra left over, its their's right? Its probably not very common to be able to have alot left over but lets say someone did because they wanted a steak dinner to celebrate a special event the next month. Why do we care? Its not like they get to go back and get more money, they get $X amount of dollars for FOOD, and since steak and seafood are food why should they not be allowed.

My FIL was dating an 80 year old lady with food stamps in Michigan. He told me that if they didn't use it every month, that they reevaluated their need and decreased the monthly amount. They made sure to spend all $65 every month.

 

[Dawnlight]

Hey, look at all the things that will be banned in Kansas:

http://www.wlwt.com/money/kansas-wa...paign=News&Content Type=Story&linkId=13378362

Alcoholic beverages

Casinos

Gaming establishments

Jewelry stores

Tattoo parlors

Massage parlors

Body piercing parlors

Spas

Nail salons

Lingerie shops

Tobacco paraphernalia stores

Vapor cigarette stores

Psychic or fortune telling businesses

Bail bond companies

Video arcades

Movie theaters

Swimming pools

Cruise ships

Theme parks

Dog or horse racing facilities

Parimutuel facilities (off-track betting)

Cigarettes and tobacco products

Lottery tickets

Concert tickets

Tickets for professional or collegiate sporting events

Tickets for other entertainment events intended for the general public

Sexually-oriented businesses

Strip clubs

Any business or retail establishment where minors under age 18 are not permitted.

• 
  

 

[bcla]

I suspect that a lot of people on some sort of public assistance either hide income sources and/or avoid getting married because it might affect the assistance. Some may even decline raises. However, food stamps are piddly compared to other forms of assistance.

I remember one classmate in elementary school who got a free school lunch. She didn't seem to be from a poor background, and she said her family lied about her income to qualify. I certainly don't wish any kid to go hungry, but it's pretty obvious that there's traditionally a lot of abuse of various government assistance programs.

 

[mnrose]

One of the largest USA tax subsidies is the mortgage interest deduction.

True, and it mainly goes (in sheer dollars) to the upper middle class and upper class people. No one complains about that one, though. One might question why, as a matter of policy, we subsidize the purchase of homes for otherwise rich people. Makes no sense to me.

 

[mnrose]

I suspect that a lot of people on some sort of public assistance either hide income sources and/or avoid getting married because it might affect the assistance. Some may even decline raises. However, food stamps are piddly compared to other forms of assistance.

I remember one classmate in elementary school who got a free school lunch. She didn't seem to be from a poor background, and she said her family lied about her income to qualify. I certainly don't wish any kid to go hungry, but it's pretty obvious that there's traditionally a lot of abuse of various government assistance programs.

It's not easy in our state to abuse free/reduced lunch programs. You HAVE to prove you on some form of government aid (SNAP, for example). It's not just "hey, I'd like a free lunch please."

Even so, it simply isn't that much money. I'd rather every kid get a free lunch than have one go hungry. But, that's just me. YMMV.

 

[Sparkly]

Welfare recipients are required to go to work within 2 years of receiving benefits or risk losing the benefits.

You should look up food desert. You don't seem to understand that the stores in inner cities don't carry things like fresh fruits and vegetables. Or fresh meat. It is a well documented problem.

The problem is that from what I can see it's a multi-layered issue. It's not just that people buy convenience items with food stamps. It's because they live in a area where there simply isn't well stocked grocery stores and their family lives in a hotel where they do not have cooking facilities over a microwave and a fridge.

One of those things where you cannot just solve one issue without coming across another. And I certainly don't think restricting what a family can buy with food stamps is helping matters.

 

[MattsPrincess]

As a current recipient of EBT benefits:

You don't just say "i need this" and they hand you a card. There's an application and approval process. You have to give them information about everyone in your household, regardless of age or relation. You have to give them your address, work history, proof of income, auto information if you have a car, proof of residence, rental/mortgage info…etc. If any of that information changes (you move, get a car, job changes, etc) you have to report it immediately or you can lose your benefits.

We do only get a certain amount per month, based on a lot of qualifying factors. For example, I get my benefits on the 5th of each month. If I'm out of money on my card before the 5th of the next month, I do not get more. The amount does roll over into the next month, if you get enough that there's any left.

There already are limits on what you can buy. Only food/edible items, with the exception of vitamins. No hot/prepared foods. No alcohol. I can only use it at an EBT approved facility.

Not everyone can make cash withdrawals on the EBT card. That is a separate set of benefits with a separate application process.

I don't know about other states, but in MI, I have to reapply every 6 months and be re-approved for benefits. It doesn't just keep coming indefinitely.

With the amount I get, I can usually buy food for *about* two weeks. That's buying relatively healthy things and mostly ingredients to make meals. I'd get a lot more out of it if I used it to buy all frozen meals, processed things, etc. (because they don't spoil) Occasionally I will "splurge" and grab a snickers bar or a box of popsicles.

Attending college, regardless of any other factors, renders you ineligible for food benefits. I know this, because I lost mine when I went back to school. In fact, I'd love to be able to go back again and finish my Bachelors, but I *need* the EBT right now, so I can't. I'm literally having to choose keeping myself fed over furthering my education, because that's the way "the system" is set up.

Yes, it needs work. Yes, there are people that abuse it. There are people that abuse everything. MOST people that use EBT just really need it. Most probably aren't willingly to tell people they use it, because the stigma is so strong they're embarrassed. When I pay at the grocery store, I keep my EBT card as deep in my hand as I can for as long as I can. I don't want anyone to see it and start judging me.

Placing further restrictions on what types of food can be purchased with the card will do nothing but strengthen the stigma and judgement, and lessen the nutrition users get. It seems like a very slippery slope, if you ask me. First seafood and steaks, then what? Organic items? That's more expensive and "not necessary" as well. Things about this program do need work, change, and updating...but this is NOT the way to go about it.

 

[bcla]

It's not easy in our state to abuse free/reduced lunch programs. You HAVE to prove you on some form of government aid (SNAP, for example). It's not just "hey, I'd like a free lunch please."

Even so, it simply isn't that much money. I'd rather every kid get a free lunch than have one go hungry. But, that's just me. YMMV.

It was a long time ago and I'm guessing they weren't really all that thorough.

We recently signed up our kid for kindergarten. We live in one of the more desirable areas of our district and this school scores highly, although I feel it's probably a matter of families and income level. We had to go through the ringer to prove we lived in the zone, including presenting a property tax statement and a utility bill. I'd heard of people who lied about their residence years before, and often all that was needed was a friend willing to collect and forward mail. We also had teachers in my school who were upfront that they knew address fraud was going on and didn't care. Many didn't care for the social engineering attempts. One HS was near a notorious housing project with serious gang problems. The school itself looked like a jail. We were told they didn't have windows because they knew they'd get broken. If you lived in this housing project just two blocks away, you were destined for our HS 2 miles away.