Minor Rant on Guests~ ~

[flechette]

<bangs head against wall>

I absolutely do know better-- I really do but~ ~ ~

Friends trip has been planned for this Oct for 2 years, pretty much since we bought DVC.

Started a group savings account in 2007, did monthly newsletter updates on attractions and prices and closing etc.

You already know where this is going right?

One friend pulled out of the trip early 2008 because he got engaged, then rejoined when they broke up earlier this year (huge sigh of relief from the all of us). He's had multiple opportunities to rejoin the savings account and has missed every single promise to pay up.

He was supposed to pay up next week and I got an email from him saying he had some $$ but not all of it + what did this money cover?



Since Aug 2007 I have sent out emails, and for both Aug and Sept '09 I had included a detailed list expenses and estimated amounts I had thought of and asked for more suggestions in case I missed anything.

I responded back that he needed to re-examine his budget cause matching the savings account still didn't cover all the costs-

His response - just count me out.

Now some people are irate with me - but OTOH I don't see anyone else offering to cover his costs. This guy is a dear friend - he's witty, articulate, fun and just generally a great guy to be around. He is also a free-loader and there isn't a single one of us he hasn't burned money-wise hence the original reason for the savings fund.

This is also the guy - who last month said "the only thing I want is to not see a "Space Mountain is Closed sign" umm gee have you listened or read anything I've sent out these last several months? SM will be closed unless we luck into a soft opening run (we did for PotC back in 2006)

"nope - your emails are TLTR and you said we'd get a soft opening"
(TLTR = Too Long To Read)

So I want to kill him and will miss him on the trip at the same time

next I'm waiting for him to ask for his $$ back for MNSSHP ticket - which is non-refundable and was explained multiple times

I'm not doing anything like taking him off the reservations or changing our table numbers til the end of this month - if he can work it out GREAT! if not then... well there will be other trips but it won't be in our DVC villa~


What is the latest we can make changes to reservations with the dining plan, anyway?

<cough> and I have no doubt there are bets going on about how soon I'll fold... can't blame them, I'm wondering what can be worked out myself.

 

[fishermouse]

JMHO, drop the loser from your resi. as long as he is on the room resi you have to have DDP for him. It's all or none as far as DDP is concerned, you'll end up messing up the plans for everyone if you wait. Unless you want to pay his way, sounds like thats what he wants.

 

[Kathi OD]

I have to say I agree with fishermouse. Why you would even want to mess around with this person after all the grief is beyond my understanding.

FWIW, I wouldn't refund any of the money he paid into the account either and use it as a "pay back" for all the times the rest of the group supported him financially in some other activity. But that's just me, I'm mean like that.

 

[ajf1007]

JMHO, drop the loser from your resi. as long as he is on the room resi you have to have DDP for him. It's all or none as far as DDP is concerned, you'll end up messing up the plans for everyone if you wait. Unless you want to pay his way, sounds like thats what he wants.

What you said! I agree, drop the baggage and move on. You can't let one person ruin it for your whole group, PLUS you've done so much work to get it and keep it organized, this is just unacceptable.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Sounds to me like all along you knew this would happen. You tried to control the situation but it still turned out like you originally expected. He's still your friend for a reason. You still keep him around for a reason. Obviously, that reason is not due to his fiscal responsibility.

Either you want him on the vacation or you dont. If you do, then you will make it happen. If you dont that's ok too, as long as you make the decision and not regret it later.

Maybe he has enough money to do what he wants to do just not all the things planned for the group?

I took 42 family members to SSR in 2007. All different financial backgrounds and means. When you invite people, you have an obligation to consider the financial ability of all in the group. We all had a great time and I was happy to have each and every one of them there no matter what it took. Blessings come in all ways

 

[flechette]

JMHO, drop the loser from your resi. as long as he is on the room resi you have to have DDP for him. It's all or none as far as DDP is concerned, you'll end up messing up the plans for everyone if you wait. Unless you want to pay his way, sounds like thats what he wants.

<sigh> I expect you're right about his wants - I'm not sure what the cut off time is for the DDP changes. I'm going to double check that before doing anything + plus give him time to seriously think over stuff vs a knee jerk reaction

I have to say I agree with fishermouse. Why you would even want to mess around with this person after all the grief is beyond my understanding.

I did list some of his good qualities He has a great deal of charm and is good at keeping a group happy together but as Liferbabe said below - fiscal responsibilty isn't his strong point

What you said! I agree, drop the baggage and move on. You can't let one person ruin it for your whole group, PLUS you've done so much work to get it and keep it organized, this is just unacceptable.

Thank you for recognizing the hard work! Everyone in the group wants him to come along, but no one wants to pick up the tab.

Sounds to me like all along you knew this would happen. You tried to control the situation but it still turned out like you originally expected. He's still your friend for a reason. You still keep him around for a reason. Obviously, that reason is not due to his fiscal responsibility.

Either you want him on the vacation or you dont. If you do, then you will make it happen. If you dont that's ok too, as long as you make the decision and not regret it later.

Maybe he has enough money to do what he wants to do just not all the things planned for the group?

I took 42 family members to SSR in 2007. All different financial backgrounds and means. When you invite people, you have an obligation to consider the financial ability of all in the group. We all had a great time and I was happy to have each and every one of them there no matter what it took. Blessings come in all ways

LB you are 100% correct on all accounts. I really hoped he'd grown to be better than this - and in lot of ways he has. He's doing so much better financially - ie paying rent and utilities instead of buying video games, cds, and comics (he's 36)

Overall we're doing this trip pretty minimally: driving down, staying off property 1 night, doing SeaWorld 1 day (his idea- may I add), DDP, WDW tickets via our military discount. We haven't asked for anything for use of the Grand Villa.

We are doing MNSSHP party and he has paid for that ticket, we just booked the Wishes dessert party and he hasn't paid for that yet. Overall I estimate his costs to be around $550 and I suggested adding in $100 to cover souvenirs and other unexpected costs.

I've been listing the costs all along so it's on him as to whether he can afford it or not. Since July he's said he'd have the money and I took him at his word. My bad


I'm gonna stick w/ wait and see til I've heard a bit more from people. Someone else may be willing to put down a cc, there is at least 1 person even more wishy washy than me.

He is a good person, he's been around for us thru some pretty horrible spots. But that doesn't mean I can afford to pay his way to Disney.

Thanks for listening tho all~

 

[JimMIA]

I'd go with killing him and missing him. He may have social skills you find attractive, but he's a baby and a cheap freeloader. If you're not up to actually killing him, I'd take him off everything immediately and refer him to CRO if he changes his mind.

You've put a ton of work into making everything perfect, and no matter how cute or clever he is, he's a big net negative to the trip -- look how much extra work he's caused you already. Focus on your adult friends who will contribute to your trip.

Also, on ADRs, don't change them for one person. Just show up one short and tell them somebody couldn't make it.

One less is never a problem, unless you have a guaranteed ADR where you are going to be charged for no-shows...which incidentally, is a very good reason not to refund any money to him until the trip is complete.

 

[Chuck S]

I would never have started the savings thing, period. I would not have done the DDP, either, unless there are separate rooms involved, and then the people in each room could make the decision to include DDP or not. If it is a persons first visit, I send out info on things, like normal food costs, a few menus of our favorite places, and cost of special event tickets. I ask if there are any specific activities or meals they want to join us for, and make those ADRs..other than that they are on their own. As far as flights, if we are flying I give them our flight numbers...sometimes we all wind up on the same flights...sometimes not.

 

[fers31]

Ok....maybe it's just me, but what kind of 36 year old doesn't have $500 to his name??

 

[JimMIA]

Ok....maybe it's just me, but what kind of 36 year old doesn't have $500 to his name??

It's not just you! He's playing them all like a fiddle!

At least you get to choose your friends, but you still get the whole package.

 

[Chuck S]

Ok....maybe it's just me, but what kind of 36 year old doesn't have $500 to his name??

More than you may think. I have a 36 yo friend that is similar with spending $$. He has traveled to Disney with us (his older brother and his family also traveled with us). His Mom paid for his park ticket, his brother paid for his flight and meals. And he is lots of fun to travel with. He spends his $$ on comic books and computer stuff. While undiagnosed, he shows all the typical quirks of someone with Aspergers Syndrome and has since he was a child. So I have to wonder if something like that is going on with the OP. It means you have to set defininte, clear limits on what is and isn't included...and again, it is really best not to try to do a savings account, or plan on the DDP...he may be just as happy with counter service or snacks for his meals.

But I only provide lodging, and they all know that upfront.

 

[JimMIA]

It means you have to set defininte, clear limits on what is and isn't included...

OP recognizes the problem and tried to establish clear limits up front. The problem is not in setting the guidelines -- that's easy. It's the enforcement that's tough, especially with friends and family.

We have not done a large group trip, but I'm sure every problem is magnified when you are planning for lots of people -- more interests, more limitations, more egos...BIG headaches.

But I only provide lodging, and they all know that upfront.

You may be onto something, Chuck! That's what we do too.

 

[Chuck S]

OP recognizes the problem and tried to establish clear limits up front. The problem is not in setting the guidelines -- that's easy. It's the enforcement that's tough, especially with friends and family.

We have not done a large group trip, but I'm sure every problem is magnified when you are planning for lots of people -- more interests, more limitations, more egos...BIG headaches.

Overplanning for a group, especially a large group, is a stepping stone to disaster. Everyone has different expectations, and vacation styles. That is whay it is generally better to simply provide the lodging and let everyone do their own thing. You can plan a few meals for the whole party if they wish, but certainly not a daily meal itinerary or even the DDP, as it just doesn't fit into everyone's style. And handling the $$, as in a savings account or collecting prepayment, just doesn't seem like something that would end well. If they want to do a hard ticket event, they can order their own tickets online...or, if you want to pay their way to the function, that would work...but I never advance $$ expecting repayment...it isn't worth the hassle or hard feelings.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Overplanning for a group, especially a large group, is a stepping stone to disaster. Everyone has different expectations, and vacation styles. That is whay it is generally better to simply provide the lodging and let everyone do their own thing. You can plan a few meals for the whole party if they wish, but certainly not a daily meal itinerary or even the DDP, as it just doesn't fit into everyone's style. And handling the $$, as in a savings account or collecting prepayment, just doesn't seem like something that would end well. If they want to do a hard ticket event, they can order their own tickets online...or, if you want to pay their way to the function, that would work...but I never advance $$ expecting repayment...it isn't worth the hassle or hard feelings.

I agree completely. I originally planned a CM breakfast for our large group. That was the only ADR of the entire reunion. I cancelled as it would have been just too much of a hassle to get everyone there and paying the bill. No one missed it either. We made a big breakfast in the GV and had a great time and no one was excluded because of money. And some people are "challenged" when it comes to everyday finances. We paid for certain things for certain people and my brothers helped out also for some of the college aged kids. My younger brother, still works at an arcade. Sweet as can be, and will do anything for you, just not good with money. Never has been. My oldest brother paid his way. We all had a blast and a few months later, friends took my oldest brother on an all expense paid trip to Comic-Con in San Fran So I dont judge. We all have people in our lives for a reason. We keep them in our lives for a reason too. You do what you can do because that is all you have control over. If you cant do it, nothing wrong with that either.
If I want to go Deluxe with friends, I only invite my "Deluxe" Friends Those that dont have a problem paying their fare share. You know the ones that you fight over the bill with every time you dine together.

 

[tigger2on]

Kinda in the same boat with our Nephew (9)... we leave next Thurs. and invited him to join us back in July 2008. Well his mom just called and said he can't come because she didn't put any money aside for his park pass. We already paid his plane ticket and were going to pay for his dining plan too. We did buy him a MNSSHP but what can you do? I gave it to a fellow Diser so that she could take her dd.
We weren't going to use it and couldn't get the refund... so spreading tha magic was our choice.
However I feel bad for the kid... he was looking forward to it. His lazy *** dad has been outta work for 2 years... says he's looking but at this point... I would have moved away and started sending money home ages ago. LOSER!
We are traveling with my mom and 2 other couples... we gave them their rooms though...
I hope tings work out and you know no matter what, you'll have a GREAT time!

<bangs head against wall>

I absolutely do know better-- I really do but~ ~ ~

Friends trip has been planned for this Oct for 2 years, pretty much since we bought DVC.

Started a group savings account in 2007, did monthly newsletter updates on attractions and prices and closing etc.

You already know where this is going right?

One friend pulled out of the trip early 2008 because he got engaged, then rejoined when they broke up earlier this year (huge sigh of relief from the all of us). He's had multiple opportunities to rejoin the savings account and has missed every single promise to pay up.

He was supposed to pay up next week and I got an email from him saying he had some $$ but not all of it + what did this money cover?



Since Aug 2007 I have sent out emails, and for both Aug and Sept '09 I had included a detailed list expenses and estimated amounts I had thought of and asked for more suggestions in case I missed anything.

I responded back that he needed to re-examine his budget cause matching the savings account still didn't cover all the costs-

His response - just count me out.

Now some people are irate with me - but OTOH I don't see anyone else offering to cover his costs. This guy is a dear friend - he's witty, articulate, fun and just generally a great guy to be around. He is also a free-loader and there isn't a single one of us he hasn't burned money-wise hence the original reason for the savings fund.

This is also the guy - who last month said "the only thing I want is to not see a "Space Mountain is Closed sign" umm gee have you listened or read anything I've sent out these last several months? SM will be closed unless we luck into a soft opening run (we did for PotC back in 2006)

"nope - your emails are TLTR and you said we'd get a soft opening"
(TLTR = Too Long To Read)

So I want to kill him and will miss him on the trip at the same time

next I'm waiting for him to ask for his $$ back for MNSSHP ticket - which is non-refundable and was explained multiple times

I'm not doing anything like taking him off the reservations or changing our table numbers til the end of this month - if he can work it out GREAT! if not then... well there will be other trips but it won't be in our DVC villa~


What is the latest we can make changes to reservations with the dining plan, anyway?

<cough> and I have no doubt there are bets going on about how soon I'll fold... can't blame them, I'm wondering what can be worked out myself.

 

[permavac]

...He was supposed to pay up next week and I got an email from him saying he had some $$ but not all of it + what did this money cover?

...He is also a free-loader and there isn't a single one of us he hasn't burned money-wise hence the original reason for the savings fund...

You have to laugh when people tell you "I can't afford that" How many times do friends/family/acquaintances use this term when they really mean "I don't want to spend my money on that"? Sure, there are definitely some people out there who just don't have the money OR the credit (not that I advocate living on credit cards) to buy something they really, really, really want, but in this country, that seems to be the extreme minority. What he is really (maybe) telling you that to him, he could take or leave this trip and the money he has offered is all that he's willing to spend on it. And there is nothing wrong with that - it's just the excuses and crys of poverty that are unjustified.

As LiferBabe suggests - if you really want this guy on the trip, it'll be up to you (and/or the rest of the posse) to make it happen - it's doubtful he will "come up" with the rest of the money (especially if he's used this tactic before with success), but don't get me wrong though; I don't think towing the line this time will "teach him a lesson". He's probably just as content not to go. Sorry for my rant - I know I don't know this friend of yours personally - I just have experience with a "freeloader" of my own At any rate, good luck and enjoy your trip!

Terri

 

[rentayenta]

Be his friend, just not his traveling friend. Have a magical trip.

 

[manning]

There aren't any room for free loaders for me.

 

[jimmytammy]

I feel your pain. Just the other day I was posting about a subject very similar, and how we as owners are emotionally attached, not just financially, so we tend to let it get to us even more.

It has happened to us, AGAIN!!

My mom and dad are going with us in Dec cause mom wants to see Candlelight Processional. So she goes and invites a friend. No problem, friend has known for months, is excited and ready to go. So Sun night 2 weeks ago we are talking about buying their plane tickets that night. All is well. Tickets bought, Candlelight Processional dinner package purchased($40 cancel policy now in place) then wham, moms friend comes up on Fri, says she cant go. Plane tickets non refundable, CP and all other dining booked, and just everything in upside down mode.

I am moving on, not letting it bother me cause it is getting to the point where everytime we invite someone, something always happens. It is in the cards I guess. We like to share our fortune in being DVC owners, but it seems to backfire every time. No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[eliza61]

Unforunately, I have relatives that suffer from this syndrome.

Op, there is a saying that you cannot control other peoples actions but you can control your response to their actions.

My sister can't commit to a trip to walmart. Yes, she's a great sister. She too is funny charming etc etc, she can also be self centered and beyond unreliable. She has burned me on disney trips one too many times. I love her but know better than too plan a trip depending on cash from her.

Keep your friend, enjoy his good qualities and recognize his bad qualities. cut your losses with him and enjoy your trip.