Minium Wage/ McD's/ Sense of Entitlement

[usd2bmd]

I meant $ lol, but yeah. Too many people lack the basic economic education to figure that out. Supply and demand. Those that want to double the salary of the fast food worker can pay the difference. It's not rocket science to do these jobs so why should it be paid at a rate that high?

We priced out inhome help for our inlaws this week. The company (in the DC are where incomes are high) charges like $17/hour for in home help. I think that's worth a lot more than slapping together a hamburger. The $17 is what the company makes per hour, not the employee. This in an area where the average household income is over 100K/year.

But you realize the company that you're paying $17/hr isn't paying their employee that or even near that

 

[Neelloc]

OMG. So, your answer is let's just raise minimum wage and keep people in low paying, low skilled jobs? Why not expect people to strive for more. Like this country was built on. Too many expect everyone else to take care of them.

Have you ever heard of an example? Sigh!!

Why can't I just go to bed?

Hmmm. Where I work, a lot of my coworkers work 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, because none of the jobs they do hold, individually, pay a living wage. Isn't that striving for more? How is that letting someone else take care of them?

Not everyone who works a low paying job relies on government assistance.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

OMG. So, your answer is let's just raise minimum wage and keep people in low paying, low skilled jobs? Why not expect people to strive for more. Like this country was built on. Too many expect everyone else to take care of them.

I think the thing folks sometimes miss is that in order for anyone to be at the top, someone has to be at the bottom. Sure, we could double the minimum wage, but it would lead to higher unemployment and inflation. And pretty soon, $15 an hour won't pay more than $7.50 currently does. It's a vicious cycle

Now, over time the ratio of the "tops" and "bottoms" changes and right now it's out of balance. But, like anything else, this too is temporary.

 

[eliza61]

Sigh.

I'm bowing out of this thread for tonight.

I have to be up extra early for my minimum wage retail job tomorrow morning.

Tell ya what. If you promise not to judge me for working there, I promise not to judge your purchases and how you treat me when going through my line.

Someone's got to ring up your toilet tissue, curtains, and shampoo and all those other items you don't want to pay to much for.

LOL just don't ask for a raise because then you're emotional and entitled.
have a good day tomorrow. I admire anyone who works with the public.

 

[bdcp]

As I mentioned... Many worked in manufacturing. That has been a dying industry for quite a while.


That would be great but if some people are like me they would have no idea how to start a small business nor can they afford to. You have to have at the very least something unique or needed to sell.


I appreciate what you do.

Um, 40 years ago, my father was finishing his PhD (all on his own dime with a wife who didnt' work and 3 kids), my DFIL was working without a degree doing technical writing, my grandfathers worked jobs (one on the railroad, one was delivering milk). None in manufacturing. In fact, I know almost no one whose family members were in manufacturing.

The funny thing is, my DS roommate has a degree in engineering manufacturing and when Detroit car companies fell apart (hmmm, thanks to unions) he couldn't find a job, but guess what he just got a job in his field starting this week, so manufacturing is still out there.

How many people, outside of Detroit worked in manufacturing 40 years ago? Far from the majority.

I'm really getting tired of all the excuses. Do you realize how many people have made a career out of being on unemployment in the last few years?

All of this has very little to do with McDonald's workers wanting double their pay. Seriously? I would love double my pay, but it isn't going to happen and it shouldn't. That's the reality, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

"If" they got what they wanted, a lot of them would lose their jobs as a result and franchises would close and the cost of a Big Mac would more than double. It's called basic economics. McDonald's and other fast food places were never intended to be careers, unless you wanted to be management. And, not everyone is management material. I'm tired of my tax money supporting/subsidizing those that dont' really want to improve themselves, but want everyone to support them. That is a self-limiting proposition by the way. It's completely unsustainable.

What crap is that?

The "welfare and dependent" state has existed for a long time. It's what the liberals live for.

I was an economics major so I "get" how the economy works. I'll ask you again, you really would pay $12 for a Big Mac? I doubt it'. It sounds good to be a bleeding heart on paper or to your friends, but when it comes down to it, most people are about their own wallet.

Also, as for the "useless wars" you don't know what you don't know.

I have a PhD. in economics, along with a B.A. in economics (and a J.D. for good measure) from a top university and I work in investment banking, and you do not understand economics or how the economy works.

I'll leave the rest of your obvious political rantings alone, as clearly there's no hope of a civil discussion with you and so there's no point...

When it comes to minimum wage jobs, you pay for the position, not the person.

"Thinking has become so emotional and so politically bias on the subject of wages that, in most discussions of them, the plainest principles are ignored. People who would be among the first to deny that prosperity could be brought about by artificially boosting prices, people who would be among the first to point out that minimum price laws might be most harmful to the very industries they were designed to help, will nevertheless advocate minimum wage laws, and denounce opponents of them, without misgivings.

"The first thing that happens, for example, when a law is passed that no one shall be paid less than $9 per hour is that no one who is not worth $9 per hour to an employer will be employed at all. You cannot make a man worth a given amount by making it illegal for anyone to offer him anything less. You merely deprive him of the right to earn the amount that his abilities and situation would permit him to earn, while you deprive the community even of the moderate services that he is capable of rendering.

"In brief, for a low wage you substitute unemployment. You do harm all around, with no comparable compensation."  "Economics in One Lesson," by Henry Hazlitt

Except he wasn't really an economist, he was a politically-slanted journalist.

 

[bdcp]

I think the thing folks sometimes miss is that in order for anyone to be at the top, someone has to be at the bottom. Sure, we could double the minimum wage, but it would lead to higher unemployment and inflation. And pretty soon, $15 an hour won't pay more than $7.50 currently does. It's a vicious cycle

Now, over time the ratio of the "tops" and "bottoms" changes and right now it's out of balance. But, like anything else, this too is temporary.

Yep. People really don't want socialism. Yet, socialism is really what some are looking for when they want everyone to make a certain amount. There will always be those that make more, and I've accepted that. Obviously some haven't and don't understand a free market economy which is what made this country what is used to be, not so much anymore, unfortunately.

I love how those that think this is a good idea really don't understand how supply and demand works. They need to let go of the emotion.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I have a PhD. in economics, along with a B.A. in economics (and a J.D. for good measure) from a top university and I work in investment banking, and you do not understand economics or how the economy works.

Our economy is REAL simple. When gas is cheap, it booms. When gas is expensive, it doesn't.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I've read every post on this thread and I have to say that with the "me first" attitude displayed by many it's a good thing there's a minimum wage. It cracks me up that so many people are against increasing the minimum wage because it will supposedly increase the cost to the consumer for those products and services, yet are quite content to take their annual raises and bonuses when offered by their employer. Do you not think that increasing your wage increases the costs for the consumers of YOUR product and services??

The difference is none of those raises or bonuses are the result of law. They are market driven. Same for the striking workers. If their employers are unable to fill those positions, they may have to raise wages.

 

[Acklander]

I think the thing folks sometimes miss is that in order for anyone to be at the top, someone has to be at the bottom. Sure, we could double the minimum wage, but it would lead to higher unemployment and inflation. And pretty soon, $15 an hour won't pay more than $7.50 currently does. It's a vicious cycle

Now, over time the ratio of the "tops" and "bottoms" changes and right now it's out of balance. But, like anything else, this too is temporary.

Yes, someone has to be at the bottom, and no one is saying that the janitor has to make the same rate as the CEO of McDonalds, however, businesses are making record profits, and 100% of those extra profits are going straight to the top while those who help contribute to the profits are starving. Doubling the wages does not mean doubling the cost of the product. I read one study that showed if Walmart raised pay to 12$ an hour, it would raise the cost of your purchases by 1.5%. That's it. I think that would be worth it, don't you?

 

[kamik86]

So yes a study was done that if McDonalds paid a living wage that all menu items would go up an average of 47 cents. That doesn't sound like a lot.

However that assumes that only McDonalds raised wages. Not the companies that supply their products.

Oh and if McDonalds was the only one that did this then it still wouldn't work because everyone would go to burger king and wendy's.

So all those saying that "the few times I go to McDonalds I would pay more for a living wage" Well that would only fix McDonalds, but your grocery stores and the stores you buy your clothes, don't pay $15 an hour either so if that was the minimum wage everything you have would cost a few cents more. If literally everything you purchase went up by even 10% that might no longer be ok with you.

And those that would really get hurt? Those that did learn a skill and better themselves or worked for a few years and got raises and now make 10-15 an hour... because all of a sudden they are now making minimum wage and will have the buying power of minimum wage. So you just made things much worse for them.

Or and the person making $20 an hour... that could afford to not only live but a few luxuries... they didn't get a raise when the minimum wage went up so its like they took a pay cut. Now they are just making ends meet too.

Those that are still making plenty of money that have enough to save some and can spend on things that aren't really needed... they just saw sticker shock prices went up a ton, they don't feel financially secure anymore. So they stop spending on things they don't need, they save more just in case.

All of this tanks the economy.

So yes one or two companies if they have a product that is unique enough that people would pay more for it and not just go to a competitor could raise their wages and not hurt the economy but everyone cannot.

It is truth that your right not everyone has the ability to go to college or learn some of the harder more useful skills that would pay. However it is also truth that someone will always be on the bottom and make the least, someone will always have very very little compared to everyone else in a society. Those people in our society actually do pretty well... so if I was going to be willing to pay more for some goods and services it wouldnt' be to raise the situations of those at McDonalds I would want to spend my money on those that could be helped most with it. Those in other countries where the bottom of their society means you don't even get to have food, clothing, running water, etc.

 

[luvsJack]

Quote is weird, this is where my response starts:

Where are you? In the DC area, there are TONS of jobs in those fields. People need to be willing to move as their ancestors did.

Yes, I know how many businesses fail in a year. What's your point? Businesses have always had a failure rate. Ever heard of taking a risk? Your second paragraph makes no sense. The market will bear what the market will bear. There is a huge demand for plumbers/electricians/mechanics currently so why not take advantage of that? And, yes, I know someone who owns a Plumbing/HVAC business and they are always looking for skilled employees. There's a lot of money to be had in those skills right now.

Raising minimum wage isn't the answer.

The reality is we NEED skilled plumbers/electricians/mechanics. I'm not talking about solving the problem, but raising the minimum wage is not the answer, period.

(wasn't sure how the quote would turn out so colored it red)

I live in the south.

Let me explain the second paragraph:

For a long time there was a need for LPN's in this area. We graduate 50 LPN's a year, so does 3 other colleges in this area. After a few years, you have hundreds of LPNs. The job market is saturated with people looking for jobs as an LPN. There is no longer a shortage and shortly there becomes no need. Now this changes back and forth as some go on to other careers and some move. But in the meantime, some of those LPNs may have to take a job in fast food and NEED to support their family.

And again, not everyone can pick up and move. it takes money and it takes time that some do not have. Not all of them can choose to get a different degree, financial aid runs out or family needs someone working.

I agree with you that people should strive to do better. But the fact is that there are many people working at McD's that did strive to do better and that's the job they end up with. People that need to support a family.

We don't want them on government assistance but we don't want to pay higher prices so they don't have to have that assistance either.


As for running a business. I grew up with my family running small businesses. My grandparents did it, my parents did it. I ran a child care center for 12 years and closed by choice. Its not for everyone. Its long hours, its lots of stress and it costs money. At times during that 12 years, if I had been the sole provider, I couldn't have stayed with it. Now dh is self employed and after some very lean years we are starting to see the benefits from it. So while I am all for small businesses, I also can see that not everyone can do it.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Depends if they're working for a city, or private hauler.

Not really, the differential is less than $1,000 a year.

Specific places - not state average. Either way, much better than fast food

How many places? Where?

 

[ronandannette]

Yes, someone has to be at the bottom, and no one is saying that the janitor has to make the same rate as the CEO of McDonalds, however, businesses are making record profits, and 100% of those extra profits are going straight to the top while those who help contribute to the profits are starving. Doubling the wages does not mean doubling the cost of the product. I read one study that showed if Walmart raised pay to 12$ an hour, it would raise the cost of your purchases by 1.5%. That's it. I think that would be worth it, don't you?

Have you ever seen "Undercover Boss"? I find it comically tragic how "moved" the CEO's become at the struggles of the individual employees they get to know because they are so completely out of touch with the financial realities of trying to live on the lowest of wages. And while I haven't seen every episode, I have yet to see one where a CEO raised wages across the board for this level of employee.

 

[SAHDad]

So yes a study was done that if McDonalds paid a living wage that all menu items would go up an average of 47 cents. That doesn't sound like a lot.

Pretty sure that study has already had a bunch of holes poked in it - that the researcher was an undergrad, who confused McDonalds (corporate) with McDonalds (franchise locations), and looked at McDs (and only McDs) raising wages.

It's been a while since I had a minimum wage job, but I have done them - repeatedly. And, with one exception, I was not at minimum wage for long. It helped that I was young and single, and could take shifts that paid extra (overnight, holidays, etc) - and yeah, living that close to the bone is a major $%(*$&%.

(FWIW - the one exception was a job I took, and kept because the pay was sufficient to live, albeit poorly, and study while at work. Then, they raised minimum wage, and went from being $.25 an hour over minimum to minimum and lost hours in the process. To add insult to injury, my next review was scheduled for some 8 months hence - but if I quit, and reapplied, I could get a raise in 30 days. So yes, new hires were quickly getting paid more than I was. So I quit, and found a new job with more hours that paid better.)

 

[CPT Tripss]

Specific places - not state average. Either way, much better than fast food

Have you ever seen "Undercover Boss"? I find it comically tragic how "moved" the CEO's become at the struggles of the individual employees they get to know because they are so completely out of touch with the financial realities of trying to live on the lowest of wages. And while I haven't seen every episode, I have yet to see one where a CEO raised wages across the board for this level of employee.

You nailed that one . . . A lot of them come across as out of touch aristocrats. They might be touched by individual stories but do nothing to attack the root causes.

 

[Simba's Mom]

What many people fail to realize is that raising the minimum wage doesn't just affect minimum wage workers. Suppose you've been at a company for 2 years-you started at minimum wage, but worked your butt off and now make $3/hour over minimum wage. Now, they come along and raise minimum wage to more than what you make now. Well, you still want $3/hour over minimum wage. Increase all these other peoples' wages, and the price of hamburgers goes up far more than 47 cents, meaning people need more money, meaning.... Can you say "Inflation"? I knew that you could.

 

[FireDancer]

Jobs that are meant to be entry level or for kids, like fast food and retail, will pretty much never pay a living wage nor should it. It would be economically unfeasible. Not all jobs are meant to support an individual let alone a family.

Earning potential is a result of having in demand skills and being in an area where those skills are needed. It could be computers, accounting, carpentry, nursing, masonry, or anything else. Supply and demand is not just for the producer and consumer, it is just as applicable to the employer/employee relationship.

If you can't supply skills that demand a living wage you need to get them. If you have those skills but live in an area where they aren't in demand you need to relocate to a place where those skills are in demand. If you can't find anywhere that they are in demand go back to the previous sentence. Yes, that is blunt but it is reality.

 

[crashbb]

What many people fail to realize is that raising the minimum wage doesn't just affect minimum wage workers. Suppose you've been at a company for 2 years-you started at minimum wage, but worked your butt off and now make $3/hour over minimum wage. Now, they come along and raise minimum wage to more than what you make now. Well, you still want $3/hour over minimum wage. Increase all these other peoples' wages, and the price of hamburgers goes up far more than 47 cents, meaning people need more money, meaning.... Can you say "Inflation"? I knew that you could.

That isn't how it has worked when minimum wage was increased here. Anyone making over the new minimum stayed where they were - they might want to still make $3 over minimum wage, but they didn't.

Same with my current job (well over minimum wage). The re-did the salary bands - anyone making less than the new minimum had their salary raised to the new minimum, but no one else had their salaries changed (though, those at the top of the old bands now had room to get a performance increases).

 

[sunshinehighway]

Have you ever seen "Undercover Boss"? I find it comically tragic how "moved" the CEO's become at the struggles of the individual employees they get to know because they are so completely out of touch with the financial realities of trying to live on the lowest of wages. And while I haven't seen every episode, I have yet to see one where a CEO raised wages across the board for this level of employee.

I think the same can be said for some of the posters on this thread. There's at least one who has expressed some rather strong opinions about low wage workers and has previously mentioned a VERY high household income.

Its easy to say go back to school or just start a business when you have no concept of how difficult that is for some people.