Minium Wage/ McD's/ Sense of Entitlement

[FireDancer]

But she is right about a huge number of people Student loans get out of hand quick.

Our FA officer tries very hard to talk our students out of getting loans or to get only the amount needed for books or whatever they need to cover. But, there are so many that just immediately apply for the max. Other schools give students an award letter that includes that maximum loan in the award, they see that money and start thinking "well, i don't have to sacrifice anything to go to school and I can do x, y and z with that money". After 4 semester here and then moving on to a university, those loans add up to an astronomical amount. Quite a few max out their loan eligibility and can't get any more to compete their degree, so they end up with no degree and huge loans to pay back.

I don't know the answer because if too many limits are placed then it hurts the ones that truly needs the loans to get through school but the current way is hurting too many others.

What you are describing isn't a student loan problem, it is a poor money management problem. You could substitute "maximum student loan amount" with "maximum pre-approval amount" on a mortgage and have just as many people who saw that big number and took it without any regard to how they'd afford the payment.

These are exactly the kinds of things I spoke about earlier when I talked about not making bad decisions. Whether we are talking about taking on too much debt or ruining your credit before you are old enough to buy a beer these are the kinds of things that even 18 year olds need to think about. Youth isn't an excuse for these kinds of mistakes and I'm quite frankly tired of hearing (not from anyone particular just in general) it used as an excuse for these things.

 

[skylizard]

This thread has totally gone off topic. We've gone from discussing minimum wage to now debating on whether people should have children if they can't affor to pay for their college education....

 

[luvsJack]

What you are describing isn't a student loan problem, it is a poor money management problem. You could substitute "maximum student loan amount" with "maximum pre-approval amount" on a mortgage and have just as many people who saw that big number and took it without any regard to how they'd afford the payment.

These are exactly the kinds of things I spoke about earlier when I talked about not making bad decisions. Whether we are talking about taking on too much debt or ruining your credit before you are old enough to buy a beer these are the kinds of things that even 18 year olds need to think about. Youth isn't an excuse for these kinds of mistakes and I'm quite frankly tired of hearing (not from anyone particular just in general) it used as an excuse for these things.

So were you just born knowing the choices to make or did someone take them time to talk to you and teach you?

Of course you were taught or learned a lesson somewhere along the line. Not everyone is that fortunate. And whether you like it or not, youth and immaturity has a lot to do with it. It takes a certain amount of maturity to think about how much that loan is going to equal x 4 years of loans x 4 years of interest.

There needs to be much more credit/loan counseling done before these loans are simply given out. There is SOME counseling but its not enough and so much of it is done online where it just doesn't sink in.

 

[lustergirl]

This thread has totally gone off topic. We've gone from discussing minimum wage to now debating on whether people should have children if they can't affor to pay for their college education....

uh duh: welcome to the dis

 

[lustergirl]

But she is right about a huge number of people Student loans get out of hand quick.

Our FA officer tries very hard to talk our students out of getting loans or to get only the amount needed for books or whatever they need to cover. But, there are so many that just immediately apply for the max. Other schools give students an award letter that includes that maximum loan in the award, they see that money and start thinking "well, i don't have to sacrifice anything to go to school and I can do x, y and z with that money". After 4 semester here and then moving on to a university, those loans add up to an astronomical amount. Quite a few max out their loan eligibility and can't get any more to compete their degree, so they end up with no degree and huge loans to pay back.

I don't know the answer because if too many limits are placed then it hurts the ones that truly needs the loans to get through school but the current way is hurting too many others.

Yea I will be paying off student loans the rest of my natural born life

 

[FireDancer]

So were you just born knowing the choices to make or did someone take them time to talk to you and teach you?

Of course you were taught or learned a lesson somewhere along the line. Not everyone is that fortunate. And whether you like it or not, youth and immaturity has a lot to do with it. It takes a certain amount of maturity to think about how much that loan is going to equal x 4 years of loans x 4 years of interest.

There needs to be much more credit/loan counseling done before these loans are simply given out. There is SOME counseling but its not enough and so much of it is done online where it just doesn't sink in.

We had programs in middle school that taught us about credit, loans, taxes, and stuff like that. Here it was called Junior Achievement. I also had parents who drilled it into us from a young age that your credit is important so don't screw it up. Before I was out of 6th grade I knew how to amortize a loan and what you'd actually be paying down the road for money now. We had an entire math unit on the math of finance.

I don't agree with the poster that said parents should have to be able to pay for their kid's education. I do, however, feel parents should prepare their children for life and life choices. One of those life choices is about how to handle money and make good long term monetary decisions. If the school isn't going to do it the parents need to.

I was also mature enough to know that maxing out the credit cards I got at 18 was not smart and knew before I was out of high school that I was going to get a job, save up, and then continue to work through college so I didn't have any loans. It is one thing to have someone teach you lessons, it is another thing entirely to actually listen and apply it to life. That part I take credit for along with things like not doing drugs, not getting into a bad relationship, not knocking someone up when I was a teen or early 20-something. All of those were about what is best long term, not what feels good to do now.

We all get the chance to make good or bad decisions. I have no sympathy for people who do dumb things and then complain about it as though it is someone else's fault or they only did it because they were young or because of peer pressure or whatever. No one held a gun to (general) your head and made you take on more debt than you can handle. Read and understand anything you sign...another thing I was taught as a kid. If (general) you did make a different decision that is cool but own it, it was still your decision.

 

[ilovemk76]

That is not a discussion anymore, that is a personnal attack. Have you so little arguments that you need to insult others poster's children ? Disgusting.

You added so much to this discussion.

It is relevant to the discussion when the poster says one thing in this thread, to make her point but in a thread yesterday or over the weekend she stated a complete contradiction. A person who has $10-$12K per year to spend on vacation does have the means to save some for their kids college. Half of that covers books for four years for one child.

 

[luvsJack]

We had programs in middle school that taught us about credit, loans, taxes, and stuff like that. Here it was called Junior Achievement. I also had parents who drilled it into us from a young age that your credit is important so don't screw it up. Before I was out of 6th grade I knew how to amortize a loan and what you'd actually be paying down the road for money now. We had an entire math unit on the math of finance.

I don't agree with the poster that said parents should have to be able to pay for their kid's education. I do, however, feel parents should prepare their children for life and life choices. One of those life choices is about how to handle money and make good long term monetary decisions. If the school isn't going to do it the parents need to.

I was also mature enough to know that maxing out the credit cards I got at 18 was not smart and knew before I was out of high school that I was going to get a job, save up, and then continue to work through college so I didn't have any loans. It is one thing to have someone teach you lessons, it is another thing entirely to actually listen and apply it to life. That part I take credit for along with things like not doing drugs, not getting into a bad relationship, not knocking someone up when I was a teen or early 20-something. All of those were about what is best long term, not what feels good to do now.

We all get the chance to make good or bad decisions. I have no sympathy for people who do dumb things and then complain about it as though it is someone else's fault. No one held a gun to (general) your head and made you take on more debt than you can handle. Read and understand anything you sign...another thing I was taught as a kid.

Sounds like some great programs that you had the good fortune to be a part of. And smart parents. Not everyone is that fortunate.

And its great that you got through your teen years without making those mistakes. You do realize that you are fortunate that you were not led down those paths, don't you? You should take credit for that, but you should also give quite a bit of that credit to your parents because I am fairly certain that they had a lot to do with that. Although, I am not sure what any of that has to do with student loans

Rather than judging, you may want to take a moment and count your blessings. You have been fortunate.

You also have to remember that some people have these huge loans because there simply was no other way for them to get through school.

 

[Jex]

Or maybe his parents realized having a child is more than just providing shelter, and food and good luck wishes.

 

[luvsJack]

Or maybe his parents realized having a child is more than just providing shelter, and food and good luck wishes.

So anyone that doesn't think in the same way you do does this?

Of course it means more than that. But it doesn't have to mean that the parent gives the kid a free ride to college either.

It can/should be about the parent giving the kid the tools and skills to make good choices (which Firedancer's parents did). You can do that regardless of how much money you have.

 

[ilovemk76]

Sounds like some great programs that you had the good fortune to be a part of. And smart parents. Not everyone is that fortunate.

And its great that you got through your teen years without making those mistakes. You do realize that you are fortunate that you were not led down those paths, don't you? You should take credit for that, but you should also give quite a bit of that credit to your parents because I am fairly certain that they had a lot to do with that. Although, I am not sure what any of that has to do with student loans

Rather than judging, you may want to take a moment and count your blessings. You have been fortunate

I am not sure i learned to believe that debt was scary and to be avoided but I did. I also knew I was on my own, like many on here. I also knew I wanted a job that required a college degree, so I figure out how to go and how do it with the lowest amount of debt. Once I graduated I wanted that debt gone as soon as possible.

We should teach about money and debt. I do talk to the teens about considering the effect of that debt on their lifestyle when they graduate.

 

[Jex]

So anyone that doesn't think in the same way you do does this?

Of course it means more than that. But it doesn't have to mean that the parent gives the kid a free ride to college either.

It can/should be about the parent giving the kid the tools and skills to make good choices (which Firedancer's parents did). You can do that regardless of how much money you have.

So then why don't more do it?

 

[luvsJack]

So then why don't more do it?

Some just don't have the skills and tools themselves.

 

[Jex]

Some just don't have the skills and tools themselves.

Then maybe they shouldn't have children.

 

[luvsJack]

Then maybe they shouldn't have children.

You sure seem to think you should get to choose who does or doesn't have children.

 

[Jex]

You sure seem to think you should get to choose who does or doesn't have children.

I wish it was up to me, but alas it is not.
I guess I'm just in a strange mood about it, attended a kids birthday party this weekend, and got the barrage of when are you having a 2nd child questions all day. After being asked this all day by the people who have 3 kids and complain about the public schools, but since they have three private is not an option it gets to me.

 

[luvsJack]

I wish it was up to me, but alas it is not.
I guess I'm just in a strange mood about it, attended a kids birthday party this weekend, and got the barrage of when are you having a 2nd child questions all day. After being asked this all day by the people who have 3 kids and complain about the public schools, but since they have three private is not an option it gets to me.

LOL. Private isn't an option to a lot of people and not just because of the cost. private doesn't always = better anyway. I complain about the schools sometimes, but wouldn't consider private.

BTW, I am glad its not up to you, me or anyone else.

 

[FireDancer]

Sounds like some great programs that you had the good fortune to be a part of. And smart parents. Not everyone is that fortunate.

And its great that you got through your teen years without making those mistakes. You do realize that you are fortunate that you were not led down those paths, don't you? You should take credit for that, but you should also give quite a bit of that credit to your parents because I am fairly certain that they had a lot to do with that. Although, I am not sure what any of that has to do with student loans

Rather than judging, you may want to take a moment and count your blessings. You have been fortunate.

Yes, in some ways I had great parents who taught me good, valuable lessons. But we also had problems growing up. My parents were separated and back together more than once and my dad was a liar and gambling addict. Thanks to that we were not very secure financially. Kids can't control if their parents are good or bad but kids need to learn from a young age, as I had to, how to read situations and figure out what lessons you will be taught and what lessons you had to go out and learn on your own.

It is way beyond this thread but for every lesson I learned because of them and their example there is one I went out and learned for myself despite of them and their example. I made sure I learned that lesson or taught it to myself before I did anything that would effect my life negatively forever. That, in my opinion, is what kids need to do if they weren't taught financial skills by their parents. Get a book or find a mentor or do whatever they need before they make some decision that they will regret for the next 30 years.

You also have to remember that some people have these huge loans because there simply was no other way for them to get through school.

Oh, absolutely. I was only addressing the "take the maximum because they can" scenario. I don't think student loans are inherently bad in all situations but I think they are only one option and all other options need to also be addressed. From military to working through school to deferring college a couple of years after graduation. If it does turn that you need loans I feel a student should do everything possible to take the least amount of loans instead of the most.

Getting back to what this thread actually started as, people need to think long term about everything financial, education, and career orientated. Coleen brought up some good points about the shifting societal dynamic but at the same time many of the things we are doing individually is what is pushing that societal trend. We make decisions in our youth that make our lives harder and perpetuate negative cycles and then makes excuses for those decisions. We tend to blame others for circumstances we either put ourselves into or for decisions we made that make leaving those circumstances harder then they had to be. It is like we want society to provide an escape route for our bad decisions yet we don't want to address the poor decision making.

All just my opinion. I'm always willing to agree to disagree.

 

[lustergirl]

Then maybe they shouldn't have children.

Are we really back to this. Who gave you the right to play god and dictate how many or if any children people have? Maybe you should just mind your own and take care of your own family and stop worrying so much about others

 

[Jex]

Are we really back to this. Who gave you the right to play god and dictate how many or if any children people have? Maybe you should just mind your own and take care of your own family and stop worrying so much about others

Oh I'm sorry, I was under the impression this was a discussion board. I never told anyone specific not to, more of a general society thing, I even stayed out of the other thread about it.

God, now that isn't allowed here.