Minimalist Marathoners

[dragitoff]

I have a question for any minimalist runners who do full marathons. I got lucky I suppose when I bought my first REAL pair of running shoes by buying minimalist shoes (Saucony Kinvara). I bought them because they were light. I didn't know the difference between neutral, stability, etc... I liked them because they weren't heavy like my old running shoes. I trained with them and put a ton of miles on them. I did 5k's in them and long runs of 10-12 miles.

As I'm currently now in my second pair of minimalist shoes (Skechers GoRun) and about to buy a pair of Brooks Pure Connect this weekend, I'm curious if I can expect any changes or should I approach training differently going from a 1/2 marathon training to full marathon training using minimalist shoes. I'll be using the Brooks for longer runs and the Skechers on my daily 5k runs.

I'm a heavier runner (205lbs.) and I've been blessed to avoid any major injuries to this point. I've only had minor knee discomfort and some achilles pain, but both went away with some rest and focused stretching. I'm just trying to prepare myself as much as possible to prevent injuries rather than deal with them.

 

[cewait]

On the surface I would say you may be on the heavy side for minimalist shoes and 26 miles BUT if you have a great stride you can EASILY overcome that. So do not read anything into that statement. I am hoping that I am reading that you plan a marathon in the future with your new shoes and not next weekend.

I would say continue what you are doing. As long as you are not suffering injury and are striking forefoot or slightly back you should not have an issue. I would take you old pair of shoes in when you purchase the Brooks. Let the old guy in the store to look at the wear patterns and watch you run. He is in the best position to see exactly what you are doing.

 

[Goofed98]

Agree with Coach on this one. As long as your stride is right, you shouldn't have any issues.

I'm 35, 6', 208-ish, and I've done all my training for the last 3 years in minimalist shoes (kinvaras, five fingers, barefoot, etc.), and the distance didn't really matter.

 

[dragitoff]

On the surface I would say you may be on the heavy side for minimalist shoes and 26 miles BUT if you have a great stride you can EASILY overcome that. So do not read anything into that statement. I am hoping that I am reading that you plan a marathon in the future with your new shoes and not next weekend.

I would say continue what you are doing. As long as you are not suffering injury and are striking forefoot or slightly back you should not have an issue. I would take you old pair of shoes in when you purchase the Brooks. Let the old guy in the store to look at the wear patterns and watch you run. He is in the best position to see exactly what you are doing.

Great suggestion on the old shoes. My Kinvaras are thoroughly worn so they'd be the best gauge. The GoRuns are pretty new (only about 50 miles on them). I'm not running my first 1/2 marathon until March. I'm planning on trying on and hopefully purchasing the Pure Connect this weekend. I may do a moderately long run Saturday to try them out.

My plans are to do my first full marathon January 2013.

 

[dragitoff]

Just an update. I bought two new pairs of shoes last week. I visited a store out of town that actually knows what they're doing. It was so much more than just a store where you tell them your size and they bring out a box.

I bought a pair of Newton Gravity and Brooks Pure Connect. I've already done a long run of 9 miles with the Gravity and love them! They took a few miles to get used to the "lugs" but they felt great!

I've done a 3.1 mile run with the Pure Connect. I'm pretty sure the Newtons will be my long run shoes and the Pure Connects will be my 5k race shoes. I'll use the GoRuns as training shoes only. I like them, but LOVE the other shoes so much more.

 

[cewait]

Just an update. I bought two new pairs of shoes last week. I visited a store out of town that actually knows what they're doing. It was so much more than just a store where you tell them your size and they bring out a box.

I bought a pair of Newton Gravity and Brooks Pure Connect. I've already done a long run of 9 miles with the Gravity and love them! They took a few miles to get used to the "lugs" but they felt great!

I've done a 3.1 mile run with the Pure Connect. I'm pretty sure the Newtons will be my long run shoes and the Pure Connects will be my 5k race shoes. I'll use the GoRuns as training shoes only. I like them, but LOVE the other shoes so much more.

Never thought of the Gravity as a minimalist shoe. I have run Newtons for 3 years and love them. While the bars seem gimicky, they do promote a mid/forefoot strike. I switched over due to their insane ability to drain while on the run.

 

[dragitoff]

Personally, I don't consider them minimalist either. They are quite different in feel to the 3 types of minimalist shoes I've run with to date (kinvara, gorun, and Connect). I did love them though and they are lighter than standard running shoes, which was my sole reason for going with minimalist shoes to begin with.

 

[cewait]

Personally, I don't consider them minimalist either. They are quite different in feel to the 3 types of minimalist shoes I've run with to date (kinvara, gorun, and Connect). I did love them though and they are lighter than standard running shoes, which was my sole reason for going with minimalist shoes to begin with.

You'll love them even more once the bars wear down just a bit.

 

[dragitoff]

They claim you can get twice as much mileage out of them as standard running shoes. Would you agree with that assessment?

Based on your expertise, would you also consider this a better shoe option for me considering my weight? You had mentioned in a previous response that I might be a little on the heavy side for typical minimalist shoes although a good stride and mechanics could overule that decision (summarizing your point).

 

[cewait]

They claim you can get twice as much mileage out of them as standard running shoes. Would you agree with that assessment?

Based on your expertise, would you also consider this a better shoe option for me considering my weight? You had mentioned in a previous response that I might be a little on the heavy side for typical minimalist shoes although a good stride and mechanics could overule that decision (summarizing your point).

I am running at 205 to 215 myself and am not having issues. I am not sure that I would say they go twice as far. I retire mine with maybe 20-25% more miles. Would need to look up to be sure. But then I also start looking for new shuz earlier than most runners. So I will slide on a new pair to check them out and not return to the old ones as often. I should really push the miles on these two pairs and see if I can say double

 

[dragitoff]

I am running at 205 to 215 myself and am not having issues. I am not sure that I would say they go twice as far. I retire mine with maybe 20-25% more miles. Would need to look up to be sure. But then I also start looking for new shuz earlier than most runners. So I will slide on a new pair to check them out and not return to the old ones as often. I should really push the miles on these two pairs and see if I can say double

The lady at the store (who honestly seemed extremely knowledgable) said Newton said the shoes were good for 800+ miles. That seemed extremely high to me, but I know I got about 500 miles out of my Kinvaras (although that was way too many for those shoes). Of course, that could just be a selling tactic since they cost almost double what a normal pair of good running shoes cost. They try to justify by saying you'll get double the mileage out of them? lol.

I've got another "coaching" question to ask you. I've never done any formal training for myself. I've pretty much just started running and gradually built up the mileage. I know everyone is different, but am I doing OK for my body by running 12 miles every single weekend and then 3.1 miles 3-4 times per week?

Since I've got my first 1/2 in March, I've been desperately trying to get my times under 2 hours for that and then I'll move on to preparation for the full January 2013. I'm not increasing my mileage any more than 1 mile each week, but I usually stay at the same mileage for 2-3 weeks after that. Now, that I've gotten to 12, I've been running that same thing for 2 months. I actually decreased my weekend runs to 9 miles during the holidays due to time constraints (and of course, the nagging heal injury I've been dealing with).

 

[cewait]

The lady at the store (who honestly seemed extremely knowledgable) said Newton said the shoes were good for 800+ miles. That seemed extremely high to me, but I know I got about 500 miles out of my Kinvaras (although that was way too many for those shoes). Of course, that could just be a selling tactic since they cost almost double what a normal pair of good running shoes cost. They try to justify by saying you'll get double the mileage out of them? lol.

I've got another "coaching" question to ask you. I've never done any formal training for myself. I've pretty much just started running and gradually built up the mileage. I know everyone is different, but am I doing OK for my body by running 12 miles every single weekend and then 3.1 miles 3-4 times per week?

Since I've got my first 1/2 in March, I've been desperately trying to get my times under 2 hours for that and then I'll move on to preparation for the full January 2013. I'm not increasing my mileage any more than 1 mile each week, but I usually stay at the same mileage for 2-3 weeks after that. Now, that I've gotten to 12, I've been running that same thing for 2 months. I actually decreased my weekend runs to 9 miles during the holidays due to time constraints (and of course, the nagging heal injury I've been dealing with).

I would add some pull back weeks into the mix. Something like a pattern of 12 - 6- 12- 9- 12- 6..... for the long runs. Strength and conditioning are gained during periods of recovery or active recovery....

For the mid week stuff, add purpose to the runs. Make one a speed workout where you run intervals... For the half, quarter milers at anaerobic intensities (the point where you cannot say but 2-3 syllables if talking). Add hill intervals and then once a week, make one of the runs a threshold type run.. one where you are running between a 5k and 10 k pace for about 20 minutes to start then working up in time as the weeks go by. This pace is just about the intensity where you could say 2-3 word per breath is talking.

 

[dragitoff]

I would add some pull back weeks into the mix. Something like a pattern of 12 - 6- 12- 9- 12- 6..... for the long runs. Strength and conditioning are gained during periods of recovery or active recovery....

For the mid week stuff, add purpose to the runs. Make one a speed workout where you run intervals... For the half, quarter milers at anaerobic intensities (the point where you cannot say but 2-3 syllables if talking). Add hill intervals and then once a week, make one of the runs a threshold type run.. one where you are running between a 5k and 10 k pace for about 20 minutes to start then working up in time as the weeks go by. This pace is just about the intensity where you could say 2-3 word per breath is talking.

Thank you so much for the input! My weekday runs are usually taken at a much slower pace because I run with my wife. She's a much slower runner than I am (my 5k pace is around 24-25 minutes and hers is 30-32 minutes). Since we run on our highway in the dark, I try to stay with her so we run safely. We both have on our headlamps, reflective gear, and strobe lights.

Any time we get to run during daylight hours away from our highway, I push for a better time.

I do short fartleks during some of our morning runs and allow her to catch back up at a turnaround point. I usually go for 30-60 second bursts. Fortunately, I received a Garmin watch for Christmas so I've been able to monitor my time splits a little better than my previous stopwatch although my model has its limitations.

The hills are always incorporated in our runs as we have 2 decent hills on our road that we have the fortunate blessing of running each and every morning (cursing them the entire time we're running up them.)

I also failed to mention when I do my long runs, I do a 9 minute running/1 minute walking interval. The last minute before I go into my walk break, I run a little harder (typically about 1 minute per mile faster than normal pace). When doing shorter runs 3-6 miles, I do not do any walk intervals.