Militant Jesus Camp?

[Zippa D Doodah]

Wow That worshipping Bush clip was kinda weird.

Other than that I didn't see a whole lot that bothered me in that video. George Barna did a oft-quoted survey about 10 years ago which showed that people's most formative spiritual years were between the ages of 5-11. (Forgive me if I have the numbers slightly off; I don't have the info right in front of me.) I do think its excellent to see kids able to be passionate about their Christian faith. I wouldn't send my kids to this particular camp, but the goal of activating passionate young Christians is commendable.

There is absolutely no correlation to young Muslims in arms here. I know non-believers don't see this, but Christianity is not a violent religion. I guess since I share many of the values mentioned in the report, I am less likely than some to have a problem with it.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm not sure it's so subtle. Often the real purpose of threads like this as presenting a platform to pull all Christians and Christianity into it.

I think most of us realize this is a very,VERY small subgroup of avery small sect of Christianity

 

[Amity 3]

Seen these?

they're not much different than the 'magical underwear' Mormons wear.

 

[Rajah]

I have a very, very, very, VERY bad feeling about that group. OMG, that is so.... no, wrong. Extreme and... I'm at a loss for words.

It's more than just evangelical. It's extremist. And it's wrong. (IMO)

Perhaps you meant "radical" or "extreme" rather than devout? This video is portraying an extreme, not your average devout Christian.

Thank you.

 

[goofygirl]

Seen these?

They remind me of the garb worn by the KKK!

 

[disneyfan67]

Seen these?

My God, I can't believe someone would actually make their kids wear that, except for maybe Ned Flanders.

 

[Geoff_M]

My God, I can't believe someone would actually make their kids wear that,...

And of course none of us have any people think the same kind of thoughts when they see the Disney stuff we wear, decorate our homes with, or send our kids to school in, right?

 

[Fitswimmer]

And of course none of us have any people think the same kind of thoughts when they see the Disney stuff we wear, decorate our homes with, or send our kids to school in, right?

Good reminder! To each his own....

 

[singingpixie]

There is absolutely no correlation to young Muslims in arms here. I know non-believers don't see this, but Christianity is not a violent religion. I guess since I share many of the values mentioned in the report, I am less likely than some to have a problem with it.

The thing is, Islam is not a "violent religion" either-- sects became violent because they became so extreme in their beliefs that they dehumanized nonbelievers in their minds. Jihad in the sense that most Muslims interpret it (at least that I understand, being a Christian who has talked to several Muslims about it) is much the same as Christians talk about being willing to die for their beliefs, in the sense that Aidensmom brought up earlier. "Islam" actually means "peace" in Arabic.

That is why extremist beliefs are so dangerous- because they separate ideologically from the religion itself, and become a movement unto themselves, unrestrained by the moral codes of the mainstream religion. Believers of these movements think that because they are morally superior to the people they view as against them, codes of morality do not apply in their case.

 

[Fitswimmer]

That is why extremist beliefs are so dangerous- because they separate ideologically from the religion itself, and become a movement unto themselves, unrestrained by the moral codes of the mainstream religion. Believers of these movements think that because they are morally superior to the people they view as against them, codes of morality do not apply in their case.

Well stated!

 

[maleficent1959]

It's not the statement of that fact that makes it a leap, it's the attempt to link this fact with the existence of this camp.

Consider this statement using my analogy:Should people that prefer "organic" foods be lumped into the same boat as Ted Kaczynski??? Should an increase in interest in environmental sciences be used as a barometer for increased eco-terrorism?

No, but I think an increase in environmental studies programs, an increase in recycling, an increase in the organic foods market, and an ABC report on some enviromentalists who have a started a camp aimed at, oh I don't know, armed militant takeovers of zoos to free the oppressed sea lions, might lead me to think there's an increased interest in the state of our natural world.

I guess you're reading way more into the article than I am. Increased attendance at Christian colleges isn't spawning increasingly radical factions. It's just one part of the picture. Face it, all of these young people are not cookie-cutter Christians. Some are liberal, some moderate, some conservative. And if you have an increase in all of the "categories," then you'll likely see some increase in the number of radicals too. Not everyone who thinks about being a priest is sending money to this camp.

The unabomber was an environmentalist. An extreme, out there, radical person against the industrial machine. Does that mean that I'm just like the Unabomber because I buy organic milk? Hardly. There are eco-terrorists and then there are the little old ladies like my MIL who use canvas bags at the grocery store so they don't waste plastic. I can differentiate between the two extremes.

Maybe you don't like that the group is calling themselves Christian. Maybe the article is linking together increased Christian activites in a variety of manifestations that you don't think are part of a bigger picture. I don't know. I know it has gotten a lot more conservative here in the pulpit, and so it doesn't surprise me that some people are getting more radical.

I'm going to look for this documentary. I'd like to hear what the filmmakers and the folks running the camp have to say.

I don't know what to say about the Littlest Crusader Jammies. Do you think they come with feet so as to protect the toes?

 

[Uncle Remus]

I don't know what to say about the Littlest Crusader Jammies. Do you think they come with feet so as to protect the toes?

Jesus will protect those tootsies.

 

[disneymom3]

I think the jammies are cute actually. For quite little kids of course. And I sure wouldn't make my kids wear them but I could see my boys who are 4 and 6 thinking they were rather a fun idea in correlation with the Bible vs.

As for this group, I get a much more cult-like feeling than anything else about them.

And I agree strongly with the devout vs extreme correction. I am devout, but no way would my kids be participating in anything like this. Church camp where you do crafts and have a bonfire and sing songs, sure, but not this.

 

[Free4Life11]

"It's like were warriors, only funner!"

Looks like a pretty whacked out camp. I'm a little scared.

But I do take issue with the "liberal feminist" who argues that Evangelical youth are inflexible. I am a PK who grew up going to Sunday School and church every week, summer Bible camp, retreats, and I still go to a church in my denomination (I would call it Evangelical). While I do believe that people who don't accept Christ will go to hell, I also think abortion and gay marriage SHOULD be allowed. I am able to separate my political and religious views.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

That is why extremist beliefs are so dangerous- because they separate ideologically from the religion itself, and become a movement unto themselves, unrestrained by the moral codes of the mainstream religion. Believers of these movements think that because they are morally superior to the people they view as against them, codes of morality do not apply in their case.

Well said! Upon watching the video again I see nothing going on in the "Jesus Camp" that indicates a separation from the moral and ethical standards of Christianity. (MAYBE the Bush poster thing -still trying to figure that one out) That Jesus Camp is a far cry from young Muslims bearing arms, any attempt at equivalency is just wrong.

 

[Kendra17]

Sure, they aren't taking up guns like the poor little Muslim kids we see on the news all the time, but this isn't too far away from that.

It's not too far away from that? Why do you think this? I met someone who stated this to me: "Fundamentalists aren't all the same. It's true Fundamentalist Christians might love to proselytize and they'll give you a headache. Fundamentalist Muslims, on the other hand, will just cut your head right off."

By the way, I wouldn't send my kids to this kind of camp and I don't like when people try to proselytize me. But do I think evangelical Christians are dangerous the same way devout fundamentalist Muslims are? That's ridiculous-- absolutely not.

 

[cardaway]

Well said! Upon watching the video again I see nothing going on in the "Jesus Camp" that indicates a separation from the moral and ethical standards of Christianity. (MAYBE the Bush poster thing -still trying to figure that one out) That Jesus Camp is a far cry from young Muslims bearing arms, any attempt at equivalency is just wrong.

Look no further for an example of an American being accepting of Christian extremism.

Same stuff, different players.

 

[Geoff_M]

I guess you're reading way more into the article than I am. Increased attendance at Christian colleges isn't spawning increasingly radical factions. It's just one part of the picture.

There's no need to read anything into it... it's there in black and white:

This camp is, by many accounts, a small — and perhaps extreme —

"Perhaps"??? The author's implication is that this militant endoctrination may not be so extreme within Christian youth groups in this country.

Young people are targeted through Christian music festivals, skateboard competitions and rodeos.

"Targeting" children usually isn't used in a positive sense. Ironically, if you watch the video, they don't say "targeted", they use a more neutral term: "reached"

If the story had been about the evangelical youth movement (and I'm not an evangelical) and used "Kids on Fire" as an example of the radical fringe of the movement, then I'd say all was "fair". But instead it uses "Kids on Fire" as the center piece of a discussion of the current state of Christian youth movement. To me that's as unfair and biased as my example using the Unabomber as the filter to view enivronmentalism through. I also find it odd that the author assumes that only "evangelicals" listen to Christian music or go to Christian colleges.

Feel free to watch the film... I'm not trying to talk anyone out of it. If I could catch a free showing of it, I'd probably watch it too. I think it's fair to say that I'd have theological differences with what's presented too.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Look no further for an example of an American being accepting of Christian extremism.

Same stuff, different players.

I do try to be an extreme Christian. To me its not worth being one if you aren't "extreme". I mean what's the alternative? Sitting on our ecclesial fluffy behinds and absorbing information about God but never being transformed by it or doing anything about it?

 

[cardaway]

I do try to be an extreme Christian. To me its not worth being one if you aren't "extreme". I mean what's the alternative? Sitting on our ecclesial fluffy behinds and absorbing information about God but never being transformed by it or doing anything about it?

That's exactly where they are coming from but you have plenty of not so nice things to say about their beliefs. Interesting.