Militant Jesus Camp?

[MzDiz]

We are generally on the same page here. Let me point out a couple of things...

1) I will have to grumblingly agree with the distinction between "devout" and "extreme". Seems like a sad waste of a good word like "extreme"

2) Regarding the assertion that there is nothing in Islam that advocates extremism in the form of violence, doesn't the Quran contain directives to kill infidels and engage in jihad? The Bible is empty of such things.

In the bible, God prefers to do his own killing - http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

My point is, both books are pretty violent, both books advocate things that are highly illegal, and both books have enough good in them for people to keep following their teachings. Everything else is just splitting hairs.

 

[Saxsoon]

My God, I can't believe someone would actually make their kids wear that, except for maybe Ned Flanders.

Heidy Ho Neighbor!

rofl

I am thinking of going to SMU (Southern Methodist University) and besides a 3000 dollar scholarship for Methodists, it seems to be a very secular school in that aspect. However it is down the street from the largest Methodist Church in the U.S.

I have gone to VBS from first to fifth grade, and helped out the past five-six years, and I can assure all of you, that that it is not that extreme. Just praising God, and talking about doing mission work in a world that needs help.

 

[singingpixie]

In the bible, God prefers to do his own killing - http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

My point is, both books are pretty violent, both books advocate things that are highly illegal, and both books have enough good in them for people to keep following their teachings. Everything else is just splitting hairs.

Thanks MzDiz, you beat me to it. We cannot judge either religion by splitting hairs and picking out individual verses to imply that the religion is violent. Each book is a product of the time it was written. No Christian or Jew that I know would advocate stoning a woman to death who had premarital sex, just as no Muslim I know would advocate killing infidels.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Here's a few more:

God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and *****” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

 

[lyeag]

I thought the whole video was pretty scary. I attended Catholic school, have been to VBS with friends at their churches, sent my kids to CCD, and I got scared watching that clip. If anything, it is a reminder that children are so very impressionable. I don't know definitively what is being taught there, but giving children partial information and lots of emotion is not a good formula.

 

[Charade]

And of course none of us have any people think the same kind of thoughts when they see the Disney stuff we wear, decorate our homes with, or send our kids to school in, right?

Off with their heads!!!

 

[Charade]

Yeah, I don't get it either. I get what you're saying though.

 

[Charade]

........

 

[Charade]

Extremism in either direction is dangerous.

See I don't see what was on that video as extreme. IMO, it's distorted. Extremely distorted. But I would characterize someone who strictly adhered to the parts in the Koran that advocate violence against non-believers as an extremist. They should just skip over that part.

 

[Charade]

Thanks MzDiz, you beat me to it. We cannot judge either religion by splitting hairs and picking out individual verses to imply that the religion is violent. Each book is a product of the time it was written. No Christian or Jew that I know would advocate stoning a woman to death who had premarital sex, just as no Muslim I know would advocate killing infidels.

But the point is that quite a few more Muslims believe that than do Christians. Christians have moved past that literal directive. It's like the old blue laws that say you can't bring a cow to church on Sunday. It's still on the books but no one is going to be arrested for it.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2456227

What was that? Worshipping at a picture of the president? What?

I wish I could tell these kids that if someone isn't a Christian, chances are they have heard about it and decided they arent' interested, making them annoying. No need to get themselves killed over my eternal soul. I have a religion, thanks.

I remember my son coming home when he was in the fourth grade, telling me that another student was asking him if he knew Jesus, and grilling him about his faith. DS told him to stop and the kid went on to tell him that he'd be burning in hell. I wondered then where these kids come from, now I know.

For very devout Christians, this may warm your cockles, but as a non-Christian, it scares me. Sure, they aren't taking up guns like the poor little Muslim kids we see on the news all the time, but this isn't too far away from that.

So, would you send your kid to this kind of camp? To smash things, scream, and writhe at the foot of a Bush poster? Does this scare you? Does it send the wrong message about Christianity? Do you agree with it?

Inquiring minds, and what not...

when i was younger i went to a Catholic School. not by choice, may i add.

i remember that everything from rolling your eyes to kissing a boy were sins and if you didn't repent for them that you would burn in hell.

and people wonder why i don't like organized religions now.

 

[Charade]

Here's a few more:

God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and *****” (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

So what does it say in the New Testament?

 

[Aidensmom]

See I don't see what was on that video as extreme. IMO, it's distorted. Extremely distorted. But I would characterize someone who strictly adhered to the parts in the Koran that advocate violence against non-believers as an extremist. They should just skip over that part.

What to me is extreme is for one thing the worshipping Bush thing...I don't know if the media misrepresented this, but if even if they did, what does Christianity have to do with politics? I do understand that religious beliefs may influence political beliefs, but worshipping a politician is idol worship.

For another, having a child the age of some quoted, my child is NOT able to fully understand what death is. It is not appropriate to teach him right now about dying for God.

This is posted by someone whose child's favorite book is his Children's Bible. I am in no way saying that it is dangerous to teach a child to have tremendous faith in God, but I do find it scary to teach children things they don't completely understand, and I trust no one who uses politics to teach religious beliefs.

 

[Uncle Remus]

So what does it say in the New Testament?

How 'bout you google that one for us?
Thanks.

 

[Amity 3]

ahh, the new testament... a revised version of killing and intolerance.

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed

For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

ahh, the new testament... a revised version of killing and intolerance.

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed

For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And the point is....

 

[Uncle Remus]

ahh, the new testament... a revised version of killing and intolerance.

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed

For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine

And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them

And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Sounds like more killin' to me

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Interesting NT passages, however no books and verses. I believe in many cases where death is mentioned it is related to a spiritual death rather than death, death. Although in the end a spritual death will lead to death in a hot, firey place according to the bible. My point is, that death doesn't always mean physical death.

 

[cardaway]

And the point is....

That anybody who says one holy book is less violent than the other is not telling the truth.

It's amazing how many folks on this thread are saying this group is OK but are also the ones warning about what fanatical Muslims are saying. It's the same damn thing.

 

[singingpixie]

That anybody who says one holy book is less violent than the other is not telling the truth.

It's amazing how many folks on this thread are saying this group is OK but are also the ones warning about what fanatical Muslims are saying. It's the same damn thing.

Right- there is equal fodder for extremists in both religions- but that doesn't mean that extremists are representing either religion correctly, they are taking things out of context. I think what people fail to grasp is that extremist Muslims are as rare as extremist Christians-- it's just that in the West we know tons of mainstream, devout Christians who are not extremist, but we don't know many mainstream Muslims, so it is common to view the religion itself based upon the extremists who act in the name of Islam.