Might have realized a VP won't work for us...?

[gelatoni fan]

Not sure why prices being higher is surprising. Prices have gone up everywhere.
Also not surprising that the Hyatt House is going to be popular and expensive. A washer and dryer in the room is going to attract a lot of people that just want to travel Japan with a carryon.

For many years before the pandemic, hotel prices were basically flat in Japan even as they steadily increased elsewhere in the world.
As someone who wasn't alive to travel to Japan in the 70s and early 80s, inflation like this is basically unprecedented.

The Courtyards in Tokyo have doubled in price in terms of JPY while the price of the Courtyards in Anaheim near Disneyland only increased about 20% over the same period. The Courtyards in Hong Kong cost about 10% more than they did in 2018 while Hyatts in Hong Kong are actually now cheaper than they were in 2018. The price increases for western chain hotels in Tokyo are really in a league of their own.

I also don't even think Hyatt originally expected the Hyatt House to have demand like it does. It was planned as a category 3 with opening prices around 200 USD per night but very quickly settled into over 300 USD per night and insufficient award availability as a category 4.

But rather than surprise, I'd say I'm experiencing mild frustration that I can't find a Hyatt or Marriott in Tokyo for less than 200 USD a night anymore.

 

[DCLMP]

For many years before the pandemic, hotel prices were basically flat in Japan even as they steadily increased elsewhere in the world.
As someone who wasn't alive to travel to Japan in the 70s and early 80s, inflation like this is basically unprecedented.

The Courtyards in Tokyo have doubled in price in terms of JPY while the price of the Courtyards in Anaheim near Disneyland only increased about 20% over the same period. The Courtyards in Hong Kong cost about 10% more than they did in 2018 while Hyatts in Hong Kong are actually now cheaper than they were in 2018. The price increases for western chain hotels in Tokyo are really in a league of their own.

I also don't even think Hyatt originally expected the Hyatt House to have demand like it does. It was planned as a category 3 with opening prices around 200 USD per night but very quickly settled into over 300 USD per night and insufficient award availability as a category 4.

But rather than surprise, I'd say I'm experiencing mild frustration that I can't find a Hyatt or Marriott in Tokyo for less than 200 USD a night anymore.

It's hard to impossible in any big city in the US too. I'm not seeing that change anytime soon.

I don't think I'm looking too early. I was pricing out November back in January and prices were a lot lower. I'm not expecting any big price drops.

 

[Flossbolna]

Were getting in around 5pm, but the hotel were staying at in Tokyo is 350 a night. It seems like a waste to spend that getting to the hotel around 8 and being jet lagged. I do the same thing flying to WDW we always stay at a cheap hotel around the airport the first night.
It's very different than flying to Europe where you leave at night and arrive before noon. I've never taken a long haul flight that left at 1130am. I'm not sure I'll sleep at all. I'm thinking I'll be ready to crash as soon as we get to hotel. At least it will be nighttime and I won't have to force myself to stay up all day.
I will keep checking prices as it gets closer. I'm high maintenance when it comes to hotels. I need a gym, laundry, bar, restaurant...so yeah I'm going with the American brand. I'm also taking my 19 year old son so two beds and a bigger room is a must.

We stayed at an airport hotel in Narita, too. We think it’s more relaxing. We stayed at the Hilton on arrival and the ANA Crown Plaza before we left. Both were decent, but rather old. As always in Japan, spotless clean, but seemed like a trip back to 80s when the hotels were built… Both have convenience stores which fed us. And both had nice breakfasts, but the Hilton one was the most amazing one of our whole trip! So many choices of different Asian food. It was free for us as we have Hilton Gold through a credit card.

 

[DCLMP]

We stayed at an airport hotel in Narita, too. We think it’s more relaxing. We stayed at the Hilton on arrival and the ANA Crown Plaza before we left. Both were decent, but rather old. As always in Japan, spotless clean, but seemed like a trip back to 80s when the hotels were built… Both have convenience stores which fed us. And both had nice breakfasts, but the Hilton one was the most amazing one of our whole trip! So many choices of different Asian food. It was free for us as we have Hilton Gold through a credit card.

We will probably stay at the Hilton. I guess they busses that take you to the Disney resorts from the airport. I haven't totally ruled out a two night package. Packages released for February so I'm pricing things out and thinking about it.

 

[DCLMP]

I almost booked a VP until saw it had to be paid for in full. I'm not used to paying things in full this far out. All my plans are still a work in progress and subject to change. If I do decide to book a package. I'll have to think like I do a cruise and work my plans around it.

It does seem like there is an advantage to a package with the FS unlimited rides. I'd probably do Toy story resort.

 

[DCLMP]

Narrator: they did.

We were even able to get an FS room (I went with the cheapest I saw to keep it simple - Bay Area Superior, also assumed they also wouldn't be as popular due to the non-view which might increase my chances), so I guess we'll be paying more after all! It ended up being another $200 to get the as-many-rides-as-you-want package over the regular 2 night, and my husband asked why the heck we wouldn't just do it then. So... booked.

Now to sleep, and hope the next time we go it can be far more chill booking like it has been on our previous trips.

I was looking at that package with all the rides for two days. It seems like a good way to maximize the time. I've never been, but this seems like a good way to do it since I don't want to commit a huge portion of the vacation to Disney. If you choose no restaurants it lowers the price. I don't think I want to commit to any dining reservations.

Did you book Toy Story. I've been pricing things out for 2 days and there seems to be plenty of availability.

 

[Kwami]

I almost booked a VP until saw it had to be paid for in full. I'm not used to paying things in full this far out. All my plans are still a work in progress and subject to change. If I do decide to book a package. I'll have to think like I do a cruise and work my plans around it.

It does seem like there is an advantage to a package with the FS unlimited rides. I'd probably do Toy story resort.

Fortunately, you can get a refund until shortly before the package begins without any trouble.

 

[AquaDame]

I was looking at that package with all the rides for two days. It seems like a good way to maximize the time. I've never been, but this seems like a good way to do it since I don't want to commit a huge portion of the vacation to Disney. If you choose no restaurants it lowers the price. I don't think I want to commit to any dining reservations.

Did you book Toy Story. I've been pricing things out for 2 days and there seems to be plenty of availability.

We ended up splurging for Fantasy Springs in the end as it was available when I went to book and not a crazy amount more. I *think* this means we could technically buy a Fantasy Springs Magic pass for our checkout day as the package doesn't have a ticket for that day, but I don't think we will need it. We'll probably buy a Disneyland ticket on Klook since we are going to miss most of day 1 on the package and I'll likely want more time there. FS actually was available for a couple days... but don't tell my husband. I had told him we had to stay up until 11pm to book it because it sounded necessary...

We were both on a different computer in case one timed out - he went for the regular 2 night VP and I went for the all-you-can-ride. In the end he got through first but I was also successful. He said it would be worth the $190 difference between the two packages. By the time the refund posted we got a free $73 back due to the exchange rate changing in those couple of days... sometimes life is truly weirder than fiction. Almost makes me wish I'd waited longer to cancel it as the yen is still going higher...in this extreme case I suspect paying in full early will work to our advantage. We lucked out on two trips to Japan this year with them occurring during big dips though so maybe I'm wrong and this one will even us out if it drops more...

Like you, we skip sit down meals, and didn't book any extra dining at all since they charge you per person which is not how we tend to eat. We usually split entrees so we can have interesting snacks and we won't need to add on beverages since we have a beverage ticket as part of the package. I almost booked Royal Banquet of Arrendelle but it was actually MORE than just buying one of the pies and a drink? Maybe I am missing something here but it seems like you pay more just to know you can go at a certain time. Honestly I think we prefer the other counter service options at DS based on what is on the menus at the moment...

 

[DCLMP]

Fortunately, you can get a refund until shortly before the package begins without any trouble.

Yeah I did see that. I'm just trying to get my trip figured out so I can lock down my Disney dates. It seems like you could get a lot done going that route. I've heard crowds are pretty bad in Japan. I'm not sure how accurate that is.

There is not a huge difference in price between that package and the one where you can pick a few past passes and get three day tickets. I'm not sure what is the best option.

 

[DCLMP]

We ended up splurging for Fantasy Springs in the end as it was available when I went to book and not a crazy amount more. I *think* this means we could technically buy a Fantasy Springs Magic pass for our checkout day as the package doesn't have a ticket for that day, but I don't think we will need it. We'll probably buy a Disneyland ticket on Klook since we are going to miss most of day 1 on the package and I'll likely want more time there. FS actually was available for a couple days... but don't tell my husband. I had told him we had to stay up until 11pm to book it because it sounded necessary...

We were both on a different computer in case one timed out - he went for the regular 2 night VP and I went for the all-you-can-ride. In the end he got through first but I was also successful. He said it would be worth the $190 difference between the two packages. By the time the refund posted we got a free $73 back due to the exchange rate changing in those couple of days... sometimes life is truly weirder than fiction. Almost makes me wish I'd waited longer to cancel it as the yen is still going higher...in this extreme case I suspect paying in full early will work to our advantage. We lucked out on two trips to Japan this year with them occurring during big dips though so maybe I'm wrong and this one will even us out if it drops more...

Like you, we skip sit down meals, and didn't book any extra dining at all since they charge you per person which is not how we tend to eat. We usually split entrees so we can have interesting snacks and we won't need to add on beverages since we have a beverage ticket as part of the package. I almost booked Royal Banquet of Arrendelle but it was actually MORE than just buying one of the pies and a drink? Maybe I am missing something here but it seems like you pay more just to know you can go at a certain time. Honestly I think we prefer the other counter service options at DS based on what is on the menus at the moment...

I wish the second day of tickets was the checkout day. I'm sure they did it that way because they know people will buy extra tickets on that day. That's interesting on the refund. The dollar is declining right now and every time I check prices it's gone up a couple of dollars.

 

[Kwami]

I wish the second day of tickets was the checkout day. I'm sure they did it that way because they know people will buy extra tickets on that day. That's interesting on the refund. The dollar is declining right now and every time I check prices it's gone up a couple of dollars.

Yeah, the USD/JPY conversion rate was looking really great while I was planning my upcoming trip. Then, the Bank of Japan went and increased interest rates and caused a big selloff. Now, the USD is getting weaker. Boo!

It's still pretty good compared to historical rates, but meh.

 

[DCLMP]

Yeah, the USD/JPY conversion rate was looking really great while I was planning my upcoming trip. Then, the Bank of Japan went and increased interest rates and caused a big selloff. Now, the USD is getting weaker. Boo!

It's still pretty good compared to historical rates, but meh.

The American chains will adjust and the prices will stay the same. Hyatt lowered the price in yen and the price is the same. The Japanese hotels will cost more Disney included.

 

[DCLMP]

I booked the Toy Story 2 night package with the unlimited rides. That was a pain in the butt. I spent 30 minutes on the phone with chase. I didn't want to try a different a card. I wanted to use the one the gives me the best travel points. They were able to fix it and it went through. Spending the night before and after at Tokyo bay Hyatt with points. That should be a quick cab ride.

It's really not a huge price difference between the hotels, but for two nights when we will be in the parks all day I figured I'd just go with the least expensive.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Tokyo Disney now opens at 9 instead of 8 which makes it easier to arrive before the crowd.

FWIW this is outdated. At least when it comes to right now. We just got back from Japan and Wednesday 10/16 DisneySea opened for regular guests at 8:30, 10/17 at 8:25 and Disneyland 10/18 at 8:45. The crowd for Disneyland was already HUGE when we arrived at 6:40am. We arrived at 6:50 for DisneySea on 10/17 and just before 7am on 10/16 for DisneySea and the crowds were already there. You're correct that official park opening time is 9am, but frequent reports are they open earlier. It's Halloween season so that can add to it but with Fantasy Springs opening I've heard consistently that park opening can occur earlier.

 

[gelatoni fan]

FWIW this is outdated. At least when it comes to right now. We just got back from Japan and Wednesday 10/16 DisneySea opened for regular guests at 8:30, 10/17 at 8:25 and Disneyland 10/18 at 8:45. The crowd for Disneyland was already HUGE when we arrived at 6:40am. We arrived at 6:50 for DisneySea on 10/17 and just before 7am on 10/16 for DisneySea and the crowds were already there. You're correct that official park opening time is 9am, but frequent reports are they open earlier. It's Halloween season so that can add to it but with Fantasy Springs opening I've heard consistently that park opening can occur earlier.

It's not outdated but I didn't include the detail about the gates opening earlier in that post. The gates have always opened up to 45 minutes earlier than scheduled opening time depending on predicted crowd levels.

I wasn't trying to imply when gates would open but put that to explain why the Hyatt Regency isn't as bad as before for Tokyo Disney:

If my memory is correct, there was a time period when the Hyatt started breakfast at 7AM despite the park scheduled opening being 8AM and gates actually opening at 7:30AM. The first shuttle from the Hyatt would drop you off after the gates opened. It would also sometimes be so full that some people waiting in line for it couldn't get on. These people would have to wait 1/2 an hour for the next shuttle.

Now, the Hyatt starts breakfast at 6:30 with the shuttles starting at 6:50 and running every 20 minutes in the morning. The park official opening is at 9AM so there's enough time to get to the parks for a 8:30 gate opening even if you miss the first bus. If you stay at the Hyatt, you likely won't get on Frozen but you should be able to get a decent rope drop for one of the priority pass attractions.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It's not outdated but I didn't include the detail about the gates opening earlier in that post. The gates have always opened up to 45 minutes earlier than scheduled opening time depending on predicted crowd levels.

I wasn't trying to imply when gates would open but put that to explain why the Hyatt Regency isn't as bad as before for Tokyo Disney:

If my memory is correct, there was a time period when the Hyatt started breakfast at 7AM despite the park scheduled opening being 8AM and gates actually opening at 7:30AM. The first shuttle from the Hyatt would drop you off after the gates opened. It would also sometimes be so full that some people waiting in line for it couldn't get on. These people would have to wait 1/2 an hour for the next shuttle.

Now, the Hyatt starts breakfast at 6:30 with the shuttles starting at 6:50 and running every 20 minutes in the morning. The park official opening is at 9AM so there's enough time to get to the parks for a 8:30 gate opening even if you miss the first bus. If you stay at the Hyatt, you likely won't get on Frozen but you should be able to get a decent rope drop for one of the priority pass attractions.

My outdated remark was in response to you saying "instead of 8 which makes it easier to arrive before the crowd." The crowds are there before 7am, frankly they are there in enough numbers before 6:30am and you were talking to a poster (and you mentioned it yourself about the shuttle) who at that time was considering staying off-site with a shuttle that would take a while to get there. My point being you're not going to arrive before the crowd with the opening time now 9am. You would in fact be late to the parks if you got there after 7am. Now that PP wasn't as concerned about park touring they were more nonchalant about TDR but if you're thinking about DPA or the 40th Anniversary Pass (which is still presently going on) being there early is important. And if you want to be in Fantasy Springs you need to. Peter Pan lasted a while for standby pass but both Frozen and Rapunzel did not nor for DPA. Toy Story Mania lasted the longest DPA but they also oversold it and the line for DPA after the morning was much longer than it should have been. We attempted to rope drop Toy Story on a Wednesday and was in line physically for that ride at 8:55am and it was about 80mins before we got on the ride. My husband rope dropped ToT the next morning but was physically in the line at 8:45am and was closer to the front; they didn't open the attraction until 9am but by the time he got off the wait time had soared to 110 mins. Overall we found the wait times to be accurate, they don't inflate them. We got lucky with Rapunzel standby pass using it in the morning because the line after mid-morning for that attraction for the rest of the day for the two days we were there snaked throughout Fantasy Springs, I saw wait times listed as 80-120mins often enough using a Standby Pass for that attraction.

The Hilton Tokyo Bay starts breakfast at 6:30am, it's too late of a start time to make usage of it and that's with being on site. Bayside station opens at 6:30am presently and we got there a few mins before that and had a long line awaiting the gates to open. For our Disneyland day (the one where we went to Bayside station before it opened) we opted out of the hotel breakfast getting some food the night before at Lawson's in the hotel and thank goodness we did OMG would we have been in such bad shape had we not, the sheer amount of people who were already there at the gates, they had to take people in groups over to the security area to be let in in stages.

The original OP is thinking about February and that may be a different crowd time, but since Fantasy Springs has opened up so have the crowds come. I'm just trying to say I would be prepared to be early if you're trying to make usage of your park time, if you're not as much into that you can go slower.

 

[gelatoni fan]

My outdated remark was in response to you saying "instead of 8 which makes it easier to arrive before the crowd." The crowds are there before 7am, frankly they are there in enough numbers before 6:30am and you were talking to a poster (and you mentioned it yourself about the shuttle) who at that time was considering staying off-site with a shuttle that would take a while to get there. My point being you're not going to arrive before the crowd with the opening time now 9am. You would in fact be late to the parks if you got there after 7am. Now that PP wasn't as concerned about park touring they were more nonchalant about TDR but if you're thinking about DPA or the 40th Anniversary Pass (which is still presently going on) being there early is important. And if you want to be in Fantasy Springs you need to. Peter Pan lasted a while for standby pass but both Frozen and Rapunzel did not nor for DPA. Toy Story Mania lasted the longest DPA but they also oversold it and the line for DPA after the morning was much longer than it should have been. We attempted to rope drop Toy Story on a Wednesday and was in line physically for that ride at 8:55am and it was about 80mins before we got on the ride. My husband rope dropped ToT the next morning but was physically in the line at 8:45am and was closer to the front; they didn't open the attraction until 9am but by the time he got off the wait time had soared to 110 mins. Overall we found the wait times to be accurate, they don't inflate them. We got lucky with Rapunzel standby pass using it in the morning because the line after mid-morning for that attraction for the rest of the day for the two days we were there snaked throughout Fantasy Springs, I saw wait times listed as 80-120mins often enough using a Standby Pass for that attraction.

The Hilton Tokyo Bay starts breakfast at 6:30am, it's too late of a start time to make usage of it and that's with being on site. Bayside station opens at 6:30am presently and we got there a few mins before that and had a long line awaiting the gates to open. For our Disneyland day (the one where we went to Bayside station before it opened) we opted out of the hotel breakfast getting some food the night before at Lawson's in the hotel and thank goodness we did OMG would we have been in such bad shape had we not, the sheer amount of people who were already there at the gates, they had to take people in groups over to the security area to be let in in stages.

The original OP is thinking about February and that may be a different crowd time, but since Fantasy Springs has opened up so have the crowds come. I'm just trying to say I would be prepared to be early if you're trying to make usage of your park time, if you're not as much into that you can go slower.

In this case, it's not a matter of being outdated but of having a different idea of what it means to beat the crowds. I don't expect non-Japanese tourists to arrive before the Resort Line but if someone really wanted to beat the crowds according to your definition, then they should plan to arrive before 5AM when the first Keiyo Line arrives. That is sometimes necessary for merchandise releases and to get on Frozen without Happy Entry.

Most foreign visitors who really care about rides seem to prefer paying for DPA over waiting for a long time to get into the park. While I have also on occasion skipped breakfast and arrived at the park entrance before the Disney Resort Line started running, it's not something I expect most people to do.

Ride wait times from my visits this month and last month felt similar to wait times last September. Any increase in crowds from Fantasy Springs seems to be absorbed by the additional capacity of Fantasy Springs. I would expect ride wait times for next February to be similar to wait times for this February.

DPA and Standby Pass for everything in Fantasy Springs except Frozen have been lasting until around 9:30 lately so there isn't really a need to arrive super early for them. It is true that Fantasy Springs attractions have slightly higher chances of having long waits in the afternoon but it's not always the case. One morning earlier this month, I waited 70 minutes for Peter Pan but it was consistently between 10 and 30 minutes in the afternoon.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In this case, it's not a matter of being outdated but of having a different idea of what it means to beat the crowds. I don't expect non-Japanese tourists to arrive before the Resort Line but if someone really wanted to beat the crowds according to your definition, then they should plan to arrive before 5AM when the first Keiyo Line arrives. That is sometimes necessary for merchandise releases and to get on Frozen without Happy Entry.

Most foreign visitors who really care about rides seem to prefer paying for DPA over waiting for a long time to get into the park. While I have also on occasion skipped breakfast and arrived at the park entrance before the Disney Resort Line started running, it's not something I expect most people to do.

Ride wait times from my visits this month and last month felt similar to wait times last September. Any increase in crowds from Fantasy Springs seems to be absorbed by the additional capacity of Fantasy Springs. I would expect ride wait times for next February to be similar to wait times for this February.

DPA and Standby Pass for everything in Fantasy Springs except Frozen have been lasting until around 9:30 lately so there isn't really a need to arrive super early for them. It is true that Fantasy Springs attractions have slightly higher chances of having long waits in the afternoon but it's not always the case. One morning earlier this month, I waited 70 minutes for Peter Pan but it was consistently between 10 and 30 minutes in the afternoon.

I'm pretty sure you're trying to argue semantics here of which there's no other definition of speaking about both getting to the parks early and beating the crowds. If you were attempting to use your definition that would be you'd stroll into the parks well after enough after opening thus not being part of the opening crowds. But if you're discussing the time of a hotel's breakfast, the time of the first shuttles, how long it takes to use them and the opening time of the park being an hour later so you can beat the crowds then no you're not going to be making sense here because the crowds are already there.

I wasn't making a point about historical wait times as in saying they are longer than before. Research shows people don't mind waiting in the TDR. But I spoke about that because you mentioned rope dropping an attraction. If you're not there in the opening part of it you're going to wait for quite a while. We were in line before technical park opening like I mentioned for Toy Story and still waited 80 mins. The crowds I'm speaking to are to get into the park themselves, the security component and the tapping into the tapstiles because that's all that is the point of talking about the stuff that was mentioned. And because of Fantasy Springs opening people are showing up in order to increase their odds of getting in there regardless of one's interest in them they are part of the crowds at opening.

As far as wait times in Fantasy Springs I was specifically speaking about Rapunzel which seemed to pull the more popularity for STANDBY over Frozen. I do not know why but Rapunzel was super high on waits and the lines snaked throughout the land actually two people wide all the way to the exit both afternoons and evenings. Peter Pan didn't have this issue nor did Frozen. On Wednesday being in the parks just after 8:30am the earliest available time for Frozen was at 6:55pm with Believe Sea of Dreams at 7:20pm that's why it was available as you couldn't do both realistically.

We don't really need to go back and forth. I gave my experience from last week. What someone's take on how they want to tour the parks I made sure to include that it will depend because you don't have to be there as early as we are if you're not all that interested in the rides. Enjoy your evening

 

[DCLMP]

In this case, it's not a matter of being outdated but of having a different idea of what it means to beat the crowds. I don't expect non-Japanese tourists to arrive before the Resort Line but if someone really wanted to beat the crowds according to your definition, then they should plan to arrive before 5AM when the first Keiyo Line arrives. That is sometimes necessary for merchandise releases and to get on Frozen without Happy Entry.

Most foreign visitors who really care about rides seem to prefer paying for DPA over waiting for a long time to get into the park. While I have also on occasion skipped breakfast and arrived at the park entrance before the Disney Resort Line started running, it's not something I expect most people to do.

Ride wait times from my visits this month and last month felt similar to wait times last September. Any increase in crowds from Fantasy Springs seems to be absorbed by the additional capacity of Fantasy Springs. I would expect ride wait times for next February to be similar to wait times for this February.

DPA and Standby Pass for everything in Fantasy Springs except Frozen have been lasting until around 9:30 lately so there isn't really a need to arrive super early for them. It is true that Fantasy Springs attractions have slightly higher chances of having long waits in the afternoon but it's not always the case. One morning earlier this month, I waited 70 minutes for Peter Pan but it was consistently between 10 and 30 minutes in the afternoon.

I have no idea about crowds in Japan. I wasn't going to make the parks a priority on our two week first time trip to Japan, but the 2 day unlimited express passes seemed like it would be worth it too knock it out in two days. If I had 3 to 4 days for the parks I wouldn't have spent the money on it.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I'm pretty sure you're trying to argue semantics here of which there's no other definition of speaking about both getting to the parks early and beating the crowds. If you were attempting to use your definition that would be you'd stroll into the parks well after enough after opening thus not being part of the opening crowds. But if you're discussing the time of a hotel's breakfast, the time of the first shuttles, how long it takes to use them and the opening time of the park being an hour later so you can beat the crowds then no you're not going to be making sense here because the crowds are already there.

I wasn't making a point about historical wait times as in saying they are longer than before. Research shows people don't mind waiting in the TDR. But I spoke about that because you mentioned rope dropping an attraction. If you're not there in the opening part of it you're going to wait for quite a while. We were in line before technical park opening like I mentioned for Toy Story and still waited 80 mins. The crowds I'm speaking to are to get into the park themselves, the security component and the tapping into the tapstiles because that's all that is the point of talking about the stuff that was mentioned. And because of Fantasy Springs opening people are showing up in order to increase their odds of getting in there regardless of one's interest in them they are part of the crowds at opening.

As far as wait times in Fantasy Springs I was specifically speaking about Rapunzel which seemed to pull the more popularity for STANDBY over Frozen. I do not know why but Rapunzel was super high on waits and the lines snaked throughout the land actually two people wide all the way to the exit both afternoons and evenings. Peter Pan didn't have this issue nor did Frozen. On Wednesday being in the parks just after 8:30am the earliest available time for Frozen was at 6:55pm with Believe Sea of Dreams at 7:20pm that's why it was available as you couldn't do both realistically.

We don't really need to go back and forth. I gave my experience from last week. What someone's take on how they want to tour the parks I made sure to include that it will depend because you don't have to be there as early as we are if you're not all that interested in the rides. Enjoy your evening

I think it's now cleared up.

When I wrote about the crowd, I meant the crowd that would rush towards priority pass attractions. The underlying assumption was that foreign visitors considering a hotel without Happy Entry already decided that they wouldn't rush to one of the DPA attractions such as Toy Story Mania or even Tower of Terror. Therefore, the crowds to get in to the park and the crowds rushing to attractions with DPA are not the relevant crowds. I can now see how this assumption being incorrect and my original sentence not being specific enough led to confusion.

In Fantasy Springs, I actually find the lines to be the longest for Peter Pan with the lines for Rapunzel usually being shorter on the days I've gone. Breakdowns can cause waits to suddenly get crazy when the ride comes back up so there's definitely a luck component to wait times in Fantasy Springs. I think Rapunzel is usually the second ride to run out of Standby Pass and Prmier Access but there's always days when something less typical happens.