Michelle Duggar miscarries

[dngnb8]

The technical term is Spontaneous Abortion. Miscarriage, still birth are all slangs

 

[Coconut36]

Is it still a miscarriage then or is that a stillbirth? My Grandmother had a stillbirth and she grieved all her life. I am sure miscarriages are just as painful, but the fact remains that until the baby is out, it is not a death (legally).

In any event, I do believe that Michelle is devastated. There is no question in my mind about that. My point was that whatever happened, she did not CAUSE the death of a baby (and, frankly did not CAUSE the miscarriage either).

I agree. I think stillbirth tends to be used by people when a delivery occurs and the child is not breathing at birth (and the child is near or at a point of viability..these days that can be around 24 weeks gestation). A miscarriage is often used when the baby passes prior to any feasible point of viability.

The poster claiming that they "caused" it because of her previous pregnancies might want to educate themselves further. When a quote indicates that cause of MOST miscarriages is a chromosome issue that means most miscarriages. As other posters have pointed out science would disagree with them.

Also the issues like incompetent cervical, placenta issue or uterine problem (some other possible causes of a later loss) would clearly require medical attention and intervention and the Duggars would not have shown up for a regular appointment to find the baby passed if it was one of those situations. If the baby had a heart defect (another possible reason) it would NOT be something the Duggars caused by having a large number of pregnancies either. To point the finger at them as having caused it is ridiculous to me and I am someone who does agree with the choice to have so many children but I by no means think what occurred is their fault or something they did to themselves or the baby as it could happen to anyone who had zero to X number of kids.

 

[punkin]

I agree. I think stillbirth tends to be used by people when a delivery occurs and the child is not breathing at birth (and the child is near or at a point of viability..these days that can be around 24 weeks gestation). A miscarriage is often used when the baby passes prior to any feasible point of viability.

The poster claiming that they "caused" it because of her previous pregnancies might want to educate themselves further. When a quote indicates that cause of MOST miscarriages is a chromosome issue that means most miscarriages. As other posters have pointed out science would disagree with them.

Also the issues like incompetent cervical, placenta issue or uterine problem (some other possible causes of a later loss) would clearly require medical attention and intervention and the Duggars would not have shown up for a regular appointment to find the baby passed if it was one of those situations. If the baby had a heart defect (another possible reason) it would NOT be something the Duggars caused by having a large number of pregnancies either. To point the finger at them as having caused it is ridiculous to me and I am someone who does agree with the choice to have so many children but I by no means think what occurred is their fault or something they did to themselves or the baby as it could happen to anyone who had zero to X number of kids.

I don't agree with their choice and I think continuing to have babies at this point is irresponsible (to herself-she could die, her husband-widowed, her children-orphaned), but in my mind, causation means she actively did something to cause the problems with this fetus. Other than getting pregnant and hoping for the best against all odds (and the odds are stacked against her based on age, history of pre-eclampsia, and weak uterus due to so many babies) I don't think she's at fault.

 

[Aisling]

I think when you have used your uterus like a revolving door for 23 years some things are just obvious.

Sorry, this is funny.

It strikes me in their marriage or faith that he makes the decisions/rules things and she it to be dutiful and follow along happily.

JimBob said on one of the shows that it's up to Michelle how many children they have. Did he mean it's her decision or if it's up to her body?

The baby is dead. Is it possible to have a thread that doesn't degrade into something else? Can't we just mourn the death of a baby? Is it really that hard?

I do believe it's a death, but honestly I'm not mourning because I don't feel the emotional connection to the Duggars. It is sad, though. I think my laughing at the "revolving door" comment may be degrading to the thread, but I mean no disrespect to the Duggars.

 

[Coconut36]

Sorry, this is funny.





JimBob said on one of the shows that it's up to Michelle how many children they have. Did he mean it's her decision or if it's up to her body?






I do believe it's a death, but honestly I'm not mourning because I don't feel the emotional connection to the Duggars. It is sad, though. I think my laughing at the "revolving door" comment may be degrading to the thread, but I mean no disrespect to the Duggars.

Good question..I would assume he meant her body not her personal choice based on what I have heard of their belief system. I don't know though

 

[CurlyGirl]

JimBob said on one of the shows that it's up to Michelle how many children they have. Did he mean it's her decision or if it's up to her body?

Hold the phone ... I thought they said it was up to God to decide how many children they'd have.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Hold the phone ... I thought they said it was up to God to decide how many children they'd have.

I've heard him say that too on the show in the past. That it's up to Michelle. But it makes sense if he's talking about her physical body not her mind.

Honestly, I think he's the driving force behind all these pregnancies. On one of the recent shows, he was talking with the father of that other huge family. Both he and the father were talking about how they have a lot of kids, how if you add both families up, they could more than fill the room, etc. Sounded pretty arrogant actually and I was surprised they didn't high five each other with their man parts.

 

[Mermaid02]

Sorry, this is funny.





JimBob said on one of the shows that it's up to Michelle how many children they have. Did he mean it's her decision or if it's up to her body?






I do believe it's a death, but honestly I'm not mourning because I don't feel the emotional connection to the Duggars. It is sad, though. I think my laughing at the "revolving door" comment may be degrading to the thread, but I mean no disrespect to the Duggars.

I was torn between revolving door and clown car....

 

[Aisling]

Hold the phone ... I thought they said it was up to God to decide how many children they'd have.

I know! I'll see if I can find it.

 

[snowy76]

Hold the phone ... I thought they said it was up to God to decide how many children they'd have.

He has said publicly that if/when Michelle wants to stop, they will. I forget if it was on the series or on one of the hour-long shows they did before the series.

 

[punkin]

I've heard him say that too on the show in the past. That it's up to Michelle. But it makes sense if he's talking about her physical body not her mind.

Honestly, I think he's the driving force behind all these pregnancies. On one of the recent shows, he was talking with the father of that other huge family. Both he and the father were talking about how they have a lot of kids, how if you add both families up, they could more than fill the room, etc. Sounded pretty arrogant actually and I was surprised they didn't high five each other with their man parts.

Yup. Jim Bob is one disgusting dude. The whole thing is sick and sad.

 

[Aisling]

I was torn between revolving door and clown car....

I'm glad you went with revolving door. Clown car is over used.

 

[Nancyg56]

For those of you who are saying that Michelle and Jim Bob shouldn't hold some responsibility for this, I have a question.

Her doctor told her never to have children again because of the genetic disease. She listened to her doctor but what if she hadn't? What if she had another baby and the baby was born with this disease and died?

Wouldn't my cousin and her husband hold some responsibility in what happened? She was flat out told never to have biological children again because the chance the baby would end up sick and die was 50%.

My sister works in a childrens hospital She is caring for children of one couple who continue to try to have a "normal" baby. so far they are 0 for 7. Yes. They have created 7 children....................yes I did say SEVEN children who have severe issues and these little babies are never going home. The couple could not care for them even if they were willing, the problems are that profound. I am appalled that despite right to choose, right to life I don't care what you call it, these people are allowed to continue to make babies who are so far from functional that only medical intervention is keeping them alive. I am not saying that I believe that any child should not have teh intervention necessary but I cannot understand the parents who just cannot accept that a + b is never going to = c for them so they continue to pretend their bodies are one gigantic science experiment that is going to come out right one time or another. In the meantime these little Babies are left behind like unwanted produce/

 

[skater]

mabye we are. I think there is a difference between judging someone's opinion to be incorrect or invalid and basing your entire opinion of them as a person on that.

Yes, I guess that's what I was saying. I also think that you can "judge" someone's opinion to be incorrect without sounding mean or derisive.

 

[Pigeon]

Thousands of women have miscarriages every day. I've had more than a few myself. Very few women have some bizarre need to make the miscarriage into yet another self-serving media circus.

Everything about these people sickens me.

 

[princessmom29]

I agree. I think stillbirth tends to be used by people when a delivery occurs and the child is not breathing at birth (and the child is near or at a point of viability..these days that can be around 24 weeks gestation). A miscarriage is often used when the baby passes prior to any feasible point of viability.

The poster claiming that they "caused" it because of her previous pregnancies might want to educate themselves further. When a quote indicates that cause of MOST miscarriages is a chromosome issue that means most miscarriages. As other posters have pointed out science would disagree with them.

Also the issues like incompetent cervical, placenta issue or uterine problem (some other possible causes of a later loss) would clearly require medical attention and intervention and the Duggars would not have shown up for a regular appointment to find the baby passed if it was one of those situations. If the baby had a heart defect (another possible reason) it would NOT be something the Duggars caused by having a large number of pregnancies either. To point the finger at them as having caused it is ridiculous to me and I am someone who does agree with the choice to have so many children but I by no means think what occurred is their fault or something they did to themselves or the baby as it could happen to anyone who had zero to X number of kids.

I DID NOT say they "caused" the miscarriage. They ARE however responsible for what happened becuase they KNEW going in that they were putting both mother nad baby at HUGE risk but chose to continue.

Did you read the studies I posted?
If not I will summarize.
The vast majority of miscarriages occur in the first trimester. Most of THOSE are due to chromosomal abnormalities. MOST pregnancies that make it into the second trimester DO NOT carry chromosomal abnormalities at all or carry those that are not fatal. The largest precentage of 2nd trimester miscarriages I have seen attributed to chromosomal abnormality is 25%. That would mean the 75% of them, the majority, are due to some other cause. A poster quoted one specific abnormality, Downs, that is more liley to result in a 2nd trimester miscarriage. There are literally THOUSANDS of other possible abnormalities, the vast majority of which result in FIRST TRIMESTER miscarriage. If you have a reliable study that says differently, please share.

Incontenet cervix, uterine window, scar tissue in the uterus, poor placential blood suppy ALL increase in incidence with number of previous pregnancies. Mivchelle was at greatly increased risk for ALL of these. ANY of these or none of them could be the cause of the miscarriage, but they KNEW gonig in that they were are sharply increased risk for all of them. Many of these would not even be detected until later in preganancy as the baby grows large enough for them to become an issue, and they can cause fetal death WITHOUT causing enough symptoms to lead the mothere to seek medical attention, particularly poor placental attachmet. If I had to guess, I would say that is the most likely culprit. It is just a guess however. The truth is that we will likely never know for sure.

 

[handinpocket]

I DID NOT say they "caused" the miscarriage. They ARE however responsible for what happened becuase they KNEW going in that they were putting both mother nad baby at HUGE risk but chose to continue.

Did you read the studies I posted?
If not I will summarize.
The vast majority of miscarriages occur in the first trimester. Most of THOSE are due to chromosomal abnormalities. MOST pregnancies that make it into the second trimester DO NOT carry chromosomal abnormalities at all or carry those that are not fatal. The largest precentage of 2nd trimester miscarriages I have seen attributed to chromosomal abnormality is 25%. That would mean the 75% of them, the majority, are due to some other cause. A poster quoted one specific abnormality, Downs, that is more liley to result in a 2nd trimester miscarriage. There are literally THOUSANDS of other possible abnormalities, the vast majority of which result in FIRST TRIMESTER miscarriage. If you have a reliable study that says differently, please share.

Incontenet cervix, uterine window, scar tissue in the uterus, poor placential blood suppy ALL increase in incidence with number of previous pregnancies. Mivchelle was at greatly increased risk for ALL of these. ANY of these or none of them could be the cause of the miscarriage, but they KNEW gonig in that they were are sharply increased risk for all of them. Many of these would not even be detected until later in preganancy as the baby grows large enough for them to become an issue, and they can cause fetal death WITHOUT causing enough symptoms to lead the mothere to seek medical attention, particularly poor placental attachmet. If I had to guess, I would say that is the most likely culprit. It is just a guess however. The truth is that we will likely never know for sure.

Where did you receive Doctorates degree? Yeah, thought so.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I DID NOT say they "caused" the miscarriage. They ARE however responsible for what happened becuase they KNEW going in that they were putting both mother nad baby at HUGE risk but chose to continue.

Did you read the studies I posted?
If not I will summarize.
The vast majority of miscarriages occur in the first trimester. Most of THOSE are due to chromosomal abnormalities. MOST pregnancies that make it into the second trimester DO NOT carry chromosomal abnormalities at all or carry those that are not fatal. The largest precentage of 2nd trimester miscarriages I have seen attributed to chromosomal abnormality is 25%. That would mean the 75% of them, the majority, are due to some other cause. A poster quoted one specific abnormality, Downs, that is more liley to result in a 2nd trimester miscarriage. There are literally THOUSANDS of other possible abnormalities, the vast majority of which result in FIRST TRIMESTER miscarriage. If you have a reliable study that says differently, please share.

Incontenet cervix, uterine window, scar tissue in the uterus, poor placential blood suppy ALL increase in incidence with number of previous pregnancies. Mivchelle was at greatly increased risk for ALL of these. ANY of these or none of them could be the cause of the miscarriage, but they KNEW gonig in that they were are sharply increased risk for all of them. Many of these would not even be detected until later in preganancy as the baby grows large enough for them to become an issue, and they can cause fetal death WITHOUT causing enough symptoms to lead the mothere to seek medical attention, particularly poor placental attachmet. If I had to guess, I would say that is the most likely culprit. It is just a guess however. The truth is that we will likely never know for sure.

You seem hell bent on stating that she was at an increased risk due to number of pregnancies....

The OB on the Today show (can't remember her credentials but she teaches at a medical school), when pressed by Ann Curry who was practically insisting the OB blame it no her number of gestations, said that was not a likely cause of the miscarriage. The OB stated it likely had more to do with age.

Now, I did not tivo it--but i'm sure you can pull the interview up on Youtube.

You seem terribly misguided due to your very biased "opinions" that you are perfectly entitled to have.

But the fact remains is--that miscarriage is likely for any woman of any age for any reason.

There are women whose baby just dies in utero in latter stages of pregnancy.

We are all at risk of this.


All we know is--it was a routine visit and she did not labor. Nothing occurred. The baby simply died in utero. So while you can feel free to keep spewing your hatred of the parents....the same thing can still happen to you or I or anyone else be it our first or 20th child. To believe otherwise is simply naive. To vilify the family as though they are in some unique position to have this happen to them is ridiculous and insulting to any woman who has suffered through a loss.

 

[Coconut36]

You seem hell bent on stating that she was at an increased risk due to number of pregnancies....

The OB on the Today show (can't remember her credentials but she teaches at a medical school), when pressed by Ann Curry who was practically insisting the OB blame it no her number of gestations, said that was not a likely cause of the miscarriage. The OB stated it likely had more to do with age.

Now, I did not tivo it--but i'm sure you can pull the interview up on Youtube.

You seem terribly misguided due to your very biased "opinions" that you are perfectly entitled to have.

But the fact remains is--that miscarriage is likely for any woman of any age for any reason.

There are women whose baby just dies in utero in latter stages of pregnancy.

We are all at risk of this.


All we know is--it was a routine visit and she did not labor. Nothing occurred. The baby simply died in utero. So while you can feel free to keep spewing your hatred of the parents....the same thing can still happen to you or I or anyone else be it our first or 20th child. To believe otherwise is simply naive. To vilify the family as though they are in some unique position to have this happen to them is ridiculous and insulting to any woman who has suffered through a loss.

Extremely well said!

 

[princessmom29]

Where did you receive Doctorates degree? Yeah, thought so.

You seem hell bent on stating that she was at an increased risk due to number of pregnancies....

The OB on the Today show (can't remember her credentials but she teaches at a medical school), when pressed by Ann Curry who was practically insisting the OB blame it no her number of gestations, said that was not a likely cause of the miscarriage. The OB stated it likely had more to do with age.

Now, I did not tivo it--but i'm sure you can pull the interview up on Youtube.

You seem terribly misguided due to your very biased "opinions" that you are perfectly entitled to have.

But the fact remains is--that miscarriage is likely for any woman of any age for any reason.

There are women whose baby just dies in utero in latter stages of pregnancy.

We are all at risk of this.


All we know is--it was a routine visit and she did not labor. Nothing occurred. The baby simply died in utero. So while you can feel free to keep spewing your hatred of the parents....the same thing can still happen to you or I or anyone else be it our first or 20th child. To believe otherwise is simply naive. To vilify the family as though they are in some unique position to have this happen to them is ridiculous and insulting to any woman who has suffered through a loss.

I have a biochemistry degree, and I know how to read a scientific study. I suggest you do some reading, particularly of the studies I posted.
I am not sure what a "doctorates" degree is.

One OB who hasn't examined her said this. She has been through 2 doctors now who told her they would not treat her through future preganacies because they were too risky. Yes, I think that should have been enough reason not to continue. Yes, I think that makes them responsible for the outcome of choosing to continue. That doesn't mean I "hate" anyone. I hate that their poor choices resulted in what I consider to be the death of a child. Of couse everyone is at risk of miscarriage, but to believe that this woman of advanced maternal age with 19 previous births was not at grater risk is simply niave.