Michelle Duggar miscarries

[PeterPan09]

From what I have seen Mrs Dugger had a lot of trouble finding a doctor willing to have her as a patient, also she has been warned not to try for any more. The trouble is for the main part pregnancy is a drug for her and without another pregnancy she doesn't get the public adoration that she has come to expect. Now as for the quiverfull sect they are deluding themselves if they really believe that you could fit the whole world population into Texas. There are many other families that also follow this pattern of life but they do it quietly without fuss the Duggers had to have a tv show for their brood.

Which is my real issue with them, the idea that they have to show off how holy they are with a TV show. Of course, if they didn't have the show they probably couldn't have 19 kids and be debt free, could they? We'd all be debt free if we had a TV show paying the bills.

I feel sorry for the loss of the baby, because miscarriage is a sad thing for anyone. However, that doesn't make me feel that they are any less exhibitionists and using their children to garner fame and wealth-not something I have ever read about in my Bible.

 

[marie1203]

No matter the *cause* of this miscarriage, they need to stop.

If Michelle dies in pregnancy/childbirth next time, who will raise the kids? Who will be responsible for Josie? That's too much to ask the older girls to do. Period. She needs to love her older kids enough to say that they ARE enough to make her life complete. She's got a whacked out sense of identity.

I'm sad for the loss- mainly for the kids. I think that despite all the warnings from doctors about their risks continuing to get pregnant, they truly believed that it would never happen to them. It's easy to ignore the risks if you are convinced they don't apply to you.

She doesn't raise her kids. The older kids are raising the other kids. Who are we kidding here? She was TRYING to get pregnant at 45 after all the health issues. I can almost bet she was taking prenatal vitamins, etc. She is clearly very irresponsible. The sad part is that they probably won't stop. I just can't feel bad for people that put themselves in certain situations and are surprise by the outcome.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I have a cousin whose wife comes from a large family, 12 children, 13 pregnancies. I don't remember if my cousin is up to baby #8 or not, i tend to lose track but almost every pregnancy has been very difficult. The Dr keep telling them no more babies. I got one heck of a lecture from his mother, again my cousin, that God is in charge, it is their duty to do God's will, that God will take care of them. Okay. I get it. God is telling them it is a sin not to continue to have children. I was a bit testy because she had reamed my DD out over only having one child and that was selfish, Marisa owed it to me to have more. Really? Not my decision and kady had health issues that Marisa would not chance with another. So I shared my own opinion of people who forget that God gave most of us more brains than He gave a goose and expects us to use them. I told her that in IMP the ultimate selfishness is to put your own needs and wants over your children, which is what I thought her son and DDIL were doing when they chanced the life of the mother of so many children in order to have more. It was not responsible parenting as far as I was concerned. Every baby they had was in the NICU or PICU for months.
I never would have said anything, it was not my business but after the scolding my DD had gotten and the lecture I got because I refused to believe that I should interfere with their lives I figured she could stand a dose of my reality. So yes, there are people who follow this theory that God will take care of them.

And when she gets to the pearly gates, she's going to say God, God, why did you put us through the NICU and PICU so many times? And he's going to answer, I sent doctor after doctor your way to tell you not to have another one. Exactly what about that didn't you understand?

 

[ead79]

Which is my real issue with them, the idea that they have to show off how holy they are with a TV show. Of course, if they didn't have the show they probably couldn't have 19 kids and be debt free, could they? We'd all be debt free if we had a TV show paying the bills.

I feel sorry for the loss of the baby, because miscarriage is a sad thing for anyone. However, that doesn't make me feel that they are any less exhibitionists and using their children to garner fame and wealth-not something I have ever read about in my Bible.

Just to be fair to them on the debt issue, they were totally debt-free before they had a TV show. They live VERY frugally (many episodes show them purchasing clothes from Goodwill, buying everything used and fixing it up themselves, etc.) and they have several income streams that most folks don't such as a cell tower on some land they own that they get paid rent for.

 

[HelenePA]

And when she gets to the pearly gates, she's going to say God, God, why did you put us through the NICU and PICU so many times? And he's going to answer, I sent doctor after doctor your way to tell you not to have another one. Exactly what about that didn't you understand?

Now see that's not fair.. If I went by YOUR meaning of what god wanted with being in the NICU or PICU so much I would have only had one child... There is NOTHING wrong with my others.. my first just drew the short straw. the only difference it I was NOT told "not to have any more kids".

 

[happygirl]

My heartbreaks for them. I can't even image what they would be like for them

 

[luvmy3]

I don't think it's anyone's business to judge how they choose to live their lives considering they are debt free, productive members of society. They are a wonderful family, and it doesn't affect any of you who are criticizing and thinking it's your place to tell them when to stop having children.

What amazes me on these boards is how in a lot of cases, people are told not to "judge" others, yet those same people who have no problem judging this wonderful, Christian family.

The almost hatred of them is absolutely disgusting. This family is far from a drama filled reality show. They are showing their way of life and do not live like any other reality show family I have ever seen.

So, let me get this straight, its okay for you to judge them based on what you see on TV but its not okay for others because we don't see them in the positive light you do?

I don't care how many kids you have, when you choose to exploit them and your "wonderful" lifestyle on TV you deserve every judgment you receive, good, bad and ugly.

 

[Nancyg56]

And when she gets to the pearly gates, she's going to say God, God, why did you put us through the NICU and PICU so many times? And he's going to answer, I sent doctor after doctor your way to tell you not to have another one. Exactly what about that didn't you understand?

That kind of what I told my cousin. I don't have a horse in that race but I got sick of the Holier than Thou lectures and finally said that God expected them to use the that brains he graced them with in order to make sound decisions regarding their health and the health of the children they were already Blessed with.

 

[princessmom29]

Now see that's not fair.. If I went by YOUR meaning of what god wanted with being in the NICU or PICU so much I would have only had one child... There is NOTHING wrong with my others.. my first just drew the short straw. the only difference it I was NOT told "not to have any more kids".

You said it yourself. You haven't been told by 3 or 4 doctors that trying to get pregnant agian was risking your life nad the life of your baby. It is a COMPLETELY different situation to have had one NICU baby than to have had 6 or 7, or to have 18 healthy then a NICU baby along with other serious risk factors. I think her comment was NOT directed at people in your situation, but those who choose to ignore the advice of multiple medical professional and continue to put themselves and their unborn children at risk.

 

[sookie]

It is also recommended by the AAP that a mother wait 12 months after a birth before getting pregnant again. It is my opinion, based upon what I know about the family, what I know about how "natural minded" they are about other subjects, based upon their use of the "buddy system" for the babies, that Michelle weans her babies early (she weans them, they do not wean themselves, and she weans them early, before the recommended 12 months), so she can get pregnant again.

BTW, it is rare that babies do actually wean themselves before 12 months. It may have happened twice to the PP, but I cannot believe it's happened 18 times to Michelle Duggar. I practice self-weaning and my oldest nursed to 30 months, and my youngest seems to be done at 17 months. Babies are different. I'm not trying to make any sort of statement for the "pro-breastfeeding agenda." I am pro-breastfeeding, sorry if that offends you but I am. It is my belief that Michelle Duggar does her babies and herself a disservice by weaning them early so she can get pregnant again. Sorry if that offends you.

AMEN.

I think when you have used your uterus like a revolving door for 23 years some things are just obvious.

Hahahhaahahaha! I laughed out loud at this!! I don't care WHO you are - that is funny!!

Personally, I suspect she weans early so she can pass the babies down to their siblings to care for. Jinger can't breastfeed, as far as we know...

I guess if we could get the older girls to take care of that part of the baby raising, Michelle might have had 30 kids by now.

It is highly unlikely that the miscarriage was due to chromosomal abnormality. Those miscarriages overwghelmingly occur early. Rarely past 12 weeks. These abnormalities almost always prevent normal development very early on. It is much more likely that a physical problem (incontenet cervix, poor blood supply) caused the miscarriage. Bottom line is that they were made well aware that there was a very large risk to both mother and baby associated with another pregnancy and that getting pregnant agian was not advisable yet they chose to continue. Their decision was highly likely to have a poor outcome. Had they heeded the advice of medical professionals there would not be a dead baby.

I disagree. Many of the trisomy babies are miscarried late in pregnancy. Other chromosomal problems also present themselves with nothing other than a late miscarriage or loss. Many later term losses are due to incompatible with life chromosomal changes. Some of those may be delivered, but they die shortly after birth. It is very, very sad.

With all due respect, the loss rate for T21 is actually rather greater after 14 weeks. Most of the time T21 pregnancies that have dismal outcomes end because of either hydrops or cardiac malformations. These are things that do not become a serious problem until the fetus gets to a certain size, generally sometime after 13 weeks. In the case of hydrops, death is caused by the inability of the system to dispose of wastes; in these cases fetal death normally happens between 16-24 weeks.

A 2004 article in the journal Fetal Medicine related these statistics:

[/LEFT]

FWIW, I lost three pregnancies due to trisomies, 2 of the 3 in the early second trimester. Trisomies in live fetuses are normally not detected until about 12 weeks, but once you see them you are looking about about a 1 in 5 chance that the baby will not make it to term if it is T21 (Down), or about a 1 in 2.2 chance if it is T13 or T18, which have an 80% mortality rate after prenatal diagnosis.

So yes, more trisomy losses happen in the first trimester, but the number that occur in the second is by no means negligible. For a woman who is 45 and has a 1 in 21 likelihood of a trisomy conception, the rate of loss for that reason is higher than in a younger woman.

As to missed abortions, the rate is fairly high; something like 10% of miscarriages do not complete without medical intervention. If that's what you are dealing with at 16 weeks, most of the time you won't know until a doctor checks.

FTR, the technical rule for deeming it a "spontaneous abortion" (i.e. miscarriage) vs. a stillbirth is 20 weeks gestation at demise. If the fetus is measuring smaller then the apparent age at demise is what will be used to determine what it is referred to as. Most people will are aware of the pregnancy will consider it a death, especially when it happens any time after 12 weeks. The distinction is important in some religions, and in some cases employers and/or insurance policies will decide that it makes a difference in terms of how much leave you are allowed. That was true in my case: the temporary disability policy that I have will let you have leave after delivery if it is termed a stillbirth, but not if it is counted as a miscarriage.

This poster has some good points.

I've heard him say that too on the show in the past. That it's up to Michelle. But it makes sense if he's talking about her physical body not her mind.

Honestly, I think he's the driving force behind all these pregnancies. On one of the recent shows, he was talking with the father of that other huge family. Both he and the father were talking about how they have a lot of kids, how if you add both families up, they could more than fill the room, etc. Sounded pretty arrogant actually and I was surprised they didn't high five each other with their man parts.

The last line of this post made my day. I agree with you 100% on your assessment of "Jim Bob". I think he gets just as much enjoyment out of the attentive for his - reproductive prowess - as Michelle does. And that is saying a lot.

I won't go as far as saying she "caused" the miscarriage, however:

Getting pregnant 21 times.
Giving birth to 19 children.
Having the children close together.
Last pregnancy was high-risk.
Having a serious complication which could have caused her death and/or the death of the baby.
Becoming pregnant again before the micro-premie is two years old.
Age 45=higher risk of chromosomal abnormalities.


If I'm not mistaken, I believe I've read that the uterus loses elasticity and develops scar tissue with super-frequent usage which makes it less than ideal for carrying a baby to term.

She's playing russian roulette now.

I think that at this point, I will mention what other posters have said. Her living children DESERVE a mother. It would be so unfair for her to die due to pregnancy or birth complications. She needs to accept the these children are enough and try to be as healthy for them as she can be.

I don't sense that anyone here feels hatred towards the Duggars. It's more of "WTH are they nuts" with some "they are irresponsible parents" thrown in.

No, no hatred that I can see. More concern. Have you ever heard a situation in life that is so sad and unbelievable that you just shake your head? It's kind of like that. I believe that we are given the technology for medicine that we have been given for a reason. When we have found that women are at risk - it is important that mothers and families know their risks so they can make healthy choices. Of course, she will always have her choice - this is America. But she needs to realize that people are telling her they are concerned for HER health and the health of her future babies for a reason. They want to help. They don't want to hurt her. If she chooses to proceed to continue to try to become pregnant (like Hippie said above) - then she should take full responsibility of the consequences. That include disability or death for herself or her future babies (like sweet Josie).

To further expand on what others said (I forgot to multi-quote it). You make a good point - when that baby is ready to go off to an older sibling, she is "ready" for them to go off to the older sibling - and maybe that is why she just stops nursing and transitions her babies to an older child. 18 babies do not spontaneously wean before 12 months. Some of the babies, maybe - but not 18 of them.


I think she does part of that so she has more "Jim Bob" time so they can get to work at the baby making. I used to think that when they bumped into each other in the halls, that must have been when she would get pregnant. That's a joke - but how would she have time for this? It's hard to get pregnant at her age. You can't just snap your fingers and get pregnant that quickly at her age. I have now changed my mind. I am thinking that it is completely possible that she passes off the little ones to her older children so she can actively try to make a baby. She HAS to be! Who else has time to conceive 20 children?

 

[princessmom29]

I disagree. Many of the trisomy babies are miscarried late in pregnancy. Other chromosomal problems also present themselves with nothing other than a late miscarriage or loss. Many later term losses are due to incompatible with life chromosomal changes. Some of those may be delivered, but they die shortly after birth. It is very, very sad.

All of this is true and does happen, but the data show that only 25% of second trimester miscarriages are due to chromosomal abnormality, and that is on the generous side of the stats. Others put it as low as 10%. I wasn't saying that it doesn't happen, just that it is more likely to be something else.

 

[Nancyg56]

Now see that's not fair.. If I went by YOUR meaning of what god wanted with being in the NICU or PICU so much I would have only had one child... There is NOTHING wrong with my others.. my first just drew the short straw. the only difference it I was NOT told "not to have any more kids".

Not at you at all! I am sorry that you thought I was critical of you. My cousin's DS and DDIL have 7 or 8 kids. Since the first pregnancy there has been multiple issues and after her third she had been advised that there should be no further children, the risk to mother and child were much to grave. They are Catholic and do not use contraception. They also believe that they need to continue to have children as long as they can. Fine. I am not sure that I would continue to increase my family when child after child spends months in the hospital but again, not my business.

I got angry when my cousin asked Marisa when she was having another child and after being told that Kady was going to be an only child accused her of being a selfish person who refused to grant her mother (me) more grandchildren. Marisa told her that Kady had health issues and that she would never take the chance that another baby go through what she had or perhaps worse.

After that she decided to start preaching to me about my duty as Catholic to get Marisa to have more children and that God would ensure that all was well. I finally had enough and let her have it about my own opinion about God and His master Plan. I then told her I did not appreciate her feedback but as long as we were sharing opinions mine was that the God I believe in would never force people to risk the life of the mother of at that time 6 children in order to have more and then watch that baby suffer for months on end in a hospital. She was pretty mad and started quoting Bible stories but at that point I just told her that she needed to let my children use their common sense and she could let her children do the same.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Sadly it looks like the miscarriage (a baby girl) happened Sunday night and Michelle was lightheaded so she's in the hospital. The funeral is planned for Wednesday. Again, I don't agree with some of their beliefs but this is very sad and must be difficult for their whole family to deal with.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20552978,00.html

 

[Conservative Hippie]

They named the baby Jubilee Shalom.