Michelle Duggar miscarries

[NikitaZee]

Yes, I can just bet they want privacy. at least until they announce her next pregnancy! What a circus. Oh, and I do feel sorry for her because I would feel sorry for anyone who miscarried. That doesn't stop me at the hypocrisy.

Agreed. I hope there is no next pregnancy. For me personally, mother's love of my other children would stop me. I'd be far more concerned with leaving my kids motherless than carrying out God's plan, or whatever it is they think they are doing by having so many kids. I think they are irresponsible as heck for continuing to get pregnant at this point.

 

[1girln3boys]

I feel badly for them, but I do find it ironic that they have asked for privacy. They have chosen to make EVERYTHING about their life public but NOW they want privacy? I doubt it's gonna happen.

If they wanted privacy then why call People magazine and tell them about the miscarriage?

 

[princessmom29]

The baby is dead. Is it possible to have a thread that doesn't degrade into something else? Can't we just mourn the death of a baby? Is it really that hard?

It is diffcult for me because I feel that the parents caused the death. They acted recklessly and endangered the life of thier child. It makes me just as angry as when we hear about a child left alnoe in a home that burns down or a child that dies as a result of neglect. These parents are just as culpable for the death.

 

[YodaGirl]

It is diffcult for me because I feel that the parents caused the death. They acted recklessly and endangered the life of thier child. It makes me just as angry as when we hear about a child left alnoe in a home that burns down or a child that dies as a result of neglect. These parents are just as culpable for the death.

Considering that the chances are more likely than not that the miscarriage was due to a chromosomal anomaly, I fail to see how they caused the death.

They engaged in an act that resulted in a pregnancy - that was it. They didn't engage in activities that put the pregnancy at risk (unless you're prepared to blame all 45 yr olds for their miscarriages).

 

[princessmom29]

Considering that the chances are more likely than not that the miscarriage was due to a chromosomal anomaly, I fail to see how they caused the death.

They engaged in an act that resulted in a pregnancy - that was it. They didn't engage in activities that put the pregnancy at risk (unless you're prepared to blame all 45 yr olds for their miscarriages).

It is highly unlikely that the miscarriage was due to chromosomal abnormality. Those miscarriages overwghelmingly occur early. Rarely past 12 weeks. These abnormalities almost always prevent normal development very early on. It is much more likely that a physical problem (incontenet cervix, poor blood supply) caused the miscarriage. Bottom line is that they were made well aware that there was a very large risk to both mother and baby associated with another pregnancy and that getting pregnant agian was not advisable yet they chose to continue. Their decision was highly likely to have a poor outcome. Had they heeded the advice of medical professionals there would not be a dead baby.

 

[marie1203]

I feel bad for the baby. I find her to be very irresponsible, she went against doctor suggested and knew that she was not only risking her life but the life of the baby yet she decided not to do anything to prevent it. She doesn't even raise they children she has now let alone can she handle more. I always feel bad for those poor teenagers that now they have to play mommy and daddy.

 

[punkin]

It is diffcult for me because I feel that the parents caused the death. They acted recklessly and endangered the life of thier child. It makes me just as angry as when we hear about a child left alnoe in a home that burns down or a child that dies as a result of neglect. These parents are just as culpable for the death.

First of all, no death has occurred. It's a miscarriage, and much as I hate the Duggars I don't think they caused it. I think the only thing they caused was the pregnancy. I think it was horrible for them to get pregnant and completely irresponsible to their living children. However, I am sure that Michelle is really deeply hurting right now. I am sure she really wanted this pregnancy and is grieving its loss. I can feel sorry for her and condemn her actions at the same time. There is no inconsistency there.

 

[Coconut36]

It is highly unlikely that the miscarriage was due to chromosomal abnormality. Those miscarriages overwghelmingly occur early. Rarely past 12 weeks. These abnormalities almost always prevent normal development very early on. It is much more likely that a physical problem (incontenet cervix, poor blood supply) caused the miscarriage. Bottom line is that they were made well aware that there was a very large risk to both mother and baby associated with another pregnancy and that getting pregnant agian was not advisable yet they chose to continue. Their decision was highly likely to have a poor outcome. Had they heeded the advice of medical professionals there would not be a dead baby.

Uh...what? The most common cause of a miscarriage is chromosomal problems. You are basing your opinion on what facts exactly?

The Reasons for a Second Trimester Miscarriage

The most common reason for any miscarriage is chromosome problems in the fetus. These problems often occur during the first trimester and may go undetected until the miscarriage occurs in the 2nd trimester of the pregnancy.

http://www.babymed.com/complications/second-trimester-miscarriage

The other reasons you listed like incompetent cervix and so on can be other causes yes but the most COMMON cause is a chromosome problem. You are making these lovely judgments towards the Duggars based on what seems to be inaccurate information. Yes it is possible there could have been another cause but if she had an incompetent cervix or uterine issue she would have needed to seek treatment vs finding out at an u/s that the child had passed with not outward signs (point IMO more towards a fetal issue like a chromosome problem not an issue with Michelle physically because a physical issue would likely have resulted in urgent or emergency treatment).

 

[princessmom29]

First of all, no death has occurred. It's a miscarriage, and much as I hate the Duggars I don't think they caused it. I think the only thing they caused was the pregnancy. I think it was horrible for them to get pregnant and completely irresponsible to their living children. However, I am sure that Michelle is really deeply hurting right now. I am sure she really wanted this pregnancy and is grieving its loss. I can feel sorry for her and condemn her actions at the same time. There is no inconsistency there.

If you believe, as they do, that life begins at conception, then there was a death. Thier knowingly reckless action resuted in the death of another human being.

 

[princessmom29]

Uh...what? The most common cause of a miscarriage is chromosomal problems. You are basing your opinion on what facts exactly?



http://www.babymed.com/complications/second-trimester-miscarriage

The other reasons you listed like incompetent cervix and so on can be other causes yes but the most COMMON cause is a chromosome problem. You are making these lovely judgments towards the Duggars based on what seems to be inaccurate information. Yes it is possible there could have been another cause but if she had an incompetent cervix or uterine issue she would have needed to seek treatment vs finding out at an u/s that the child had passed with not outward signs (point IMO more towards a fetal issue like a chromosome problem not an issue with Michelle physically because a physical issue would likely have resulted in urgent or emergency treatment).

thati s NOT what the quote says. Read it again. It say s that the most commone reason For ANY miscarriage is chromosonal, and that chromosomal miscarriages MAY occur in the second trimester. It DOESN'T say they are the most common cause of second trimester miscarriage.
this is from a study on chromosomal abnomaliries the result in misscarriage:

The likelihood that a miscarriage is due to chromosome abnormality is a function of gestational age, with earlier gestations being more likely to be affected

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/581188_3

In other words. Chromosomal miscarriages typically happen in early pregnancy, which is defined as first trimester.

from another study:
In addition to their role in first trimester miscarriage, chromosomal abnormalities also cause pregnancy loss in the second trimester. About 24 percent of pregnancy losses in the second trimester are caused by chromosomal abnormalities, and about 12 percent of late second trimester losses are attributed to this cause.12 Chromosomal abnormalities found in second trimester losses are similar to those found in live births; the most common are trisomies 13, 18, and 21, monosomy X (i.e., Turner syndrome), and sex chromosome polysomies.8
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/1101/p1341.html

note the bolded portion. Only about 12 percent of late second trimester miscarriages, which is how a 20 week miscarriage would be classified since after 20 weeks it is medically considered stillbirth, are a result of chromosomal abnormalitites. So about 1 in 10, hardly MOST.

 

[tlbwriter]

Did they confirm that the fetus died at 20 weeks, or did they just discover it at her 20 week appointment?

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Did they confirm that the fetus died at 20 weeks, or did they just discover it at her 20 week appointment?

I just read that she was only 19 weeks along when they learned of the baby's death. Apparently the baby measured at 16 weeks.

 

[YodaGirl]

Science would say otherwise.

With all due respect, you are incorrect.

 

[princessmom29]

Did they confirm that the fetus died at 20 weeks, or did they just discover it at her 20 week appointment?

It is very rare for fetal death to go undiscovered for more that a week, possibly two, because the tissue becomes necrotic because it has no blood supply. So we are pretty safe to assume it happened at 18 weeks or later, still mid to late second trimester.

 

[princessmom29]

Science would say otherwise.

With all due respect, you are incorrect.

See the above quoted studies. According to those and many others I have seen only around 10% of late second trimester and 25% of early second trimester miscarrieages are a result of chromosomal abnormality.

Do you have data that shows otherwise? I would love to see it becuase I have never seen anything.

 

[princessmom29]

I just read that she was only 19 weeks along when they learned of the baby's death. Apparently the baby measured at 16 weeks.

that doesn't necessairly mean it WAS 16 weeks however. my DD measured small until 3rd trimester, so do many. Bottom line is there is no way to tell EXACTLY when it happened, but it would be very rare for it to have happened more than a week or 2 ago.

 

[ead79]

First of all, no death has occurred. It's a miscarriage, and much as I hate the Duggars I don't think they caused it. I think the only thing they caused was the pregnancy. I think it was horrible for them to get pregnant and completely irresponsible to their living children. However, I am sure that Michelle is really deeply hurting right now. I am sure she really wanted this pregnancy and is grieving its loss. I can feel sorry for her and condemn her actions at the same time. There is no inconsistency there.

Many people, myself very much included, believe a miscarriage is a death. A young woman at my church recently lost her son at 33 weeks gestation, and I can assure you that she very much feels it was a death the same as if he had lived outside the womb. In fact, his funeral was today.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Many people, myself very much included, believe a miscarriage is a death. A young woman at my church recently lost her son at 33 weeks gestation, and I can assure you that she very much feels it was a death the same as if he had lived outside the womb. In fact, his funeral was today.

I think that there is a ut off time for it to be considered a miscarriage vs. a stillbirth.

I'm not saying one is more tragic than the other...just pointing out that I don't think your friend's son would be considered a miscarriage.

 

[NotUrsula]

With all due respect, the loss rate for T21 is actually rather greater after 14 weeks. Most of the time T21 pregnancies that have dismal outcomes end because of either hydrops or cardiac malformations. These are things that do not become a serious problem until the fetus gets to a certain size, generally sometime after 13 weeks. In the case of hydrops, death is caused by the inability of the system to dispose of wastes; in these cases fetal death normally happens between 16-24 weeks.

A 2004 article in the journal Fetal Medicine related these statistics:

The rates of spontaneous fetal death in trisomy 21 between 12 weeks (when NT screening is carried out) and 40 weeks is about 30% and between 16 weeks (when second trimester maternal serum biochemical testing is carried out) and 40 weeks is about 20%.​

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FWIW, I lost three pregnancies due to trisomies, 2 of the 3 in the early second trimester. Trisomies in live fetuses are normally not detected until about 12 weeks, but once you see them you are looking about about a 1 in 5 chance that the baby will not make it to term if it is T21 (Down), or about a 1 in 2.2 chance if it is T13 or T18, which have an 80% mortality rate after prenatal diagnosis.

So yes, more trisomy losses happen in the first trimester, but the number that occur in the second is by no means negligible. For a woman who is 45 and has a 1 in 21 likelihood of a trisomy conception, the rate of loss for that reason is higher than in a younger woman.

As to missed abortions, the rate is fairly high; something like 10% of miscarriages do not complete without medical intervention. If that's what you are dealing with at 16 weeks, most of the time you won't know until a doctor checks.

FTR, the technical rule for deeming it a "spontaneous abortion" (i.e. miscarriage) vs. a stillbirth is 20 weeks gestation at demise. If the fetus is measuring smaller then the apparent age at demise is what will be used to determine what it is referred to as. Most people will are aware of the pregnancy will consider it a death, especially when it happens any time after 12 weeks. The distinction is important in some religions, and in some cases employers and/or insurance policies will decide that it makes a difference in terms of how much leave you are allowed. That was true in my case: the temporary disability policy that I have will let you have leave after delivery if it is termed a stillbirth, but not if it is counted as a miscarriage.

 

[punkin]

Many people, myself very much included, believe a miscarriage is a death. A young woman at my church recently lost her son at 33 weeks gestation, and I can assure you that she very much feels it was a death the same as if he had lived outside the womb. In fact, his funeral was today.

Is it still a miscarriage then or is that a stillbirth? My Grandmother had a stillbirth and she grieved all her life. I am sure miscarriages are just as painful, but the fact remains that until the baby is out, it is not a death (legally).

In any event, I do believe that Michelle is devastated. There is no question in my mind about that. My point was that whatever happened, she did not CAUSE the death of a baby (and, frankly did not CAUSE the miscarriage either).