michael vick signed with the eagles

[MarleyMurphy]

Vick did his actions to dogs. An animal. What makes one animal such as a dog different from say a rats that you kill and slaughter at will in your house? Is it intelligence? the ability to feel pain? What makes one animal different then another? Is it the status society has put on animals, like dogs and rats. If Vick had trained rats to fight to the death, would you care as much? would he have even gone to trial?

Anything less than a human is a totally dfferent game.

Dogfighting does not exsist in a bubble...it's not just about the animals. There are usually gangs and drugs involved in dog fighting. More importantly though is that it desensitizes people to violence. If you can watch two dogs tear each other apart it's not so much of a stretch to watch a human being beaten or killed. Most people who are in jail for a violent offense to a human committed a crime against an animal first.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Dogfighting does not exsist in a bubble...it's not just about the animals. There are usually gangs and drugs involved in dog fighting. More importantly though is that it desensitizes people to violence. If you can watch two dogs tear each other apart it's not so much of a stretch to watch a human being beaten or killed. Most people who are in jail for a violent offense to a human committed a crime against an animal first.

 

[FireDancer]

Vick did his actions to dogs. An animal. What makes one animal such as a dog different from say a rats that you kill and slaughter at will in your house? Is it intelligence? the ability to feel pain? What makes one animal different then another? Is it the status society has put on animals, like dogs and rats. If Vick had trained rats to fight to the death, would you care as much? would he have even gone to trial?

Anything less than a human is a totally different game.

I don't think any of them are any different. Killing a cockroach is no different than killing a dog but it is ok to kill a cockroach or swat a fly. We get all bent out of shape when cultures eat a dog but we will chow down on beef and chicken all day.

I don't go out of my way to hurt animals but I think it is asinine to place one animal above another because they have the ability to fetch or look more cuddly.

Dog fighting isn't as bad as child molesting, murder, or any of the other crimes against a human because people matter more than mere animals.

 

[MTW]

First of all I was present at the Eagles game last night when the news was announced and people cheered. Yes cheered. But lets put football aside for the moment. Lets look at the effect this will have off the field. This is bigger than football.

This is something that is much bigger than the Eagles or the NFL. Vick is in a position to do some very honorable things that have the potential to change what goes in relation to the treatment of animals (especially in the realm of dog fighting). I’m happy Vick is back to playing professional football, but again, this is not about football. This is about what he can do with the opportunity. How can he change the mindset and actions of people who were once like him? Vick is now the messenger. Vick is the recognizable face that many young kids can look at and identify with. The question isn’t if Vick can help the Eagles win. The question is can Vick change lives through his mistakes. Its bigger than football people.


Does Vick deserve a second chance? Absolutely. He did his time and now should be allowed to move on with his life. He’s fortunate and BLESSED to have the type of God given ability that allows him to attract the attention of NFL owners. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t be in NFL. (But of course if Vick were your average Joe, looking to get back his normal 9 – 5 job, no one would care) Banning Vick from playing football does nothing for the problem of dog fighting. The answer is to make the problem part of the solution, which is what the Eagles are doing.

A lot of you hate to see this and not just because what he’s done to dogs (Lord knows this isn’t the biggest thing ever involving the cruelty of animals). You hate it because who Vick is. Some of you never identified with him prior to this incident, so why would you know. But believe me, there are some people who once supported Vick and may come from the same environment as he did. They may even be involved in some of the same actions Vick was involved in. Those are the people I pray he can reach. Talk to them. Focus on them. Those of you who don’t like him or never did…who cares? You don’t mean anything to the rehabilitation of him or people like him. If anything YOU are hampering the progress. Dog fighting the in urban communities IS real. Perhaps this can help to correct the problem.

Now…as for football. I have my season tickets!!

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I wonder if Vick had all his teeth pulled out - like he did to one of his dogs? I wonder if Vick ever was tied to a 'rape rack' - like he did to one of his dogs? I wonder if he was ever drown, beaten, electrocuted buried alive - like he did to his dogs??

You know, and contrary to popular belief, not all Pits are 'gamey' - in fact most don't make good fighting dogs. Known and convicted pit breeders/fighters have said numerous times, they're lucky if they get *one* puppy from a litter with the 'game' in them. Which means he was beating, drowning, electrocuting a whole lot of them. Go Vick? Really????

I think I'm going to be sick. But thanks for posting that. However, I suspect that the people who support Vick can read that without emotion.

Vick did his actions to dogs. An animal. What makes one animal such as a dog different from say a rats that you kill and slaughter at will in your house? Is it intelligence? the ability to feel pain? What makes one animal different then another? Is it the status society has put on animals, like dogs and rats. If Vick had trained rats to fight to the death, would you care as much? would he have even gone to trial?

Anything less than a human is a totally dfferent game.

Had anything stated in Cathryn Rose's post been done to ANY animal, yes, I'd care as much.

I don't care if he had Beta fish fighting. If he was such a "man" , let him dook it out with someone instead of being a little B and having animals fight for him to show how bad he was.

He's a cowardly pig.

More importantly though is that it desensitizes people to violence. If you can watch two dogs tear each other apart it's not so much of a stretch to watch a human being beaten or killed. Most people who are in jail for a violent offense to a human committed a crime against an animal first.

Exactly.

 

[Magalex]

With Vick joining the Eagles, I just hope for one bright outcome that maybe the Eagle franchise & or Vick will support financially the Humane Society of Philadelphia. Maybe help spread the word around how destructive the world of "dog fighting" is to society and one's life.

Please adopt from your local shelter

 

[vt_disney_fan]

I'm just curious about the "he did his time" crowd. Would it matter if he'd served his time in relation to a different crime? How about Drugs? Domestic Violence? Pedophilia? Murder?

No, to me it wouldn't matter at all. Our laws, which are written and voted on by the people in Congress that WE elect, specify certain sentences for certain crimes. The law specified a certain sentence for the crimes Vick was convicted of. Nobody can dispute that. Vick served the sentence he was given, according to our laws. If anyone has an issue with him now being out of prison and being able to rejoin society, WHY DON'T YOU PUT ALL YOUR HATRED AND VIGOR INTO LOBBYING YOUR ELECTED CONGRESS MEN AND WOMEN INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT IT? Judging from the lack of people actually doing that, as opposed to just complaining about Vick (which is much easier to do), it would seem that people want to complain, but not necessarily put their true feelings into action to accomplish change that they feel is necessary. If a person served a sentence for a drug charge, and then got out, should they be able to play in the NFL again? Yes, I believe they should, because legally they have paid for their crime, and if the NFL is willing to let them play again, then what is there to stop them? If you try to make the argument that the sentence should have been longer or harsher, that's my point - PUT YOUR ENERGY INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, DON'T JUST KEEP WHINING ABOUT MICHAEL VICK LIKE A 4-YEAR OLD!!!

I can't imagine everyone would be so eager to have, say a convicted pedophile on "their" team, EVEN if he had served his time...and anyone who says otherwise is outright lying.

Gee, didn't you essentially answer your own question - you wouldn't believe anybody if they told you "yes" anyway, so why bother with the question. Oh, would I kill for your clairvoyant abilities to read people's minds - have you won the lottery yet? Again, as I've said above, if the person served their sentence for their crime that the current sentencing laws call for, how can I complain about the person? I can complain about the sentencing laws all I want, if I don't think they're strict enough, but that isn't the fault of the criminal, it's the responsibility of those who set laws to make sure the punishment fits the crime. If I felt strongly enough, say, for example, that a pedophile who had served time was let off too leniently, while I may not be happy with the pedophile himself (or herself), what I'm REALLY saying is that I don't think the sentence fit the crime. Complaining about the pedophile doesn't do any good. If I want change, I need to work to get the change effected, and the pedophile can't do anything about that.

I think many of the "he served his time" folk, don't view his crime as all that serious.

I view it as a crime. I don't condone what he did - it was wrong, and he broke the law, which he was convicted of, and served prison time for, and was suspended from the NFL for. Those facts are indisputable.

Do I view it as serious as others do? No, I'm sure I don't. Do I think it's as serious as murder, rape, child abuse, etc...? No, I don't, principally because those crimes involve humans, while Vick's involves animals. Feel free to flame me for that if you wish, but I personally don't hold animal life as highly as I hold human life. Was he wrong in what he did? Yes, he was, I'm not saying he wasn't. I just don't think it's as bad as others do.

I'd also say this - he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Any ideas where that quote came from?

 

[MarleyMurphy]

I don't think any of them are any different. Killing a cockroach is no different than killing a dog but it is ok to kill a cockroach or swat a fly. We get all bent out of shape when cultures eat a dog but we will chow down on beef and chicken all day.

I don't go out of my way to hurt animals but I think it is asinine to place one animal above another because they have the ability to fetch or look more cuddly.

Dog fighting isn't as bad as child molesting, murder, or any of the other crimes against a human because people matter more than mere animals.

Again, even if you don't care about the animals....

• The FBI considers animal cruelty to be one of the predictors of violence and considers past animal abuse when profiling serial killers.
• National and state studies determined that from 54 to 71 percent of women seeking shelter reported that their partners had threatened, injured or killed one or more family pets (Anicare Model workshop, Tacoma 2004). If children are victims of domestic violence they may in turn represent that abuse with an animal, the only being they feel they can control.
• In assessing youth who are at risk of committing interpersonal violence, the U.S. Department of Justice emphasizes the importance of including information about past animal abuse.
• More than 80 percent of families being treated for child abuse were also involved in animal abuse. In 2/3 of the cases, the abusive parent killed or injured the pet. Sadly, in 1/3 of the cases, a child victim continued the cycle of violence by abusing a pet.
• A study in 1997 by the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Northeastern University found that 70 percent of all animal abusers have committed at least one other criminal offense and that almost 40 percent had committed violent crimes against people. They also found that over a 20-year period, a group of individuals who had abused animals as youths were five times more likely to commit violent crimes, four times more likely to commit property crimes and three times more likely to have drug or disorderly conduct offenses than a matched group of non animal abusers.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Name players who the Raiders had who were such horrible human beings. Name times that Raiders fans got violent and hurt someone. Bring up hard evidence. Raider-lore that the team is evil is all false. Kids go to these games and have fun. Yes Al Davis is a stingy owner, but it's his money. If he wants to try to save money, that is his business. It is complete legal matter away from the game. Stop talking bad about the Raiders, we have no worse players than any other team. Just because we have in the past taken in a few players with a flaws doesn't mean the whole organization and its fans are bad people.

Refusing to play coaches money that he owes them and has been awarded to them in court is not "stingy." It is pure disregard for the law and unfortunately, the NFL has never seen fit to punish him for it, which they should.
They took Bill Romanowski, Randy Moss (the Patriots did turn him around but at the time the Raiders took him, he was definitely not a stellar human being), Lyle Alzado (who again turned his life around after playing for the Raiders but at the time he played for the Raiders, was not a stellar human being to say the least), Patrick Bates (Atlanta Falcons defensive back Patrick Bates was charged with assaulting his pregnant girlfriend and, three weeks after the baby was born, kidnapping the child and beating the mother with a gun. Bates finally was let go by the Falcons, pleaded guilty to reduced charges and was signed by the Oakland Raiders), and Barret Robbins (Among the NFL's Weed Crew, Robbins went missing before the 2003 Super Bowl while with the Oakland Raiders. He was later charged for attempted murder, and was also arrested for marijuana while awaiting that trial.) All of these players played while Al Davis was the owner of the team.
As far as the fans, I have NEVER met a classy Raiders fan in my life. I'm not saying you're not classy because I don't know you, but I have never met one IRL.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

No, to me it wouldn't matter at all. Our laws, which are written and voted on by the people in Congress that WE elect, specify certain sentences for certain crimes. The law specified a certain sentence for the crimes Vick was convicted of. Nobody can dispute that. Vick served the sentence he was given, according to our laws. If anyone has an issue with him now being out of prison and being able to rejoin society, WHY DON'T YOU PUT ALL YOUR HATRED AND VIGOR INTO LOBBYING YOUR ELECTED CONGRESS MEN AND WOMEN INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT IT? Judging from the lack of people actually doing that, as opposed to just complaining about Vick (which is much easier to do), it would seem that people want to complain, but not necessarily put their true feelings into action to accomplish change that they feel is necessary. If a person served a sentence for a drug charge, and then got out, should they be able to play in the NFL again? Yes, I believe they should, because legally they have paid for their crime, and if the NFL is willing to let them play again, then what is there to stop them? If you try to make the argument that the sentence should have been longer or harsher, that's my point - PUT YOUR ENERGY INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, DON'T JUST KEEP WHINING ABOUT MICHAEL VICK LIKE A 4-YEAR OLD!!!

This isn't about the sentencing. Have you even read this thread? Who's saying he should have served more time??? Or are you reading like a 4 year old?

It's about morals and hiring a felon convicted of a heinous crime. People are DISCUSSING it on a DISCUSSION board. If someone doesn't want to support a SPORTS TEAM for whatever reason, that's up to them.

There are a whole lot of criminals out there who have served their time who can't and shouldn't get certain jobs. I, and many others, feel it's despicable that morally, the Eagles would hire Vick. It's the way we feel. Sure, they CAN hire him...obviously, they DID. No one has to like it, or think it's the "right" thing to do. People CAN be disgusted and outraged by his actions, and the actions of the Eagles. And they CAN talk about it. What law do you think everyone feels should be in place?? That he shouldn't be ALLOWED to play football? I don't think it's the place of The Law to get involved. But that doesn't mean that "anything goes." And because he served his time, it doesn't mean that everyone has to sit back with their mouths zipped (or fingers tied) and not have or give an opinion.

 

[legalsea]

http://nflcrimes.blogspot.com/

Interesting, and disturbing, website by a guy whom keeps track of the various arrest of NFL players. The number of players arrested this year alone is staggering, and for a variety of offenses.

Personally, I don't think a NFL stadium should be allowed within 1,500 feet of schools, churches, restaurants, bars, amusement parks, zoos, public parks, public lakes, car dealerships, nunneries, beer distributorships, etc. NFL stadiums simply attract to much rift-raft.

 

[vt_disney_fan]

This isn't about the sentencing. Have you even read this thread? Who's saying he should have served more time??? Or are you reading like a 4 year old?

It's more about this than you care to admit. People are unhappy that he is being hired, or even allowed to be hired. Legally, he's whole with the law now. People, whether they admit it or not, still don't like that. Most just won't own up to it.

It's about morals and hiring a felon convicted of a heinous crime. People are DISCUSSING it on a DISCUSSION board. If someone doesn't want to support a SPORTS TEAM for whatever reason, that's up to them.

You mean just like I'm DISCUSSING it? I didn't say anyone didn't have the right to support, or not support, a sports team, did I?

There are a whole lot of criminals out there who have served their time who can't and shouldn't get certain jobs. I, and many others, feel it's despicable that morally, the Eagles would hire Vick. It's the way we feel. Sure, they CAN hire him...obviously, they DID. No one has to like it, or think it's the "right" thing to do. People CAN be disgusted and outraged by his actions, and the actions of the Eagles. And they CAN talk about it. What law do you think everyone feels should be in place?? That he shouldn't be ALLOWED to play football? I don't think it's the place of The Law to get involved. But that doesn't mean that "anything goes." And because he served his time, it doesn't mean that everyone has to sit back with their mouths zipped (or fingers tied) and not have or give an opinion.

You can have whatever opinion you want. I gave you mine. You disagree. More power to you. I think the people who can't (won't?) get over it have other issues, and perhaps misplaced priorities. Of course, that's just an opinion...

Again, if the tables were turned, would YOU want the 2nd chance? Like I said, he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. Famous saying.

 

[4Robins]

Sorry, i think this entire thing has been blown way out of porportion. People call what he did horrific, and while there is really no need for what he did, it is WAY down on the list of Horrible things that can be done. I think what Michael Jackson did to those kids was 100 times worse than what Vick did. ( and yes, i know MJ was aquitted.....so was OJ wink wink, some people can buy their way out of anything) Vick served his time and should be free to do as he pleases now....isnt that how the system is supposed to work?? Some people go WAY overboard with the "rights" they think animals should have. IF things keep up like this, i can see a day when there will be little fences built into the curbs of all streets to keep squirrels and raccoons safe from cars , and if you run one over, you'll be arrested and do time.....you laugh, but i know people who think like that now!!!!!! Let it go about Vick, and let him get on with his life!!!!!!

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

It's more about this than you care to admit. People are unhappy that he is being hired, or even allowed to be hired. Legally, he's whole with the law now. People, whether they admit it or not, still don't like that. Most just won't own up to it.



You mean just like I'm DISCUSSING it? I didn't say anyone didn't have the right to support, or not support, a sports team, did I?



You can have whatever opinion you want. I gave you mine. You disagree. More power to you. I think the people who can't (won't?) get over it have other issues, and perhaps misplaced priorities. Of course, that's just an opinion...

Again, if the tables were turned, would YOU want the 2nd chance? Like I said, he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. Famous saying.

The tables would never be turned because I would never commit the offense in the first place...nor for that matter, would I ever commit any felony. I'm glad that the majority of people see it the same way I do. All of my friends IRL see it that way.

 

[lillygator]

As far as the fans, I have NEVER met a classy Raiders fan in my life. I'm not saying you're not classy because I don't know you, but I have never met one IRL.

sorry for you...there are many out there.


I am in the camp that Vick served his time....good luck to him, I think he will do really well as he has a lot to prove at this point.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Glad to hear they exist...the ones I have met have not been stellar characters.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

It's more about this than you care to admit. People are unhappy that he is being hired, or even allowed to be hired. Legally, he's whole with the law now. People, whether they admit it or not, still don't like that. Most just won't own up to it.

I don't even know what this means..."People, whether they admit it or not, still don't like that." Don't like what? That he's "whole" with the law?? I repeat...it's about the Eagles hiring him.

You mean just like I'm DISCUSSING it? I didn't say anyone didn't have the right to support, or not support, a sports team, did I?

Just as long as they don't talk about it.

You can have whatever opinion you want. I gave you mine. You disagree. More power to you. I think the people who can't (won't?) get over it have other issues, and perhaps misplaced priorities. Of course, that's just an opinion...

Yes, I did give my opinion, and you did give yours. OK. Works for me. Never said it didn't. But your opinion was about the legal issue. The topic is about the Eagles hiring him, not about the amount of time he served. You went off on a tangent that everyone should be trying to change the law confused3) rather than whining like a 4 year old, when that's not even what people were talking about.

Can't (won't) get over it? This is news as of LAST NIGHT!

Again, if the tables were turned, would YOU want the 2nd chance? Like I said, he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone. Famous saying.

Funny thing...I don't commit felonies!!!!!

This reminds me of a discussion way back on the DIS about people who STEAL from Disney by claiming their 3 year old (or older) child was only 2. One of the arguments from people who thought it was just fine..."Disney can afford it!!!"...argued back to the people who DON'T steal from Disney..."Did you NEVER do anything wrong, not even drive over the speed limit?!" Because, ALL WRONGS ARE THE SAME!! Forget to use your turn signal = torturing numerous animals for the pleasure of others! Ummm...NOT.

it is WAY down on the list of Horrible things that can be done.

What an icky statement.

 

[lillygator]

Glad to hear they exist...the ones I have met have not been stellar characters.

ugh, not worth it.....

but I think it's pretty bad to generalize all Raider fans just on the ones you met.....I mean, come on.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

All of the Raiders fans that I've met (and I've met several) have liked them specifically because they play dirty (and are usually one of the most penalized - if not the most penalized - teams in the NFL every year) and most of the fans I've met have been drug dealers, drunks (I don't mean just alcoholics....I mean nasty, dirty, disgusting drunks), or gang members (or a mixture of the three), it's the impression that I've formed of Raiders fans. Actually, if you know football you'll know that it's the opinion that the majority of NFL fans - and many NFL announcers - have of Raiders fans (and it's not exactly because we're jealous of them.)

 

[lillygator]

All of the Raiders fans that I've met (and I've met several) have liked them specifically because they play dirty (and are usually one of the most penalized - if not the most penalized - teams in the NFL every year) and most of the fans I've met have been drug dealers, drunks (I don't mean just alcoholics....I mean nasty, dirty, disgusting drunks), or gang members (or a mixture of the three), it's the impression that I've formed of Raiders fans. Actually, if you know football you'll know that it's the opinion that the majority of NFL fans - and many NFL announcers - have of Raiders fans (and it's not exactly because we're jealous of them.)

yeah - I think I know football thanks so much...but who are you hanging out with? my goodness.