michael vick signed with the eagles

[agame2323]

I live in Newport News, where Vick grew up.

He has stated he knew it was wrong when he was growing up when he saw it, but there wasn't any real punishment for it, the police weren't out looking for that.
WHen it all broke about the dog fighting, he said his cousin was living there and Vick knew nothing about it. Well, one of his boys told on him.
DOgs that weren't his, their collars were found on his property, smaller dogs that were taken from other people's yards in different cities that were used as bait for dogs to fight.
Yes, everyone should get a second chance, but you see, Vick started working with the local Boys and Girls club as a fitness assistant, that was his second chance. He said he wanted to be a positive role model. The boys and girls club took a chance with him, there were people who wanted their kids to be there just for the Vick being there.
Before all this, he and Marcus would go to the local kid's clubs and hand out presents for Christmas, but both of these guys have just totally lost their way.
Recently, Vick wanted the people of his hometown area to give a party for him, the ones who ralllied for him during the trial, the same peopkle. He didnt show up, he was doing a thing for PEta. It has all been a publicity stunt and apparently has worked.
Now the NFL says come on back. Yes, NFL has let others come back, but honestly where would it stop? You rape someone, come on back, DUI's, come on back.

I don't know what part of Newport News YOU grew up in but I was born and raised in Newport BAD NEWS VA. I attended the same high school as Allen Iverson (Bethal High) and to this day, he and I are good friends.

Anyone who grew up in Newport will tell you that dog fighting and other things go on there quite commonly. Police do indeed look away from it because there are so many other problems that take priority over it. I have witnessed it. I know people who have witnessed it and been apart of it. I’m a Sports Agent and a great deal of my clients will tell you that in the inner city this “activity” is used as a way to make money and its BIG BUSINESS.

I’ll go back to my original post. The people I want Vick to reach are those who participate or fund this type of activity. Some of you can’t relate to this and that’s okay. But please understand DOG FIGHTING IS A REAL PROBLEM. PETA can’t reach these inner city neighborhood’s where the act is also being performed. They are afraid. They act just like the New Port Police do in the manner. They look away. The difference is now they come out of hiding because there is no danger in doing so. But they (PETA) are well aware of what’s going on the inner cities but refuse to do anything about it…until now.

Now EVERYONE is a dog lover and cares so deeply for dogs. Okay then if that’s the case, jump in with both feet. Don’t just go after Vick. Go down to the neighborhoods and places that dog fighting happens and let your voice be heard the same way you are with Vick. If you really care so much about the protection of animals.

The truth is your not going to make any attempt to educate inner city youth about the dangers and inhumanity of dog fighting. But now some one is in a position to do so. If anyone can change the mind of a young kid who maybe thinking about getting invovled in this...Mike Vike can. Its bigger than football. Vick is in a position to make a change. Is there really something wrong with that? Can't he attempt to improve his community? If you lived there would you be against this? Try to think positive about this. Some of you are very close-minded

BTW..."WE" the community of New Port News still are going to give Mike Vick Celebration ceremony. We were just waiting until and team signed him so it wasn't viewed as being premature. Get your facts straight.

 

[FireDancer]

Again, even if you don't care about the animals....

• The FBI considers animal cruelty to be one of the predictors of violence and considers past animal abuse when profiling serial killers.
• National and state studies determined that from 54 to 71 percent of women seeking shelter reported that their partners had threatened, injured or killed one or more family pets (Anicare Model workshop, Tacoma 2004). If children are victims of domestic violence they may in turn represent that abuse with an animal, the only being they feel they can control.
• In assessing youth who are at risk of committing interpersonal violence, the U.S. Department of Justice emphasizes the importance of including information about past animal abuse.
• More than 80 percent of families being treated for child abuse were also involved in animal abuse. In 2/3 of the cases, the abusive parent killed or injured the pet. Sadly, in 1/3 of the cases, a child victim continued the cycle of violence by abusing a pet.
• A study in 1997 by the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Northeastern University found that 70 percent of all animal abusers have committed at least one other criminal offense and that almost 40 percent had committed violent crimes against people. They also found that over a 20-year period, a group of individuals who had abused animals as youths were five times more likely to commit violent crimes, four times more likely to commit property crimes and three times more likely to have drug or disorderly conduct offenses than a matched group of non animal abusers.

All of this shows a correlation between between criminal behavior and animal cruelty, which is there. Non of it is causative though. You can abuse animals and not escalate or you can. Bed wetting is also a precursor to sociopathic behavior but not all people who wet the bed become murderers. Again, corolation not causation.

Luckily we don't punish people for the crimes they may commit in the future, only those they did. I'm not saying make it legal, I'm saying put it in perspective to rape, child abuse, etc. Animals are things that are bought and sold. I grew up with a pet and never considered it part of the family, it was something we purchased and owned. She was fun to play with and I wouldn't abuse her, but when she died she died, not a real big deal to me. It's fine if you want to love an animal and treat it like a person, but it isn't one.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

yeah - I think I know football thanks so much...but who are you hanging out with? my goodness.

I don't hang out with them, although there was one that my ex-boyfriend used to invite to Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner because he had nowhere else to go and he felt sorry for him (I always dreaded having to have him over, but I was civil to him.) He was both a pot dealer (and who knows if he sold more than that) and a drunk....his entire trailer was covered with whiskey bottles. And most of the people I see around here that wear Raiders gear are gang members. I, myself, don't exactly hang out in those circles. I wasn't raised to be friends with people like that but I was raised to be civil to them.

 

[lillygator]

wearing a teams shirt does not make one a fan.

 

[Disney Doll]

I'd also say this - he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Any ideas where that quote came from?

Yes, it's from Jesus. And for anyone to allude to Jesus and Michael Vick in the same post is beyond ludicrous.

I'll cast a stone. I have never tortured or killed anything for sport. And I firmly believe that people who are capable of torturing or killing a defenseless animal are capable of doing the same to a human.

I predict that in a few years we'll be reading about how Michael Vick brutalized a person and everyone will be shocked.

Ridiculous...

As far as elected officials....most of the people in office now didn't get there with my vote.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

All of this shows a correlation between between criminal behavior and animal cruelty, which is there. Non of it is causative though. You can abuse animals and not escalate or you can. Bed wetting is also a precursor to sociopathic behavior but not all people who wet the bed become murderers. Again, corolation not causation.

Luckily we don't punish people for the crimes they may commit in the future, only those they did. I'm not saying make it legal, I'm saying put it in perspective to rape, child abuse, etc. Animals are things that are bought and sold. I grew up with a pet and never considered it part of the family, it was something we purchased and owned. She was fun to play with and I wouldn't abuse her, but when she died she died, not a real big deal to me. It's fine if you want to love an animal and treat it like a person, but it isn't one.

Animals are not things....and that statement makes me sick. The average dog has the intelligence of a two year old and can recognize up to 165 words and count to 5. I did consider my dog when I was growing up part of my family. She was part of my life from the time I was 11 until she died when I was 25 and both my father and I were absolutely heartbroken when she died. I still remember when my mom had to tell me she had died and the memory can still bring tears to my eyes. My father, seven years later, will still not own a dog because he does not want to go through that again. He wouldn't even talk about her for a long time, but since I started talking to him about these two dogs he will talk about her if something that they do reminds him of her. It's hard for me to feel comfortable being as attached to the dogs that I live with now (especially one of them) as I am because I know someday I will lose them but they are part of my life and I would rather love them now with the knowledge that I will lose them later than not have them in my life. And not loving dogs is a deal-breaker for me in a man.

 

[Jennasis]

No, to me it wouldn't matter at all. Our laws, which are written and voted on by the people in Congress that WE elect, specify certain sentences for certain crimes. The law specified a certain sentence for the crimes Vick was convicted of. Nobody can dispute that. Vick served the sentence he was given, according to our laws. If anyone has an issue with him now being out of prison and being able to rejoin society, WHY DON'T YOU PUT ALL YOUR HATRED AND VIGOR INTO LOBBYING YOUR ELECTED CONGRESS MEN AND WOMEN INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT IT? Judging from the lack of people actually doing that, as opposed to just complaining about Vick (which is much easier to do), it would seem that people want to complain, but not necessarily put their true feelings into action to accomplish change that they feel is necessary. If a person served a sentence for a drug charge, and then got out, should they be able to play in the NFL again? Yes, I believe they should, because legally they have paid for their crime, and if the NFL is willing to let them play again, then what is there to stop them? If you try to make the argument that the sentence should have been longer or harsher, that's my point - PUT YOUR ENERGY INTO CHANGING THE SENTENCING LAWS, DON'T JUST KEEP WHINING ABOUT MICHAEL VICK LIKE A 4-YEAR OLD!!!



Gee, didn't you essentially answer your own question - you wouldn't believe anybody if they told you "yes" anyway, so why bother with the question. Oh, would I kill for your clairvoyant abilities to read people's minds - have you won the lottery yet? Again, as I've said above, if the person served their sentence for their crime that the current sentencing laws call for, how can I complain about the person? I can complain about the sentencing laws all I want, if I don't think they're strict enough, but that isn't the fault of the criminal, it's the responsibility of those who set laws to make sure the punishment fits the crime. If I felt strongly enough, say, for example, that a pedophile who had served time was let off too leniently, while I may not be happy with the pedophile himself (or herself), what I'm REALLY saying is that I don't think the sentence fit the crime. Complaining about the pedophile doesn't do any good. If I want change, I need to work to get the change effected, and the pedophile can't do anything about that.



I view it as a crime. I don't condone what he did - it was wrong, and he broke the law, which he was convicted of, and served prison time for, and was suspended from the NFL for. Those facts are indisputable.

Do I view it as serious as others do? No, I'm sure I don't. Do I think it's as serious as murder, rape, child abuse, etc...? No, I don't, principally because those crimes involve humans, while Vick's involves animals. Feel free to flame me for that if you wish, but I personally don't hold animal life as highly as I hold human life. Was he wrong in what he did? Yes, he was, I'm not saying he wasn't. I just don't think it's as bad as others do.

I'd also say this - he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Any ideas where that quote came from?

To the first part, perhaps I was hasty. Sure I might believe them, but it would certainly make me think a whole heckuva lot less of them.

To the second part, my powers are great. I am currently working on the lottery thing. Will let you know how it turns out.

And for the third part. Quoting the bible doesn't make you right any more than it would make my opinion "right". How about "an eye for an eye"?

 

[agame2323]

Gross. Really. It's one thing to be "well, he deserves a second chance" (which I don't agree with, anyways) but to be cheering? Really? Yuck.

I wonder if Vick had all his teeth pulled out - like he did to one of his dogs? I wonder if Vick ever was tied to a 'rape rack' - like he did to one of his dogs? I wonder if he was ever drown, beaten, electrocuted buried alive - like he did to his dogs??

You know, and contrary to popular belief, not all Pits are 'gamey' - in fact most don't make good fighting dogs. Known and convicted pit breeders/fighters have said numerous times, they're lucky if they get *one* puppy from a litter with the 'game' in them. Which means he was beating, drowning, electrocuting a whole lot of them. Go Vick? Really????

And you're wrong. He was on my radar, when my son looked up to him as a player.

First off all we all know what he did to those dogs so you describing those actions add nothing to the problem nor does it create a solution. So its basically pointless at this stange.

Secondly, these people who “cheered” did it from a football prospective. Not everyone is looking at this through the same eyes as you.

Lastly and most importantly, you and your son were familiar with Mike Vick the “football” player. You don’t understand him as a person nor the world of dog fighting because you were never involved in it. How YOU feel is irrelevant. However, there are people who come from that world or are actively involved in dog fighting that need to hear and see someone they identify with. I could care less if you understand it or not because you are not someone engaging in those activities. I want to change the minds of those who are. They are the real threat towards animals.

 

[lillygator]

Yes, it's from Jesus. And for anyone to allude to Jesus and Michael Vick in the same post is beyond ludicrous.

I'll cast a stone. I have never tortured or killed anything for sport. And I firmly believe that people who are capable of torturing or killing a defenseless animal are capable of doing the same to a human.

I predict that in a few years we'll be reading about how Michael Vick brutalized a person and everyone will be shocked.

Ridiculous...

As far as elected officials....most of the people in office now didn't get there with my vote.

ok so what about all the people who have killed, roaches, mice, rats, spiders, squirrels, chipmunks, etc....they are all capable to do that to a human? At what point does it matter re the animal?
what about hunting for sport?

 

[Disney Doll]

ok so what about all the people who have killed, roaches, mice, rats, spiders, squirrels, chipmunks, etc....they are all capable to do that to a human? At what point does it matter re the animal?
what about hunting for sport?

If you can't see the difference between torturing a dog and stepping on a spider, then I can't really see much point in having a dialogue with you.

I disagree with hunting for sport. I don't randomly kill mice, rats, squirrels or chipmunks. I will admit I ran over a chipmunk once and felt terrible about it, quite frankly.

I have stepped on a couple of bugs in my day, so I guess that does make me equivalent to Michael Vick who electrocuted, strangled, and "rape-racked" animals...yes, I can see the similarities between us.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

ok so what about all the people who have killed, roaches, mice, rats, spiders, squirrels, chipmunks, etc....they are all capable to do that to a human? At what point does it matter re the animal?
what about hunting for sport?

Other than the roaches, mice, rats, spiders, and snakes I tend to not agree with killing animals. The difference to me is that all of those carry some pretty nasty diseases or can be poisonous (and I don't really want to get close enough to a spider or snake to make sure of whether it's a poisonous one or not...the risk of being bitten is too high.) I would prefer to use a no-kill trap for mice and even rats and release them in a rural area.
As far as hunting for sport, my dad is a hunter BUT he is a hunter who hunts for food and doesn't agree with hunting for sport and I feel the same way. I love venison, elk, pheasant, and (more locally) wild boar but I don't like killing an animal just to say that you killed it.

 

[brp]

and that statement makes me sick.

Seems to be a lot of people getting "sick" in this thread and bringing in all manner of mythical beings like god and jesus in order to justify points, heal the sinners who don't think that this is the worst thing since WWII atrocities, and "bless" those who do.

Then there are the minority who find amusement in the angst, outrage and overblown hype put on display here. I find myself among the latter, of course...and no need to "pray for me."

And, no, NO ONE here condones what he did. It's just a difference of opinion on how he moves forward from here. Those that believe in god should be happy in the knowledge that Vick will be judged at the appropriate time in that "higher court." For the rest of us, we know he'll be judged by the QB rating...and that takes precedence now

Cheers.

 

[FireDancer]

Animals are not things....and that statement makes me sick. The average dog has the intelligence of a two year old and can recognize up to 165 words and count to 5.

Count to 5...wooopeee. We invented algebra and have gone to the moon. If the dogs were so smart why didn't they work it out in the ring with intellect instead of violence? You know, something like

"Hey, these humans want us to fight it out for their amusement"
"I know, perhaps we should fashion an escape plan like those crazy guys in Hogan's Heroes"
"Good idea"
Now that would impress me.

As far as not being things. An animal can be bought, sold, stolen, and damage to an animal is civil court is treated as damage to property. People, at least in this country and this millennium, can be none of the above.

Again, don't misinterpret me to say I am pro violence against animals, I just don't think it should be punished at the same level as crimes against people. In this country we have a penal system that determines the fitting punishment for a crime and juries that determine the fiduciary punishment for torts and civil matters. It just is what it is.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I'm not saying make it legal, I'm saying put it in perspective to rape, child abuse, etc.

So, if one is worse than the other, the "lesser" one doesn't matter? I don't think one person on this thread said that rape and child abuse are OK, but this isn't.

I grew up with a pet and never considered it part of the family, it was something we purchased and owned.

Well, good for you?? And the point is...??

She was fun to play with and I wouldn't abuse her

Why not? Because it's evil, despicable and against the law? Ya think?

but when she died she died, not a real big deal to me.

How unfortunate for your pet. I'm assuming since you mention the fact that you grew up with one, and not that you have one now, that you don't.

ok so what about all the people who have killed, roaches, mice, rats, spiders, squirrels, chipmunks, etc....they are all capable to do that to a human? At what point does it matter re the animal?
what about hunting for sport?

There are legitimate reasons to get rid of certain animals...even dogs...illness, disease, public nuisance. I would NEVER condone torturing ANY animal, under ANY circumstances.

 

[Kim&Chris]

ok so what about all the people who have killed, roaches, mice, rats, spiders, squirrels, chipmunks, etc....they are all capable to do that to a human? At what point does it matter re the animal?
what about hunting for sport?

Not the same thing at all. Vick had one female Pit named Georgia, and hired a vet to come in and pull all her teeth. Once her teeth were removed & she did not pose a threat to any male dogs, she was strapped into a device called a Rape Rack, where she would be 'raped' by males.

His dogs were electrocuted and drowned. They'd be forced to run on treadmills until they collapsed with exhaustion. They were beaten mercilessly to make them more ferocious.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4228233&page=1

 

[FireDancer]

So, if one is worse than the other, the "lesser" one doesn't matter?

It matters in perspective. Just like Jay walking should be punished differently than murder abuse of an animal should be punished differently than crimes against a human. He got his punishment and served it so the issue should be closed.

I don't think one person on this thread said that rape and child abuse are OK, but this isn't.

No, but a PP had stated that letting dogs fight eachother was just as bad as rape and child abuse. You can look it up...I'll wait.

Well, good for you?? And the point is...??

The point is that you can have and not abuse an animal without some kind of weird person like love for the thing.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

It matters in perspective. Just like Jay walking should be punished differently than murder abuse of an animal should be punished differently than crimes against a human. He got his punishment and served it so the issue should be closed.

No, but a PP had stated that letting dogs fight eachother was just as bad as rape and child abuse. You can look it up...I'll wait.

The point is that you can have and not abuse an animal without some kind of weird person like love for the thing.

Firedancer, she doesn't have to look it up. I do believe that the abuse that Vick put the dogs through (and I'm not necessarily talking about letting them fight, although that is wrong as well...I'm talking about the things that CathrynRose mentioned such as having a vet pull every one of that dog's teeth and then putting her on the "rape rack") is just as bad as child molestation because it's abusing the defenseless and even worse, a living being who is counting on you for its survival. And there are far more people that have a "weird person like love for the thing" than those who have a weird coldness towards an animal that they grow up with.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

As exhausting as this is...

It matters in perspective. Just like Jay walking should be punished differently than murder abuse of an animal should be punished differently than crimes against a human. He got his punishment and served it so the issue should be closed.

He was punished differently than crimes against a human, wasn't he??? The issue IS closed, legally, isn't it???? I already said...but I'll say it again...some people feel, and are discussing that fact, that what he did is despicable and shouldn't be condoned by a team by hiring him. It doesn't have to have the backing of legalities for people to be disgusted and outraged by his actions, and the Eagles choice to hire him.

Did you ever see the picture of the teenager who was killed in a horrific car accident, where her face was basically ripped off and she was flung like a rag doll over the twisted car door? Well, a police officer who took the pictures emailed them to people, and they ended up on the Internet, for her parents to see and for disgusting pigs to make comments like "not so pretty anymore, is she?" and "she deserved it." And you know what? The police officer apparently didn't do anything wrong, legally. Oh well then...it MUST be OK! Why be outraged if it wasn't illegal? Why be outraged by his choice to do that if it WAS illegal, and he served his (probably paid) suspension or whatever? Why give it a second thought? Why think anything negative about the people who posted that horrific stuff about a couple's dead daughter? They CAN, you know...it's The Internet! They didn't kill her; they didn't post the pictures. So what, right? Heck...anything goes!

No, but a PP had stated that letting dogs fight each other was just as bad as rape and child abuse. You can look it up...I'll wait.

Wait all you want. Don't know, don't care, who posted it. YOU look it up if you want. It doesn't have to be THE SAME in the eyes of the law to be just as despicable.

The point is that you can have and not abuse an animal without some kind of weird person like love for the thing.

OK.

 

[FireDancer]

Firedancer, she doesn't have to look it up. I do believe that the abuse that Vick put the dogs through (and I'm not necessarily talking about letting them fight, although that is wrong as well...I'm talking about the things that CathrynRose mentioned such as having a vet pull every one of that dog's teeth and then putting her on the "rape rack") is just as bad as child molestation because it's abusing the defenseless and even worse, a living being who is counting on you for its survival. And there are far more people that have a "weird person like love for the thing" than those who have a weird coldness towards an animal that they grow up with.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I think, which is fare enough.

The only reason any animal depends on us for survival is because we found it necessary to domesticate them at some point in history. Dogs survived on this planet a long time without any human intervention and they still do in the wild.

Quite Frankly I could care less what he did. I care as much about what Vick did as I would about the color someone in Phoenix paints their laundry room. I can't be bothered getting outraged over anything that doesn't effect humans. It's like all these "Save the Whales" campaigns. Once all the people are taken care of we can start caring about the whales.

 

[sbell111]

Seems to be a lot of people getting "sick" in this thread and bringing in all manner of mythical beings like god and jesus in order to justify points, heal the sinners who don't think that this is the worst thing since WWII atrocities, and "bless" those who do.

Then there are the minority who find amusement in the angst, outrage and overblown hype put on display here. I find myself among the latter, of course...and no need to "pray for me."

And, no, NO ONE here condones what he did. It's just a difference of opinion on how he moves forward from here. Those that believe in god should be happy in the knowledge that Vick will be judged at the appropriate time in that "higher court." For the rest of us, we know he'll be judged by the QB rating...and that takes precedence now

Cheers.

Interesting post as it reminds me of why the poster who said that she will 'pray for me' made me laugh. You see, as much as I was horrified that he was involved in dog fighting and I really, really wanted him sent to jail, I don't have the expectation that now that he has been released that he should never work again.

Instead, my faith leads me to believe that people can find redemption even after doing horrible things. Michael Vick claims to have turned a coner on these horrible activities. Those close to him apparently believe that he is sincere in this. Therefore, I am willing to give him the benefit if the doubt and see what happens.

To those that believe that people convicted of felonies should never be allowed to reenter society, not only do I disagree, but the position makes no sense. Forcing these people to hide in the shadows all but forces them back into the old lifestyle errors.

Before anyone suggests that I know not of what I speak, I will mention that I have hired people with 'pasts'. I'll spare you the specifics, but one had an attempted murder conviction and turned out awesome. She stayed with us for about three years and I gave her one promotion. Recently, I hired a guy with two strikes. He appeared to have left that stuff behind him, so we gave him a chance. It's too early to really tell if he's going to work out, but so far so good.