Membership Magic Beyond

[Genie+]

It is in DVD’s best interest to keep the collection of complimentary perks valuable enough to differentiate from resale.

That is why I’m not bothered with this. They added stuff this year on top of what already existed. They did the Welcome Home weeks, they added a second round of AK to Moonlight Magic which increased the potential to 6 separate opportunities per member this year. 2 lounges added.

There’s still this very nice package of perks that has already made improvements this year. So if a thing or 2 gets adjusted slightly downward, the total collection is still maintaining overall potential value.

Starting from that point, Beyond is an addition. For $99 I can access a level of perks beyond the original package, and that package is still maintaining its original collective value.

 

[J-Dog]

I am genuinely curious if the options were:
1: close all the lounges
2: introduce priority access to lounges to offset costs as apart of a new membership program

What camp would you be in? If, for whatever reason that was the decision that had to be made, which would you choose?

I would respond with 2 points:

1) To answer your question, I would pick "close all the lounges", because, as many are saying here, it's the slippery slope of arbitrarily creating 2 classes of DVC owner that is the problem. Lounge access itself is minor comparted to that.

But 2) I'm not sure that there is any clause in the POS or anywhere else that says that the lounges must be self-supporting. Is there? We know that they are adding this $99 charge anyway - even if they get rid of the lounge access, why can't the revenue from MMB still be used to support the lounges?

 

[Genie+]

I am genuinely curious if the options were:
1: close all the lounges
2: introduce priority access to lounges to offset costs as apart of a new membership program

What camp would you be in? If, for whatever reason that was the decision that had to be made, which would you choose?

Yes, I prefer this method because in totality it holds a higher potential value for us. I’d never expect this many benefits (in total and at the same time) to be included in the original perk package. Maybe that’s why I don’t feel slighted somehow.

 

[tx911]

It is in DVD’s best interest to keep the collection of complimentary perks valuable enough to differentiate from resale.

That is why I’m not bothered with this. They added stuff this year on top of what already existed. They did the Welcome Home weeks, they added a second round of AK to Moonlight Magic which increased the potential to 6 separate opportunities per member this year. 2 lounges added.

There’s still this very nice package of perks that has already made improvements this year. So if a thing or 2 gets adjusted slightly downward, the total collection is still maintaining overall potential value.

Starting from that point, Beyond is an addition. For $99 I can access a level of perks beyond the original package, and that package is still maintaining its original collective value.

I think most of us see this as a good value for the $99.

It just that irritating lounge part...

 

[Genie+]

But 2) I'm not sure that there is any clause in the POS or anywhere else that says that the lounges must be self-supporting. Is there?

Why would this even matter though? Lounges are not what was purchased in the POS. Lounges are a marketing tool that comes out of DVD’s pocket. It stands to reason they’d want a return on any perks they pay for, so it’s reasonable to think that lounges must be self-supporting to make it worthwhile for DVD to offer them.

 

[Sandisw]

Could Disney legally change up any of the booking windows with resorts for those who do join? Could they give them some type of advantage? Could they give those a head start in booking things like MM, dining reservations or park tours? What about priority room request? Could that be a possibility?

They can’t change the booking rules for home resort as those have to be the same for everyone. They can make the home resort period longer or shorter but it can’t be less than one month.

The ability to trade to other resorts is a function of a resort trading within BVTC. That is governed by the resort agreement.

While they can make changes to that like change a fee, it would be resort based and not owner based.

The other things you mention like priority for MM registration? Thst already exists in that those who have reservations get to register early.

Rules around membership extras, because they are not part of the contract and are incidental benefits, can be whatever DVC want them to be.

Some of what you mention would be in the control of Disney and not DVC, like dining etc and I don’t ever see Disney prioritizing DVC owners over cash guests for those things.

What DVC can’t do is force owners to pay a fee for things that are an incidental benefit. Thst is why this new program is offering owners additional benefits for a fee, but it does not require owners to purchase.

 

[Hubalorian]

But 2) I'm not sure that there is any clause in the POS or anywhere else that says that the lounges must be self-supporting. Is there? We know that they are adding this $99 charge anyway - even if they get rid of the lounge access, why can't the revenue from MMB still be used to support the lounges?

Why would Disney want to introduce a program to offset lounge cost that has nothing to do with the lounges?

Keep in mind lounge access is limited once per day with priority, and must be staying on points (ambiguous if it must be direct points or not) to use priority access

 

[Sandisw]

Why would this even matter though? Lounges are not what was purchased in the POS. Lounges are a marketing tool that comes out of DVD’s pocket. It stands to reason they’d want a return on any perks they pay for, so it’s reasonable to think that lounges must be self-supporting to make it worthwhile for DVD to offer them.

Not to mention that the $99 fee is not simply there to gain access to a priority waitlist and that is it.

That $99 fee is being used to offset the cost of the reduction in price for the Memory Maker, BOGO free OTU points, elimination of the $95 fee to use the Disney collection, the reduction in price for the multi day ticket and to add the option to trade points for the AP.

The priority lounge aspect was simply put in as an extra that offers no real value to anyone.

The optics of pay for play are just that, aren’t they?

Now, if they had said we are adding a $99 fee to purchase OTU points or say we are charging $99 for being eligible to join a priority waitlist for the lounge, then its pure pay for play.

This $99 is not that because it comes with a big reduction in the prices of items currently offered for sale.

Now, owners who object to the priority waitlist being included because offering priority anything is a concern, should of course let DVC know there opinion.

 

[lowlight]

The priority lounge aspect was simply put in as an extra that offers no real value to anyone.

The optics of pay for play are just that, aren’t they?

See, I disagree with you and believe the lounge priority was the true goal and everything else is window dressing. Not that lounge priority was a big deal, it’s a trial balloon that they may have assumed most would be ok with. Really, we have no idea the reasoning so it’s just speculation on both sides.

 

[Sandisw]

See, I disagree with you and believe the lounge priority was the true goal and everything else is window dressing. Not that lounge priority was a big deal, it’s a trial balloon that they may have assumed most would be ok with. Really, we have no idea the reasoning so it’s just speculation on both sides.

You are right, we don’t know why they included it. It’s possible is it of things to come or it’s possible they got info from owners that it would be seen as positive.

However, they included a lot of discounts for owners with it and regardless of motivation for the lounge, owners are getting discounts on real things that we currently don’t have.

I guess each of us has to weigh that when deciding how to view what DVC did in creating this new program.

For 2025, DVC Y owners are getting more discounts and not less.

 

[Genie+]

Now, owners who object to the priority waitlist being included because offering priority anything is a concern, should of course let DVC know there opinion.

Totally agree with everything.

People should voice concern if this is alarming to them. That could help Disney and DVD in how they execute and word this stuff going forward.

I think they probably did weigh all of this already. The cost/benefit of how it would be perceived and how it is expected to function. Obviously they are not impervious to making mistakes. Genie+ for example, needed major changes somewhat early on.

I’m feeling more optimistic lately as far as WDW making adjustments though. For years they pushed hard as demand rocketed and more recently they seem to be prioritizing customer experience instead. The latest run of changes seem geared toward improving the value proposition. Makes sense as peak demand never lasts forever. That has softened and Epic is opening 2025. The ball is back in our court to some extent and that is motivating them to care more about what we are getting for our money.

 

[zavandor]

That $99 fee is being used to offset the cost of the reduction in price for the Memory Maker, BOGO free OTU points, elimination of the $95 fee to use the Disney collection, the reduction in price for the multi day ticket and to add the option to trade points for the AP.

This is pure speculation.

OTU points don't cost Disney $20, they cost just the amount they lose if a member use those points to book a room they cannot rent.
It's possible Disney forecasts they'll not be able to rent all their points next year, so getting $10 back is a better deal than 0.

Points used for exchanges pay themselves already, given what an awful value they are, the $95 is just icing on the cake. Again, if the elimination of the fee pushes more members to book an exchange it might repay itself.

The memory maker and the discounted tickets are perks contracted with another division. We do not know if DVC pays them anything.
We know for sure that Disney is forecasting a slow period ahead. Iger told so to investors and all discounts are bigger than in previous years. It's not unreasonable to think that Parks and Resorts agreed to give those perks to DVC members to incentivize stays and do not go to Epic Universe. Similar things happened in the past (discounted tickets and free upgrade to an AP with the waterparks).

Maybe the $99 fee is needed to offset some costs and maybe it isn't. Who knows.

 

[2010dvcfan]

See, I disagree with you and believe the lounge priority was the true goal and everything else is window dressing. Not that lounge priority was a big deal, it’s a trial balloon that they may have assumed most would be ok with. Really, we have no idea the reasoning so it’s just speculation on both sides.

My line of thinking also, the whole thing is about charging for priority access, this is the test run, the other items are to hide behind disguised as an opportunity of great value to the DVC members with these offerings that cost Disney next to nothing. When it reality it's a hook. they want to see how many will bite.

No one on this thread truly believes DVC can't afford to run these lounges, do they? DVC is a cash cow, if it wasn't they'd have shut it down decades ago, instead they are building resorts faster then ever. As they stack more members they will look for ways to devalue the product behind the guise of money saving offerings.

For preface, I don't even use the lounges never sit foot in one of them, when I'm ready for park break, I want a lounge chair by the pool and a couple of margaritas.

There is really no need to offer any perks to direct members at all anymore, with the resale restrictions you must own direct to use the product as solicited to me and experience all resorts available in the inventory. That is the direct benefit now.

Does anyone remember the last year they offered annual pass discount to DVC members, was it 2018? That was the last year I renewed, I can't remember if they took that away with the announcement of resale restrictions or year after.

It will be interesting to reflect back on this thread in a couple of years see how well it has aged.

 

[Bearval]

I didn’t mean it to sound condescending and I apologize if it was seen that way.

I meant it to show that we all get to make all our own decisions and that if you are worried about those things it’s okay to feel that way…it’s not wrong.

What is wrong is expecting any other owner who sees this as a positive thing and then making a determination of whether it’s good or not good for them to say they are not correct.

Disney can be a winner while at the same time so can and so can owners. Of course, DVC is expecting this to net them something. Businesses don’t do things if they don’t. They are counting on DVC now buying some of this, like the MM, they they didn’t before because the lowered the price…

But, that doesn’t mean the consumer can’t win too. What this program offers any owner who decides to purchase it IS real savings or they won’t buy it. Saying that is not true is simply not accurate.

You can call it a paywall or whatever you want because you pay something upfront but the bulk of the options offered are reducing the current cost of what those same options will cost today.

OTU points are $20. They are now $10 with this program. MM is $210 and it will now be $99. And 5 day tickets are going to be discounted and they are not today.

If I spend, as a member of this program, $350 for MM and OTU points because I seee a benefit in those products and another owner is paying $700 for those same products for not joining, then regardless of what DVC makes off me because I paid $99 upfront, I am still spending half of what the other owner is spending for the same exact things.

Yes, we spent lots for DVC and I’m sorry that not all of us view extras in the same way, but in this particular case, owners who choose to buy will be on the winning end, regardless of how much money it generates for TWDC, because they aren’t buying if it isn’t a good deal for them personally

It’s really as simple as that.

Lets call this what it really is. This is a way for Disney to push more people to buy direct points for FOMO. The new restrictions of not being able to use the newer resorts with resale points didn't have as big an impact that disney had hoped for, but for $99 ( at least for the 1st year) I am definitely buying in. MM, BOGO one time use points and a discount on tickets? I will be ahead on this deal.

 

[Sandisw]

This is pure speculation.

OTU points don't cost Disney $20, they cost just the amount they lose if a member use those points to book a room they cannot rent.
It's possible Disney forecasts they'll not be able to rent all their points next year, so getting $10 back is a better deal than 0.

Points used for exchanges pay themselves already, given what an awful value they are, the $95 is just icing on the cake. Again, if the elimination of the fee pushes more members to book an exchange it might repay itself.

The memory maker and the discounted tickets are perks contracted with another division. We do not know if DVC pays them anything.
We know for sure that Disney is forecasting a slow period ahead. Iger told so to investors and all discounts are bigger than in previous years. It's not unreasonable to think that Parks and Resorts agreed to give those perks to DVC members to incentivize stays and do not go to Epic Universe. Similar things happened in the past (discounted tickets and free upgrade to an AP with the waterparks).

Maybe the $99 fee is needed to offset some costs and maybe it isn't. Who knows.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I’m not talking simply about the $99 offsetting the cost to Disney. I am talking about it offsetting the cost to owners as well who pay those fees already to DVC and did play a role in the way DVC set up this program.

Let’s just take BOGO free OTU points. DVC charges $20\pt today. Not sure what profit margin has to do with that because DVC, as a business, sets the price, not the consumer.

The $99 an owner is paying, in part is offsetting the cost of those “free” points to that owner, who is now paying $10/pt for them, but it also helps to soften the loss to DVC of the gross profit they were getting per point.

It comes down to the lense you look at this I guess? I look at it as what are owners paying now and what will they be paying for the same product next year.

No question, IMO, DVC is hoping that by reducing the cost of things, more people will actually purchase them…increase volume which ultimately increases their revenue.

Not sure why that is a bad thing if individual owners benefit as well.

In the end, this program is changing the benefits for owners and is providing discounts.

One can debate that Disney shouldn’t charge $20/pt for points they own or that $210 for the Memory Maker is way over priced but to me, that is a different conversation

I simply don’t see how the MMB program as a whole is taking the membership extras backwards and not forward.

We do have to remember that there are a lot of people out there who do value priority access to things and that there very well may be owners out there who take no issue with being able to pay for a priority waitlist, even if as an individual one disagree.

 

[DonMacGregor]

So now we're speculating that this whole huge process, including coordination with other divisions within the company, was done with the ultimate goal of charging a fee for a perk (lounge access) utilized by a ridiculously small percentage of DVC owners.

Got it.

 

[Sandisw]

Lets call this what it really is. This is a way for Disney to push more people to buy direct points for FOMO. The new restrictions of not being able to use the newer resorts with resale points didn't have as big an impact that disney had hoped for, but for $99 ( at least for the 1st year) I am definitely buying in. MM, BOGO one time use points and a discount on tickets? I will be ahead on this deal.

I don’t think any of us who think this is an enhancement to our benefits have implied that DVC is doing it from the goodness of their heart. I certainly have not.

They are are a business and their goal is to sell DVC to new people and get them to buy direct with the whole FOMO aspect. . I expect them and any business to do what they do to raise profits.

Having said that, it doesn’t mean that owners can’t win at the same time and at least for 2025 we are being given discounts that do that.

This all does come back to the expectations that each of us has when it comes to membership extras and our opinion on the motives behind decisions DVC makes.

For me, I’m taking the wins when I can. I’m not worrying about what may or may not happen in the future.

 

[tx911]

People should voice concern if this is alarming to them. That could help Disney and DVD in how they execute and word this stuff going forward.

I'm just going to channel Demi Moore in "A Few Good Men":

DVC, I strenuously object to this lounge perk!

 

[lowlight]

So now we're speculating that this whole huge process, including coordination with other divisions within the company, was done with the ultimate goal of charging a fee for a perk (lounge access) utilized by a ridiculously small percentage of DVC owners.

Got it.

Me. I'm speculating that. You can disagree, but there isn't any need to be flippant about it. I named a few other areas where DVC has pushed the envelope, likely intentionally, to see what they could get away with. I just don't see this being any different. If this were $250 and didn't include lounge access, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

 

[Hubalorian]

My line of thinking also, the whole thing is about charging for priority access, this is the test run, the other items are to hide behind disguised as an opportunity of great value to the DVC members with these offerings that cost Disney next to nothing. When it reality it's a hook. they want to see how many will bite.

No one on this thread truly believes DVC can't afford to run these lounges, do they? DVC is a cash cow, if it wasn't they'd have shut it down decades ago, instead they are building resorts faster then ever. As they stack more members they will look for ways to devalue the product behind the guise of money saving offerings.

For preface, I don't even use the lounges never sit foot in one of them, when I'm ready for park break, I want a lounge chair by the pool and a couple of margaritas.

There is really no need to offer any perks to direct members at all anymore, with the resale restrictions you must own direct to use the product as solicited to me and experience all resorts available in the inventory. That is the direct benefit now.

Does anyone remember the last year they offered annual pass discount to DVC members, was it 2018? That was the last year I renewed, I can't remember if they took that away with the announcement of resale restrictions or year after.

It will be interesting to reflect back on this thread in a couple of years see how well it has aged.

DVC is more resistant to other types of traveling delays or cancellations. So it helps Disney have a more predictable travel expectancy plus it helps offset maintenance of the resorts. Those two factors are very valuable. Don’t forget, it wasn’t too long ago DVC was called out in a shareholder meeting for not pulling its weight or meeting sale targets. So that department may be under more scrutiny then its used to by the spreadsheet analyst in power.