Membership Magic Beyond

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Ya, this is what I see. And if they will do this, what will they do next? Slippery slope? Is it a one time $99 fee? Or every year?

The one thing I am sure of is that it will not be $99 the second year.

 

[xdan0920]

Those that will choose to purchase this will do so because they end up saving much more than the $99 fee. If they won’t, then they won’t buy.

I completely and totally disagree. And so does DVD for that matter. They are banking on a majority of members buying this, and having very little usage of the "benefits". It is a new income stream for Disney, one that costs them nothing to implement.

If someone doesn’t see value, that’s okay. If they are worried it’s a slippery slope and they don’t trust DVC to change all benefits That’s okay. They don’t like when Disney makes any money…that’s okay too

This is extraordinarily condescending. People pay 10s of thousands of dollars to join DVC, and guess where that money goes? TWDC. Then those same people head to WDW every year, a lot of them multiple times a year, buying tickets, and merch, and food...and that money goes to....TWDC. It isn't about that. It is about putting benefits for being DVC behind a paywall. It is gross, and unfortunate. I wouldn't even call it a slippery slope, we know where this is going.

 

[Sandisw]

I completely and totally disagree. And so does DVD for that matter. They are banking on a majority of members buying this, and having very little usage of the "benefits". It is a new income stream for Disney, one that costs them nothing to implement.

This is extraordinarily condescending. People pay 10s of thousands of dollars to join DVC, and guess where that money goes? TWDC. Then those same people head to WDW every year, a lot of them multiple times a year, buying tickets, and merch, and food...and that money goes to....TWDC. It isn't about that. It is about putting benefits for being DVC behind a paywall. It is gross, and unfortunate. I wouldn't even call it a slippery slope, we know where this is going.

I didn’t mean it to sound condescending and I apologize if it was seen that way.

I meant it to show that we all get to make all our own decisions and that if you are worried about those things it’s okay to feel that way…it’s not wrong.

What is wrong is expecting any other owner who sees this as a positive thing and then making a determination of whether it’s good or not good for them to say they are not correct.

Disney can be a winner while at the same time so can and so can owners. Of course, DVC is expecting this to net them something. Businesses don’t do things if they don’t. They are counting on DVC now buying some of this, like the MM, they they didn’t before because the lowered the price…

But, that doesn’t mean the consumer can’t win too. What this program offers any owner who decides to purchase it IS real savings or they won’t buy it. Saying that is not true is simply not accurate.

You can call it a paywall or whatever you want because you pay something upfront but the bulk of the options offered are reducing the current cost of what those same options will cost today.

OTU points are $20. They are now $10 with this program. MM is $210 and it will now be $99. And 5 day tickets are going to be discounted and they are not today.

If I spend, as a member of this program, $350 for MM and OTU points because I seee a benefit in those products and another owner is paying $700 for those same products for not joining, then regardless of what DVC makes off me because I paid $99 upfront, I am still spending half of what the other owner is spending for the same exact things.

Yes, we spent lots for DVC and I’m sorry that not all of us view extras in the same way, but in this particular case, owners who choose to buy will be on the winning end, regardless of how much money it generates for TWDC, because they aren’t buying if it isn’t a good deal for them personally

It’s really as simple as that.

 

[SL6827]

The one thing I am sure of is that it will not be $99 the second year.

You are oh so right on that!!

 

[zackiedawg]

Same thing that happens on Guardians of the Galaxy, they take so many buy-up guests before they take the "standby" guests. I don't see that being a big issue in practice though. I mean, like I said the most I've ever waited for a table at the Epcot lounge (back when it was the only lounge in the entire DVC portfolio) was maybe 10 minutes. Often it's a walk-up. I don't see that changing, to be honest.

You may have been luckier than some - depends on how often you're in the parks. As someone who lives within a reasonable driving distance, I can be in the parks up to 30-35 days a year, so I have lots of visits to the lounge each year - and I've had wait times of 30 minutes a few times a year. Those same times of year should expect to see the wait times be around the same for the $99 crowd, while the wait time will stretch even longer for the rest who didn't pay. A wait time of 45 minutes to an hour will likely preclude even going to the lounge that day for many because they've got other reservations, LLs, and plans - so in effect, they were denied a visit t the lounge because of their lower status.

And don't forget too - with the new 'character interactions' being hosted in the lounge various times a day, there will be times when someone wanting to visit the lounge between lunch and a ride might be told that it's only open for the character meets from 1-2pm, for example...exactly when they had a window to visit. Again, they are now denied the lounge probably for that day. How many times a day will they have these special character events and how long will each close the lounge to everyone else? We don't know - all in all it is pretty well guaranteed to impact the experience of regular DVC members who don't pay more.

While the other benefits being offered for this $99 fee may prove useful or interesting to many DVCers, and all of those being extra or additional things offered that don't impact the experiences of other DVC members...and no one should have any reason to complain about those, I think MOST of us here can agree, whether you want or do not want this $99 offer, that they should have just left the member lounge out of it. Offer everything else, even add some things - paid extras that are over and above the regular DVC experience are fine - but taking away free benefits current members have and offering them at extra cost to those willing to pay is not a good look, and really is the primary controversy causing all these complaints and problems. Disney should at least see that, and realize the error - strip that out of the offer, and pretty much all current DVC members stop complaining and are happy, and some will opt to hand over more money for the paid perks they get.

 

[zavandor]

The new characters meet and greets will not be in the Epcot lounge. Not to pierce the illusion, but "characters" have to rest every 20 minutes or so and there is no backstage in the Epcot lounge (there is not even a restroom). It'll be in the new lounge in the MK or in the DS one. My money is on DS, to spread interest.

 

[zavandor]

I didn’t mean it to sound condescending and I apologize if it was seen that way.

I meant it to show that we all get to make all our own decisions and that if you are worried about those things it’s okay to feel that way…it’s not wrong.

What is wrong is expecting any other owner who sees this as a positive thing and then making a determination of whether it’s good or not good for them to say they are not correct.

Disney can be a winner while at the same time so can and so can owners. Of course, DVC is expecting this to net them something. Businesses don’t do things if they don’t. They are counting on DVC now buying some of this, like the MM, they they didn’t before because the lowered the price…

But, that doesn’t mean the consumer can’t win too. What this program offers any owner who decides to purchase it IS real savings or they won’t buy it. Saying that is not true is simply not accurate.

You can call it a paywall or whatever you want because you pay something upfront but the bulk of the options offered are reducing the current cost of what those same options will cost today.

OTU points are $20. They are now $10 with this program. MM is $210 and it will now be $99. And 5 day tickets are going to be discounted and they are not today.

If I spend, as a member of this program, $350 for MM and OTU points because I seee a benefit in those products and another owner is paying $700 for those same products for not joining, then regardless of what DVC makes off me because I paid $99 upfront, I am still spending half of what the other owner is spending for the same exact things.

Yes, we spent lots for DVC and I’m sorry that not all of us view extras in the same way, but in this particular case, owners who choose to buy will be on the winning end, regardless of how much money it generates for TWDC, because they aren’t buying if it isn’t a good deal for them personally

It’s really as simple as that.

There is another point of view: in the past a ticket discount was offered to everyone eligible.
So, if for example, the tickets discount allows someone buying for the whole family to save $150, under this program they save a net $51, If DVC had decided to continue to offer the discount to everyone for free, the saving would be $150.

DVC can certainly decide to offer a paid programme and members can freely decide to buy into it. And they're entitled to be disgruntled by it as well. I think it's a legitimate reaction.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think it's a legitimate reaction.

It is legitimate. But it's also arguably self-defeating. I can spend time and emotional energy being disgruntled by things that I can't control, or I can just accept it and move on.

That sounds trite, but for me there is some real truth behind it. I've written about this before, but Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same as "Disney wants me to be happy," but it is easy to confuse the two. Price increases or perk devaluations make it more obvious that Disney and I are in an adversarial relationship. Disney's goal is to get as much of my money for the lowest investment possible. My goal is to get as much fun possible from each dollar.

If I think the balance of that relationship tips too far in Disney's favor, my remedy is simple: Stop going.

 

[permavac]

I love the new MMB offering EXCEPT for the line cutting at the lounge and exclusion of non-US members.

I don't disagree with those advocating to vote with your dollars but, to me, not buying it tells Disney I'm not interested in ANY of these offerings and that's not true.

I'm ok that they're charging $99 because the end result after I pay that $99 is a net monetary savings to me (specifically on OTUPs that I purchase every year). There isn't any slippery slope for me because I can continue to pay whatever it is that they want to charge for the reduced OTUPs until it is no longer a net savings. That's when I personally will stop paying the "buy in" fee.

Will that chill in sales to me motivate them to lower the cost? Only if enough people stop paying too but I can't and don't want to control anyone else's choice in this. If someone wants to buy it even though it doesn't save them money, that's their business. But I am complaining about the line cutting at the lounges first as a "No, I don't agree with this" and (possibly) a second once I actually experience it first hand. Right now all we have is speculation. If it's a disaster they'll need to fix it but, who knows, maybe they know what they're doing. We'll just have to see how much complaining we need to do. I will opt out as a MMB member to see how long it takes to get in.

Also, as someone else mentioned, it does cost money to run the lounges. I don't mind paying to add a character meet and greet to the lounge. We've seen so many free/fun benefits recently. The Welcome Home weeks where we got a couple of free ice cream bars and the Halloween thing coming up at BWV next week that we're hoping to attend. We also finally got into 2 Moonlight Magics in the past 2 years (Epcot and Typhoon Lagoon).

We like these things. They're value added to our DVC.

 

[zackiedawg]

The new characters meet and greets will not be in the Epcot lounge. Not to pierce the illusion, but "characters" have to rest every 20 minutes or so and there is no backstage in the Epcot lounge (there is not even a restroom). It'll be in the new lounge in the MK or in the DS one. My money is on DS, to spread interest.

I was under the impression they'd to the character interactions in Epcot too - but either way, still the same point - any lounge where they do that will have some blocked out access times.

I do believe there's more space up there than is currently in use - the old ImageWorks space was larger - the two escalators up and down into that space are now those big white covered block areas along the two outside walls, and there's a door to additional space in one corner where they bring additional snack supplies out...I thought I remembered a walkway or pathway to the theater from the 2nd floor too, back in the day. And there was additional space that was not under the actual pyramid behind there the kid movies are playing. How much of that could be converted to usable backstage, I'm not sure - if that old theater pathway existed, it could provide a way to get characters in and out of that space behind the scenes.

 

[zavandor]

It is legitimate. But it's also arguably self-defeating. I can spend time and emotional energy being disgruntled by things that I can't control, or I can just accept it and move on.

That sounds trite, but for me there is some real truth behind it. I've written about this before, but Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same as "Disney wants me to be happy," but it is easy to confuse the two. Price increases or perk devaluations make it more obvious that Disney and I are in an adversarial relationship. Disney's goal is to get as much of my money for the lowest investment possible. My goal is to get as much fun possible from each dollar.

If I think the balance of that relationship tips too far in Disney's favor, my remedy is simple: Stop going.

You're being very rational and I try to be as well. The 2020 point charts debacle taught me DVC stopped trying to be above the rest of the timeshare industry and are ready to do anything to scrape a few dollars more. I still like going to WDW so I find great value in my contracts. But I can continue using a product even if I don't like current management and hope they fail miserably.

 

[Sandisw]

There is another point of view: in the past a ticket discount was offered to everyone eligible.
So, if for example, the tickets discount allows someone buying for the whole family to save $150, under this program they save a net $51, If DVC had decided to continue to offer the discount to everyone for free, the saving would be $150.

DVC can certainly decide to offer a paid programme and members can freely decide to buy into it. And they're entitled to be disgruntled by it as well. I think it's a legitimate reaction.

Lots of things were different in the past and the last time DVC owners got a discount on multi day tickets that was just for them was a very long time ago. I don’t count the special ticket offers Disney has offered all guests since those are not DVc specific.

They absolutely could have made the benefits free and so owners who participate would be getting an additional $99 savings. Not sure I have ever implied they could not have don’t it.

But, the fact they did not, does not change the value of this program. It still provides a lot of value even if it’s $99 upfront

Owners will have to decide what the end result is in this.

As I said, an owner who wants some of those things and it’s $750 by not joining the program, or $350 for joining, which includes the $99 fee, the savings is still pretty big, regardless of when the $99 is paid.

I simply am not going to subscribe to the opinion that what DVC has done is made things more
expensive than less for the products it includes.

Also the T and C state characters will be at
Lounge.

 

[zavandor]

Lots of things were different in the past and the last time DVC owners got a discount on multi day tickets that was just for them was a very long time ago. I don’t count the special ticket offers Disney has offered all guests since those are not DVc specific.

They absolutely could have made the benefits free and so owners who participate would be getting an additional $99 savings. Not sure I have ever implied they could not have don’t it.

But, the fact they did not, does not change the value of this program. It still provides a lot of value even if it’s $99 upfront

Owners will have to decide what the end result is in this.

As I said, an owner who wants some of those things and it’s $750 by not joining the program, or $350 for joining, which includes the $99 fee, the savings is still pretty big, regardless of when the $99 is paid.

I simply am not going to subscribe to the opinion that what DVC has done is made things more
expensive than less for the products it includes.

I agree with you that everyone must decide if it's convenient for them. I'm not a US resident, but if they change the rules and I'll be allowed to buy, I'd do it, buy the OTU points, rent them to break even and get the other benefits for free. I know how to game the system
I also don't think a boycott (as much as it would be justified) will go anywhere, they rarely do.
But yet, since we're commenting on the new offering, I understand anyone who weighted the blue card before deciding to buy direct points and now feel mocked.

 

[SL6827]

Could Disney legally change up any of the booking windows with resorts for those who do join? Could they give them some type of advantage? Could they give those a head start in booking things like MM, dining reservations or park tours? What about priority room request? Could that be a possibility?

 

[MagicDVC]

Could Disney legally change up any of the booking windows with resorts for those who do join? Could they give them some type of advantage? Could they give those a head start in booking things like MM, dining reservations or park tours? What about priority room request? Could that be a possibility?

Yes, IIRC, as long as they give home resort 1 month priority. It's been a bit since reading the POS.

 

[J-Dog]

I think MOST of us here can agree, whether you want or do not want this $99 offer, that they should have just left the member lounge out of it. Offer everything else, even add some things - paid extras that are over and above the regular DVC experience are fine - but taking away free benefits current members have and offering them at extra cost to those willing to pay is not a good look, and really is the primary controversy causing all these complaints and problems. Disney should at least see that, and realize the error - strip that out of the offer, and pretty much all current DVC members stop complaining and are happy, and some will opt to hand over more money for the paid perks they get.

This. 100%.

Depending on the math when it is released, I could possibly make use of the 5-day ticket discount, but I'm currently not planning to pay for this either way, because I morally disagree with the lounge access issue.

 

[lowlight]

I understand the “if you don’t like it, take your money elsewhere” line, and while I usually agree, this is different. It’s not like it’s a local McDonald’s I spend a few bucks at a few times a year. I would never expect them to listen to customer feedback. A place I go frequently and have invested money into (a lot of money)? I’d rather say my piece before I go.

I don’t want to just take my money and leave. I’d much rather be vocal about my displeasure in the hopes that other like minded individuals could join in and make Disney take notice. If that doesn’t work? Yeah, sell, leave, go somewhere else if it’s that big a deal. This isn’t that big a deal to me, but spec renting and walking is and this is just icing on the DVC turd cake. I really feel that they have tested the waters on a number of occasions (points charts, seasons, treehouses, lock offs, dues, you name it) and the push back has worked at least one or two times, which is better than nothing.

My point is that 99 percent of the time, take your money and leave is the best way to act, but I don’t believe this is that time. I think if enough people smack their greedy paws, they will table it for the time being. It’s better to stop it now than to look back in 5 years and say “well, I guess priority lounge access WAS just the beginning of the slippery slope” after they’ve expanded it in worse ways.

 

[tx911]

It is legitimate. But it's also arguably self-defeating. I can spend time and emotional energy being disgruntled by things that I can't control, or I can just accept it and move on.

That sounds trite, but for me there is some real truth behind it. I've written about this before, but Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same as "Disney wants me to be happy," but it is easy to confuse the two. Price increases or perk devaluations make it more obvious that Disney and I are in an adversarial relationship. Disney's goal is to get as much of my money for the lowest investment possible. My goal is to get as much fun possible from each dollar.

If I think the balance of that relationship tips too far in Disney's favor, my remedy is simple: Stop going.

Except if you are on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars, and love going to WDW, "Stop going" is not a good trade off over a $99 paywall.

So *****ing about it on this forum is about as strong a reaction as I can muster

 

[Hubalorian]

I am genuinely curious if the options were:
1: close all the lounges
2: introduce priority access to lounges to offset costs as apart of a new membership program

What camp would you be in? If, for whatever reason that was the decision that had to be made, which would you choose?

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

I find most of the standard member perks relatively useless for our pattern of travel. However these membership magic perks may actually provide value to us. I guess we will wait and see what the 5 day ticket pricing ends up being. If nothing else the discounted memory maker saves us $85 for our trip. If we need OTU points that would be worth it too.