MDE & FP+ are NOT failures

[ChipnDale79]

In my experience, we were able to build a frame, much like what you described in your other post, using FP+. And it was during the week of Christmas to New years.

Not saying you're wrong, but trying to give you hope that what you described can still happen. We still had a good deal of spontaneity with FP+. YMMV.

Thank you, I hope you're right and it won't feel so rigid.

The idea of not being able to grab fast passes in 2 different parks on the same day I know will be a problem for us though.

Quite honestly if we didnt eat dinners in World Showcase so much, then I don't think we would purchase the park hoppers anymore. They almost appear to be useless.

 

[wisblue]

Nevermind going to MK in the morning and spending a good portion of time there, then popping over to Epcot in the evening and grabbing a fast pass for Test Track or Soarin before you dinner in World Showcase for use after dinner, that option is now completely gone. But I know, I'm supposed to shut my mouth and not complain, instead of riding those rides in Epcot I should just go spend more money in World Showcase....

If you popped over to Epcot in the evening and got a FP for Soarin or Test Track, you weren't visiting at the times we were.

For those of us who usually have to visit at Easter or Christmas, those FPs were usually gone by early to mid afternoon.

The scenario you're describing is exactly why we have seen FP+ to be an improvement. On those busy days we get to the MK early; at Christmas and Easter there is almost always AM EMH, often at 7 AM. We can do a lot of things there without long lines and without FP, and then use our FP+ reservations for either Soarin or Test Track plus two other things, like Mission Space and Spaceship Earth. Or go to DHS for TSMM or RNRC, plus TOT and Star Tours.

I think allowing FP+ reservations in more than one park is coming, but even without it we found FP+ to be very helpful on those busiest days.

 

[ChipnDale79]

If you popped over to Epcot in the evening and got a FP for Soarin or Test Track, you weren't visiting at the times we were.

For those of us who usually have to visit at Easter or Christmas, those FPs were usually gone by early to mid afternoon.

You're right I wasn't, I think that was a flaw in the system though (IMO). That could have been solved by disney staggering the release times for Fast Pass "windows".

Example, Fast Pass window of 7-8, then you can't pull a fast pass until 4 or 5.

We've been lucky enough to visit during non peak times, I've also been during the week of Christmas and know how hard it can be to ride things.

 

[wisblue]

You're right I wasn't, I think that was a flaw in the system though (IMO). That could have been solved by disney staggering the release times for Fast Pass "windows".

Example, Fast Pass window of 7-8, then you can't pull a fast pass until 4 or 5.

We've been lucky enough to visit during non peak times, I've also been during the week of Christmas and know how hard it can be to ride things.

I think those busiest times are one of the driving forces behind FP+.

A lot of families make their first trips to WDW during these times because it is one of the times that families with school age kids can visit.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I think those busiest times are one of the driving forces behind FP+.

A lot of families make their first trips to WDW during these times because it is one of the times that families with school age kids can visit.

Ok, but 2 weeks out of the year shouldn't define how the parks are ran for the other 50 weeks out of the year.

I've been plenty of times during the summer as well and have had no problem grabbing late fast passes at Epcot.

Again, staggering the windows would solve a lot of the problem with Fast Passes running out by mid day. There's just really no excuse for having that kind of problem.

 

[Shaden]

If you popped over to Epcot in the evening and got a FP for Soarin or Test Track, you weren't visiting at the times we were.

For those of us who usually have to visit at Easter or Christmas, those FPs were usually gone by early to mid afternoon.

The scenario you're describing is exactly why we have seen FP+ to be an improvement. On those busy days we get to the MK early; at Christmas and Easter there is almost always AM EMH, often at 7 AM. We can do a lot of things there without long lines and without FP, and then use our FP+ reservations for either Soarin or Test Track plus two other things, like Mission Space and Spaceship Earth. Or go to DHS for TSMM or RNRC, plus TOT and Star Tours.

I think allowing FP+ reservations in more than one park is coming, but even without it we found FP+ to be very helpful on those busiest days.

I have no doubt this is true, but for us, visiting either Presidents day week and in the first 2 weeks of may, never had a problem with this.

Could pull FPs for rides we wanted throughout the entire day/night. Usually 1-2 hours after the time we pulled them.

How many days of the year are 8+ days ? How may are 3-7 days ?

 

[JZCubed]

How exactly has it been made larger please explain.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/magic-kingdom/new-fantasyland/

 

[ChipnDale79]

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/magic-kingdom/new-fantasyland/

Really trying not to be argumentative, but did new land get added or not?

Remember, new FLE took the place of Toontown.

 

[Shaden]

Very well said!

I was thinking the exact same thing about packing an extra 3,000 people into already overcrowded parks. Ummm...yay?? This is a "success" to the visitor how?

I think Disney is seriously underestimating the "word of mouth" effect. When hoards of previously fanatical Disney lovers stop cheerleading for Disney and instead start griping about overcrowding/long lines/ FP+/ etc., the seemingly endless stream of once-in-a-life timers and shiny-eyed newbies will eventually dry up. Those loyal, repeat cheerleaders were the ones helping to create the demand for the "I'm finally going to Disneyworld!" type visitors.

It obviously didn't happen last year (most trips were planned long before this debacle was truly underway), it may not happen this year or even next year. But it will eventually happen if things continue down this path. A company can only rely on past goodwill for so long before that is simply not enough.

I have been a *huge* Disney cheerleader for years now. I can't count how many friends and family members I have personally convinced to go to Disney by my rave reviews and glowing post-trip feedback.

Recently? Well, lets just say that I no longer feel confident recommending Disney to anyone right now. In the past few months, the four families that I attempted to help/re-adjust plans that had been previously booked, came home with mostly negative experiences. From the technology "glitches" that they experienced, to the excessive amount of "annoying" (their word) preplanning, to the rude and overwhelmed CMs, to the long lines...not one single family I know who has traveled there in the last several months has any desire to return.

In fact, my co-worker who was there last week was stunned at how crowded the parks were on a week of mainly 3-4 crowd level predictions. She had a horrible experience at DHS, and was upset that she consistently had to wait in 50-90 minute lines in MK. In fact, she ended up only spending 2 of her four days at Disney and spent the other 2 at US. When she returned to the office, she single-handedly convinced another co-worker who had been considering an upcoming Disney trip to skip Disney altogether and head elsewhere.

I understand that my personal experiences are anecdotal; however, they aren't happening in a vacuum. As PP said, check out the Disney Facebook page reviews or look at other avid Disney fan sites...people are unhappy/upset right now. This isn't one or two people griping about a random bad trip; this is numerous, numerous people all complaining about one general problem (the thing that Disney happened to dump a huge amount of money into).

This report speaks of anything but "success" to me. If Disney's intent is to keep cramming as many people as they can into the parks using the premise of MM+ (without adding capacity), then in my personal view of success, the future looks very bleak indeed.

Great post, But again, you aren't one of the 3, 6, 9, or 12 (depending on who in the "Get over it" camp is counting) that is actually counted as a complainer. There are only a few of us, everyone else loves FP+.

Good post, I very much agree with you on many accounts. In Particular with the bolded. We grabbed our APs last May in order to use them for 2 trips, our upcoming May trip included. We rented DVC points in the summer for our upcoming May trip. If we weren't locked in, no way we would be doing Disney this trip, but we are.

I am sure we are going to still have a good time at Disney, that's the comfort, but I can't possibly see this system allowing us to have as good a time as we have in the past few years. We are ride centric people, we go in mid season and have been able to pull 6, 7, 8 FPs in a day in the past. We will not wait in rides longer than 20mins. As soon as the ride-wait ratio breaks the 1:10 mark, its just not worth it to us, especially not for the premium to pay at WDW. That's really what this will come down to, the value, and for us its just not looking good.

And, then there is the headache of planning FPs for a group with varying ride desires, ugh. Not fun, 23 days out and we are already not happy about it.

 

[JZCubed]

So you've never been to WDW when you can walk up to Big Thunder, grab a fast pass that's only an hour or two away? I can't tell you how many times I've done that.

It doesnt have to be planned down to the minute. This rigidty of planning a vacation down to the minute will actually take away a lot of magic for many of us.

I've been to WDW at all different times of the year, I don't have school age children, so we can go at any time. At some points in the year, you can most certainly take a chance of grabbing a fast pass for TT or Soarin that will be after your ADR.

That's an option that's taken away.

You and I apparently have different "touring plans". The problem is, people who have the same type of touring plan as I do, can't do that anymore.

If this doesnt effect how you tour disney, of course you aren't going to have a problem with it......

I'm not asking you to "wrap your head around it", if FP+ doesnt negatively effect you, then you'll never be able to "wrap your head around it".

I walk over to BTMRR with my FP+ and have no wait. I do not have to figure out what to do with my wait time - I have none.

On the other hand, you walk all the way over to BTMRR and then do what while you wait after grabbing a FP-? Get on a lengthy line at Splash Mountain? I'd rather have a FP+ in my hand for Splash as well - no wait.

If you can grab a FP-, but then have to wait or linger for your to return time, then how does this prevent wasting time or the running around that you mentioned was a burden?

Lastly, if you are at Magic Kingdom during slow days, as you've described, then are there that many rides that would require FP- for adults with no children that would be missed without a FP? If Slash has a 15 minute wait, Pirates and Haunted Mansion wait times would be even less; no wait time burden.

I'll tell you our FP+ rides: Splash, BTMRR, Belle, Ariel, Buzz, and Meet & Greet (soon to be 5 y.o. daughter). If my family arrives in the morning, we can ride/see half of these without a need for FP of any sort, then other half by utilizing FP+. On the other hand, the FP- method came with far more uncertainty and plenty of more running around.

Hey, I get that people who were able to grab FP- at-will have a sense of loss with FP+. And as you mentioned, people with small children are ever so grateful for the ability to have a FP+ in-hand before getting out of bed to attend rope drop in order to make certain that the little ones can ride their favorite rides without having to run around or wait stand-by for an hour. But your observation about planning to the minute is without merit when FP+ return times are a one hour window AND you know that window of opportunity in advance. And if you do not want to schedule FP+ in advance, you can grab what amount to FP- at the kiosks - yet another way to limit running around.

I wonder, do you have a problem with being on-time to ADR's? After all, there is a smaller window for return times. How is this not a burden to your touring plan?

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm talking long-term. Disney doesn't "already have your committed" if you haven't booked your resort yet. But if getting FP+ early is an incentive to stay on site (and then spend a ton of money on room and food that would otherwise have been spent outside), then Disney will dangle that incentive.

My post was in reference to your post mentioning DVC ownership. In that case, they do have you committed.

 

[Luscien]

Thank you, I hope you're right and it won't feel so rigid.

The idea of not being able to grab fast passes in 2 different parks on the same day I know will be a problem for us though.

Quite honestly if we didnt eat dinners in World Showcase so much, then I don't think we would purchase the park hoppers anymore. They almost appear to be useless.

I hope it works well for you too, because it is a significant cost and it should be a good time.

I know having the app my my phone was helpful. We rescheduled our FPs once or twice on the fly, and using the mobile app made it pretty easy. One we did on the bus on the way into the park because we got a later start than we expected and were also delayed by traffic.

The multiple parks is something I'd like to see them change also. I suppose one tactic might be to do rope drop at one park and the schedule the FPs at a different park, but that seems suboptimal. Maybe we'll try that when we are back in May if they haven't adjusted it by then.

I think they've devalued the park hopper option, so I'd like to think they'll fix that, especially since its in their interest (AKA a "ticket add on making them more money" standpoint.)

 

[mom2rtk]

I walk over to BTMRR with my FP+ and have no wait. I do not have to figure out what to do with my wait time - I have none.

On the other hand, you walk all the way over to BTMRR and then do what while you wait after grabbing a FP-? Get on a lengthy line at Splash Mountain? I'd rather have a FP+ in my hand for Splash as well - no wait.

If you can grab a FP-, but then have to wait or linger for your to return time, then how does this prevent wasting time or the running around that you mentioned was a burden?

Lastly, if you are at Magic Kingdom during slow days, as you've described, then are there that many rides that would require FP- for adults with no children that would be missed without a FP? If Slash has a 15 minute wait, Pirates and Haunted Mansion wait times would be even less; no wait time burden.

I'll tell you our FP+ rides: Splash, BTMRR, Belle, Ariel, Buzz, and Meet & Greet (soon to be 5 y.o. daughter). If my family arrives in the morning, we can ride/see half of these without a need for FP of any sort, then other half by utilizing FP+. On the other hand, the FP- method came with far more uncertainty and plenty of more running around.

Hey, I get that people who were able to grab FP- at-will have a sense of loss with FP+. And as you mentioned, people with small children are ever so grateful for the ability to have a FP+ in-hand before getting out of bed to attend rope drop in order to make certain that the little ones can ride their favorite rides without having to run around or wait stand-by for an hour. But your observation about planning to the minute is without merit when FP+ return times are a one hour window AND you know that window of opportunity in advance. And if you do not want to schedule FP+ in advance, you can grab what amount to FP- at the kiosks - yet another way to limit running around.

I wonder, do you have a problem with being on-time to ADR's? After all, there is a smaller window for return times. How is this not a burden to your touring plan?

But in the PP's example, maybe they had already done 3 FP rides already. Or maybe they had done 6 FP rides already. THAT is the difference.

Once your 3 are over....... your choice is standby, standby......or perhaps standby. Oh, or you could leave.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

So you've never been to WDW when you can walk up to Big Thunder, grab a fast pass that's only an hour or two away? I can't tell you how many times I've done that.

It doesnt have to be planned down to the minute. This rigidty of planning a vacation down to the minute will actually take away a lot of magic for many of us.

I've been to WDW at all different times of the year, I don't have school age children, so we can go at any time. At some points in the year, you can most certainly take a chance of grabbing a fast pass for TT or Soarin that will be after your ADR.

That's an option that's taken away.

You and I apparently have different "touring plans". The problem is, people who have the same type of touring plan as I do, can't do that anymore.

If this doesnt effect how you tour disney, of course you aren't going to have a problem with it......

I'm not asking you to "wrap your head around it", if FP+ doesnt negatively effect you, then you'll never be able to "wrap your head around it".

One problem with FP+ is that, at the moment, it is "one limit fits all." I get only three, no matter the park, no matter the crowds, no matter the attractions I choose, no matter my touring style, and no matter the time I arrive. You can certainly come up with situations in which FP+ works better, but there are too many situations in which it is much worse. One example is touring MK all day in moderate crowds, when it was easy to spontaneously pick up a FP, enjoy other attractions in the area, use the FP, and repeat.

 

[JZCubed]

I have no doubt this is true, but for us, visiting either Presidents day week and in the first 2 weeks of may, never had a problem with this.

Could pull FPs for rides we wanted throughout the entire day/night. Usually 1-2 hours after the time we pulled them.

How many days of the year are 8+ days ? How may are 3-7 days ?

I am also in the camp of people who want to be able to have FP in two Parks.

This, in my opinion, will cause a change in policy.

I think the change to a multiple FP+ policy will change when people stop buying Park Hoppers.

There is far less need for Park Hoppers if people cannot take advantage of FP+ for a second Park, particularly if the total number of FP+ are limited to 3 per day.

 

[JimmyV]

There is far less need for Park Hoppers if people cannot take advantage of FP+ for a second Park, particularly if the total number of FP+ are limited to 3 per day.

I would argue that there is a greater need for hoppers now. Get to Park #1 at RD and hit your headliners in the SB lines, don't use any of your FP+s, then hop over to Park #2 and hit a headliner (or two) with your FP+s. Of course, this only works if you stay on site and can pre-book, because hopping over to Park #2 without prior FP+ bookings is likely a dead strategy.

 

[mesaboy2]

Really trying not to be argumentative, but did new land get added or not?

Remember, new FLE took the place of Toontown.

New land got added, unless you want to count the land that was lost when 20KL went away years ago. It all depends when you set your baseline.

 

[JimmyV]

New land got added, unless you want to count the land that was lost when 20KL went away years ago. It all depends when you set your baseline.

Even if you set your baseline back to the days of 20KL, the new land created more walkable space for guests. The FL Expansion sits on the footprint of areas that were previously used, but a big chunk of that area was a lake that couldn't hold any guests. Heck. BoG can probably hold 2,000 people at lunch (either seated or in line) all by itself.

 

[mesaboy2]

Even if you set your baseline back to the days of 20KL, the new land created more walkable space for guests. The FL Expansion sits on the footprint of areas that were previously used, but a big chunk of that area was a lake that couldn't hold any guests. Heck. BoG can probably hold 2,000 people at lunch (either seated or in line) all by itself.

That wasn't the MK pool? I thought the theming of that beat even the Big Blue Pool. Oops, that's embarrassing.

 

[mom2rtk]

Even if you set your baseline back to the days of 20KL, the new land created more walkable space for guests. The FL Expansion sits on the footprint of areas that were previously used, but a big chunk of that area was a lake that couldn't hold any guests. Heck. BoG can probably hold 2,000 people at lunch (either seated or in line) all by itself.

Actually the restaurant seats 550. Although I'm not denying there might be 1450 people in line outside at any given time.