MDE & FP+ are NOT failures

[ucfknight]

New land got added, unless you want to count the land that was lost when 20KL went away years ago. It all depends when you set your baseline.

New land was definitely added with New Fantasyland no matter where you set your baseline. New Fantasyland is larger than the original 20,000 Leagues space.

Basically, anything Beauty and the Beast related (ETWB, BOG, Gaston's Tavern) is on land that was always backstage area until now.

 

[Robo]

New land was definitely added with New Fantasyland no matter where you set your baseline. New Fantasyland is larger than the original 20,000 Leagues space.

Basically, anything Beauty and the Beast related (ETWB, BOG, Gaston's Tavern) is on land that was always backstage area until now.

Ignore the labeling in the map outline, as they
changed nearly everything from this very early concept.
But, the transformed AREA SIZE is still correct.

Map Image- datalossinc

 

[ucfknight]

Ignore the labeling in the map outline, as they
changed nearly everything from this very early concept.
But, the transformed AREA SIZE is still correct.

Map Image- datalossinc

You aren't going back far enough for your overlay background. The photo you are using is from when the site was cleared and basic prep work was done. You have to compare pictures from when the lagoon was still there. Here you can compare 2002 with 2014 to clearly see the new land added which used to be backstage:

You can see 7DMT is being built primarily in the old lagoon for 20,000 Leagues.
Journey of the Little Mermaid was built in the space of the old show building for 20,000 Leagues.
BOG, ETWB, and Gaston's Tavern were built on land that was previously backstage. This is the new onstage land added with the expansion.

In addition, the new Dumbo location used former "dead" space that, while onstage, was just a field of grass and trees.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Simple logic. "I do not hate FP+" DOES NOT EQUAL "Disney can do no wrong." Just like "I hate FP+" does not equal "I hate change".

But see, it doesn't go both ways for some here. Those of us who have tried FP+ and liked it get called apologists all the time.

The parks were full enough when I was there. I really don't think a minority of DISers are going to change things at this point. The ship has sailed and people can either deal, or go somewhere else.

WDW will still be there and it will still be making money.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I walk over to BTMRR with my FP+ and have no wait. I do not have to figure out what to do with my wait time - I have none. On the other hand, you walk all the way over to BTMRR and then do what while you wait after grabbing a FP-? Get on a lengthy line at Splash Mountain? I'd rather have a FP+ in my hand for Splash as well - no wait. If you can grab a FP-, but then have to wait or linger for your to return time, then how does this prevent wasting time or the running around that you mentioned was a burden? Lastly, if you are at Magic Kingdom during slow days, as you've described, then are there that many rides that would require FP- for adults with no children that would be missed without a FP? If Slash has a 15 minute wait, Pirates and Haunted Mansion wait times would be even less; no wait time burden. I'll tell you our FP+ rides: Splash, BTMRR, Belle, Ariel, Buzz, and Meet & Greet (soon to be 5 y.o. daughter). If my family arrives in the morning, we can ride/see half of these without a need for FP of any sort, then other half by utilizing FP+. On the other hand, the FP- method came with far more uncertainty and plenty of more running around. Hey, I get that people who were able to grab FP- at-will have a sense of loss with FP+. And as you mentioned, people with small children are ever so grateful for the ability to have a FP+ in-hand before getting out of bed to attend rope drop in order to make certain that the little ones can ride their favorite rides without having to run around or wait stand-by for an hour. But your observation about planning to the minute is without merit when FP+ return times are a one hour window AND you know that window of opportunity in advance. And if you do not want to schedule FP+ in advance, you can grab what amount to FP- at the kiosks - yet another way to limit running around. I wonder, do you have a problem with being on-time to ADR's? After all, there is a smaller window for return times. How is this not a burden to your touring plan?

My point is that you can change your touring plans at will with FP-, you can't with FP+.

The point of FP- was to grab a fast pass then go stand in line for another ride, therefore you’re basically standing in line for 2 rides at a time. I've got no problem with that. FP- allowed me to change what I wanted to do at will.

If Splash had a longer line, instead of grabbing a FP- for Big Thunder, then I can get one for Splash, and then stand in line for Big Thunder. If you want to ride both and only have a FP+ for 1 of them, and its for Big Thunder, then you get to wait in the longer line at Splash instead of the shorter line at Big Thunder.

I've got a problem with having to be somewhere at set times 4 times per day (ADR and 3 reserved fast passes) instead of 1. It's to rigid. It doesn't allow for flexibility.

To those of you that don’t change things on a whim, then I understand this platform is great for you, but for those of us that do not follow a set plan (that we have to lay out 60 days in advance) this system is a problem.


Actually, the only time we've been late to an ADR was when we were stuck on the monorail when it broke down as we went from MK to O'hana. Other than that we always arrive early.
It’s not a burden to our Touring Plans because its one reservation per day, and you know we typically eat anyways around the time that we have an ADR. It’s really not that hard to work around 1 reservation, 4 is a different story…..

Personally I love a lot of the ideas behind MM+, I even like the idea of getting rid of paper fast passes, it’s the advanced reservation of fast passes, the limit of 3 per day, and the lack of park hopping that is a big burden to my family.

 

[btk2333]

But see, it doesn't go both ways for some here. Those of us who have tried FP+ and liked it get called apologists all the time.

The parks were full enough when I was there. I really don't think a minority of DISers are going to change things at this point. The ship has sailed and people can either deal, or go somewhere else.

WDW will still be there and it will still be making money.

I agree- sometimes I wonder if the complainers are actually hoping Disney will go back to legacy FP? At this point its much more useful to discuss park strategies for getting the most out of FP+

JMHO

 

[JimmyV]

I agree- sometimes I wonder if the complainers are actually hoping Disney will go back to legacy FP?

JMHO

I don't think this is true at all. A composite look at the most common complaints would lead one to conclude that the "complainers" are offering suggestions that would allow FP+ to remain operative, but in a way that would allow users to employ it in a manner more consistent with the more popular features of FP-. More total passes. More headliner attractions. Park hopping. No tiering. Pre-booking for off site guests. Some of these things can be rolled out without compromising FP+ and no doubt some will be. The world requires dissent. Dissent is the catalyst to change. Change is the foundation for evolution. Evolution is the basis for improvement. Hug a complainer.

 

[photo_chick]

I've got a problem with having to be somewhere at set times 4 times per day (ADR and 3 reserved fast passes) instead of 1. It's to rigid. It doesn't allow for flexibility.

This was actually one of my concerns. While I'm excited to use FP+ and think it will work well for us I did feel like I was over scheduling doing a TS meal every day and having to work the FP's in there. So we dropped DDP and half our TS meals for this trip.

 

[Laketravis]

they were able to use their FP+ reservations to enjoy their favorite attractions in less park time than they would have otherwise. Guests with early FP+ reservations may have been more likely to leave the park after using their FP+ reservations, and guests with afternoon or evening reservations may have arrived later than they would have otherwise, secure in the knowledge that they could enjoy 3 of their favorite attractions with short waits, something that would not have been possible with paper FP.

Wis, I can't help but notice you have an uncanny ability to use subliminal key words.

For instance, a mentally positive statement could be constructed using just the words I bolded.

Almost like grocery store music that whispers "buy more produce....buy more meat.....buy more cereal.....it taste so good...."

You should be a promotional writer for Disney!!

 

[Disneychick75]

Disney reported quarterly results. According to the linked article:

Sales at its theme parks and resorts rose 6% to nearly $3.6 billion, while profits rose 16% to $671 million, as guests spent more at its domestic parks and resorts during the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. Disney continues to roll out MyMagic+ at Walt Disney World and saw profits effected partially by investment in the new band that holds a guest’s theme park ticket, hotel room key, Fast Passes and credit card information.

Investments at the parks “continue to pay off” for Disney, said chief operating officer Jay Rasulo.

That includes the expansion of the Magic Kingdom’s Fantasyland and Disneyland’s “Cars Land,” but also the roll out of the MyMagic+ bands.

The parks were able to accommodate 3,000 more guests in the Magic Kingdom per day because of MyMagic+, Iger said during the investor call, stressing the significance of the time period — its busiest of the year — and location, its most popular theme park.

The addition of more guests in the park will clearly have an impact on the bottom line of the company in the future, Iger said, without giving any details.

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/frozen-thor-sequel-heat-up-disney-first-quarter-results-1201088331/


While I have read other comments by Mr. Iger that increased spending by Park guests may or may not have been a direct result of FP+, he is certainly maintaining that this is the expectation and reason for the $1B investment.

Let's do some math - and assume all increases are a result of FP+/MDE - then:

Increase profits at Parks went from (+/-) $580M to $670M = $90M per quarter.....$360M increase in projected profits for one year.

Further assuming that no increased efficiency comes from MDE/FP+, it will take less than 3 years for MDE/FP+ to break even.

And besides the complaints from luddites & former FP- commandos, I am inclined to believe most people prefer FP+ for the host of reasons that many people have previously described.

Walt Disney Co.'s time-share business is a growth engine once again. Company leaders recently singled out Disney Vacation Club as one of the key earnings drivers for their global parks-and-resorts division, in which operating profit jumped 15 percent — to $571 million — during the company's fiscal fourth quarter.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._walt-disney-world-time-share-business-aulani

 

[Laketravis]

Walt Disney Co.'s time-share business is a growth engine once again. Company leaders recently singled out Disney Vacation Club as one of the key earnings drivers for their global parks-and-resorts division, in which operating profit jumped 15 percent — to $571 million — during the company's fiscal fourth quarter. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-11-24/business/os-cfb-cover-vacation-club-20131121_1_walt-disney-world-time-share-business-aulani

There are so many things wrong with those comments that I honestly don't know where to begin.

 

[bcrook]

I agree- sometimes I wonder if the complainers are actually hoping Disney will go back to legacy FP? At this point its much more useful to discuss park strategies for getting the most out of FP+

JMHO

I understand your points and your positive outlook.

But the disboards provide two functions for me.

1. How to get the most out of the parks and resort (and I learn a lot from these boards), but this only happens if...
2. Help decide if I am going to book another vacation in the near future. That is why the updated information, ideas, and discussion is helpful. I keep trying to find the PLUS, and it is not happening. I realize the old system is gone, but I can't justify paying more for less.

So even though I didn't find the new system to be a failure, I did feel that it sucked the fun out of my last trip. And I cringe at the thought of fighting for FP online months in advance. If everyone goes online with advance booking privileges, I can't see any way mathematically for there to be enough fastpasses without the ARR.

I am eagerly awaiting to see how Presidents' Day, spring break, and especially Easter week goes as more guests get access to advance planning.

I have a little time now, because I have used up my DVC points, and Disneyland and Diagon Alley at USO are calling me.

If I had an upcoming trip planned, I would only focus on positive at this time, because that would totally be "it is what it is..." Situation.

Lucky for me, I don't have to accept that right now.

 

[Lindaland]

I think people like to complain because they think Bob Iger is reading these message boards. And because people think that their version of events is THE version of events for everyone (guilty as charged.) So they think Disney will change what they're doing to suit the needs of a vocal minority. Truth is, that friggin theme park is packed to the gills year round. Disney stock is only rising. The only people making a mistake are the people who are letting a ride reservation system ruin their vacation, their love of DisneyWorld, and apparently their daily lives.

People forget that Disney is first and foremost a business in which their chief goal is to make money. And they are without a doubt the best company at separating you from your money. You don't even have to carry around your purchases (reminding you of how much you spent) you can have them shipped to your room! Now with MB it doesn't even look like you're spending actual money like with the KTTW cards which looked like a credit card.
That being said...... they really don't care if its your money or someone elses. For every person who swears "never to return" there is someone who likes the new FP+ system and is already planning their next visit. Then there are all the new people who think this is the way it is and have no idea that they are missing anything. If Disney is making a profit (their ultimate goal) then as they see it, its a great success!! If they can get 3000 more people in the parks in a given day, they don't care if they loose a few hundred people, more will follow.
Disney offers a series of products that people will happily line up to buy. You can customize your purchase any way you want, with all the bells and whistles, or bare bones and everything in between. If they choose to change their offerings to accommodate more people (aka: to increase profits) they will, and people will either shop somewhere else, or just buy what they have to offer. Just the same way a store might choose to stop carrying a product even though some loyal customers want it. If more customers will pay a higher price for something else, thus increasing their profits, its makes sense to do so. Disney is not responsible for you having the perfect vacation. They are only obligated to offer what you paid for, a room, some attractions and a place to eat, the enjoyment, or lack of, is up to you and how you choose to look at your purchase.

 

[Planogirl]

People forget that Disney is first and foremost a business in which their chief goal is to make money. And they are without a doubt the best company at separating you from your money. You don't even have to carry around your purchases (reminding you of how much you spent) you can have them shipped to your room! Now with MB it doesn't even look like you're spending actual money like with the KTTW cards which looked like a credit card.
That being said...... they really don't care if its your money or someone elses. For every person who swears "never to return" there is someone who likes the new FP+ system and is already planning their next visit. Then there are all the new people who think this is the way it is and have no idea that they are missing anything. If Disney is making a profit (their ultimate goal) then as they see it, its a great success!! If they can get 3000 more people in the parks in a given day, they don't care if they loose a few hundred people, more will follow.
Disney offers a series of products that people will happily line up to buy. You can customize your purchase any way you want, with all the bells and whistles, or bare bones and everything in between. If they choose to change their offerings to accommodate more people (aka: to increase profits) they will, and people will either shop somewhere else, or just buy what they have to offer. Just the same way a store might choose to stop carrying a product even though some loyal customers want it. If more customers will pay a higher price for something else, thus increasing their profits, its makes sense to do so. Disney is not responsible for you having the perfect vacation. They are only obligated to offer what you paid for, a room, some attractions and a place to eat, the enjoyment, or lack of, is up to you and how you choose to look at your purchase.

I would hate to think that Disney's customer service plan is like this. I would hope that they would be at least somewhat interested in what their customers think and don't just see them as disposable.

I also believe that it is at least partially up to Disney to provide the vacation. That is what they are being paid for. I will agree that if what they offer doesn't work for a traveler then that individual should think about looking elsewhere.

 

[Lindaland]

I would hate to think that Disney's customer service plan is like this. I would hope that they would be at least somewhat interested in what their customers think and don't just see them as disposable.

I also believe that it is at least partially up to Disney to provide the vacation. That is what they are being paid for. I will agree that if what they offer doesn't work for a traveler then that individual should think about looking elsewhere.

I am pretty sure they will flower it up a bit when you call customer service and be very sympathetic. But as for changing a profit enhancing service..... doubtful. And sadly yes, I am sure they see a percentage of customers as essentially disposable. Disney was well aware of the fact that there would be a group of people who would be unhappy with the change, however they took the chance that while most would grumble, complain and shake their proverbial fists in the air, they would also in fact, make a return trip. Many people have stated they will never return, but many have also said "it may be a while before I come back".

You don't become one of the biggest businesses in the world by catering to every person and making sure that no one has a bad experience. True the "Disney Standard" is world renowned for its level of service. But when it comes down to it, they really don't break the rules for anyone. If you have a problem, they will help you fix it. But if they are within their rules of operations and your only concern is that what they offer doesn't work with your particular travel style, you're pretty much out of luck.

Disney is not responsible for anyone's happiness. Just like in real life, you are the only one responsible for your own happiness. People pay a lot of money for a vacation in WDW. Some are lucky enough to do it several times a year, and some are like me who only make it every couple years. I knew going in that this was a big financial commitment, and I worked overtime to help pay for my trips. I will enjoy my trip to the fullest, and when things go wrong, well......there is always vodka!!

This is still a "testing phase" so maybe the people who aren't happy with this current phase should wait a year or two and see what happens. Spend your vacation somewhere else and have a nice break.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

They didn't reward onsite visitors with extra fastpasses before and I can't see them changing that policy. However only time will tell.

They have rewarded onsite with EMH's though so it's not unprecedented to provide something for those who stay in their accommodations. In the past it hasn't been with FP's but there's nothing to say that it wouldn't be in the future.

Disney is not responsible for anyone's happiness.

Except the basis for Disney is the entertainment business. Business, yes, but based in entertaining people. They do have to pay attention to the "happiness" of their patrons be it park visitors, movie patrons or tv watchers. It expands beyond that but without the patrons they limit the ability to profit from their other add on's.