Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

[MariMama]

if she knew and said nothing I hope they offer her whatever she wants to eat before a lethal injection. Knowing a possible massacre was going to happen and saying nothing puts their lives in your hands as well

Let's put the responsibility where it truly lies, with the madman that pulled the trigger and murdered 49 people.

 

[bcla]

Sounds kind of odd if he was speaking in Arabic, unless he had learned it. Most of the reporting of his family was that they spoke Farsi/Dari.

 

[longboard55]

'I did it for ISIS,' he said. 'I did it for the Islamic State.'[/QUOTE]


Yes that is what he said, but according to CNN he spent a lot more time on gay chat lines than terrorists web sites and only started researching terror groups the last two weeks. Just sayin. I think we should get the facts before this huge rush to judgement

 

[wilkeliza]

Sounds kind of odd if he was speaking in Arabic, unless he had learned it. Most of the reporting of his family was that they spoke Farsi/Dari.

Some people will assume that the language is Arabic if they hear ISIS with it. I always hate when people get so uncomfortable when they hear a different language that is close to Arabic. I was on a flight to Orlando out of JFK where a more conservative Jewish man prayed before we boarded. I heard people complain to the flight attendants that "That man is praying in Arabic and it concerns me" it wasn't Arabic it was Hebrew. I knew the prayer myself and it would be no different than any other morning prayer.

I still think ISIS was a convenient cover for a mad man. He has a record of pledging his allegiance to any and every terrorist group that he thought would take him. Didn't everyone close to him basically said he doesn't even go to the mosque and isn't even religious just a bigot?

 

[L&Lfan]

Some people will assume that the language is Arabic if they hear ISIS with it. I always hate when people get so uncomfortable when they hear a different language that is close to Arabic. I was on a flight to Orlando out of JFK where a more conservative Jewish man prayed before we boarded. I heard people complain to the flight attendants that "That man is praying in Arabic and it concerns me" it wasn't Arabic it was Hebrew. I knew the prayer myself and it would be no different than any other morning prayer.

I still think ISIS was a convenient cover for a mad man. He has a record of pledging his allegiance to any and every terrorist group that he thought would take him. Didn't everyone close to him basically said he doesn't even go to the mosque and isn't even religious just a bigot?

Off topic, but it seems to me that if someone were praying on an aircraft loud enough to be heard by others not seated next to him, then that person is praying too loudly, How annoying. And rude.

 

[bcla]

Some people will assume that the language is Arabic if they hear ISIS with it. I always hate when people get so uncomfortable when they hear a different language that is close to Arabic. I was on a flight to Orlando out of JFK where a more conservative Jewish man prayed before we boarded. I heard people complain to the flight attendants that "That man is praying in Arabic and it concerns me" it wasn't Arabic it was Hebrew. I knew the prayer myself and it would be no different than any other morning prayer.

I still think ISIS was a convenient cover for a mad man. He has a record of pledging his allegiance to any and every terrorist group that he thought would take him. Didn't everyone close to him basically said he doesn't even go to the mosque and isn't even religious just a bigot?

Of course a lot of the speculation is that he may have been a self-loathing gay man, and that his pledge to ISIS was from a line of thinking that he could justify a massacre with said pledge.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think we should get the facts before this huge rush to judgement

Exactly.

And fact-finding differs from judgement. Just sayin.

Sounding more and more like he used the Isis to cover his real issue that was being gay

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

If I ever commit a horrific crime, I'm gonna scream "I did it for the N.F.P.L.C.M."!!

The speculation in all the threads will be wonderful.

 

[wilkeliza]

Off topic, but it seems to me that if someone were praying on an aircraft loud enough to be heard by others not seated next to him, then that person is praying too loudly, How annoying. And rude.

It wasn't loud and it was in the boarding area while seated not on the aircraft. Sorry that wasn't clear. He wasn't loud and it was almost a whisper. I imagine the prayer shawl (tallit) might have alerted people that something was up and the fact that he was rocking (something that is done in prayer). To be honest I barely even heard what he was saying and there were much louder people in the terminal than this guy.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

'I did it for ISIS,' he said. 'I did it for the Islamic State.'

Yes that is what he said, but according to CNN he spent a lot more time on gay chat lines than terrorists web sites and only started researching terror groups the last two weeks. Just sayin. I think we should get the facts before this huge rush to judgement[/QUOTE]

I agree! We should do research about the guy and his beliefs.


I also read that fellow workers reported that he openly supported ISIS and a caliphate.

 

[L&Lfan]

It wasn't loud and it was in the boarding area while seated not on the aircraft. Sorry that wasn't clear. He wasn't loud and it was almost a whisper. I imagine the prayer shawl (tallit) might have alerted people that something was up and the fact that he was rocking (something that is done in prayer). To be honest I barely even heard what he was saying and there were much louder people in the terminal than this guy.

Thanks for clarifying! I was reading fast and saw "I was on a flight to Orlando" and yet I missed "before we boarded". And then when you mentioned complaints to the flight attendants I assumed this all happened on the aircraft.

 

[wilkeliza]

Thanks for clarifying! I was reading fast and saw "I was on a flight to Orlando" and yet I missed "before we boarded". And then when you mentioned complaints to the flight attendants I assumed this all happened on the aircraft.

No problem. I guess it was actually a desk agent not a flight attendant. I forget those have different meanings as on are the people actually flying and the others are the one who can change your seat and scan your ticket.

 

[MPB82]

Let's put the responsibility where it truly lies, with the madman that pulled the trigger and murdered 49 people.

No. She knew it was going to happen and said nothing. If she said something 50 people including the shooter could be alive right now

 

[gwynne]

From article link below:

The body of......gunman......has been kept apart from the remains of his 49 victims at the morgue — and his autopsy was conducted in a different building.

"This is not a law or requirement, but was rather done out of respect for the victims and their families so that the shooter may never be near the 49 beautiful souls again," Orange County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Joshua Stephany said in a statement on Thursday.

....."While our team trains for such incidents, nothing could truly prepare anyone for this devastating loss. We are honored to have been entrusted to care for all of these individuals, yet saddened to now be among those communities affected by such profound tragedies."



http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...-s-body-kept-apart-49-beautiful-souls-n593816

 

[wilkeliza]

From article link below:

The body of......gunman......has been kept apart from the remains of his 49 victims at the morgue — and his autopsy was conducted in a different building.

"This is not a law or requirement, but was rather done out of respect for the victims and their families so that the shooter may never be near the 49 beautiful souls again," Orange County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Joshua Stephany said in a statement on Thursday.

....."While our team trains for such incidents, nothing could truly prepare anyone for this devastating loss. We are honored to have been entrusted to care for all of these individuals, yet saddened to now be among those communities affected by such profound tragedies."



http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...-s-body-kept-apart-49-beautiful-souls-n593816

That is amazing that they thought of that. Such a simple act that shows they care and respect the dead.

 

[MariMama]

No. She knew it was going to happen and said nothing. If she said something 50 people including the shooter could be alive right now

This guy has been a loose cannon since he was in elementary school. Are we going to point fingers at every person he's come in contact with the last 20 years?

 

[CPanther95]

This guy has been a loose cannon since he was in elementary school. Are we going to point fingers at every person he's come in contact with the last 20 years?

Only the ones that knew he was planning a massacre and said nothing. Or any of those that may have knowingly helped him scope out targets for a massacre.

 

[Geoff_M]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that much of what has been talked about could have easy been part of scouting prior to the act of mass murder (along with the fact that so far no male has stepped forward to claim that he any had relations with the shooter), let's assume we accept the speculation that the shooter was primarily a self-loathing closeted gay. But, that alone wouldn't provide the justification to find it acceptable to then murder in cold blood 49 other humans that have the same desires as you. So what turned the "stop" into a "go"?

He called "911" and declared he did it in the name of ISIS, swore allegiance to the Caliph in order to preserve his place in heaven, and declared solidarity with the Boston Marathon bombers.

He called a reporter and declared that he did it for ISIS and swore allegiance to the Caliph.

He posted to Facebook that he was killing people in the name of ISIS and to seek revenge for Muslim women and children killed in US airstrikes.

The FBI has declared that he in fact had been radicalized (not sure exactly how the length of time of his radicalization matters... once you're "all-in" you're "all-in" as I see it).

Former co-workers have said that he was never at a loss for words when given the option to make anti-gay as well as racist rants, and disparage any other number of groups of people.

Without a doubt, the guy had more than one evil or dark thought swirling around in his head... but I don't understand why some wish to heavily discount the guy's own proclamations as to what motivated his actions and instead speculate on what really made his actions acceptable in his eyes. More and more, it seems like we should call it "The hate that dare not speak its name." It seems fairly nonsensical to think that if the radicalization wouldn't have happened, there would still have been a murderous rampage. At worst, the only role that any self-loathing may have played might have been his final selection of the ultimate target versus the reported secondary target of Disney Springs.

 

[CPanther95]

Setting aside for a moment the fact that much of what has been talked about could have easy been part of scouting prior to the act of mass murder (along with the fact that so far no male has stepped forward to claim that he any had relations with the shooter), let's assume we accept the speculation that the shooter was primarily a self-loathing closeted gay. But, that alone wouldn't provide the justification to find it acceptable to then murder in cold blood 49 other humans that have the same desires as you. So what turned the "stop" into a "go"?

He called "911" and declared he did it in the name of ISIS, swore allegiance to the Caliph in order to preserve his place in heaven, and declared solidarity with the Boston Marathon bombers.

He called a reporter and declared that he did it for ISIS and swore allegiance to the Caliph.

He posted to Facebook that he was killing people in the name of ISIS and to seek revenge for Muslim women and children killed in US airstrikes.

The FBI has declared that he in fact had been radicalized (not sure exactly how the length of time of his radicalization matters... once you're "all-in" you're "all-in" as I see it).

Former co-workers have said that he was never at a loss for words when given the option to make anti-gay as well as racist rants, and disparage any other number of groups of people.

Without a doubt, the guy had more than one evil or dark thought swirling around in his head... but I don't understand why some wish to heavily discount the guy's own proclamations as to what motivated his actions and instead speculate on what really made his actions acceptable in his eyes. More and more, it seems like we should call it "The hate that dare not speak its name." It seems fairly nonsensical to think that if the radicalization wouldn't have happened, there would still have been a murderous rampage. At worst, the only role that any self-loathing may have played might have been his final selection of the ultimate target versus the reported secondary target of Disney Springs.

The effort to try and find every possible alternate motivation for a terrorist's act of terror is ridiculous and absolutely meaningless. I don't care what other motivations he may have had to answer the call from international terrorist organizations to commit this act.

 

[Magpie]

A couple of days ago someone mentioned they'd heard on the news something about doors being locked. Has anyone seen this story? I wonder if this is what they were talking about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...escaped-claims-thought-doing-right-thing.html

Impulsively closing a door for 10 seconds behind you, because the hallway you're in is packed and you can hear gunshots, is a far cry from "locking a door". It's just survivor's guilt speaking. And a good example of how things get twisted in retelling.