Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

[Magpie]

He's not a natural born citizen so I think stripping him of his citizenship shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Oooooh! Now we're into Two-Tier Citizenship!

Up here in Canada, we were all abuzz about this, not long ago. A bill passed, making it possible to strip dual citizens of their Canadian citizenship. It was not popular, and the current Liberal gov't has promised to have it repealed by Canada Day.

If you're a citizen, you're a citizen. Not a mostly-citizen. Or an almost-citizen. Or a citizen-as-long-as-you-behave-yourself.

It's a bit of a personal issue for me, as I was - until very recently! - a dual American/Canadian citizen. Last month I renounced my American citizenship, and now the only citizenship I hold is Canadian. I like to think of myself as being 100% Canadian, like every other Canadian in this country, entitled to hold the same wrong-headed opinions about matters political as any other citizen. I really don't want to be told that, due to an accident of birth, I'm forever going to be held to a different standard than other Canadians. And I don't want to be told that I'm not a REAL Canadian, just because I was born somewhere else.

Stripping someone of their citizenship really is a big deal. In the US, the rule is simply this: "If you were born in the US, the government can't revoke your citizenship unless you intend to lose it. If you're a naturalized citizen, you can lose your citizenship only if you obtained it under false pretenses or if you refuse to testify before Congress (for 10 years after naturalization)." That's it!

 

[bcla]

He's not a natural born citizen so I think stripping him of his citizenship shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Only lying on an immigration or naturalization application can result in stripping citizenship after enough time. They concentrate on whether one was ever a member of the Communist Party, a member of a known terrorist organization, or had engaged in war crimes I know a few people who recently got green cards. They were from China, and the case worker really pressed them on membership in the Communist Party. They were, didn't want to admit it, but in the end it was clear they weren't ideologues but only joined because it was necessary for career advancement.

After five years they generally won't do it. It has to be something really serious like genocide.

We have the 14th Amendment. It does make it a big deal to strip someone of citizenship.

 

[CPanther95]

We have the 14th Amendment. It does make it a big deal to strip someone of citizenship.

As it should be.

 

[bcla]

Stripping someone of their citizenship really is a big deal. In the US, the rule is simply this: "If you were born in the US, the government can't revoke your citizenship unless you intend to lose it. If you're a naturalized citizen, you can lose your citizenship only if you obtained it under false pretenses or if you refuse to testify before Congress (for 10 years after naturalization)." That's it!

The stripping of citizenship for failure to disclose is generally capped at five years. The testimony language is about ones own activities that might have impacted whether citizenship would have been granted in the first place.

Now war crimes or genocide are another matter. There had been a lot of high profile denaturalizations of former Nazi Party members.

Deportation can be tough too, when someone may given up nationality elsewhere. Making someone stateless is almost never done.

 

[Liberty Belle]

There are different types of Baptist but none that I have attended would act the way you describe. The church cannot charge anyone with anything. and in most states 17/18 isn't statutory rape anyway. None of the preachers I have listened to over the years EVER spewed hate about anyone or anything. I am always surprised at the reports here about Baptist preachers saying anything like that. Most Baptist churches do not have "elders" who decide anything. We have deacons but they would not make decisions such as your friend's "fate". The entire church makes most decisions by vote (seriously, we vote on how much money to spend on flowers for the landscape or paint for the lines in the parking lot) And no one is thrown out of most Baptist churches. You become a member, you stay a member until you choose to move your membership.

My minister was kicked out of her Baptist church as a teenager because she was gay. In fact, I'd guess about half of our congregation (approx 250 members) were kicked out/asked to leave/talked about in church and felt like they had to leave and many, if not most were Baptist. I know some were Pentecostal.

 

[kimblebee]

Oooooh! Now we're into Two-Tier Citizenship!

Up here in Canada, we were all abuzz about this, not long ago. A bill passed, making it possible to strip dual citizens of their Canadian citizenship. It was not popular, and the current Liberal gov't has promised to have it repealed by Canada Day.

If you're a citizen, you're a citizen. Not a mostly-citizen. Or an almost-citizen. Or a citizen-as-long-as-you-behave-yourself.

It's a bit of a personal issue for me, as I was - until very recently! - a dual American/Canadian citizen. Last month I renounced my American citizenship, and now the only citizenship I hold is Canadian. I like to think of myself as being 100% Canadian, like every other Canadian in this country, entitled to hold the same wrong-headed opinions about matters political as any other citizen. I really don't want to be told that, due to an accident of birth, I'm forever going to be held to a different standard than other Canadians. And I don't want to be told that I'm not a REAL Canadian, just because I was born somewhere else.

Stripping someone of their citizenship really is a big deal. In the US, the rule is simply this: "If you were born in the US, the government can't revoke your citizenship unless you intend to lose it. If you're a naturalized citizen, you can lose your citizenship only if you obtained it under false pretenses or if you refuse to testify before Congress (for 10 years after naturalization)." That's it!

We're happy to have you

 

[Pea-n-Me]

When did all of this come out that he is a Taliban supporter?

That has been out since the beginning.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I took his statement to mean "I worked hard raising my son to be awesome, so I don't understand WHY he couldn't get into the academy."

Either way his father is a whack job and his pro Taliban statements and tv show should be enough reason to have his citizenship taken away. Deep down I don't think his father is remorseful for what his son has done. Not one bit.

He's not a natural born citizen so I think stripping him of his citizenship shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I've read a lot of things on these boards that I find completely shocking. These posts have to be two of the worst. The idea that we should strip citizenship from people because we don't like what they think or say and the idea that being a naturalized citizen is less than being a natural born citizen are both horrible.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

That has been out since the beginning.

Are we talking about the shooter or the father of the shooter? I am starting to think I maybe misread the post. I did know that the shooter is an ISIS supporter. I thought the poster was saying that the father of the shooter was a Taliban supporter. That part was news to me.

 

[DopeyDame]

He's not a natural born citizen so I think stripping him of his citizenship shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I'll be sure to let my internationally adopted children know that you don't consider their citizenship to be "that big of a deal"

Thoughts like what you expressed send shivers down my spine for my kids.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Are we talking about the shooter or the father of the shooter? I am starting to think I maybe misread the post. I did know that the shooter is an ISIS supporter. I thought the poster was saying that the father of the shooter was a Taliban supporter. That part was news to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando...ther-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

 

[jahber]

I'll be sure to let my internationally adopted children know that you don't consider their citizenship to be "that big of a deal"

Thoughts like what you expressed send shivers down my spine for my kids.

Tell me about it! My husband is a naturalized citizen who immigrated from Malaysia which is....wait for it....a Muslim country! And yet--AND YET!--he isn't Muslim. How can that be? There are people in this very country who believe the father of my children, the kindest, most generous man I know, should never have been granted citizenship because he came from a country with a Muslim government (one of them is running for president!). And some who believe he can rightfully be stripped of his citizenship because he wasn't born here. This country is losing its ever-loving mind.

 

[cabanafrau]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando...ther-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

I knew this guy was a pig, but I gave him credit for being a little higher on the scale than this. I wouldn't advocate stripping him of his citizenship by any means, but considering he apparently emigrated to the U.S. by his own choosing, and most certainly would have voluntarily pursued citizenship under his own initiative I have to conclude that he may be a malcontent if both Afghanistan and the U.S. aren't to his liking. Perhaps he could be consulted as to where he would like to go and a go fund me be started to help him leave our unsatisfactory shores?

If he is spreading hate speech or advocating violence via his broadcasts in violation of any laws, he should be stopped and prosecuted.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Tell me about it! My husband is a naturalized citizen who immigrated from Malaysia which is....wait for it....a Muslim country! And yet--AND YET!--he isn't Muslim. How can that be? There are people in this very country who believe the father of my children, the kindest, most generous man I know, should never have been granted citizenship because he came from a country with a Muslim government (one of them is running for president!). And some who believe he can rightfully be stripped of his citizenship because he wasn't born here. This country is losing its ever-loving mind.

My statement had nothing to do with him being Muslim. At all.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

My boyfriend is in the process of becoming an American citizen. He's been here for 28 years. I have nothing against immigrants. But I do believe if you are connected to a terrorist group that preys on our country (if they can prove that his father is connected in some way) you should have your citizenship revoked. It shouldn't be revoked because of what he said because I believe 100% in freedom of speech. I'm sorry, I should have been clear about that.

 

[luvsJack]

My minister was kicked out of her Baptist church as a teenager because she was gay. In fact, I'd guess about half of our congregation (approx 250 members) were kicked out/asked to leave/talked about in church and felt like they had to leave and many, if not most were Baptist. I know some were Pentecostal.

Pentecostal, yes, their preacher makes a lot/if not all decisions for the church. But even then it will greatly depend on the church. One can be very different from the other. What kind of Baptist? Southern Baptist, Baptist, Primitive Baptists? All of these are different. A preacher can be asked to leave or voted out for a number of reasons--as a preacher. But MOST Baptist (and again, all dependent on the kind) do not kick any one out. None of the churches I have attended have any type of policy or procedure for kicking anyone out. The Baptist church I attend right now sets their goal as to never make anyone feel unwelcome.

 

[jahber]

My statement had nothing to do with him being Muslim. At all.

Which is why I didn't quite you or even mention your name in that regard. But you DID say because he wasn't a natural born citizen, it should be easy to take away his citizenship because he's "crazy." That's the part I take exception to. Unless and until he is proven to have ties (not just the ravings of a wanna-be dictator), he deserves the same right to freedom of speech as anyone else. I can claim to be the leader of Afghanistan all the live-long day. I can even wear a "military" uniform. But no one would he screaming for my citizenship to be revoked. My husband's shouldn't be, either.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Which is why I didn't quite you or even mention your name in that regard. But you DID say because he wasn't a natural born citizen, it should be easy to take away his citizenship because he's "crazy." That's the part I take exception to. Unless and until he is proven to have ties (not just the ravings of a wanna-be dictator), he deserves the same right to freedom of speech as anyone else. I can claim to be the leader of Afghanistan all the live-long day. I can even wear a "military" uniform. But no one would he screaming for my citizenship to be revoked. My husband's shouldn't be, either.

Yeah I clarified my statement right before this response. I noticed I didn't say exactly what I meant.

 

[wilkeliza]

Sad that this reminder is necessary but the Westborro Baptist Church is suppose to be making it to Orlando today in preparations for protests at funerals and even Obama's visit. If you are at any vigil or funeral or anywhere else you make come across them do everything with in your body to ignore them. If you touch them or their signs they will sue. That is how they make their money. Their entire goal is to rile people up in hopes that they will do something that they can sue them for. The best thing is to either ignore them and not given them any power in any of this.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Sad that this reminder is necessary but the Westborro Baptist Church is suppose to be making it to Orlando today in preparations for protests at funerals and even Obama's visit. If you are at any vigil or funeral or anywhere else you make come across them do everything with in your body to ignore them. If you touch them or their signs they will sue. That is how they make their money. Their entire goal is to rile people up in hopes that they will do something that they can sue them for. The best thing is to either ignore them and not given them any power in any of this.

I really think they will no show like they've done so many times in the past. Even they seem to have enough common sense to know when things might not work out well for them. I'd imagine this might be one of those times.