Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

[CPanther95]

It's even more than that. What he did in one of the 911 calls was to publicly pledge his allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. al-Baghdadi is the declared "Caliph" per ISIS. According to the interpretation of Islamic Law that ISIS follows, any Muslim that dies without making such a public pledge to a Caliph dies a "death of disbelief" (i.e. "No heaven for you!"). The Orlando shooter may have had a hard time figuring out WHICH branch of radical Islam that he wanted to adhere to, but I seems like he settled on one, and answered their call to launch attacks from within, and followed it's proscribed playbook pretty darn well. To me, whether the flow of information between ISIS and the shooter was uni or bi-directional doesn't really make much difference.

That makes it pretty clear.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

It's even more than that. What he did in one of the 911 calls was to publicly pledge his allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. al-Baghdadi is the declared "Caliph" per ISIS. According to the interpretation of Islamic Law that ISIS follows, any Muslim that dies without making such a public pledge to a Caliph dies a "death of disbelief" (i.e. "No heaven for you!"). The Orlando shooter may have had a hard time figuring out WHICH branch of radical Islam that he wanted to adhere to, but I seems like he settled on one, and answered their call to launch attacks from within, and followed it's proscribed playbook pretty darn well. To me, whether the flow of information between ISIS and the shooter was uni or bi-directional doesn't really make much difference.

Coincidentally, al-Baghdadi was reportedly killed in an air strike ETA Sunday in Raqqa.

 

[cabanafrau]

Coincidentally, al-Baghdadi was reportedly killed in an air strike today in Raqqa.

Live by the sword, die by the sword?

 

[NYDisGuy]

It's even more than that. What he did in one of the 911 calls was to publicly pledge his allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. al-Baghdadi is the declared "Caliph" per ISIS. According to the interpretation of Islamic Law that ISIS follows, any Muslim that dies without making such a public pledge to a Caliph dies a "death of disbelief" (i.e. "No heaven for you!"). The Orlando shooter may have had a hard time figuring out WHICH branch of radical Islam that he wanted to adhere to, but I seems like he settled on one, and answered their call to launch attacks from within, and followed it's proscribed playbook pretty darn well. To me, whether the flow of information between ISIS and the shooter was uni or bi-directional doesn't really make much difference.

Or he used the guise of radical Islam to shield himself and others about being a closet homosexual. Is this information that I could just google search in 2 minutes and find out everything? They also said he visited Disney Springs during Gay Days, so it's obvious he had one thing on this mind.

 

[asta]

I can't excuse the wife even if she is talking now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

She knew what he was planning and even drove him to the club to check it out. I don't think it matters if she was afraid. She had the power to stop this horrible attack.

 

[wilkeliza]

I can't excuse the wife even if she is talking now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

She knew what he was planning and even drove him to the club to check it out. I don't think it matters if she was afraid. She had the power to stop this horrible attack.

No matter how much she cooperates she needs to face charges. Based on the first wife he probably beat this one too and probably even threatened her life and their sons. I just can't imagine once she knew he left to do it not calling the police immediately to let them know.

 

[CPanther95]

I can't excuse the wife even if she is talking now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

She knew what he was planning and even drove him to the club to check it out. I don't think it matters if she was afraid. She had the power to stop this horrible attack.

No question she should be charged if she knew.

 

[cabanafrau]

I can't excuse the wife even if she is talking now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

She knew what he was planning and even drove him to the club to check it out. I don't think it matters if she was afraid. She had the power to stop this horrible attack.

First, I wonder how true this report is. Second, if true this opens up all sorts of legal issues -- and considerations about how to proceed because of the impact the reaction could potentially have with others down the line. Third, makes you really think about why it would be necessary for her to drive him to check out the club, be along when he attempted to buy body armor, etc?

 

[King Schultz]

According to a survivor who was hiding in a bath room stall, the shooter also claimed to be wearing a Kevlar vest and that he had 4 partners inside the club guarding the exits, both of which turned out to untrue.


It also seems he claimed to allied with every Middle Eastern organization this side of OPEC over the past few years, and yet it seems he had very little understanding who they actually were and what there various philosophies were.


It may very well be that further investigation will reveal actual evidence he was connected to a terrorist group, but right now there has been nothing but opinion, speculation, and rumor.


Which is fine for a message board, but disgraceful for so called professional news organizations.

 

[Magpie]

I can't excuse the wife even if she is talking now:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ife-tried-talk-him-out-orlando-attack-n592051

She knew what he was planning and even drove him to the club to check it out. I don't think it matters if she was afraid. She had the power to stop this horrible attack.

If this is true, then yes - criminal charges need to be laid. Her culpability can be properly assessed in a court of law.

Also, their child should be placed in foster care, and given therapeutic support, until the suitability of his remaining relatives can be assessed. We certainly don't want to see the child placed in the care of his grandfather - a man who (unsurprisingly, based on his comments about homosexuality) managed to raise a person so filled with self-loathing and hatred, that he opened fire in a club and murdered innocents.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Reports coming out that the wife may be charged.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/wife-of...pect-considered-for-possible-charges/1385049/

 

[King Schultz]

First, I wonder how true this report is. Second, if true this opens up all sorts of legal issues -- and considerations about how to proceed because of the impact the reaction could potentially have with others down the line. Third, makes you really think about why it would be necessary for her to drive him to check out the club, be along when he attempted to buy body armor, etc?

Impossible to tell how accurate this is. No way to know who the 'source' is.

If it turns out to be true, then she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


But I agree; it doesn't make sense- and it's also possible she is telling authorities what she thinks they want to hear rather than truth, not realizing the hole she's digging for herself.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

According to a survivor who was hiding in a bath room stall, the shooter also claimed to be wearing a Kevlar vest and that he had 4 partners inside the club guarding the exits, both of which turned out to untrue.


It also seems he claimed to allied with every Middle Eastern organization this side of OPEC over the past few years, and yet it seems he had very little understanding who they actually were and what there various philosophies were.


It may very well be that further investigation will reveal actual evidence he was connected to a terrorist group, but right now there has been nothing but opinion, speculation, and rumor.


Which is fine for a message board, but disgraceful for so called professional news organizations.

I read an interview with that lone survivor last night and it was unbelievable that he lived. He was shot four times in the back, and crawled out of the hole in the wall made by the armored vehicle after climbing over his friends' bodies. He had to put his hands in the air and tell police he was a "victim", not the shooter. The shooter came out the same hole in the wall after him, and that's when he was shot dead.

Another thing I read which I could not believe, were the accounts of a neighbor to the nightclub who apparently stayed in his house for the entire night watching it all go down. I think there were kids in the house, too. I would've been outta there!

Anyway, I agree with your statements. I just searched Google News for articles and you can literally take your pick of any angle you want. I was looking for this article I saw about an hour ago and it was already lost deep in the new articles that are churning out by the minute. It contained more detailed information about previous FBI investigations of the shooter than any other article I've seen. This investigation will be going on for months, if not years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ency-files-on-shooter/?utm_term=.84d12b8dbc1a

 

[JimMIA]

It's even more than that. What he did in one of the 911 calls was to publicly pledge his allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. al-Baghdadi is the declared "Caliph" per ISIS. According to the interpretation of Islamic Law that ISIS follows, any Muslim that dies without making such a public pledge to a Caliph dies a "death of disbelief" (i.e. "No heaven for you!"). The Orlando shooter may have had a hard time figuring out WHICH branch of radical Islam that he wanted to adhere to, but I seems like he settled on one, and answered their call to launch attacks from within, and followed it's proscribed playbook pretty darn well. To me, whether the flow of information between ISIS and the shooter was uni or bi-directional doesn't really make much difference.

Agree. Some guys play for the Yankees, some play for the Dodgers -- but they're all baseball players. Look at any mass movement -- good or bad -- and you will see dozens, often hundreds of independent sub-groups. They are competitors internally within the movement, but they share the cause.

Speaking of the radical Islamic groups specifically, yes they do fight against each other -- the Sunnis and Shia have been fighting for more than 1,000 years and will probably fight for 1,000 more. But there are some people they all agree on hating -- with Western Civilization being the primary target. Lucky us.

But when a killer calls 9-1-1 during his killing binge to proclaim his allegiance to the "caliph" I can't think of any more compelling indication of his true state of mind, his true motives, or his true allegiance. He didn't rant against gays (that we know of), although I can't imagine anyone believing he didn't hate them! But his motivation for killing was his radical Islamic beliefs, whether he clearly understood the different flavors or not.

No level of mental or verbal gymnastics can change that fact, no matter how hard some of us contort our words and thoughts to make his horrible murders seem to be something they are not. This was a mass murder in the name of radical Islam.

I'm sure we are all mature enough to recognize that the most radical elements within any religion or political philosophy do NOT represent the true beliefs of that group -- but it's silly to pretend this is something it's not for fear of "offending" somebody.

 

[JaxDad]

According to a survivor who was hiding in a bath room stall, the shooter also claimed to be wearing a Kevlar vest and that he had 4 partners inside the club guarding the exits, both of which turned out to untrue.


It also seems he claimed to allied with every Middle Eastern organization this side of OPEC over the past few years, and yet it seems he had very little understanding who they actually were and what there various philosophies were.


It may very well be that further investigation will reveal actual evidence he was connected to a terrorist group, but right now there has been nothing but opinion, speculation, and rumor.


Which is fine for a message board, but disgraceful for so called professional news organizations.

So, where would we get the rumors and speculation for the message board if the news organizations weren't reporting it?

 

[cabanafrau]

Impossible to tell how accurate this is. No way to know who the 'source' is.

If it turns out to be true, then she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.


But I agree; it doesn't make sense- and it's also possible she is telling authorities what she thinks they want to hear rather than truth, not realizing the hole she's digging for herself.

This has to be handled very carefully if true. Simply looking at it and declaring she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law may not be the wisest course in the interest of protecting society, I don't know.

If it is true she accompanied or drove him on the various excursions having tangential involvement with the attacks it is very important to understand why that is. It could point to a radicalization effect, wherein he might have been radicalizing and felt compelled to insist she participate in these ways and get on board with the concepts, or she might in fact be stealthily radicalized in some ways herself. It could point to simply an abusive and controlling personality dictating her compliance for a variety of reasons, including looking to incriminate her. It could point to him being desperate to be seen as a married man as frequently as possible in public.

Understanding her prior knowledge, complicity, etc. in detail is very important because it may give insight into other situations. The elder Tsarnaev brother in the Boston Marathon attacks was married, being supported by his wife and building bombs in their very tiny apartment in Cambridge. That has never sat well with me. The San Bernardino incident involved a husband and wife team, with the husband being the apparent instigator of the attack initially. It seems the more insight we can get on how this horror plays out is helpful. That's why I think we hold up on the march to prosecute and see what benefits society more.

 

[King Schultz]

So, where would we get the rumors and speculation for the message board if the news organizations weren't reporting it?

In my experience people on message boards do just fine with rumors and speculation without any help from the media.

 

[wilkeliza]

Ugh yet again we have another idiot group of reporters that went into the house claiming it was unlocked and the FBI was done so why not. Sick sick sick. Don't they know that compromises the entire investigation?! I hope Univision is reprimanded in some way for this. News reporters need to know when it is and is not appropriate to go snoop around an active investigation.

 

[JimMIA]

Coincidentally, al-Baghdadi was reportedly killed in an air strike ETA Sunday in Raqqa.

Haven't seen that anywhere. Do you have a link?

 

[JaxDad]

But when a killer calls 9-1-1 during his killing binge to proclaim his allegiance to the "caliph" I can't think of any more compelling indication of his true state of mind, his true motives, or his true allegiance. He didn't rant against gays (that we know of), although I can't imagine anyone believing he didn't hate them! But his motivation for killing was his radical Islamic beliefs, whether he clearly understood the different flavors or not.

I did hear one of the people who was in Pulse that night being interviewed by Anderson Cooper say that the killer ranted about US bombing in the Middle East. I did not catch the person's name. I just heard that part of the interview in passing on the TV in the break room here at work.