Mass Shooting at Orlando Club

I know there is a lot of talk that he was a regular at the club and on a gay dating app. I wonder if that was him "scouting" or he had self hatred going on with this attack.
A former male classmate said the killer asked him out romantically. It looks like the killer hated gays because he was one and couldn't fight it. Lots of people who speak out against the gay community are repressed gay people themselves. This event is not related to IS. "Closing our borders" to Muslims would not have made a difference.
 
The second point is that there is currently no concrete proof that the shooter was indeed associated with and directed by Daesh other than his 911 call. According to Salon (http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/orl...islamist_groups_that_are_fighting_each_other/) he previously claimed associations with other groups like Hezbollah which is Shia instead of Daesh which is Sunni. Hezbollah is fighting Daesh in Syria so being members of both groups is not possible. The FBI closed their investigation on him because he didn't seem to understand how al-Qaeda really worked.

They prey on people like that. They don't care how knowledgeable they are about their overall mission, they only want to take advantage of their willingness to kill people.
 
A former male classmate said the killer asked him out romantically. It looks like the killer hated gays because he was one and couldn't fight it. Lots of people who speak out against the gay community are repressed gay people themselves. This event is not related to IS. "Closing our borders" to Muslims would not have made a difference.

Wow, I hadn't heard this reported on. Funny, it's what came to my mind when I heard about his conflicting reports of allegiance to extremists, his father's removed posts denouncing homosexuality on social media and the father's speculation that it was because his son had been upset about recently witnessing two men kissing.
 
A former male classmate said the killer asked him out romantically. It looks like the killer hated gays because he was one and couldn't fight it. Lots of people who speak out against the gay community are repressed gay people themselves. This event is not related to IS. "Closing our borders" to Muslims would not have made a difference.

Yes, I have read about that theory many times. Find the most outspoken, extreme person on homosexuality and chances are they that way themselves but, for whatever reason, have chosen the repressive lifestyle. Being repressed never works and it creates personality abnormalities in other areas.
 

My friend flew down to get his cousin's body yesterday and they both flew to Indianapolis to his cousin's mom. I wasn't in church on Sunday, but apparently that's where he heard the news that his cousin was killed in the shooting (he'd known he was supposed to be at the nightclub, but hadn't been able to get a hold of him). He left the sanctuary and a couple of friends followed him out, thank goodness, and comforted him. I'm glad he was amongst friends when he got the news. I hate hearing how some people found out. :(
 
Thus far, authorities have found zero evidence the shooter was in direct contact with any known terrorist organization. In fact, they are classifying his as a 'self-actualized' terrorist.

But they just now started going through the phone he had on him during the massacre, so that might change.


Also reports are surfacing the he was seen in 'Pulse' a least a dozen times over the past 3 years, and contacted at least one person through a gay dating app.


Of course, as usual, the 24-he news services are doing their disgraceful best to fill every second by reporting any rumor, opinion, and speculation as facts.


I'm sure it'll be some time before we have a factual narrative on this tragedy.
 
My friend flew down to get his cousin's body yesterday and they both flew to Indianapolis to his cousin's mom. I wasn't in church on Sunday, but apparently that's where he heard the news that his cousin was killed in the shooting (he'd known he was supposed to be at the nightclub, but hadn't been able to get a hold of him). He left the sanctuary and a couple of friends followed him out, thank goodness, and comforted him. I'm glad he was amongst friends when he got the news. I hate hearing how some people found out. :(


I'm so sorry to hear of your friends loss. :(
 
Listening to Anderson Cooper say the name and tell something about each person is heartbreaking. Honestly guys 49 people were killed and 53 wounded.

If you want to continue to fight about your politics around gun control start your own thread. This should honestly be about the victims and not the hate. People's children are dead and wounded. A mother, an 18 year old woman celebrating her graduation, people celebrating birthdays and weddings. This is not the place to bring more hate. Why can't you guys see that.

Also yes this is a discussion board but people use to have some class. The bodies are barely cold and you guys want to fight for and against guns instead of stoping to think about those lost. We use to bury out dead first and show them respect but now we are too busy adding more hate to the world.

I can't not hate this person and what he did.
 
A former male classmate said the killer asked him out romantically. It looks like the killer hated gays because he was one and couldn't fight it. Lots of people who speak out against the gay community are repressed gay people themselves. This event is not related to IS. "Closing our borders" to Muslims would not have made a difference.

tough to say that given the confirmed 911 call, and the unconfirmed although multiple quoted sources of the things he yelled while he was doing the shooting. and then there are the fbi investigations and the couple of "mini" pilgrimages he took to the Mideast in the past couple of years.
 
The more information that comes out, the more skewed it seems to become. Lots to sort through here. But this article is just out. (I've added some of my own comments in parentheses, in the article.)

He was apparently at Disney just this month, during Gay Days. And the day before the attack he was at Disney Springs. (I believe earlier articles said he was there in April.)

From CNN:

Omar Mateen: Investigators say Orlando gunman made surveillance trips to Disney, Pulse - CNN.com

(CNN)Authorities believe the gunman who killed 49 people at Orlando's Pulse nightclub conducted surveillance trips at both the club and Walt Disney World earlier this month, a law enforcement official said.

Omar Mir Seddique Mateen's visits happened between June 1 and June 6, said the official, who has knowledge of the investigation. The number of visits to each venue was not specified.

The dates coincided with Gay Days 2016 celebrations that were taking place at Disney World and other Orlando locations between May 31 and June 6.

Investigators believe the visits were intended to surveil the locations, based on information learned in interviews.


The visits also came in the same time period when Mateen was purchasing the weapons used Sunday morning's Pulse nightclub attack, which he picked up June 9 after a cooling-off period.

The day before that attack -- the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history -- Mateen spent several hours at Disney Springs, the shopping and entertainment complex inside the Walt Disney World Resort, law enforcement officials said.

Authorities said they believe Mateen was alone at that time.



Prior Disney visit with wife


Disney security officials have told the FBI they believe another visit to Walt Disney World by Mateen on April 26 was to conduct reconnaissance. The FBI is investigating that possibility, the law enforcement official said.

Investigators don't know whether Mateen's wife, who was with him on the Disney World visit, knew or suspected at the time about her husband's intent, the official said.



Family items seized


The FBI has seized various documents from Mateen's home, as well as items the homes of his parents, sister and brother-in-law, the law enforcement official said.
(Me: Wouldn't they need credible evidence to get a search warrant for homes of parents and siblings?)

The items included a Dell computer, a smartphone, a digital camera and related media.

Mateen's phone was recovered at Pulse. FBI Director James Comey would not say Tuesday whether they have accessed the phone.



Conflicting persona


To some, Mateen was angry and homophobic, spewing outrage at the sight of two gay men kissing.

But he was also a friendly and familiar face at the gay club he eventually terrorized, killing 49 people.

Investigators are trying to understand what spurred the New York-born security guard to commit the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.


Chris Callen, who worked at Pulse as a performer, told CNN's Anderson Cooper he'd seen Mateen dozens of times at the club. According to his estimate, Mateen visited Pulse twice a month over a period of three years.

Officials say they're looking into the possibility Omar Mateen radicalized on his own.

"He was very friendly when we said 'hi.' He didn't seem like the kind of guy who just did what he did. It makes no sense," Callen said.

"My partner said that he was very nice [and seemed] comfortable.

Prior visits to Pulse are a line of inquiry investigators are pursuing, sources involved in the investigation tell CNN's Jim Scuitto and Evan Perez.

Pulse regular Kevin West told the Los Angeles Times that Mateen messaged him on a gay dating app several times in the year before the attack.

But that picture doesn't match up easily to the account of his coworkers who said Mateen was known to frequently spew anti-gay remarks.

'Pulse' performer says shooter frequented the club 02:15

"He was an angry person, violent in nature, and a bigot to almost every class of person," Dan Gilroy told CNN affiliate WPTV-TV in West Palm Beach. The former police officer asserts that he foresaw Mateen eventually committing an act of mass violence.

Mateen's ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, described a brief but violent relationship to a mentally-ill man whom she was only able to escape from through her family's help. She said he was physically abusive and a steroid abuser.

Mateen had even come to the attention of authorities, with the FBI interviewing him in two terror-related cases in recent years.

But both of the investigations were closed, and Mateen -- who would go on to call 911 and pledge allegiance to ISIS during his rampage -- was not under investigation or surveillance at the time of the attack.



Anti-gay sentiment


The shooter's father, Seddique Mateen of Port St. Lucie, recalled an incident where his son reacted to a gay couple displaying affection.

He told CNN his son "had a reaction" when he saw the two men kissing in public, near women and children. The sighting "was surprising" to his son.
But the father didn't clarify further what kind of reaction his son had.

Gilroy, Mateen's former co-worker at PGA Village in Port St. Lucie, said Mateen often made homophobic, sexist and racist remarks.

"He would hit things and as he was hitting things, he would yell, and of course there was always curse words involved, and this wasn't seldom, this was all the time."

Witness: We thought gunshots were 'part of the music' 05:24

He said he asked his employers not to be assigned to work alongside Mateen, but this request was denied. At that point, Gilroy told Mateen he didn't want to continue their relationship on a personal level, according to WPTV.

"He acted very negatively toward that. He then started to text me 20 to 30 times a day. Call me 15 to 20 times," he said.

He said he wished he could have done something to prevent the tragedy.

"I saw it coming. I mean everything," he said. "He said he was going to kill a whole bunch of people."

Why the U.S. has the most mass shootings


FBI had investigated him twice


Mateen first came on the FBI's radar in 2013 when he made "inflammatory comments to co-workers alleging possible terrorist ties," Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ronald Hopper said. But investigators "were unable to verify the substance of his comments," he said.

In 2014, the FBI interviewed Mateen again over possible connections with Moner Mohammad Abu-Salha, a Florida man who became the first known American suicide bomber in Syria. The two men frequented the same mosque.
"We determined that contact was minimal and did not constitute a substantive relationship or threat at that time," Hopper said.


As a result, the mass killer was able to purchase a handgun and assault rifle legally in the days before the massacre, said Trevor Velino of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told reporters.

Mateen had tried to buy body armor, but the store where he tried to make the purchase didn't sell that product, according to a store manager.



''A hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda'


Comey, the FBI director, said that the agency is "highly confident" Mateen was radicalized, at least in part, by viewing extremism on the internet.

"There are strong indications of radicalization by this killer and of potential inspiration by foreign terrorist organizations," Comey said.


He said that investigators have found no indication the attack was directed from outside the United States or that Mateen was part of any kind of network.

According to one official, analysis of Mateen's electronic devices showed searches for jihadist propaganda, including videos of ISIS beheading.

"He consumed a hell of a lot of jihadist propaganda," the source said.



Married with a child

Orlando gunman was on FBI's radar 01:32

Mateen lived in a condo in Fort Pierce, Florida, with his second wife, a woman named Noor Salman, according to documents CNN obtained. He also had a son, 3½, according to Mateen's father.

He had worked for nine years as a security officer at G4S Secure Solutions, one of the world's largest private security companies.

According to a neighbor, he was a security guard at the St. Lucie County Courthouse, often manning the metal detectors at the front of the building.



Ex-wife: He abused me


His first wife, Yusufiy, painted a damning portrait of the killer, describing a physically abusive marriage to a man with anger issues.

Ex-wife of Orlando shooter speaks out 01:09

Yusufiy, who is originally from Uzbekistan, said the relationship had started well after they met online about seven years ago.

"In the beginning, he was a normal being that cared about family, loved to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I saw his instability," she said.

"He would get mad out of nowhere. That's when I started worrying about my safety."

She said the abuse became a regular occurrence.

"He started abusing me physically, very often, and not allowing me to speak to my family, keeping me hostage from them," Yusufiy said.

"(My family) had to pull me out of his arms and find an emergency flight. ... I made a police report."

While her ex-husband was religious, she said, she did not believe his religion played a role in the attack, she said.
(Me: I have read other articles today where she was quoted as saying he took steroids during his heavy workout days, and that he was bipolar. :confused3 )



Father baffled by killings


Mateen's father, meanwhile, has said he's stunned by his son's actions and had no inkling that his son was about to commit an act of mass violence.

Photos: Worst mass shootings in U.S.
"I am as shocked as you are," he told CNN.

The killer was known to worship at the Fort Pierce Islamic Center.

Shooter's father: Islam had nothing to do with this 01:22

In a separate interview, his father -- who had an occasional television show on an Afghan satellite channel in which he regularly criticized Afghanistan's government and Pakistan -- said he saw no religious motivation in the killing.

"Radicalism? No. He doesn't have a beard even. When someone becomes radical, they grow long beards and they wear clothes that you know, long clothes, and I don't think religion or Islam had nothing to do with this," he said.

He may have pledged allegiance to ISIS because "he wanted to boost himself," he said.

(Have read some other weird stuff about the father today but won't even get into trying to repeat it right now.)

(The FBI has their hands full.)
 
tough to say that given the confirmed 911 call, and the unconfirmed although multiple quoted sources of the things he yelled while he was doing the shooting. and then there are the fbi investigations and the couple of "mini" pilgrimages he took to the Mideast in the past couple of years.

Although he's also widely credited with claiming allegiance to Hezbollah and al-Qaeda, and considering that Hezbollah and ISIL are sworn and mortal enemies and ISIL and al-Qaeda are competitors who do not collaborate, I think it's increasingly and more likely that he was just another hate-filled person who self-radicalized without really understanding the ideology of the organizations whose mantels he was claiming. I think he tried to cloak his rage and hatred, both for others and for himself, under the flag of terrorism because it would make him a martyr and bring him "glory" but in the end I suspect his religion has much less to do with his actions than his desire to unleash his anger and hatred on innocent people.
 
I can't not hate this person and what he did.

I can't hate someone I don't know, regardless of what they do. Hate, for me, is a very personal emotion (and fortunately - so far! - never a very lasting one, because it's a poisonous emotion to be saddled with).

I'm appalled. And saddened. And angry. But I can't hate the shooter.

I think, in the end, when the whole story comes out, I'll probably end up feeling pity for that miserable creature. And I'll want to know what we can do to get to people like him, before they explode. After all, one coworker has already said that the shooter used to regularly spew hatred against women, gay people, other minorities, etc., and that he "wasn't surprised" to hear what happened.

The shooter was, by all accounts, entirely consumed by hatred. I don't want to see his legacy be the spread of ever more hate, like some vicious contagion.
 
If it's like many of their other attacks, they don't plan them. They just instruct people on how to carry out their own independently planned attacks - and how to give them credit.
It's even more than that. What he did in one of the 911 calls was to publicly pledge his allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. al-Baghdadi is the declared "Caliph" per ISIS. According to the interpretation of Islamic Law that ISIS follows, any Muslim that dies without making such a public pledge to a Caliph dies a "death of disbelief" (i.e. "No heaven for you!"). The Orlando shooter may have had a hard time figuring out WHICH branch of radical Islam that he wanted to adhere to, but I seems like he settled on one, and answered their call to launch attacks from within, and followed it's proscribed playbook pretty darn well. To me, whether the flow of information between ISIS and the shooter was uni or bi-directional doesn't really make much difference.
 
The day before that attack -- the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history -- Mateen spent several hours at Disney Springs, the shopping and entertainment complex inside the Walt Disney World Resort, law enforcement officials said.

Authorities said they believe Mateen was alone at that time.


This is frightening to me and has really shaken me up. I honestly try not to live with the "what ifs" but I was at Disney Springs on Friday. I'm not sure if they mean he was at Disney Springs Saturday during the day of the attack or if it was Friday. Either way it is possible I walked by this individual and it seems it was just luck that something at Disney Springs didn't set him off. There was a moment M and I decided to split so the boys (M and my friend's husband D) and girls (myself and friend S) could have some time to bond. The boys were at the movie theater and the girls at Sprinkles. Just can't wrap my head around the fact he was there and walk through the same areas all while planning to do something as awful as this.

I have to imagine Disney hasn't spoken yet because they are trying to figure out what to do as well.
 
A former male classmate said the killer asked him out romantically. It looks like the killer hated gays because he was one and couldn't fight it. Lots of people who speak out against the gay community are repressed gay people themselves. This event is not related to IS. "Closing our borders" to Muslims would not have made a difference.

Especially since he was an American citizen by birth.
 
This is an ongoing, fluid investigation with a lot of moving parts. Right now, and there's a lot more rumor and speculation than solid facts about the shooter.
 
Although he's also widely credited with claiming allegiance to Hezbollah and al-Qaeda, and considering that Hezbollah and ISIL are sworn and mortal enemies and ISIL and al-Qaeda are competitors who do not collaborate, I think it's increasingly and more likely that he was just another hate-filled person who self-radicalized without really understanding the ideology of the organizations whose mantels he was claiming. I think he tried to cloak his rage and hatred, both for others and for himself, under the flag of terrorism because it would make him a martyr and bring him "glory" but in the end I suspect his religion has much less to do with his actions than his desire to unleash his anger and hatred on innocent people.
Exactly.
 












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