Marvel Contract?

fannatic

Mouseketeer
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
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Is there anyone "in the know" that knows if Disney has gotten anywhere with their discussions with Universal about the Marvel contract? Jim Hill said several months ago that there were behind the scenes talks to see if Disney could bring some or all Marvel characters to WDW. There was reportedly a lot of money offered. Since Jim Hill seems MIA on the Net lately, does anyone else know the latest on this issue?:)
 
I think anyone high enough to have any knowledge of these contract negotiations knows to keep their mouth shut and not discuss it here or with anyone who would post here.

So its going to the the same rumor and conjecture that it always is.:thumbsup2
 
The issue you have is that it came from Jim Hill, so the chances it's spot on are very very minuscule.
 
That rumor has been circulating from dozens of "sources" since the Marvel purchase. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Disney tried to get the rights back. Why not try? While there may not have been any formal talks, frankly it would shock me if there weren't any sort of back-channel communications to feel-out one another on the topic.

But at this point it appears that either Universal wasn't interested or Disney didn't offer enough. USF just put a lot of money into upgrading their Spider-Man ride. Doesn't seem likely that would happen if there was any chance of them selling-off the rights in the near future.

Universal's rights are limited to parks east of the Mississippi. And even then it's limited to specific characters. I believe the characters are Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, X-Men and Captain America...along with villains and others peripheral to that group.

All of the Marvel characters could be used at any Disney park outside of Walt Disney World. And characters not on the above list (Iron Man, Ghost Rider, Nick Fury, etc.) could even be integrated into WDW.

That said, Disney hasn't shown much interest in doing so thus far. It's been 2.5 years since the Marvel purchase and we have a pretty good idea what Disney has in the pipeline for the next 2.5 - 3 years. No Marvel planned for the parks other than t-shirts and other souvenirs.

Everything I have read suggests that the USF/Marvel contract is very specific on what characters can be used and how they can use them. Universal can't make major changes or additions to that land without approval. So there may come a point where Universal decides on its own to re-theme due to the restrictions in place. Or, Disney could decide that the licensing fees it gets from Universal are more valuable than being able to integrate those characters into WDW.
 

The value of the Marvel characters has skyrocketed since Universal contracted to use them. It's probably the best deal since Seward purchased Alaska from the Russians! Universal has absolutely no reason to give up the rights except maybe for a ton of money. Disney can't afford that price tag. Ain't ever going to happen in our lifetimes.

BobK/Orlando
 
All of these are good points, but I've read the contract and about it. If I remember correctly, Universal has to keep the attractions in top notch shape or Marvel could break the contract. This explains the new Spider-Man and other refurbishments to the land. As long as they keep their end of the deal, it seems that the only other option Disney would have would be to buy out the contract. However, I've read that there were questions regarding the Marvel characters not being used by Universal. I could see a deal where Disney might acquire the rights for Thor and Iron Man, because they are not used in an attraction. Deadline Hollywood explained that the contract is very narrow regarding what characters can be used. :)
 
All of these are good points, but I've read the contract and about it. If I remember correctly, Universal has to keep the attractions in top notch shape or Marvel could break the contract. This explains the new Spider-Man and other refurbishments to the land. As long as they keep their end of the deal, it seems that the only other option Disney would have would be to buy out the contract. However, I've read that there were questions regarding the Marvel characters not being used by Universal. I could see a deal where Disney might acquire the rights for Thor and Iron Man, because they are not used in an attraction. Deadline Hollywood explained that the contract is very narrow regarding what characters can be used. :)

My knowledge base may be wrong, but if I remember correctly Disney already owns the rights to Iron man and Thor as they are not used in specific attractions at USF/IOA. Which would make the need to purchase them obsolete.
 
All of these are good points, but I've read the contract and about it. If I remember correctly, Universal has to keep the attractions in top notch shape or Marvel could break the contract. This explains the new Spider-Man and other refurbishments to the land. As long as they keep their end of the deal, it seems that the only other option Disney would have would be to buy out the contract. However, I've read that there were questions regarding the Marvel characters not being used by Universal. I could see a deal where Disney might acquire the rights for Thor and Iron Man, because they are not used in an attraction. Deadline Hollywood explained that the contract is very narrow regarding what characters can be used. :)

Every story I have read about the USF licensing has been very vague. And as the old saying goes, the devil is in the details.

Recurring themes in every write up are:

1. USF has exclusive rights to select characters only.
2. Rights are limited to theme parks east of the Mississippi.
3. Some minimum standards of upkeep exist.
4. Any future development would have to be approved by Marvel (now Disney.)
5. The contract is evergreen and USF can continue to renew ad infinitum.

Aside from that, other details are largely unknown. We don't know how stringent the upkeep standards may be. We don't know if USF has any leeway at all to swap-out attractions or theming in the future. We don't know if there are stated means for dispute resolution between the parties (i.e. arbitration, litigation, etc.)

IMO nothing is going to change in the near future. Universal isn't going to relinquish the rights. Disney does not even have plans to integrate the characters in the 7+ parks where they could, so I can't see them making any grand payouts to USF to end the deal.

That said, it's certainly conceivable that the rights could fall back to Disney at some point in the future. I can envision a scenario where Disney slowly begins to add characters to parks where they are legally able to do so. They could even add non-licensed characters like Iron Man and Thor to WDW. One story I read suggested that Disney could add some sort of Marvel restaurant to Downtown Disney--which included characters licensed by USF--because Downtown Disney didn't qualify as a "theme park" as defined within USF's licensing exclusivity.

Meanwhile, Disney could impose strict upkeep requirements on USF and limit them from making any material changes to the Marvel land. That combination could leave USF re-thinking the arrangement.

Of course, it could take 15+ years for the parties to get to that point.

In the interim, Disney will continue to earn theme park licensing dollars off of the Marvel characters...something they aren't even doing at Disneyland, DLP and other locations where they legally could.
 
Totally off the wall here, but I'm thinking along the whole "east of the Mississippi" clause. Would it be in any way possible for Disney to approach Universal about adding clones of one or more of the Marvel attractions to one of Disney's parks outside of Orlando?

That would be highly unusual, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.
 
Totally off the wall here, but I'm thinking along the whole "east of the Mississippi" clause. Would it be in any way possible for Disney to approach Universal about adding clones of one or more of the Marvel attractions to one of Disney's parks outside of Orlando?

That would be highly unusual, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.

Yes according to what I read Disney can use those character outside of Orlando, but they just can't clone the rides.

US physically owns the rides and probably the design of the rides. So Disney would be in the position of now licencing the ride designs from US.

If US just suddenly lost the rights, the rides would stay and just be rethemed to what ever they had the rights to.
 
My knowledge base may be wrong, but if I remember correctly Disney already owns the rights to Iron man and Thor as they are not used in specific attractions at USF/IOA. Which would make the need to purchase them obsolete.

The agreement gives Universal the rights to any character they are currently using and any other character in the same "family". Since they have a resturant based on Captain America this would give them exclusive rights to Ironman and Thor also. Here is the relevant section of the agreement:

"East of The Mississippi - any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted. [For purpose of this subsection and subsection iv, a character is “being used by MCA” if (x) it or another character of the same “family” (e.g., any member of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, THE AVENGERS or villains associated with a hero being used) is more than an incidental element of an attraction, is presented as a costumed character, or is more than an incidental element of the theming of a retail store or food facility; "

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm
 
Disney loves making money without doing any work, i.e. Pleasure Island closing. I bet they make enough money off of the liscence fees that they would never want to have to take the time and expense to add the "contracted" charachters to Florida themeparks. I think you may see meet n greets with the non-contracted characters similar to the way they used the Power Rangers in HS.
 
If Disney decided to sever the contract for cause, say, if USF failed some vague minimum level of upkeep, I'm betting there would be a VERY expensive and drawn out legal battle, during which Disney still wouldn't be able to touch the characters.

The "same family" clauses can be pretty vague unless each is spelled out. There is so much crossover in comics that it could potentially cover every single character. But if you read the WHOLE section, MCA must have used the character in more than an incidental way.

That filing doesn't mention any specific characters. And it appears to say that they can add characters, and the exclusivity clauses will apply.

Other interesting bits...

...if US decides to create another Marvel place at another park, they automatically get exclusivity across the U.S. And if they build one at any of a number of other countries, the exclusivity applies across all of them.

...if someone else uses Marvel properties, they cannot promote it with the word Marvel. And if any of the characters MCA used are used west of the Mississippi, then it can't be promoted east of the Mississippi.

And I don't see anything about if Disney used, say, Doctor Strange, that Universal couldn't then usurp it, but I could have missed it. But it seems to be written to make it very difficult for anyone else to use them at all.
 
So, if the Deadline article is right, there must be a separate contract that spells out what characters, etc. because they aren't mentioned in the other link.
 
If Disney decided to sever the contract for cause, say, if USF failed some vague minimum level of upkeep, I'm betting there would be a VERY expensive and drawn out legal battle, during which Disney still wouldn't be able to touch the characters.

Agree.

The "same family" clauses can be pretty vague unless each is spelled out. There is so much crossover in comics that it could potentially cover every single character. But if you read the WHOLE section, MCA must have used the character in more than an incidental way.

That filing doesn't mention any specific characters. And it appears to say that they can add characters, and the exclusivity clauses will apply.

IV (B) (1) states that the list of characters is included in an addendum. The specific mention of "Avengers" doesn't necessarily mean they have carte blanche to every character which has appeared in an Avengers comic, but I'm sure it's quite a liberal list.

Section IV (B) (1) (a) establishes MCA's exclusivity. Essentially it states that MCA had two years in order to secure character exclusivity for USF and additional exclusivity for other parks.

Section IV (B) (1) (a) (1) (i) (begins "East of Mississippi...") gives USF two years in order to integrate character families and lock in those rights. It states that "any other theme park is limited to using characters not currently being used by MCA at the time such other license is granted." In other words, if MCA didn't establish use of a character "family" at IoA within those two years, Marvel could license the character elsewhere. MCA/USF/IoA loses the exclusivity to additional characters after the two years.

The West of Mississippi and international options were also bound by the 2 year clause. Lack of action on MCA's part means they presumably lost the exclusivity. There's also mention of a 5-year extension on the exclusivity but with Islands of Adventure opening in 1999, those rights would have expired several years ago if they were even pursued by MCA.

Other interesting bits...

...if US decides to create another Marvel place at another park, they automatically get exclusivity across the U.S. And if they build one at any of a number of other countries, the exclusivity applies across all of them.

Again the 2+5 year exclusivity terms applied so that's off the table now.

...if someone else uses Marvel properties, they cannot promote it with the word Marvel. And if any of the characters MCA used are used west of the Mississippi, then it can't be promoted east of the Mississippi.

Read further and it does say that it can be promoted as part of national TV ads, magazines, brochures, etc. The other licensee just needs to make clear where the character presence is located. In other words, if Disney aired a generic "Disney Parks" commercial promoting a Spider-Man attraction at Disneyland, it would have to be clear that the attraction was at DL and not WDW. Fine print would probably be sufficient.

And I don't see anything about if Disney used, say, Doctor Strange, that Universal couldn't then usurp it, but I could have missed it. But it seems to be written to make it very difficult for anyone else to use them at all.

Depends upon whether or not he was included in any of the character families outlined in the addendum. Thor and Iron Man would certainly be part of Avengers so I guess they are off limits for WDW. I'm not enough of a comic devotee to know whether Doctor Strange could have fallen under Avengers, too.

In reading this information, its impossible to ignore how much Disney is likely earning without building a single thing. The Pleasure Island analogy is perfect. Marvel/Disney is earning licensing fees, royalties from merchandise and food sales, inclusion in national advertising, guaranteed ad buys in Marvel publications...and all of it is subject to CPI increases over the life of the contract. It's hard to assign much context without real numbers, though.

The assumption has always been that Disney would rush to extricate itself from the Universal contract so that it could use the characters in its own parks. But when you consider all of the intellectual property Disney knowingly chooses to NOT use, they may be just fine with these agreements. It's a steady stream of revenue...from the competition, no less...and Disney doesn't have to do a thing to earn it.
 
It makes me wonder how Disney is decorating one of their monorails to advertise the Avengers. Does this and Iger's recent Marvel comments signify some sort of new agreement?:)
 
It makes me wonder how Disney is decorating one of their monorails to advertise the Avengers. Does this and Iger's recent Marvel comments signify some sort of new agreement?:)

No, it means Disney is advertising a movie. They aren't advertising an attraction, plus there are the clauses about us in a theme park (the monorail is arguably not in a theme park although it passes over one, and can be considered transportation, not an attraction), so there is likely enough wiggle room in the terms to allow it.

Heck, Universal will probably be getting a push from the movie themselves...hard to argue with free publicity.
 












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