Marathon Weekend 2019

I don't think you need to worry about this happening. If you're truly right on the line, they're not going to penalize you for a PoT which suggests 2:46 and an estimated time of 2:44. The people who will get put into the last corral will be the ones who submit an estimated time of 2:30 and a PoT of 2:55, for example.
Except that I've seen it happen to friends - they submitted PoT that was close, but rD calculated a slower finish than the time friends selected. Bam, last corral. I have no desire to take that chance.

(ETA: but I contacted rD and, while they didn't share the math with me, they did tell me exactly what they calculated for my half time, so I'm all set now. But I'd still be wondering had I not asked them.)
 
I’m running my first Disney race and first marathon next year and I’m very excited! Reading through the thread I’ve got a question.

Why is corral placement such an issue? I’m running a HM in August to get a time, but I’m personally not worried if I would be a couple pace groups off. What am I missing? Should I be stressed about placement?

Some people don’t care and some people do. I care where I am because I don’t like the giant corrals that hold almost 50% of the 20,000 runners. I like being on the course in the dark for as long as possible because it’s FL and there is little to no shade. I’m not what I consider a fast runner and I’ll be starting the SWDS half from corral D. One goal of mine is to be fast enough to start in corral C!
 
I don't think you need to worry about this happening. If you're truly right on the line, they're not going to penalize you for a PoT which suggests 2:46 and an estimated time of 2:44. The people who will get put into the last corral will be the ones who submit an estimated time of 2:30 and a PoT of 2:55, for example.

Except that I've seen it happen to friends - they submitted PoT that was close, but rD calculated a slower finish than the time friends selected. Bam, last corral. I have no desire to take that chance.

(ETA: but I contacted rD and, while they didn't share the math with me, they did tell me exactly what they calculated for my half time, so I'm all set now. But I'd still be wondering had I not asked them.)

Hmmm, that's interesting as my experience was like @FFigawi posted. I don't remember the exact numbers now, but I put a slightly faster time (a few minutes I think) for our marathon finish based on our half PoT calculation. We ended up placed right where our PoT warranted and quite close to the cut for the next faster corral. Per the usual with rD... YMMV.
 
Some people don’t care and some people do. I care where I am because I don’t like the giant corrals that hold almost 50% of the 20,000 runners. I like being on the course in the dark for as long as possible because it’s FL and there is little to no shade. I’m not what I consider a fast runner and I’ll be starting the SWDS half from corral D. One goal of mine is to be fast enough to start in corral C!

This exactly for us. We were in D for Dopey, but oh so close to C. I wasn't one that was all that concerned about corral placement until we ran Tink at DL and had B corral placements. WOW! What a difference being in that earlier corral made, so I was really motivated to get the best possible placement for Dopey. We stop for approximately 1 million pictures along the way, so the earlier start helps a lot with course crowding and character lines (and finally this last year to ride Everest). Because we stop so much, we always eventually get overtaken by later corrals, but that head start on the course crowding and character lines is worth it to me to try and submit a good PoT.
 

So that means I would guess your average weekly pace should be around a 9:55-10:00 min/mile. But you're at a 9:12 min/mile. So I'd venture to guess you're training far too fast. Your average pace would be more indicative of appropriately paced training for someone at a 1:42 HM or a 46 min 10k.

@JBinORL Embrace the slower days. It's hard at first to wrap your head around the concept of "slowing down to get faster"... but it gets much easier when you start beating people in races that always outpace you on your easy/long days group runs. I've got a friend that runs all his training essentially the same speed (much faster than me). I've been beating him in races lately and it's bothering him. He told me "whatever you've been doing is working". I tried to tell him, but he cut me off pretty quickly by saying "I can't run that slow". Okay
 
So I think we've got your answer.

View attachment 314348

Your 10k suggests the following pacing structure. With 80% at 9:35 or slower. I write training plans for 5k, 10k, HM, or M (or anything in between). The common thread amongst the plans is the idea of 80% easy and 20% hard. While not advertised, many of the other traditional plans (Hansons, Galloway, Daniels, Higdon, Gaudette, Fitzgerald, etc.) follow a similar periodization of pacing (80/20). One of the only ones that doesn't is FIRST, but that has its own special characteristics that make up for it. When writing a plan regardless of distance that comes out around 80/20, my plans average weekly/monthly pace is very very close to the EB pace I schedule. So that means I would guess your average weekly pace should be around a 9:55-10:00 min/mile. But you're at a 9:12 min/mile. So I'd venture to guess you're training far too fast. Your average pace would be more indicative of appropriately paced training for someone at a 1:42 HM or a 46 min 10k.

So why can you succeed at the 10k and HM, but struggle with the M given this possible issue? Two reasons.

1) Those slower paces are paramount to eliciting the adaptations for a M. You can get away with the faster pacing structure on a 10k and HM because it doesn't have quite the same endurance demand that a M does. Primarily it comes down to Running Economy and the ability to maintain the Lactate Threshold at a set pace for a longer period of time. The worse off the RE, the faster the LT pace can shift and thus the "doom clock" gets started. Running slower improves RE. These slower paces also allow the body to actually adapt to the training. Instead of always being so focused on recovering from a stimulus, the body can instead adapt because of it.

2) Because it would seem you're training too quickly, then you carry more fatigue into your race events. Too much fatigue into a 10k or a HM, and you can survive it. Too much fatigue carried into a M, and it'll crush you real quick.

It's possible running an 11 min/mile is also hurting your racing experience, especially if that's not a pace your regularly train at. Different paces put different demands on the muscles, bones, feet, etc. Running at a pace that you haven't trained at for an extremely long duration is going to lead to fatigue to muscles that haven't been trained for that. I generally recommend trying to race a M somewhere between M pace and EB pace. If someone is doing several marathons in the course of a year (like 5), then running at a slower pace like EA then becomes a good option as well.

When I look at training, I look at durations. For endurance events, there are several windows of adaptations. A 60 min or less window, a 60-90 min window, and a 90-150 min window. The 60 min or less window is good for maintaining fatigue or recovering. A 60-90 min window is a good endurance booster. A 90-150 min window is a good running economy booster when the pacing is on target. Train too fast or for too long on some of these windows/pace and it shifts the adaptation/recovery response. You end up in the dreaded "Survive the training, instead of thriving because of it".

Interesting, thanks for the insight. I feel like my regular runs are done at a nice pace (usually 9:40-9:30) and my long runs tend to go a bit slower. When I'm running very long, like 14-20 miles, my pace is closer to 10:30-11:00. I'll try and ease off on the other runs.

My concern is if I run everything at such a slow pace (and 10:30/mile feels awfully slow, like it's awkward to run), how will I actually get any faster? I should note that my long-term (very, very, very long term) is to see if I can qualify for Boston.
 
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I’m running my first Disney race and first marathon next year and I’m very excited! Reading through the thread I’ve got a question.

Why is corral placement such an issue? I’m running a HM in August to get a time, but I’m personally not worried if I would be a couple pace groups off. What am I missing? Should I be stressed about placement?
Definitely don’t stress about corral placement, but do submit a time if you can. I’m a middle of the pack runner, and prefer to start with my fellow middle runners. Also, I like to stay near the pace groups at the beginning to claim my nerves and prevent me from starting too fast. Those pace groups are corralled correctly, so if you are in the last corral, you are out of luck.
 
Question for the folks who fall within the intersection of people who track their runs with smart phones and people who use Strava (or other run tracking software):

For the first time in about a billion years, I will no longer have a company phone and will be relying on my own phone. I use my iPhone and Strava to track my runs, but I've never had to worry about data usage before. I'll be getting a personal phone in the coming weeks and I'm curious how much data Strava - and similar apps - use? Is it enough that I should consider an unlimited data plan? I don't actually upload my runs until I get home, but I do use GPS throughout my runs to track pace, distance, etc.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Also, re: corrals - I don't recall getting super hung up on it for my first Disney marathon, but for my second, I do want to make sure I'm in the earliest corral I can be in. I like to get started as early as possible, limit my time waiting to get started, I want to get as many of those quiet, pre-dawn hours in as possible and I'm dying to run down Main Street, USA in the dark again. That was a special moment.
 
Interesting, thanks for the insight. I feel like my regular runs are done at a nice pace (usually 9:40-9:30) and my long runs tend to go a bit slower. When I'm running very long, like 14-20 miles, my pace is closer to 10:30-11:00. I'll try and ease off on the other runs.

My concern is if I run everything at such a slow pace (and 10:30/mile feels awfully slow, like it's awkward to run), how will I actually get any faster? I should note that my long-term (very, very, very long term) is to see if I can qualify for Boston.

That is the proverbial question, is it not? How can I get faster by actually training slower?

Read these - Testimonials: 2018 Disney Marathon Weekend; Winter/Spring 2018 (updated 3/19/18)

Personally, I trained too fast for years. PR the day! After my 5th failed attempt at breaking 4 hours, I decided to do a lot of research. I decided that if I was willing to follow other training plans, and yet wasn't yielding the outcome I was looking for, then maybe it was time to listen to other "radical" ideas. My 4th marathon was a 4:20 (PR at the time) in November 2014. My 5th marathon in May 2015 was a 4:58 (a PW). I changed the mindset and altered my training. My 6th marathon in October 2015 was a 3:38. I set PRs DURING the marathon in the SECOND half at HM, and nearly 10k and 5k! There's a ton of science behind the methodology. It seems so counterintuitive, but I hope the testimonials above can show that the method can work.

Science

If you want to learn about my training plan methodology, then start here:

How I write a custom training plan

Want some reading material on how I developed my philosophies, then start here:

Eureka! The Quintessential Running Post
Train slow to race fast: Why running more slowly and capping the long run at 2.5 hours may dramatically improve your performance
Why am I doing this run? The question every runner should be asking themselves.
The Marathon is 99% Aerobic (and 95% for HM and so on): So how to train for it!
Two kinds of impressive: The person who finishes first may not be the most impressive, it could be who finished last.
I only run 3 days a week and never as slow as marathon pace. How can I apply slowing down into my schedule and benefit? With only 3 days, I've gone with quality over quantity on my runs.

If you want some reading material from professional sources, then start here:

Hansons - Principles of pacing, training plan design, during marathon carbohydrate calculations (Hansons Marathon Method)
Stephen Seiler - Principles of balance in training plans (80% Easy and 20% Hard) (Seiler; and Fitzgerald - 80/20 Running)
Jack Daniels - Principles of maximum duration training per session, 5K training (Daniels Running Formula)
Arthur Lydiard - Principles of Specialization
Steve Magness - Principles of Adaptation and Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual (Science of Running)
Jeff Gaudette - Running technique (foot strike, breathing, shoulders, arms, eyesight), Principles of Aerobic and Anaerobic running and why warm-ups are important (runnersconnect.net; podcast)
Samuele Marcora - Psychobiological Model (motivation and perception of effort) (Countless scientific articles; or Fitzgerald - How Bad do you want it?)
Benjamin Rapoport - During marathon carbohydrate calculations (Rapoport)
Timothy Fairchild - Western Australian carbohydrate loading procedure for pre-running carb loading (Fairchild)
Hadd - Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual (Hadd's Approach to Distance Running)
Pete Magill - 5K training (Runners World)
 
That is the proverbial question, is it not? How can I get faster by actually training slower?

Read these - Testimonials: 2018 Disney Marathon Weekend; Winter/Spring 2018 (updated 3/19/18)

Personally, I trained too fast for years. PR the day! After my 5th failed attempt at breaking 4 hours, I decided to do a lot of research. I decided that if I was willing to follow other training plans, and yet wasn't yielding the outcome I was looking for, then maybe it was time to listen to other "radical" ideas. My 4th marathon was a 4:20 (PR at the time) in November 2014. My 5th marathon in May 2015 was a 4:58 (a PW). I changed the mindset and altered my training. My 6th marathon in October 2015 was a 3:38. I set PRs DURING the marathon in the SECOND half at HM, and nearly 10k and 5k! There's a ton of science behind the methodology. It seems so counterintuitive, but I hope the testimonials above can show that the method can work.

Science

If you want to learn about my training plan methodology, then start here:

How I write a custom training plan

Want some reading material on how I developed my philosophies, then start here:

Eureka! The Quintessential Running Post
Train slow to race fast: Why running more slowly and capping the long run at 2.5 hours may dramatically improve your performance
Why am I doing this run? The question every runner should be asking themselves.
The Marathon is 99% Aerobic (and 95% for HM and so on): So how to train for it!
Two kinds of impressive: The person who finishes first may not be the most impressive, it could be who finished last.
I only run 3 days a week and never as slow as marathon pace. How can I apply slowing down into my schedule and benefit? With only 3 days, I've gone with quality over quantity on my runs.

If you want some reading material from professional sources, then start here:

Hansons - Principles of pacing, training plan design, during marathon carbohydrate calculations (Hansons Marathon Method)
Stephen Seiler - Principles of balance in training plans (80% Easy and 20% Hard) (Seiler; and Fitzgerald - 80/20 Running)
Jack Daniels - Principles of maximum duration training per session, 5K training (Daniels Running Formula)
Arthur Lydiard - Principles of Specialization
Steve Magness - Principles of Adaptation and Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual (Science of Running)
Jeff Gaudette - Running technique (foot strike, breathing, shoulders, arms, eyesight), Principles of Aerobic and Anaerobic running and why warm-ups are important (runnersconnect.net; podcast)
Samuele Marcora - Psychobiological Model (motivation and perception of effort) (Countless scientific articles; or Fitzgerald - How Bad do you want it?)
Benjamin Rapoport - During marathon carbohydrate calculations (Rapoport)
Timothy Fairchild - Western Australian carbohydrate loading procedure for pre-running carb loading (Fairchild)
Hadd - Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual (Hadd's Approach to Distance Running)
Pete Magill - 5K training (Runners World)

Bookmarking this to read and re-read as much as possible over the next 23 days. I can't confess to understanding the methodology, but I can't wait to see how it pays off on the 29th. I can't argue with the results of so many other runners on these threads and look forward to adding my own testimonial in the coming weeks.
 
Question for the folks who fall within the intersection of people who track their runs with smart phones and people who use Strava (or other run tracking software):

For the first time in about a billion years, I will no longer have a company phone and will be relying on my own phone. I use my iPhone and Strava to track my runs, but I've never had to worry about data usage before. I'll be getting a personal phone in the coming weeks and I'm curious how much data Strava - and similar apps - use? Is it enough that I should consider an unlimited data plan? I don't actually upload my runs until I get home, but I do use GPS throughout my runs to track pace, distance, etc.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Also, re: corrals - I don't recall getting super hung up on it for my first Disney marathon, but for my second, I do want to make sure I'm in the earliest corral I can be in. I like to get started as early as possible, limit my time waiting to get started, I want to get as many of those quiet, pre-dawn hours in as possible and I'm dying to run down Main Street, USA in the dark again. That was a special moment.

You should be able to tell how much data you are using with each app.

Do you have an iPhone?
Settings>Cellular
Scroll to see “Cellular Data”
If you’ve never “reset statistics,” these numbers won’t mean much. You can scroll all the way to the bottom and reset statistics. Now over the next week or so you can watch how much data you use to estimate usage per month.
And if you don’t have an iPhone, I have no idea how to help you.

Maybe something to consider is the cost of buying more (unlimited) data vs that of buying a gps watch and not using data while running?

Good luck!
 
Does anyone know when they will announce the Early Registration dates for these races? It has to be coming up soon but I do not see any mention on RunDisney! :sad2:
 
Does anyone know when they will announce the Early Registration dates for these races? It has to be coming up soon but I do not see any mention on RunDisney! :sad2:
Nobody knows, could be April 12 for early based on past but wine & dine was delayed so yeah who knows. They may not update the date till sometime next week, you would hope sometime Monday if the date is the Thursday.
 
Question for the folks who fall within the intersection of people who track their runs with smart phones and people who use Strava (or other run tracking software):

For the first time in about a billion years, I will no longer have a company phone and will be relying on my own phone. I use my iPhone and Strava to track my runs, but I've never had to worry about data usage before. I'll be getting a personal phone in the coming weeks and I'm curious how much data Strava - and similar apps - use? Is it enough that I should consider an unlimited data plan? I don't actually upload my runs until I get home, but I do use GPS throughout my runs to track pace, distance, etc.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

I use a Garmin now, so I dont have any exact numbers, but back when I did use my phone, I worried more about my battery than about my data. I really don't think GPS tracking uses a significant amount of data. I've only ever had a max of 2GB (although now I'm sharing 10GB over a total of 5 devices) and I've never gotten close to going over my data.
 
Good morning, runDisney all-stars!

You guessed right ... Sundays are for Disney. Let's roll.

March Madness is over, but the party never stops on the Disboards! I'm coming at you today with our own Final Four, a WDW mountain showdown. So, what's your favorite mountain - Splash, Space, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or Expedition Everest?

I love all four attractions, but this is no contest for me. Splash Mountain is my all-time favorite ride at Disney. Sure, it's dated and I'm sure most of us have a tale of being stuck on it, but I love the ride, the music, the queue and, of course, the big drop.

Have a great week everyone!
 
March Madness is over, but the party never stops on the Disboards! I'm coming at you today with our own Final Four, a WDW mountain showdown. So, what's your favorite mountain - Splash, Space, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or Expedition Everest?

Don't tell my sister, but ... I gotta go Space. It's just so much fun, and there's never a dull moment.
(Big Thunder is a close second, though)
 
March Madness is over, but the party never stops on the Disboards! I'm coming at you today with our own Final Four, a WDW mountain showdown. So, what's your favorite mountain - Splash, Space, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or Expedition Everest?

None of the above. I’m definitely not a mountain man.
 




















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