Marathon Weekend 2016

[Z-Knight]

I wasn't able to google it, but it seems like you could figure out the impact by looking at the performance of elite athletes in races where there aren't motorcycles ahead of the lead runners.

Yeah possibly. I just don't think it is that obvious. I think a lot of these elite runners are from countries that have bigger problems and they won't be outright in complaining about the effect it has on them. I was only speculating that they may be even faster if those fumes are not there - though 5 minutes more faster might be a stretch. Anyway, not important, just a random thought

 

[Keels]

Well, no, it is not very "obvious" to me. Just because they ran with it doesn't mean it didn't affect them. They are peak athletes that utilize oxygen very well and I'm only speculating that any drop on the purity could affect them and was also speculating that if they didnt have this pollution them they could do even better. Many times the motorcycles were very close to them so you cant say that this obviously didnt affect them simply because they didn't complain about it.

I only know from covering athletes at the Olympics that many of them train in situations that almost exactly replicate potential event settings so they can see what max effort is before they go into an event. They train in odd elevations, replicate ozone conditions, heat, rain, etc. Like swimmers who don't shave for months because of the "drag" effect. Elite athletes are so careful with EVERYTHING they do in life - from intake of anything to body shape to even where they live. Most elite Olympic athletes live at least part of the year in high elevation climates - like Colorado - just because they believe that the acclimation and breathing strength they get from training in that elevation can give them a competive advantage. If for a second any of them thought that a support vehicle was keeping them from a milestone like a sub-2, all it takes is a complaint to the sports governing body and a change is made. It's really that simple.

You should read the story @FFigawi referenced for a better picture of what it would take for a sub-2. But the treadmill point is a good one, and course has a lot to do with it too. There was a long while when Austin was THE marathon you would run if you wanted to BQ because it's level for the first half and then downhill the second half.

Also, a sub-2 marathon at NYC means you win and set a US record. If any of these guys are going to push for a sub-2, it's going to be at Worlds or the Olympics.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm just concerned because those motorcylces are not the cleanest things out there and how close they are to the runners. I would not want to be breathing on that crap...

I live and run in the country, and I can feel/taste the difference when I have to run in some places when I travel. I agree - I wouldn't want to breathe that either. But I am not sure that it would hurt them. If they had to breathe in the carbon monoxide, it absolutely would impact them as carbon monoxide locks up hemoglobin until the red blood cell is replaced. Breathe in enough and you die. But I don't think that they would be breathing in the carbon monoxide - just tasting the unburned fuel.

 

[Keels]

Yeah possibly. I just don't think it is that obvious. I think a lot of these elite runners are from countries that have bigger problems and they won't be outright in complaining about the effect it has on them. I was only speculating that they may be even faster if those fumes are not there - though 5 minutes more faster might be a stretch. Anyway, not important, just a random thought

Also, while these guys run as Kenyans and Ethiopians, etc., they almost all reside in the US. For example:

 

[FFigawi]

Also, a sub-2 marathon at NYC means you win and set a US record. If any of these guys are going to push for a sub-2, it's going to be at Worlds or the Olympics.

I hate to disagree with my buddy @Keels, but a sub-2 new world record won't be set at the Olympics because the Olympics don't allow pacers. It'll be set in Berlin or Dubai or another race that has a flat course, nice weather, and loads of prize money. The guy who does it will run behind a wedge of pacers who keep him out of the wind resistance for as long as they possibly can. It might even take one set of pacers to get him to a 0:59 first half and another set for a 1:00 second half.

 

[Ariel484]

Agree with @FFigawi, I know Berlin in particular ALWAYS gets talked about each year.

 

[Keels]

I hate to disagree with my buddy @Keels, but a sub-2 new world record won't be set at the Olympics because the Olympics don't allow pacers. It'll be set in Berlin or Dubai or another race that has a flat course, nice weather, and loads of prize money. The guy who does it will run behind a wedge of pacers who keep him out of the wind resistance for as long as they possibly can. It might even take one set of pacers to get him to a 0:59 first half and another set for a 1:00 second half.

What if the Olymics are in Berlin or Dubai?

But you're right now that I think about it. And Dubai just because of the sheer amount of $$$ they can throw out there.

 

[kevdad]

I live and run in the country, and I can feel/taste the difference when I have to run in some places when I travel. I agree - I wouldn't want to breathe that either. But I am not sure that it would hurt them. If they had to breathe in the carbon monoxide, it absolutely would impact them as carbon monoxide locks up hemoglobin until the red blood cell is replaced. Breathe in enough and you die. But I don't think that they would be breathing in the carbon monoxide - just tasting the unburned fuel.

Likewise, I can definitely "taste" the difference when running in larger cities.

I'm reading a book called "Boston: A Century of Running" by Hal Higdon ($.99 for the Kindle right now if anyone cares.) This is an excerpt regarding the challenges runners faced in the early years of Boston before automobiles were outlawed from the course - not until 1947!

"The Marathon was covered by the six Boston newspapers, and each newspaper had its own car on the course. Each paper had a writer in the car and maybe two photographers. There were 2 official cars, so that made 8 in all. And I'm not even counting the wire services, the AP, UP and International News Service. They had their own cars, too, so that there were maybe 10 or 12 cars out there surrounding the runners. We'd all be concentrating on the leaders, and we'd be jockeying back and forth to get in position to get the best photos.... We kept cutting in and out and back and forth. It was like a race within a race. It was like Indianapolis in slow motion. We'd be yelling at the other cars, 'Get out of the way!' and they'd be yelling back at us. All the while, mind you, nobody is thinking of the poor runners, who were being caught up in the fumes from these cars and all but being asphyxiated."

Can you imagine??? I've had bicycles zooming around but 10-12 cars....wow.

 

[gjramsey]

October:
Mileage - 168 miles
Time - 23 hours 56 minutes
Avg Pace - 8:33 min/mile

And started Nov with a 20 miler

 

[opusone]

It might even take one set of pacers to get him to a 0:59 first half and another set for a 1:00 second half.

FYI: I don't believe that pacemakers are allowed to jump-in in the middle of the race. I'm almost positive they are required to start with the other runners.

 

[Kathymford]

@DopeyBadger I was reading the article you linked to in your post to CamColt and something ocurred to me as I was reading. Also, anyone else who has opinions, please feel free to chime in.

The part about "running aerobically" and efficiently using oxygen made me think of something. I have Thalassemia Minor; it really boils down to the fact that I have smaller than average-sized blood cells. Not really a big deal until it comes to genetics and kids, etc. But other than that, not a big deal (according to doctors). I never even found out until I was in my late-20s. It was really only discovered because most of the doctors used to tell me that I'm "slightly anemic" until one doctor did some extra testing. Apparently it's common in people from a Mediterranean area (I'm half Italian, so I guess that counts).

I haven't discussed the thalassemia with my doctors since I started running, but reading that part of the article makes me think that maybe I should. Could this be impacting my ability to improve? Obviously, just opinions, but I am curious.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@DopeyBadger I was reading the article you linked to in your post to CamColt and something ocurred to me as I was reading. Also, anyone else who has opinions, please feel free to chime in.

The part about "running aerobically" and efficiently using oxygen made me think of something. I have Thalassemia Minor; it really boils down to the fact that I have smaller than average-sized blood cells. Not really a big deal until it comes to genetics and kids, etc. But other than that, not a big deal (according to doctors). I never even found out until I was in my late-20s. It was really only discovered because most of the doctors used to tell me that I'm "slightly anemic" until one doctor did some extra testing. Apparently it's common in people from a Mediterranean area (I'm half Italian, so I guess that counts).

I haven't discussed the thalassemia with my doctors since I started running, but reading that part of the article makes me think that maybe I should. Could this be impacting my ability to improve? Obviously, just opinions, but I am curious.

I'll take a shot at it. I'm not a doctor, but it would seem plausible to me that it could affect performance the closer you get to the point of being out of breath (the Ventilatory Threshold). This website seems to have a lot of people on it asking very similar questions.

www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com

I googled "Thalassemia Minor endurance sports" and that website came up with several forum topics. I'm always hesitant to take everything said on forums with full value, but it does seem many discuss common symptoms of having Thalassemia Minor (Longer Recovery Time between exercise, slower than anticipated during exercise, etc.). Anecdotally, it appears there were several people on that forum that completed marathons but felt as if their performance was hindered by the condition.

I wasn't able to find many scientific articles on the condition and endurance sports measured directly. One of the articles I could find (linked here) gave a brief overview of Thalassemia Minor and in addition the effects of low Hb and possible treatment.

The most interesting thing I found during this research adventure was that tennis legend Pete Sampras and soccer legend Zinedine Zidane had this condition and excelled at their area of sport. I believe that their level of achievement in their sport would show that competing in running events and Thalassemia Minor can coexist. I would definitely talk to your doctor about it though as they can give you professional advice as long as they are well informed about the condition itself. It seemed like hydration, deep breathing, and change in nutrition were common suggestions from other people's interaction with doctors.

 

[Waiting2goback]

I'm not trying to change the subject but this article I am going to post was posted on another thread I participate on. It is a good one so I thought you guys might appreciate it.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/meb-keflezighi-marathon-running/

 

[SarahDisney]

I'm not trying to change the subject but this article I am going to post was posted on another thread I participate on. It is a good one so I thought you guys might appreciate it.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/meb-keflezighi-marathon-running/

Thank you for sharing! I really loved this article. Meb really is such a great ambassador for the sport of running ... he may be an insanely fast runner, but he knows what it's like to struggle and he's always willing to share that information.

 

[FFigawi]

FYI: I don't believe that pacemakers are allowed to jump-in in the middle of the race. I'm almost positive they are required to start with the other runners.

You are correct. They're not. It'll be almost impossible to break two hours without being paced nearly the whole way, so I am guessing that when someone does try to achieve it, the rules will be changed solely for that attempt. There are only a handful of people capable of running 2:02 or 2:03 today, and I doubt they'll want to pace someone else to the record. They'll want it themselves.

 

[Kathymford]

I'll take a shot at it. I'm not a doctor, but it would seem plausible to me that it could affect performance the closer you get to the point of being out of breath (the Ventilatory Threshold). This website seems to have a lot of people on it asking very similar questions.

www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com

I googled "Thalassemia Minor endurance sports" and that website came up with several forum topics. I'm always hesitant to take everything said on forums with full value, but it does seem many discuss common symptoms of having Thalassemia Minor (Longer Recovery Time between exercise, slower than anticipated during exercise, etc.). Anecdotally, it appears there were several people on that forum that completed marathons but felt as if their performance was hindered by the condition.

I wasn't able to find many scientific articles on the condition and endurance sports measured directly. One of the articles I could find (linked here) gave a brief overview of Thalassemia Minor and in addition the effects of low Hb and possible treatment.

The most interesting thing I found during this research adventure was that tennis legend Pete Sampras and soccer legend Zinedine Zidane had this condition and excelled at their area of sport. I believe that their level of achievement in their sport would show that competing in running events and Thalassemia Minor can coexist. I would definitely talk to your doctor about it though as they can give you professional advice as long as they are well informed about the condition itself. It seemed like hydration, deep breathing, and change in nutrition were common suggestions from other people's interaction with doctors.

Thanks! Yes, my ears perked up when Pete Sampras admitted he had it also, but only after he retired. I guess they thought it was a competitive disadvantage, which may seem to be why he was always so much better at the quick matches!

Thank you for looking into it. I had never really thought about the connection, but I do plan to discuss it with my doctor. Not that I'm trying to be an elite athlete or anything, I just want to be better. And healthy. I did a couple of searches myself before I posed the question, but like you, mostly found forum posts and a few quite old at that. I will dig around on that board you posted and see if I can find something more recent.

Thanks again!

 

[Neoflynn]

Training check! How did everyone's October go? Can you believe we are only 2 months away?!?!

Total Miles: 110
Average Pace: 9'58"/mile

on a side note thought you all would appreciate my family's Halloween attire

 

[Baloo in MI]

Total Miles: 110
Average Pace: 9'58"/mile

on a side note thought you all would appreciate my family's Halloween attire

That is awesome!

 

[derekleigh]

I think it will be a very exciting moment when we see a sub-2:00 marathon. I don't expect to see it for another 10 years (pray I'm wrong). I'll even predict it will happen in Berlin, since that course is favorable for breaking records.

I read an article regarding what it would take to run a sub-2:00 marathon and once subtopic focused on the mental aspect of running. It revealed that some of the top runners came from poor and/or many hardships early in life and that transferred into mental toughness for running. They also predicted that everything being physically even, the mental toughness would be the deciding factor for running a sub-2:00 marathon.

Rather interesting as I've never looked at it through those eyes.

 

[derekleigh]

I think it will be a very exciting moment when we see a sub-2:00 marathon. I don't expect to see it for another 10 years (pray I'm wrong). I'll even predict it will happen in Berlin, since that course is favorable for breaking records.

I read an article regarding what it would take to run a sub-2:00 marathon and once subtopic focused on the mental aspect of running. It revealed that some of the top runners came from poor and/or many hardships early in life and that transferred into mental toughness for running. They also predicted that everything being physically even, the mental toughness would be the deciding factor for running a sub-2:00 marathon.

Rather interesting as I've never looked at it through those eyes.