Marathon Weekend 2016

[DopeyBadger]

I use the Australian method - for me that means 3500 calories worth of carbs the day before the race. That is more than my normal caloric intake on a day without exercise (by about 1000 calories), but it works. The key is to do some short but very vigorous running just before you start your carb load. For some reason this helps your legs take on more glycogen than they do under normal circumstances.

Also, remember - complex carbs only. No juice and no products made with corn syrup. Those carbs don't convert properly.

I'm really interested in using this method the next time around and honestly a little scared of it. Let me know if I got this correct from reading the original 2002 paper, they make the following recommendations:

-Morning before marathon, warm-up for 5 minutes. Run 150 seconds at 130% VO2max (4:30 minute mile for me), followed by 30 seconds at all out speed. This sounds INTENSE!
-Within 20 minutes of completion of the run start the carb loading protocol.
-10.3 g carbs per kg body weight (technically 12 g per kg lean body mass), which for me is 787 g carbs.
-It is recommended that ~80% of the carbs consumed should be in liquid complex carb form (for me 629 g carbs). They used Polycose as their liquid maltodrextin. The other 20% should be complex carbs (pasta, bread, rice).
-The carbs should constitute 90% of the diet, and the remainder filled with protein and fat. 1g protein = 4 cals and 1g fat = 9 cals. Thus, roughly 3500 total calories needs to be consumed (3146 of which is from carbs (787x4), 280 cals from protein (70g), and 70 cals of fat (roughly 8g) for me.
-Absolutely no exercise after the carb loading procedure begins.

Does this sound like a good summary to you? What liquid carb source do you use? Do you have a sample of your previously used diet plan?

 

[SarahDisney]

Picture Time, Part 3:

5K, starring Pluto:
Front: (It's a little blurry, but I think you can still see it pretty well)

Ribbon:

And, finally, the Kids' Races:
Front: (Also a little blurry, sorry)

Ribbon:

That's all I've got. If I go back tomorrow I'll try to get some marathon medal pictures (they said they'll have a new one tomorrow), but I don't think I'll have time to go.

If anyone else is in the NY area and wants to check it out ... the expo is at the Javits Center. Lots of cool stuff there. It's open tomorrow 10 to 7 (I think, it might be open until 8) and Saturday 10 to 5.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Picture Time, Part 3:

Thanks so much for these pictures!

 

[margitmouse]

I think this is directed at me??? If so, I haven't changed my setting in my Garmin. When we are talking about resting heart rate, are we discussing what it is at upon waking up and not getting out of the bed, or just our body at rest at any point of the day?



My current knee issue is probably going to keep me from running today... again. I will try a few mile in the morning and see how it feels, and if its good to go Saturday I am overdue a 17-20 miler. I think part of the problem other than the golfing could also be my shoes. I may have pushed them beyond what I thought I could get out of them ~ 365/400 miles. I have a pair of lighter and flater shoes I only run shorter training runs with because I want to use them for the race so I don't want to really put a lot of miles in them other than to make sure I can run 15+ miles with them for the marathon. They are a lot less forgiving on my feet as well. I am going to buy some new shoes tomorrow, but taking them out for a long run on the first run sounds like a very bad idea.... All I know is I am in a very bad mood.

Sorry to hear about the knee!

I will offer up a spot on my fife and drum corps if you're interested!!!!!


..... My doctor has told me no running til I see the cardiologist... That puts me out of running W&D ... But from the back of G, I might be able to walk it ........... :/

I mean, what do they know anyway? All that information they spend years acquiring ......is merely suggestions, right?!?!?!
Where's Barboza? He'll back me up!


*sigh*
Maybe I'll storm the office tomorrow......

 

[LSUlakes]

The same with me. I signed up for my first race, as runDisney race, as a way to make improvements in my life. I had no idea I would get a medal or anything. I like the medals, don't get me wrong. But they are currently all sitting in a drawer right now. I have favorite races and favorite medals. I tend to look for races that are well run and those just happen to come with better medals.

But I agree with some previous posters, if medals are what motivates you then enjoy. I do know that when/if (but really when) I get the Boston marathon medal, that one will be extra special, even more than the Disney medals.



Do you listen to the Marathon Training Academy podcast by any chance? If not, Angie (one of the cohosts) went to a similar "camp". I know it was on the east cost but I want to say it might have been at Virginia Tech. She talked about it on a podcast. They analyzed EVERYTHING for her. I think it was around $1000 if I remember correctly, but I may be wrong. I tried to find which episode but I couldn't find it yet. I will see if I can figure it out for you in the next couple of days.

I personally like the idea of a coach. Angie happens to be a coach and she has a lot of experience so she needed to just tighten up on some stuff. She has run 32 full marathons and did 2 ultra marathons this year. She is a BQ. So she knows her stuff.



I have read his 80/20 Running book. It was good. But I have heard him on a couple podcasts talking about the nutrition. That's his thing. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up his books if you need some help to fix your nutrition.



I have been frustrated the last week or so as well. I ran today. Everything was hurting after 2 miles. That never happens to me. I am starting to think it is the sneakers. My feet and ankles are so sore. When I put my sneakers on they still feel as soft as clouds but maybe they need to just be my "walking around the parks" sneakers now. I may go try and buy some new ones tomorrow.

I have listened to one or two but haven't heard that one. If you stumble upon it let me know. Thanks for you comments. Cost is about the same for the week class. A little under $1,000

 

[Baloo in MI]

Thanks for all of the awesome feedback! I finally took the leap and registered for the marathon!! I'm feeling such a mix of pure excitement and also anxiety about completing the marathon distance for the first time. But I know in the end it'll be such a great feeling to have completed the marathon, even at the back of the pack

Congrats, great choice!

 

[margitmouse]

@SarahDisney, Thanks for the photos!!!
That must have been so much fun, and huge!!!
I went to the Boston expo with a friend... It was sensory overload. We thought we'd be there for an hour and a half, maybe.
I think we were there for about 3!!!
So much stuff to see, interesting race information, interesting people to watch

 

[SarahDisney]

@SarahDisney, Thanks for the photos!!!
That must have been so much fun, and huge!!!
I went to the Boston expo with a friend... It was sensory overload. We thought we'd be there for an hour and a half, maybe.
I think we were there for about 3!!!
So much stuff to see, interesting race information, interesting people to watch

You're welcome!
We were there for about an hour and a half and there was still plenty we didn't see. It was incredible.
We probably could have stayed for longer, but it was late and we wanted to get home. If I had time, I'd go back tomorrow.

 

[Keels]

@SarahDisney -- You are a ROCKSTAR!!!

Thank you so much! I'm jealous that you got to see and touch the medals already!!

 

[SarahDisney]

Thank you so much! I'm jealous that you got to see and touch the medals already!!

You're welcome!
You can see and touch them next week at the Wine & Dine Expo! And you can get those marathon medal pictures that I couldn't get...

 

[Neoflynn]

For those not on Twitter here is the marathon medal photo rundisney posted on Twitter

Thanks for posting this I was about to go searching for it as I wanted a close up and I have to say I'm impressed even more now that I see it close up, I love the castle cutout and the overall design cant wait to earn it!!!!

 

[Baloo in MI]

It feels so real now! It is really excitign to see the medals. I have been thinkning about that Dopey Medal for over a year. Actually all the way back to April of 14 when I waited too long to sign up and found out Dopey was full. Ran Goofy and it was a great challenge but now I am ready to take on Dopey. Thank you to SarahDisney for posting the pictures. LSUlakes I hope your knee starts cooperating; I understand the frustration. Dealing with the same issue right now; doing lots of stretching and am moving to a new shoe. Two months to go!

 

[cavepig]

@LSUlakes I had been having major knee issues (not IT Band), it was top of knee, bottom of knee & inside of knee, to the point just walking hurt. I went up a size in shoe and wear arch supports, apparently that combination has helped a ton, pain is basically not noticable. Also, I massage my knees as well as quads and calves as if they are tight it pulls the muscles causing knee pain. Hoping you figure it out and can 'fix' it.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm really interested in using this method the next time around and honestly a little scared of it. Let me know if I got this correct from reading the original 2002 paper, they make the following recommendations:

-Morning before marathon, warm-up for 5 minutes. Run 150 seconds at 130% VO2max (4:30 minute mile for me), followed by 30 seconds at all out speed. This sounds INTENSE!
-Within 20 minutes of completion of the run start the carb loading protocol.
-10.3 g carbs per kg body weight (technically 12 g per kg lean body mass), which for me is 787 g carbs.
-It is recommended that ~80% of the carbs consumed should be in liquid complex carb form (for me 629 g carbs). They used Polycose as their liquid maltodrextin. The other 20% should be complex carbs (pasta, bread, rice).
-The carbs should constitute 90% of the diet, and the remainder filled with protein and fat. 1g protein = 4 cals and 1g fat = 9 cals. Thus, roughly 3500 total calories needs to be consumed (3146 of which is from carbs (787x4), 280 cals from protein (70g), and 70 cals of fat (roughly 8g) for me.
-Absolutely no exercise after the carb loading procedure begins.

Does this sound like a good summary to you? What liquid carb source do you use? Do you have a sample of your previously used diet plan?

My workout before the load is a little less extreme. I run a 1 mile warm-up jog, do 10 strides - all out speed - then a cool down jog of half mile.

Also, I only take in 10g of carbs/kg body weight. For me - 840g.

After my run, I immediately start the carb load at my car. I use Malto - you can put it in anything. It is pretty awesome, but you have to consume other carbs or you might experience a sugar crash.

I mix my first "batch" of Malto with Gatorade, which I drink in the parking lot. During the day I'll have a few baked potatoes and some pasta and grilled chicken breast. I'll add butter to the pasta and sour cream on the bakes potato. But mostly I am drinking fluids (mostly water, but anything that you like that has no other calories) with Malto added.

I put the 840g of Malto in a container the day before, and my goal is to have consumed all of it before dinner. My dinner is the uneaten chicken and my last baked potato of the day with plain water (no Malto). Then off to bed.

ETA - You can do a version of this if running a challenge, like the Goofy or Dopey, but it is not as effective. For some reason my muscles simply won't store as much glycogen after a 10k or half marathon as they do if I run a 5k or less the day before. I'm sure that there is a scientific explanation, but I only know that when I ran the Goofy a few years ago I needed more in-race carbs than I typically do during a marathon even though I loaded after running the half.

 

[Pleglech]

I'm really interested in using this method the next time around and honestly a little scared of it. Let me know if I got this correct from reading the original 2002 paper, they make the following recommendations:

-Morning before marathon, warm-up for 5 minutes. Run 150 seconds at 130% VO2max (4:30 minute mile for me), followed by 30 seconds at all out speed. This sounds INTENSE!
-Within 20 minutes of completion of the run start the carb loading protocol.
-10.3 g carbs per kg body weight (technically 12 g per kg lean body mass), which for me is 787 g carbs.
-It is recommended that ~80% of the carbs consumed should be in liquid complex carb form (for me 629 g carbs). They used Polycose as their liquid maltodrextin. The other 20% should be complex carbs (pasta, bread, rice).
-The carbs should constitute 90% of the diet, and the remainder filled with protein and fat. 1g protein = 4 cals and 1g fat = 9 cals. Thus, roughly 3500 total calories needs to be consumed (3146 of which is from carbs (787x4), 280 cals from protein (70g), and 70 cals of fat (roughly 8g) for me.
-Absolutely no exercise after the carb loading procedure begins.

Does this sound like a good summary to you? What liquid carb source do you use? Do you have a sample of your previously used diet plan?

This is more or less what I do (Except that I warm up for about 3 miles instead of 5 minutes, and start eating the second I walk back in the door). Calculating carbs by lean body mass is correct IMO. Anyway, this doesn't leave me feeling bloated like a traditional carb load, and helps me reduce my nutrition needs during the race (I have trouble taking in anything at race effort). Polycose is fine. Or carbo force, or whatever.
That said, I only do this for race efforts. If you're going to fun-run a marathon, there's really no need to carb load.

 

[DopeyBadger]

My workout before the load is a little less extreme.

This is more or less what I do (Except that I warm up for about 3 miles instead of 5 minutes, and start eating the second I walk back in the door). Calculating carbs by lean body mass is correct IMO. Anyway, this doesn't leave me feeling bloated like a traditional carb load, and helps me reduce my nutrition needs during the race (I have trouble taking in anything at race effort). Polycose is fine. Or carbo force, or whatever.
That said, I only do this for race efforts. If you're going to fun-run a marathon, there's really no need to carb load.

Thanks! It's always interesting to hear how others have practically applied training recommendations. What's interesting is I just found a followup scientific article from the same group and it seems to suggest the intense workout is unnecessary for the supra compensation to occur.

"Even without a glycogen-depleting period of exercise, trained athletes can achieve maximal levels of glycogen content in all muscle fibres within 24 h, with no added benefit if the high carbohydrate intake is extended for more days."

I wonder why this hasn't been adopted more by review articles discussing the Western Australia method. I have attached the follow-up article if anyone else is interested in reading it.

 

[IamTrike]

My current knee issue is probably going to keep me from running today... again. I will try a few mile in the morning and see how it feels, and if its good to go Saturday I am overdue a 17-20 miler. I think part of the problem other than the golfing could also be my shoes. I may have pushed them beyond what I thought I could get out of them ~ 365/400 miles. I have a pair of lighter and flater shoes I only run shorter training runs with because I want to use them for the race so I don't want to really put a lot of miles in them other than to make sure I can run 15+ miles with them for the marathon. They are a lot less forgiving on my feet as well. I am going to buy some new shoes tomorrow, but taking them out for a long run on the first run sounds like a very bad idea.... All I know is I am in a very bad mood.

Add me to the knee pain camp. My knee's have been just kind of achy for the last two weeks. There hasn't been much acute pain for me but I really wish it would go away. I hope new shoes resolves it for you.

I've heard anywhere from 300 - 500 miles for shoes, and that gap is so big because of all of the variables from shoe type to individual. I found 350 - 400 is my point these days. Im not big per say @ 6'-5" I am around 210 +/- a few lbs depending on the day. So for a runner I am heavy and I think that's why I don't get to the top end of that range. The obvious answer here is to run more and lose more weight to become faster and get at extra week or two out of my shoes. lol

I'm trying to loose weight too, but mainly because I'm lazy. I figure the less I weigh the less energy I have to expend over the course of training runs and the marathon. I think in my boosts I'm getting 400 ish miles out of them. I have a hard time figuring out when they are done though. I wish they had a gas gauge.

Heart rate...heard that too, you do it just when you wake up, before you move out of bed. The first few times i did it, it freaked me out...I'm down to an average of 45/min and have been around 39 a couple of times too. Although when I run with effort, at 8:00 min/mile I think I average 145, so thats a big swing. I don't think I'm conditioned well yet.

As for the shoes, I'm going past 500 on my past 2 pairs because I am not seeing or feeling any degradation. It could be that I'm also using inserts because a few years ago I think ai had some plantar faciatis and that helped, so I've not taken them out since. And they give extra cushion, so my shoes still feel fine. I don't know.

I think there are a lot of factors including your weight, the shoe last material, the surface you run on, your form etc, that all impact shoe life.

Sorry to hear about the knee!

I will offer up a spot on my fife and drum corps if you're interested!!!!!


..... My doctor has told me no running til I see the cardiologist... That puts me out of running W&D ... But from the back of G, I might be able to walk it ........... :/

I mean, what do they know anyway? All that information they spend years acquiring ......is merely suggestions, right?!?!?!
Where's Barboza? He'll back me up!


*sigh*
Maybe I'll storm the office tomorrow......

So how fast can you walk before it counts as running? could you jog?

 

[Pixie Heart]

@SarahDisney - you are the best!!!

I love them all I wish I was running dopey. Oh well I'll wait for 2018 for that and just be happy with Donald and Pluto this year.

Yeah, me too. I just keep repeating to myself: 2018 is not that far...

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I think there are a lot of factors including your weight, the shoe last material, the surface you run on, your form etc, that all impact shoe life.

This is a good point - I get a lot more mileage out of my trail shoes than my road shoes. In fact, my road shoes rotate to my trail shoes after about 300 miles, and I can generally get at least another 150 miles out of them on trails with no negative effects unless I run really long in them.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Thanks! It's always interesting to hear how others have practically applied training recommendations. What's interesting is I just found a followup scientific article from the same group and it seems to suggest the intense workout is unnecessary for the supra compensation to occur.

"Even without a glycogen-depleting period of exercise, trained athletes can achieve maximal levels of glycogen content in all muscle fibres within 24 h, with no added benefit if the high carbohydrate intake is extended for more days."

I wonder why this hasn't been adopted more by review articles discussing the Western Australia method. I have attached the follow-up article if anyone else is interested in reading it.

I have read the same thing but it has become a part of my race preparation routine, so I keep doing it. But, again, I only do strides and they really don't wipe out my legs.