Marathon Weekend 2016

[kevdad]

Those are actually pretty awesome (I've been seeing them online for a few days), but ... I really wasn't planning to do any shopping. Mostly just browsing (and medal picture taking, of course). Sorry.

I was just kidding, my sarcasm doesn't do well on a message board. Have a great time!!! And as others have stated, pictures of the medals would be fabulous!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I don't see dynamic warm ups mentioned very often but I think they're a great way to avoid injuries. Lunges, squats, high knees, butt kicks, leg swings, etc. do a great job warming up the muscles before a run and only take 5-7 minutes.

Yes - I do dynamic warm-ups before every run, even my easy long runs.

 

[SarahDisney]

I was just kidding, my sarcasm doesn't do well on a message board. Have a great time!!! And as others have stated, pictures of the medals would be fabulous!

I wasn't sure if you were kidding or not - if I had been planning to spend some time shopping, I probably would have asked if you were serious.

Pictures will definitely be coming - hopefully tonight. I'm waiting for my sister to get out of school before I go (in case she wants to come with), so it'll be late, but I'll try to get them up when I get home.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I don't see dynamic warm ups mentioned very often but I think they're a great way to avoid injuries. Lunges, squats, high knees, butt kicks, leg swings, etc. do a great job warming up the muscles before a run and only take 5-7 minutes.

Yes - I do dynamic warm-ups before every run, even my easy long runs.

I am also in this camp. My dynamic warmups last a similar period of time and after running I do more static stretching. From the research I've read, it is best to come up with a single stretching routine before and after and to continue to do that before every run. When a runner does a dramatic change in stretching routine it leads to more injuries. It was an interesting study.

I'm at the point where I could really use an outsiders perspective on my running habits from coaches. So my question is, have any of yall ever been to it and what did you think? If you haven't been, what you think of the idea of a running camp? I know its kinda a nerdy thing, but I am at peace with that.

I have never done a running camp, but have seriously considered it before. The key is to look at a detailed itinerary because you want to make sure you are going to get something out of it that you couldn't elsewhere for a larger chunk of change. I also know that my local hospital has a service where they analyze your running form and then spend a 60 min session with you breaking down the video of you at different speeds. Might see if that's an option as well. The way I see it is, I'm willing to do whatever it takes (within reason) to meet my goals and if that includes flying out to Arizona (McMillan) or Michigan (Hansons) to meet with experts at a running camp then I'm definitely going to do it. So no, you're not crazy.

I think my current knee issue is actually from playing golf.

I am not an injury expert or a doctor so take my view as one runner to another. I was looking at your Garmin profile the other day and noticed your steps per minute was very low (around 150) and your stride length is very high (around 1.5 meters) for what I would consider a pretty quick pace (7:45 min/mile). I also noticed you are quite tall (6'5"). Do you find that your foot is striking beyond your torso? I've read to help prevent injuries in long distance runners the strike of the foot should come down almost directly underneath your shoulders and not much further out (over-striding). The steps per minute being low might be a product of your height, but it might be something to consider trying to take faster shorter steps. Although, I preface this with saying it took me a long process (and a risk of other injuries) to convert my running style from an avg 160 steps per minute to an avg 180-190 steps per minute, but it definitely helped with some minor knee pain I was feeling. My advice would be to wait to adjust something like this until the next down period of training so you're not putting your next race at risk.

 

[PrincessV]

My comment on medals and anticipation was not to be a diss on medals.

Ditto here - I know the vast majority of folks love the bling, and that's great! I just don't have a feeling about medals one way or another: if I get one, hey that's nice! But I'd also keep running Disney's races if there weren't any medals at all.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I also reduced my knee pain when switching to a 180 cadence from 160. It helped me run more efficiently, also. I no longer brake when I run, and I push off with my forefoot with every stride. My coach also helped me eliminate the slight bounce that I had in my stride by increasing my cadence. But, interestingly enough, my stride length did not change. I still have the same stride length. My faster cadence makes me a faster runner.

 

[Kathymford]

So, I tried something new on my short run at the track yesterday. No intervals, just ran as far as I could watching my HR. Trying to keep it below 170 because I notice that's when my breathing gets labored. And guess what? I can run further than I thought. Obviously, it was a tad slower pace, but I also had to hand carry my phone and keys cause I forgot my belt. So I'm left wondering: what is more important to me? Being faster or running for longer stretches.

Also, I don't do any stretching really; before or after. Let me take that back, when my long runs reached around 5 miles and up, I did some. Although all of you are MUCH faster than me. My run is probably your warm up. Ha.

By the way, I think this has been my favorite running thread on the DIS of all time. So much great information and so inspiring.

 

[margitmouse]

So I have a strange question, but hopefully to the running obsessed it isn't really that odd. Over a year ago I started looking into getting an outsiders opinion on my running, including form, past training, how to improve, and why do I continue to deal with injuries at a certain point of training. I cant seem to narrow down why it keeps happening and its very frustrating. I have no doubt that I will recover and run this marathon, but I hate the set backs. I think my current knee issue is actually from playing golf. So back on point, I turned to Google for research and stumbled upon Zapfitness. During the summer they host a series of running camps for different crowds and purposes. One of the camps is a week long marathon course. They have guest speakers and knowledgeable people who can help address many questions. The camp is in North Carolina near Blowing Rock. I passed this year because of the cost. It is reasonable but flights kinda did me in. I'm at the point where I could really use an outsiders perspective on my running habits from coaches. So my question is, have any of yall ever been to it and what did you think? If you haven't been, what you think of the idea of a running camp? I know its kinda a nerdy thing, but I am at peace with that.

So, I think my response is the same as for another post... I don't think this is the place that anyone will talk you out of this! They may have other suggestions, or thoughts, but this is where we come to get support for things like this that we can all relate to.... Whether our goal is improvement, or just to finish, it seems that our goals are all to do what we do -run- and do it better, faster, wholesomely ( now that's a word huh!?!) joyfully, for therapy... The list goes on... But we're here supporting each other...
I am thinking of seeking out a coach for several of the reasons that have been mentioned, especially now that I'm looking to do more distances. There is more I feel I need to understand. With all of the knowledge that you have, I hear you saying the same thing. If the camp is where you seek that knowledge, GO FOR IT!!!
On one condition... You share with us here!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I don't stretch much since my back injury, but I do warm-up and cool down exercises. I have found that I am able to run 5-6 days per week this way without getting heavy legs or muscle pain.

Now, to be fair, I still experience a little of both after really hard runs, but not after most of my runs.

 

[margitmouse]

hey friends!

 

[BigEeyore]

Such great info on this thread! I recently got a new Garmin 920xt and it is giving me all this new info I have no clue what to do with! The info about the cadence is really interesting and it made me look at my recent runs to see what I'm averaging (170) with my stride length around 1 meter.

Those medals are just the motivation I needed! Is it bad that I love the Kids race medal the most?? So now I want to sign my kids up for the kids races

Does anyone here know what times/days the kids races are?

 

[IamTrike]

I have not been to a running camp, but that is because I have been coached at several points in my life. Coaching is really important if you want to achieve personal excellence. If it were me, I would rather pay for a really good (local, so they can actually watch your form) running coach than attend a camp, but someone who has actually attended one might be able to explain their benefits vs a local coach.

Hey were were writing about coaches at the same time.

So ... kinda weird question...
Has anyone been to an expo for a race you're not running? Is it really awkward?
I kinda want to go to the NYC marathon expo just to check it out, but I'm afraid I might feel really out of place because I'm not running. (Plus, I have about a thousand things on my to-do list today ... but I have been known to ignore my to-do list occasionally, so that may not stop me from going)

It's not weird. For most runners there will be people there to support them. I'd say 50% or more people at an expo aren't running. I'm not sure if they still have it but AdTech (an advertising trade show I used to attend) was at Javits the same time as the NY marathon expo. I used to poke my head in because i was there. The NY expo is really neat. I enjoyed it last year. Run Disney was giving out bags at the Chicago Marathon so maybe you can get one there.

I don't see dynamic warm ups mentioned very often but I think they're a great way to avoid injuries. Lunges, squats, high knees, butt kicks, leg swings, etc. do a great job warming up the muscles before a run and only take 5-7 minutes.

Yeah even before that coach had me do it my sisters were encouraging me to do that. I have 2 sisters that are Physical Therapists so they keep me informed of ways to not break myself.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Such great info on this thread! I recently got a new Garmin 920xt and it is giving me all this new info I have no clue what to do with! The info about the cadence is really interesting and it made me look at my recent runs to see what I'm averaging (170) with my stride length around 1 meter.

Those medals are just the motivation I needed! Is it bad that I love the Kids race medal the most?? So now I want to sign my kids up for the kids races

Does anyone here know what times/days the kids races are?

Kids races are Thursday, Friday and Saturday starting at 11:00am sharp at the ESPN track. They have different distances for the age of the kid. I believe each day starts with the 100m up in distance through 400m, then diaper dash, then mickey mile at 12:30 (this is from memory from last year).

Nice watch. I think you'll find the most use out of cadence and the VO2max measurement. I wasn't able to do much with the vertical oscillation or ground contact time, personally. The "race predictor" should be taken with a large grain of salt. From reading the Garmin forums, it appears very few people can actually meet the lofty goals the watch gives. My VO2max (54) gives a marathon race predictor of 3:04 (from memory) which by my calculation is 83% V02max. This is way out of the range of normal for a marathon (60-70% VO2max is normal) and is approaching the highest recorded values of elites (85% VO2max). The 85% VO2max line is close to the point at which breathing becomes labored and out of rhythm, although you can train to eventually run a marathon near these percentages. If you choose to use the VO2max as a fitness tool, make sure your maximum heart rate, resting heart rate, and body weight are kept up to date in your profile as the calculation used by the watch uses these values.

 

[Alicatt]

Kids races are Thursday, Friday and Saturday starting at 11:00am sharp at the ESPN track. They have different distances for the age of the kid. I believe each day starts with the 100m up in distance through 400m, then diaper dash, then mickey mile at 12:30 (this is from memory from last year).

Thank you. You have any memory of how long the races take? I have a kid each in the 200M and the 400M and I'm trying to plan lunch for the family Also do buses go from ESPN to the parks or do you need to detour to a resort?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thank you. You have any memory of how long the races take? I have a kid each in the 200M and the 400M and I'm trying to plan lunch for the family Also do buses go from ESPN to the parks or do you need to detour to a resort?

Race Program from last year has this:

10:00 a.m. New Balance Track and Field opens, warm up begins

10:50 a.m. 100m Dash participants (1-3 years old) meet at green start flags

11:00 a.m. 100m Dash Starts

11:10 a.m. 200m Dash participants (4-6 years old) meet at yellow start flags

11:20 a.m. 200m Dash Starts

11:30 a.m. 400m Dash participants (7-8 years old) meet at blue start flags

11:40 a.m. 400m Dash Starts

12:00 p.m. Diaper Dash Starts

12:15 p.m. Mickey Mile participants (13 & under) meet at white start flags

12:30 p.m. Mickey Mile Starts

The buses at ESPN only went to the resorts. So we had to hop a bus to our hotel and then to the park. They don't verify which resort you stay at so you could be strategic about which resort bus you get on (say Contemporary for Magic Kingdom, or Boardwalk for Epcot, etc.) if you wanted to go directly to the park.

 

[DopeyBadger]

So, I tried something new on my short run at the track yesterday. No intervals, just ran as far as I could watching my HR. Trying to keep it below 170 because I notice that's when my breathing gets labored. And guess what? I can run further than I thought. Obviously, it was a tad slower pace, but I also had to hand carry my phone and keys cause I forgot my belt. So I'm left wondering: what is more important to me? Being faster or running for longer stretches.

Funny thing is you are doing what is called Stamina Training (or the Ventilatory Threshold) and over time this type of workout, if done well, will make you faster AND be able to run further. SO, you don't have to choose! Just keep it in moderation because these can be tough workouts. This type of workout helps with running efficiency as well. Try to memorize what your body is doing to be able to run this way. Tight movements that all have a purpose. Now use those movements in all of your runs and you'll find running becomes easier. I also try to forcefully breath harder during even my easiest runs to train my body the rhythm I want to keep my breathing at (right step breath in, left step breath in, right and left step breath out, a 1 in + 1 in + 2 out method).

Good article by McMillan - https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/3

 

[DopeyBadger]

It is definitely possible that your Garmin VO2max is off. Check your Garmin profile's resting heart rate and max heart rate. It is my understanding these play a major role in the calculation of the Garmin's VO2max.

Although, based on your stats that I posted I wouldn't feel that the 3:25-3:30 is unreasonable at all. The faster finishing times in a marathon just means you need to be able to tap into a higher %V02max, which is completely possible. A 3:25-3:30 is starting to move away from a normal marathon finishing time and moving into the sub-elite, and thus a 76.5% VO2max isn't worrisome to me.

Did you change any profile information (heart rate) after reviewing what was in the Garmin because you thought your VO2max seemed lower than your capability?

So I've been working on some new calculations and came up with something for you. If appropriately trained for the time, a full carb loading plan (which I found to be between 7-10g carbs per kg body weight in the 3 days prior to the marathon (although I think it could probably be done in one, if you follow the Western Australia method)) means you need to consume 668.2g carbs per day (2672.7 kcals of carbs). Make sure though that your total calorie consumption doesn't surpass your normal calorie consumption. This would maximally load your glycogen stores to 1.9x normal and would give you an estimated finish time of 3:12:15. This means that a carb loading plan like this would be necessary to reach a 3:12:15, but not sufficient by itself to do it (because the training needs to be done to run this fast this far beyond not hitting the wall). Without a carb loading plan, it would take 106.4 g carbs per hour (to finish in 3:12:15) during the run which is beyond the human limit. Anything beyond 3:12:15 at your current fitness level would require a full carb loading plan and nutrition during the race (like our BQ of 3:00:00 flat, let alone this is at 86% VO2max). Let me know if this helps or if you have any questions.

I also came up with a "estimated mileage at which I would hit the wall" calculator if anyone else is interested. I would need to know your body weight, VO2max, and your planned nutrition plan during the race.

 

[MeridaAndAngus]

Off topic - has anyone read Matt Fitzgerald's books & found them useful for figuring out a balanced nutrition plan to use for your training? I heard him on a podcast a while ago and then stumbled across his books "Racing Weight" & "New Rules of Marathon & Half Marathon Nutrition." I'm interested in downloading one of these books to read on my plane ride this weekend.

What I'm looking for is some additional education on nutrition for training & running. I'm on what I call a fitness journey, and I think I need some additional information on how to best adjust my nutrition to fuel in a healthy way while amping up marathon training--other than drinking lots of beer and eating lots of cupcakes, obviously

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I use the Australian method - for me that means 3500 calories worth of carbs the day before the race. That is more than my normal caloric intake on a day without exercise (by about 1000 calories), but it works. The key is to do some short but very vigorous running just before you start your carb load. For some reason this helps your legs take on more glycogen than they do under normal circumstances.

Also, remember - complex carbs only. No juice and no products made with corn syrup. Those carbs don't convert properly.

 

[Kathymford]

Funny thing is you are doing what is called Stamina Training (or the Ventilatory Threshold) and over time this type of workout, if done well, will make you faster AND be able to run further. SO, you don't have to choose! Just keep it in moderation because these can be tough workouts. This type of workout helps with running efficiency as well. Try to memorize what your body is doing to be able to run this way. Tight movements that all have a purpose. Now use those movements in all of your runs and you'll find running becomes easier. I also try to forcefully breath harder during even my easiest runs to train my body the rhythm I want to keep my breathing at (right step breath in, left step breath in, right and left step breath out, a 1 in + 1 in + 2 out method).

Good article by McMillan - https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/3

Thank you! It does make sense that if I stick to something like this, I should improve one way or another. I was just thinking about something someone in this thread said (a while ago, I don't recall who), that mentioned that when you tell yourself how far you're going to run, it seems that's all you're going to do. Or something like that. Obviously not a direct quote. lol. And I was thinking that in terms of my 1:1 intervals. Because when I'm doing them regularly, I can always tell when my minute is up. And I just don't seem to be improving. So I thought I would try something new.