Marathon Weekend 2016

[PrincessV]

I forgot to mention one really important article of clothing for really cold days - a neck gaiter. Check them out if you have never worn one.

Totally agree!!! As a thin-blooded Floridian with cold- and exercise-induced asthma, a neck gaiter absolutely saved me during this year's cold races. But I grew up in NY and skied a lot and though I refused to wear a jacket or snow pants (because it was soooo "cool" to wear jeans and a sweater in a wind chill of -10 lol!), a neck gaiter at least kept my neck warm, and pulled up over my mouth and nose kept the cold air from damaging my airways so much. I'm a big fan!

As for diet changes, etc., what have y'all done in previous years leading up to run weekends like this?

I ditch any alcohol for 3-4 weeks prior to a long distance race. I don't really know that it affects my performance, but even one beer tends to mess with my sleep, and sleep is the #1 thing I can't skimp on pre-race. In the day or two before a race or long run, I stay away from anything known to be hard for me to digest: red meat, leafy greens, beans. I used to include fatty foods in that list, but have recently discovered my body performs so much better with some easy-to-digest fats the day or two before - eggs cooked in olive oil, baked potato with cheese and avocado, warm naan bread with butter, etc. Not so much a change in diet as a removal of items known to cause issues.

 

[Neoflynn]

@roxymama I LOVED this idea! hahahaha
But I'm afraid I have the same airplane problem.

I could be wrong but I believe there may be somewhere at the expo to make signs or you could get someone here that is either driving or lives there to bring some extra supplies for you and meet up with them before the races

Wow, so much information in this thread!!

not only is it full of info but also some of the nicest people you'll ever run into I swear so many people here have helped ease my mind about a lot of things that I'm no longer completely terrified of attempting the marathon....only SLIGHTLY terrified LOL

For those of you curious about course change because of the Speedway, here's a picture of where the Speedway used to be as of today ...

Wow they didn't waste anytime knocking it down did they? I'm really hoping they reroute a bit and do something more exciting than running thru a parking lot, I imagine they could do some minor alterations all along the course that would eventually add up to the needed distance but who knows...

 

[AThrillingChase]

Thank you for this, I often struggle mentally on my long runs and its even happened during some of my Half Marathons where Ill hit like mile 5 and be like "oh jeez I'm not even half how am I gonna finish this" but the whole thing about breaking it up has really helped me, Ill do that with my runs now where say its and 8 miler Ill break into quarters and be like "just gotta run the first 2 miles, that's easy" "Ok now 2 more, see now your halfway" so on and so forth, so having this breakdown really helps for landmarks. I also so a great quote for the marathon that said "Don't think of it as running 26 miles, but think of it as running just 1 mile, 26 times" I think this will become my mantra for the race

I apologize to those who have heard me complaining on the W&D board about his already lol - but whenever you are struggling just think it could be worse, there could be a sudden freak storm with a tornado a few blocks away, or sudden hail in early October. Needless to say, these are true stories and sum up my last couple long runs. But, even the longest runs no longer seem daunting now!

Also, I tend to break mine up by running a route where when I get halfway through mileage - this weekend I have 12 planned, so when I hit 6 I think to myself "I am done, all I have to do now is go home!" Funny, but it really does make me feel like my run is done and accomplished!

Wow, so much information in this thread!! I am looking to hopefully get signed up for the 2017 Half, though with how quickly it sells out, I am starting to get worried now.

I might have to read through this thread some more, cuz I only read 2 pages so far and WOW! so much info!!

I signed up for half only all rushed and panicked this year, but it took awhile to actually sell out. So don't worry about that one!

 

[rteetz]

For those of you curious about course change because of the Speedway, here's a picture of where the Speedway used to be as of today ...
View attachment 130301

Should start paving relatively quickly.

 

[rteetz]

It will never be ready in time!!! All joking aside, I think if the plan is to turn it into a parking lot, we will all get the joy of running a mile in a parking lot. Based on my limited construction experience in civil work, I think it is possible it will be ready. Its going to be very interesting to see what they decide to do. One way or another, they would still have to measure the course if it goes through the new parking lot or takes an alternate route.

Its very possible. I think its almost certain it will be ready by January. I think they want it ready for the holidays.

 

[SarahDisney]

Also, I tend to break mine up by running a route where when I get halfway through mileage - this weekend I have 12 planned, so when I hit 6 I think to myself "I am done, all I have to do now is go home!" Funny, but it really does make me feel like my run is done and accomplished!

I love this! It's always nice to think that you're on your way home!

 

[AThrillingChase]

not only is it full of info but also some of the nicest people you'll ever run into I swear so many people here have helped ease my mind about a lot of things that I'm no longer completely terrified of attempting the marathon....only SLIGHTLY terrified LOL

No joke - I always said I never would do a full and just stick to half distance. But after this board I am almost considering it! My problem is I hate long training runs. I listen to podcasts and all that jazz, but I just get bored. So, I am thinking I may just do one full to accomplish it in 2017. To be fair, I will probably not push time too much and would do the least mileage in training runs needed to finish upright. For a half I know if I hit 9 miles I will at least finish fine. Does anyone have a thought on what the equivalent distance would be for a full?

 

[SeattleSuz]

I think I will keep stalking this thread to read tips and ideas for training, as I have only ever done 5Ks and my biggest achievement last summer was actually running (or as my hubby says, "a fast trot") a 5K all the way through.

 

[Neoflynn]

Does anyone have a thought on what the equivalent distance would be for a full?

I have heard 20 miles tossed around as a good max distance pre marathon, I know my plan tops out at 22

 

[LSUlakes]

No joke - I always said I never would do a full and just stick to half distance. But after this board I am almost considering it! My problem is I hate long training runs. I listen to podcasts and all that jazz, but I just get bored. So, I am thinking I may just do one full to accomplish it in 2017. To be fair, I will probably not push time too much and would do the least mileage in training runs needed to finish upright. For a half I know if I hit 9 miles I will at least finish fine. Does anyone have a thought on what the equivalent distance would be for a full?

20, at least once. I think the Hanson plan goes to 18, but your midweek mileage is higher so there is a reason for that. Anyone using the Hanson plan can confirm that? Good luck!

 

[Keels]

Should start paving relatively quickly.

Ehhhh ... I don't know. I didn't really get many good photos, but that's just the beginning part. The rest of it is either a big hole OR a big pile of rubble and they're are tons of backhoes and diggers out there.

I do imagine it will be a parking lot, or the beginnings of a significantly-sized parking structure (my dad was the GC that built the huge parking structures at US/IOA years ago and he said that the excavation going on there is similar to what was done back then.

I'm back out there on Friday, so I'll take more (and better) pictures.

 

[rteetz]

Ehhhh ... I don't know. I didn't really get many good photos, but that's just the beginning part. The rest of it is either a big hole OR a big pile of rubble and they're are tons of backhoes and diggers out there.

I do imagine it will be a parking lot, or the beginnings of a significantly-sized parking structure (my dad was the GC that built the huge parking structures at US/IOA years ago and he said that the excavation going on there is similar to what was done back then.

I'm back out there on Friday, so I'll take more (and better) pictures.

From what I have heard paving of the expanded parking lot will start relatively soon. The permits were filed months ago. Disney doesn't want to build a parking structure at MK but will soon be doing so at DHS...

 

[Keels]

From what I have heard paving of the expanded parking lot will start relatively soon. The permits were filed months ago. Disney doesn't want to build a parking structure at MK but will soon be doing so at DHS...

You can see where that is, the extended area to be paved. It leads up to this area and ends almost around the old Hess Station. I've got photos of that on my phone that I can post later. The picture I took was exiting the Heroes parking lot. The big hole is right by the entrance to the MK parking lot. You can't really see it because of the old blue barriers from the Speedway still being up, but you definitely can see it from the back as you exit.

Regardless. The way Disney moves, yes, part of that will be a parking lot expansion ready by the holidays.

 

[DopeyBadger]

20, at least once. I think the Hanson plan goes to 18, but your midweek mileage is higher so there is a reason for that. Anyone using the Hanson plan can confirm that? Good luck!

I run using Hanson's and the max weekend mileage is 16 in the Beginner plan (peaks at 56 miles), but is dictated by the amount of miles you run in a week. The longest mileage day in a week shouldn't exceed 25-30% of the total of the week's mileage. If you run 20 miles in a week, your longest run is no more than 6 miles. If you run 80 miles in a week, your longest run is no more than 24 miles. The other caveat is that Hanson's prefers the time during running not exceed certain parameters (long run 2.5 hours, although 3 hours can happen). Thus, they wouldn't recommend a slower runner to run the 80 mile per week plan because many of the prescribed runs couldn't be completed in the allotted times. That's why you see elite runners putting in 120 miles per week. Because they are so freaking fast it takes them 20 miles at a 6 min mile to run for 120 minutes, whereas a different runner at a 12 min mile would only need to cover 10 miles to get the equivalent workout.

 

[Neoflynn]

I run using Hanson's and the max weekend mileage is 16 in the Beginner plan (peaks at 56 miles), but is dictated by the amount of miles you run in a week. The longest mileage day in a week shouldn't exceed 25-30% of the total of the week's mileage. If you run 20 miles in a week, your longest run is no more than 6 miles. If you run 80 miles in a week, your longest run is no more than 24 miles. The other caveat is that Hanson's prefers the time during running not exceed certain parameters (long run 2.5 hours, although 3 hours can happen). Thus, they wouldn't recommend a slower runner to run the 80 mile per week plan because many of the prescribed runs couldn't be completed in the allotted times. That's why you see elite runners putting in 120 miles per week. Because they are so freaking fast it takes them 20 miles at a 6 min mile to run for 120 minutes, whereas a different runner at a 12 min mile would only need to cover 10 miles to get the equivalent workout.

I am a bit confused on the time constraint, if you are a slower paced runner then you are going to have to get used to running longer to actually complete the marathon, so wouldn't it be necessary to train for running longer then 2.5 hours since you wouldn't be able to complete the marathon in that time?
maybe I just don't understand the inner workings of the Hanson method so forgive me if that's the case

 

[DopeyBadger]

31 yo male, 210 lbs, 3:23:15, VO2max = 53 (per garmin)

According to the calculator a VO2max of 53 is equivalent to a vVO2 of 10.14mph or a 5:55 pace. This means a desired goal of a 3:23 marathon pace (7:44) is 76.5% of your VO2max. Most marathon runners are somewhere between 60%-70% (for you 9:51 min/mile to 8:27 min/mile) but elite runners can take the percentage as high as 85% (for you 80% is 7:24min/mile and 85% is 6:58min/mile). So a 3:23 pace is aggressive for your current VO2max value. However, the faster you get the closer you get to the elite levels of %VO2max necessary to reach certain goals.

Over the entirety of the marathon you will burn an estimated 4027.7 kcals. Given your pace is 76.5% VO2max, it is estimated that 2878.2 kcals of the 4027.7 total calories burned will come from glucose. Assuming an average male leg muscle mass of 20.0kg (21% of your body weight), you have 1603.6 calories of glucose stored in your leg muscles. This means without tapping into any other source you will have a deficit of 1274.6 calories of glucose. The average person can take an additional 100 kcals of glucose from the liver without putting the body in danger, thus your final deficit total is 1174.6 calories.

This means that either through a carb loading schedule prior to the race, or a nutrition plan during the race you need to consume an extra 1174.6 calories to complete the marathon without hitting the wall at the pace you desire (3:23 marathon) given your current fitness level. This breaks down to 347.5 calories per hour (or 86.9g of carbs per hour (293.6 g carbs in total)) if you decided to only use a nutrition plan during the race. To properly absorb 86.9 g of carbs per hour you would need to consume 43.5 ounces of water per hour (in ideal environmental conditions). This is very close to the human carb absorption limit of 90 g per hour. This means it is almost an absolute must that you have to carb load, and carb load well to meet your goal time without bonking. I don't have a conversion of total carbs consumed to storage ability but I have to imagine it isn't 100% which means over the 3 day carb loading period you need to consume at least an excess of 293.6 carbs.

You would also be a good candidate for attempting to increase your bodies storage capacity. This is done with 1) not taking any nutrition on any run less than 90 minutes, 2) any run longer than 90 min try to find your limit for on the run carb consumption (or water consumption limit), 3) Eat 1/2 your body weight in pounds in grams of carbs (for you 105g carbs) within 15 minutes of coming home from any run longer than 120 minutes 4) Lastly, look into depletion training (Training with no nutrition before running or during running on runs lasting around 120 minutes). Be careful with depletion training, as it should be done no more than once every three weeks, and shouldn't be done within 8-10 weeks of race day. Also, take emergency nutrition with you as these types of runs can be risky under bad conditions.

Best of Luck and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[SeattleSuz]

Are there training apps for this? I was looking at some different ones and it shows starting off running 3 miles a day and ramping up from there...

 

[LSUlakes]

According to the calculator a VO2max of 53 is equivalent to a vVO2 of 10.14mph or a 5:55 pace. This means a desired goal of a 3:23 marathon pace (7:44) is 76.5% of your VO2max. Most marathon runners are somewhere between 60%-70% (for you 9:51 min/mile to 8:27 min/mile) but elite runners can take the percentage as high as 85% (for you 80% is 7:24min/mile and 85% is 6:58min/mile). So a 3:23 pace is aggressive for your current VO2max value. However, the faster you get the closer you get to the elite levels of %VO2max necessary to reach certain goals.

Over the entirety of the marathon you will burn an estimated 4027.7 kcals. Given your pace is 76.5% VO2max, it is estimated that 2878.2 kcals of the 4027.7 total calories burned will come from glucose. Assuming an average male leg muscle mass of 20.0kg (21% of your body weight), you have 1603.6 calories of glucose stored in your leg muscles. This means without tapping into any other source you will have a deficit of 1274.6 calories of glucose. The average person can take an additional 100 kcals of glucose from the liver without putting the body in danger, thus your final deficit total is 1174.6 calories.

This means that either through a carb loading schedule prior to the race, or a nutrition plan during the race you need to consume an extra 1174.6 calories to complete the marathon without hitting the wall at the pace you desire (3:23 marathon) given your current fitness level. This breaks down to 347.5 calories per hour (or 86.9g of carbs per hour (293.6 g carbs in total)) if you decided to only use a nutrition plan during the race. To properly absorb 86.9 g of carbs per hour you would need to consume 43.5 ounces of water per hour (in ideal environmental conditions). This is very close to the human carb absorption limit of 90 g per hour. This means it is almost an absolute must that you have to carb load, and carb load well to meet your goal time without bonking. I don't have a conversion of total carbs consumed to storage ability but I have to imagine it isn't 100% which means over the 3 day carb loading period you need to consume at least an excess of 293.6 carbs.

You would also be a good candidate for attempting to increase your bodies storage capacity. This is done with 1) not taking any nutrition on any run less than 90 minutes, 2) any run longer than 90 min try to find your limit for on the run carb consumption (or water consumption limit), 3) Eat 1/2 your body weight in pounds in grams of carbs (for you 105g carbs) within 15 minutes of coming home from any run longer than 120 minutes 4) Lastly, look into depletion training (Training with no nutrition before running or during running on runs lasting around 120 minutes). Be careful with depletion training, as it should be done no more than once every three weeks, and shouldn't be done within 8-10 weeks of race day. Also, take emergency nutrition with you as these types of runs can be risky under bad conditions.

Best of Luck and let me know if you have any questions.

After reading this, I cant but help think that the Garmins VO2max has to be off. A 8:30 mile is on the high end of my GA pace and for the most part is a very comfortable pace. I find the statements about depletion training. I rarely use any supplements on runs under 2 hours for both races and training runs. So for training runs that is usually around 14 miles and below. I guess based on this info, it would seem reaching my goal would be a bit unrealistic. I just cant help but think the data I provided you with must be inaccurate. Based on my half over the weekend and which calculator you use my projections range in the 3:25 - 3:30 range. Any thoughts on using the data from Garmin VO2max predictor may by way off?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I am a bit confused on the time constraint, if you are a slower paced runner then you are going to have to get used to running longer to actually complete the marathon, so wouldn't it be necessary to train for running longer then 2.5 hours since you wouldn't be able to complete the marathon in that time?
maybe I just don't understand the inner workings of the Hanson method so forgive me if that's the case

Here is my source for the information.

https://hansonscoachingservices.com/hansons-marathon-method-the-16-miler/

And the book which is a great resource.

The debate is definitely out there. On one side, there are some who state that mentally it is necessary for some to complete the 20+ mile run to have the confidence of going the distance (or length of time). I completely understand this point. In addition, its been argued that you need to train your body to be able to withstand a super long run (like 5.5-6 hours). The other side of the debate are those basing it on what starts to happen to the body after a sustained marathon training pace is taken beyond 3 hours. It takes longer to recover from runs longer than 3 hours, which carries over into the rest of the week's training. Since the debate is still ongoing, I can't give you a clear answer as to which is the better training methodology. If anyone else has any other input to add it would be greatly appreciated. Hope this helps.

 

[DopeyBadger]

After reading this, I cant but help think that the Garmins VO2max has to be off. A 8:30 mile is on the high end of my GA pace and for the most part is a very comfortable pace. I find the statements about depletion training. I rarely use any supplements on runs under 2 hours for both races and training runs. So for training runs that is usually around 14 miles and below. I guess based on this info, it would seem reaching my goal would be a bit unrealistic. I just cant help but think the data I provided you with must be inaccurate. Based on my half over the weekend and which calculator you use my projections range in the 3:25 - 3:30 range. Any thoughts on using the data from Garmin VO2max predictor may by way off?

It is definitely possible that your Garmin VO2max is off. Check your Garmin profile's resting heart rate and max heart rate. It is my understanding these play a major role in the calculation of the Garmin's VO2max.

Although, based on your stats that I posted I wouldn't feel that the 3:25-3:30 is unreasonable at all. The faster finishing times in a marathon just means you need to be able to tap into a higher %V02max, which is completely possible. A 3:25-3:30 is starting to move away from a normal marathon finishing time and moving into the sub-elite, and thus a 76.5% VO2max isn't worrisome to me.